Niacin/Niacinamide's Effect On Blood Sugar?

Queequeg

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@Queequeg It would be better to read the actual study (link) and quote from the study. As far as I can see, the researchers did not use the terms interchangeably.

With all due respect, I have to disagree with your assessment; ironic that you actually quoted my excerpt from one of the studies where the two terms niacin and niacinamide are in fact used interchangeably. :)

"The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide" Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

But not to lose the forest for the trees, my point was that these studies do in fact concern niacin as niacinamide and not niacin as nicotinic acid as someone else had mentioned.
 
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Mittir

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@Mittir what was your main reason for supplementing with niacinamide? Was it to expedite PUFA deleting and improve liver function?
I wanted to get the benefit of lowered PUFA release. Since, stored
PUFA is the root cause of all sorts of health issues and limiting
it's release improves all the cell function and organs. Liver's improvement
was more pronounced. But, inhibiting free fatty acid release with niacinamide or
aspirin slows down PUFA depletion. It may take longer time to deplete most of the
stored PUFA.
 

Giraffe

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With all due respect, I have to disagree with your assessment; ironic that you actually quoted my excerpt from one of the studies where the two terms niacin and niacinamide are in fact used interchangeably. :)
Your excerpt was not from a study, but from an article on the website of a nutritionist that discussed a study.
 

tara

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"The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide"
300mg is not a low dose for everyone. I use niacinamide every day, but not that much. Peat has suggested 50-100mg with meals.
 

Queequeg

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@Giraffe "It would be better to read the actual study (link) and quote from the study. As far as I can see, the researchers did not use the terms interchangeably."

Is a peer reviewed study really necessary to show that scientists often interchange the terms Niacin for Niacinamide? My intention was to explain why some may have thought the studies I was concerned about were using Niacin and not Niacinamide; therefore we could all relax. Unfortunately for us this is not the case.

But to your point, here is another example of this convention; this time from pubmed.
Chronic niacin overload may be involved in the increased prevalence of obesity in US children. - PubMed - NCBI
"The appetite-stimulating effect of nicotinamide appears to involve oxidative stress. Excess niacin consumption may be a major factor in the increased obesity prevalence in US children."
 
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Giraffe

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@Queequeg, there are only trace amounts of niacinamide in (real) food, and as far as I know, what you find in fortified food in the US is plain niacin (nicotinic acid). So when someone talks about intake from food it is quite correct to say "niacin". The studies I have seen on supplemental (plain) niacin or niacinamide are quite clear about which form was used.

"The appetite-stimulating effect of nicotinamide appears to involve oxidative stress [refers to supplemented niacinamide used in oral glucose tolerance test]. Excess niacin consumption may be a major factor in the increased obesity prevalence in US children [refers to food intake]."
 

Queequeg

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@Giraffe actually both nicotinic acid and nicotinamide can be used for food enrichment. https://www.sustainweb.org/realbread/flour_fortification/. That would explain why the Chinese study used Nicotinamide to investigate the effects of what it refers to as excess "Niacin" consumption. But I would suggest we agree to disagree.

To make things a little more clear for us all I am posting in one spot all the studies I've found that suggest a link between Niacinamide and diabetes.
Chronic niacin overload may be involved in the increased prevalence of obesity in US children
Nicotinamide overload may play a role in the development of type 2 diabetes. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotinamide's effects on glucose metabolism in subjects at risk for IDDM. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotinamide supplementation induces detrimental metabolic and epigenetic changes in developing rats. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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StrongMom

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How are you currently testing and measuring your blood sugar levels?With a device or just a self judgement?

I have been taking high doses of niacinimide to aid digestion, 2-3g daily, and notice that it makes me feel drowsy and listless, like i dont care much about anything.

What kind of digestion issues do you have? Are you really benefiting from niacinamide? I have severe reflux. I am thinking of experimenting with high doses.
 

Queequeg

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Test subjects with perfect liver glycogen storage will react differently than a person who is PUFA saturated hypo-everything and cannot go 2hrs without eating.
Well that counts me out. Too many years of liver abuse and growing up on margarine.

I remember someone posted a similar Chinese study that found Niacinamide
increasing serotonin when given after over night fasting.
That was obviously a stress response. In other studies they did not find
niacinamide increasing serotonin. It shows that Niacinamide acts differently
when given in a fasting state than with adequate nutrients.

