NEWBIE BONE BROTH QUESTIONS

[Lisa W]

Hi.
Suffering from suspected Adrenal Fatigue (already have bloodworm results, waiting for DUTCH test results to come back). Likely causes: Crazy stressful year, coupled with being post-menopausal, 12 months of a Vegan diet and a possible genetic predisposition. Pending a definitive and comprehensive diagnosis, my Dr. has put me on what is akin to a Paleo-ish diet for now - mainly lean animal protein, dairy & gluten free low sugar, limited carbs, selected vegetables and limited fruit.
Just made my first 2 batches of Bone Broth; 1 chicken and 1 beef. I used organic, grass fed beef soup bones & marrow bones, and organic pasture raised chicken soup bones & necks.
I roasted them first (450* for 40 mins), then they sat 30 minutes in the cold water/ACV bath. I slow simmered the chicken for 24 hours; strained then cooled it to close to room temp. I then fridged it in a large bowl overnight. This morning I skimmed off the fat- its gelled beautifully btw - and portioned it out into glass canning jars (left headroom) and froze them. I plan to cook the beef for a total of 48 hours and then follow the same protocol.

Q1: Do you see any flaws in my production?
Q2: Must Bone Broth be heated to boiling prior to consumption for safety reasons?
Q3: I read somewhere that if I choose to dilute my broth before consuming I should make sure I'm getting at least 150mls of the pure gel per serving; is this valid? I'm actually fine with eating it undiluted, I'm just wondering if I can stretch out a batch that way or if I need to resign myself to making it more often (I got 32 oz from the chicken batch).
Q4: I made mine over the stove in a stock pot; have you noticed any appreciable difference in the results when you use the crock pot?

Thanks in advance!

 

[FredSonoma]

feels like looking into a time machine of the past of myself lol

 

[Lisa W]

feels like looking into a time machine of the past of myself lol

Awesome! So trip back in time and give me the inside scoop please!! :)

 

[FredSonoma]

i dont believe in telling others how to live haha but if I were table to advise my old self i would say carbs are king :)

 

[raypeatclips]

I believe Ray has cautioned against cooking bones too long, and recommends something like 3 hours, because any long and undesirable things start to leech out of the bones after this point, I noticed you said you were cooking beef for 48 hours. Something for you to research to see if you can find anything about it.

 

[Hazarlar]

You didn't use vinegar before cooking? I always use simple apple cider vinegar for my chicken necks or just some chicken parts and cook them something between 3 and 6 hours. This is just comfortable for me because I can make the whole stuff after workday and drink it before bed. I add garlic also. Ray Peat said that 3-4 hours is enough for jelly. Vinegar should make nutrients to come out to the water from bone and meat. I also eat some bone after drinking the liquid. I got strange reaction out of my potion first time I drank it and also first time I drank lamb broth. And I also got some some weird temperature drop once I did it this summer. In this last case I didn't remove skin from some commercial chicken parts as I gave the skin to seagulls many times but not this time. And I was feeling weirdly cold in the following morning.

 

[Lisa W]

I believe Ray has cautioned against cooking bones too long, and recommends something like 3 hours, because any long and undesirable things start to leech out of the bones after this point, I noticed you said you were cooking beef for 48 hours. Something for you to research to see if you can find anything about it.

Thanks. I did a TON of research and everything said the longer the better. I did use organic grass fed beef.... I hope that make a diff. I can imagine that non organic animals invest all sorts of nasty toxins in their bones and organs.

 

[Lisa W]

You didn't use vinegar before cooking? I always use simple apple cider vinegar for my chicken necks or just some chicken parts and cook them something between 3 and 6 hours. This is just comfortable for me because I can make the whole stuff after workday and drink it before bed. I add garlic also. Ray Peat said that 3-4 hours is enough for jelly. Vinegar should make nutrients to come out to the water from bone and meat. I also eat some bone after drinking the liquid. I got strange reaction out of my potion first time I drank it and also first time I drank lamb broth. And I also got some some weird temperature drop once I did it this summer. In this last case I didn't remove skin from some commercial chicken parts as I gave the skin to seagulls many times but not this time. And I was feeling weirdly cold in the following morning.

I roasted the bones first, then soaked them covered in cold water with 2 T of Apple Cider vinegar before beginning the cooking process.

 

[raypeatclips]

Thanks. I did a TON of research and everything said the longer the better. I did use organic grass fed beef.... I hope that make a diff. I can imagine that non organic animals invest all sorts of nasty toxins in their bones and organs.

What difference does organic make when talking about bones? Googled "organic animal bones" and this was on the first page.