The study is very strange. They got the definition of insulin resistance wrong.
In insulin resistance blood sugar is high with high insulin level. This study
clearly shows higher insulin lowered blood glucose level significantly
more than control. So, insulin was doing it's job. It is simply a higher
insulin response in niacinamide group. It is more like eating just sugar
vs sugar with fat. Fat would cause a much slower rise in blood sugar and
lower level of insulin release. Niacinamide quickly increases NAD concentration,
(which increases energy production ) and lowers free fatty acids in blood, which
increases sugar's metabolism but also decreases energy supply. After over night
fasting one is already in low energy state with depleted liver glycogen.
Lowering one of the energy source fat and increasing energy production
can lead to low blood sugar and stress response. Higher hydrogen peroxide
is probably a result of high insulin and or extra energy production.
They should have measured serum FFA, Co2, lactic acid and some
measurement of energy production. Diabetes is all about energy production.

RP mentioned that NAD decreases with age and causes diabetes and ageing
He cited study that showed increasing NAD as anti-ageing strategy.
There are studies that showed increased NAD reversing diabetes in mice.
A long term or at least few weeks study measuring all the major
indicator of metabolism would be more informative than this kind
of one dose study.

Interesting point about the fasted states being a possible variable and also the NAD connection. But to me the fact that the insulin response was more than double the control is somewhat surprising.
Any thoughts on these two:
Nicotinamide's effects on glucose metabolism in subjects at risk for IDDM. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotinamide supplementation induces detrimental metabolic and epigenetic changes in developing rats. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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Queequeg

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300mg is not a low dose for everyone. I use niacinamide every day, but not that much. Peat has suggested 50-100mg with meals.

Good point. On the other hand a lot of people here are taking much more than 300 mg.
 
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Mittir

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This is a well constructed study measuring relevant markers.
They gave a niacin derivative, which lowers Free fatty acids
just like niacinamide, the night before. It appears they have a better
understanding how body works. Graph of glucose tolerance test
show both glucose and insulin level were lower than control.

Overnight Lowering of Free Fatty Acids Wi t h Acipimox Improves Insulin Resistance and
Glucose Tolerance in Obese Diabetic and Nondiabetic Subjects
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/48/9/1836.full.pdf

Abstract:
Obesity is commonly associated with elevated plasma free fatty acid (FFA) levels, as well as with insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia, two important cardiovascular risk factors. What causes insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia in obesity remains uncertain. Here, we have tested the hypothesis that FFAs are the link between obesity and insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia and that, therefore, lowering of chronically elevated plasma FFA levels would improve insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia and glucose tolerance in obese nondiabetic and diabetic subjects. Acipimox (250 mg), a long-acting antilipolytic drug, or placebo was given overnight (at 7:00 P.M., 1:00 A.M., 7:00 A.M.) to 9 lean control subjects, 13 obese nondiabetic subjects, 10 obese subjects with impaired glucose tolerance, and 11 patients with type 2 diabetes. Euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamps and oral glucose tolerance tests (75 g ) were performed on separate mornings after overnight Acipimox or placebo treatment. In the three obese study groups, Acipimox lowered fasting levels of plasma F FAs (by 60–70%) and plasma insulin (by ~50%). Insulin-stimulated glucose uptake during euglycemichyperinsulinemic clamping was more than twofold higher after Acipimox than after placebo. Areas under the glucose and insulin curves during oral glucose tolerance testing were both ~30% lower after Acipimox administration than after placebo. We conclude that lowering of elevated plasma FFA levels can reduce insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia and improve oral glucose tolerance in lean and obese nondiabetic subjects and in obese patients with type 2 diabetes. D i a b e t e s 48:1836–1841, 1999
 

Giraffe

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Study 1: Oral glucose tolerance test after one-time dose. See mittir's posts.
Study 2: In humans the plasma level of niacinamide derivatives was higher after niacinamide administration. (!?) Rats received insane doses during 24 hour fast.
Study 3: Very small study, short duration, high doses (2 g/day). Full text behind paywall. I have not found yet anything about safety of niacinamide. Peat said in one interview that it is probably safe up to 1,000 mg, but he usually recommends smaller doses than that. I don't know why they so often use such high doses for prevention of type 1 diabetes, while small doses seem effective.
Study 4: Rats received insane doses.
 

yomama

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There is an article about nicotinamide (pubmed link is A review of nicotinamide: treatment of skin diseases and potential side effects. - PubMed - NCBI) from which I extracted the following:

"Insulin sensitivity and diabetes
Overloading rats with cumulative doses of nicotinamide or N-methyl-nicotinamide induced acute insulin
resistance.1 This was a relatively small study, however, and effects may not be the same in humans. In one of
the largest double blind, placebo controlled human trials of nondiabetics with relatives with islet cell antibodies,
there was no difference in incidence of diabetes in the treatment and placebo group when 1.2 g/m2 of

nicotinamide was given daily for 5 years.(31) However, a study of children given 1.2 g/m2 nicotinamide per
day over an average follow up period of 7.1 years found there was a statistically very significant reduction
in the incidence of diabetes.32 Development of diabetes in those treated with nicotinamide was only 41%
that of the group not treated with nicotinamide. This shows that nicotinamide may in fact be protective

against the development of diabetes.(32)"

Notes 31 and 32 are:

31) Gale EA, Bigley PJ, Emett CL et al. European Nicotinamide Intervention Trial (ENDIT) Group. European Nicotinamide
Diabetes Intervention Trial (ENDIT): a randomised controlled trial of intervention before the onset of type 1 diabetes.
Lancet 2004; 363: 925–31.

32) Elliott RB, Pilcher CC, Fergusson DM et al. A population based strategy to prevent insulin-dependent diabetes
using nicotinamide. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 1996; 9: 501–9.
 

Queequeg

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There is an article about nicotinamide (pubmed link is A review of nicotinamide: treatment of skin diseases and potential side effects. - PubMed - NCBI) from which I extracted the following:

"Insulin sensitivity and diabetes
Overloading rats with cumulative doses of nicotinamide or N-methyl-nicotinamide induced acute insulin
resistance.1 This was a relatively small study, however, and effects may not be the same in humans. In one of
the largest double blind, placebo controlled human trials of nondiabetics with relatives with islet cell antibodies,
there was no difference in incidence of diabetes in the treatment and placebo group when 1.2 g/m2 of

nicotinamide was given daily for 5 years.(31) However, a study of children given 1.2 g/m2 nicotinamide per
day over an average follow up period of 7.1 years found there was a statistically very significant reduction
in the incidence of diabetes.32 Development of diabetes in those treated with nicotinamide was only 41%
that of the group not treated with nicotinamide. This shows that nicotinamide may in fact be protective

against the development of diabetes.(32)"

Notes 31 and 32 are:

31) Gale EA, Bigley PJ, Emett CL et al. European Nicotinamide Intervention Trial (ENDIT) Group. European Nicotinamide
Diabetes Intervention Trial (ENDIT): a randomised controlled trial of intervention before the onset of type 1 diabetes.
Lancet 2004; 363: 925–31.

32) Elliott RB, Pilcher CC, Fergusson DM et al. A population based strategy to prevent insulin-dependent diabetes
using nicotinamide. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 1996; 9: 501–9.

At first I was really excited to see this research but then I realized that the studies were looking at Type 1 diabetes. The question then is how well these positive results transfer to the prevention of Type 2 diabetes; which I would think is more of a concern.

@Giraffe I agree that the studies weren't ideal or conclusive but I think they are still useful to know and may give some pause to those taking greater than the RP recommended dosage.
 
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So theres no final veredict on actual niacinamide effect on blood sugar? I got confused after reading this thread...
 

tara

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@Giraffe I agree that the studies weren't ideal or conclusive but I think they are still useful to know and may give some pause to those taking greater than the RP recommended dosage.
I agree that the effects of high doses, especially long term, could give pause. Especially while also fasting, which could be expected to potentially have quite different effects than than Peat's recommended use with meals.

Limiting lipolysis with high-dose niacinamide when blood sugar and glycogen stores are low from fasting could be expected to cause (dis?)stress that would not occur with small doses used when there is abundant blood sugar available. If chronic, maybe that kind of stress could contribute to metabolic issues long term.
So there's no final veredict on actual niacinamide effect on blood sugar? I got confused after reading this thread...
My personal take is:
It's generally not the job of science to give final verdicts. But there seems to be reason to be cautious about taking grams of niacinamide while fasting. None of the studies quoted seem to show a problem with small doses with meals, and since I seem to function better if I include them, I'll probably continue for a while yet.

.
 
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My personal take is:
It's generally not the job of science to give final verdicts. But there seems to be reason to be cautious about taking grams of niacinamide while fasting. None of the studies quoted seem to show a problem with small doses with meals, and since I seem to function better if I include them, I'll probably continue for a while yet.

Sadly thats a poor argument alone to draw conclusions.. feeling good? "function better"? I feel awesome on a small line of coke, that doesnt imply by all means it will do good for me long term. I need to know the mechanism of action about something before making up a decision about using it. So the question remains: do we know for sure if the greater glucose metabolism (and consequent drop) is because anti- beta-oxidation (like meldonium), or because an insulin raising -insulin resistance promoting- action?​
 

Waga

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I have only seen niacin causing diabetes studies,and that due to insulin resistant caused by free fatty avid rebound effect.and niacinamide don't have that rebound.

Exactly. Niacin increases blood sugar. Niacinamide reduces it.
 
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