The risk of lead contamination in bone broth diets. - PubMed - NCBI

"A small, blinded, controlled study of lead concentrations in three different types of organic chicken broth showed that such broths do indeed contain several times the lead concentration of the water with which the broth is made."

Food Labelled 'Organic' Is No Guarantee of Safety—Shocking Levels of Heavy Metals in Imported Food Highlight the Danger

 

[Lisa W]

What difference does organic make when talking about bones? Googled "organic animal bones" and this was on the first page.

The risk of lead contamination in bone broth diets. - PubMed - NCBI

"A small, blinded, controlled study of lead concentrations in three different types of organic chicken broth showed that such broths do indeed contain several times the lead concentration of the water with which the broth is made."

Food Labelled 'Organic' Is No Guarantee of Safety—Shocking Levels of Heavy Metals in Imported Food Highlight the Danger

I read that study. It concluded by saying that the lead levels were still well within the limits of what is considered safe. Many believe the benefits of bone broth outweigh this exposure.

The point of organic, grass fed is that the animals bodies are not laced with chemicals and antibiotics, nor pesticides or toxins from the crap they are fed. Their bones (and organs) are much safer to consume than traditionally raised, commercial cuts.

 

[dannibo]

Hi.
Suffering from suspected Adrenal Fatigue (already have bloodworm results, waiting for DUTCH test results to come back). Likely causes: Crazy stressful year, coupled with being post-menopausal, 12 months of a Vegan diet and a possible genetic predisposition. Pending a definitive and comprehensive diagnosis, my Dr. has put me on what is akin to a Paleo-ish diet for now - mainly lean animal protein, dairy & gluten free low sugar, limited carbs, selected vegetables and limited fruit.
Just made my first 2 batches of Bone Broth; 1 chicken and 1 beef. I used organic, grass fed beef soup bones & marrow bones, and organic pasture raised chicken soup bones & necks.
I roasted them first (450* for 40 mins), then they sat 30 minutes in the cold water/ACV bath. I slow simmered the chicken for 24 hours; strained then cooled it to close to room temp. I then fridged it in a large bowl overnight. This morning I skimmed off the fat- its gelled beautifully btw - and portioned it out into glass canning jars (left headroom) and froze them. I plan to cook the beef for a total of 48 hours and then follow the same protocol.

Q1: Do you see any flaws in my production?
Q2: Must Bone Broth be heated to boiling prior to consumption for safety reasons?
Q3: I read somewhere that if I choose to dilute my broth before consuming I should make sure I'm getting at least 150mls of the pure gel per serving; is this valid? I'm actually fine with eating it undiluted, I'm just wondering if I can stretch out a batch that way or if I need to resign myself to making it more often (I got 32 oz from the chicken batch).
Q4: I made mine over the stove in a stock pot; have you noticed any appreciable difference in the results when you use the crock pot?

Thanks in advance!

From what I can gather is the bone should be free from meat scraps, not roasted just boiled in water, then let cool. It is the jelly that is then added to the vegetables to flavour it. This is where the easily digested protein is. You should get a second opinion as most doctors haven't a clue about diet or what your suffering from without a blood test.. Just saying.. I don't believe doctors even when they're on truth serum.

 

[cyclops]

From what I can gather is the bone should be free from meat scraps, not roasted just boiled in water, then let cool. It is the jelly that is then added to the vegetables to flavour it. This is where the easily digested protein is. You should get a second opinion as most doctors haven't a clue about diet or what your suffering from without a blood test.. Just saying.. I don't believe doctors even when they're on truth serum.

Whats the issue with roasting them first? Way more flavor thatta way.

 

[dannibo]

Whats the issue with roasting them first? Way more flavor thatta way.

I've no idea. Just relaying what I was told. I can't understand how you have fat from a bare bone though. Maybe roasting separates out the goodness but I don't really know. The bone broth I mentioned is for an easily digestible broth.. For sick people lol

 

[noordinary]

What difference does organic make when talking about bones? Googled "organic animal bones" and this was on the first page.

The risk of lead contamination in bone broth diets. - PubMed - NCBI

According to the study there were 9.5 and 7.01 mcg of lead for L of broth (the lead may be partially due to metal cookware they were using, though i don't do chicken broth anyways), compare that to 18 mcg in 12 g serving (2 tbsp) of Great Lakes Gelatin.
Also consider that 8 oz broth has 8 g protein and 12 g gelatin has 11 g protein.
To get 11 g protein from bone broth you only will need 11 oz of broth, that's only 1/3 of 1 L, so even less lead: about 3 mcg (according to the study you posted) vs 18 mcg from gelatin for the same amount of protein.
Looks like gelatin has more lead than chicken broth.

@Lisa W i have lots of experience with bone broth. I only use glass casserole for cooking it (usually around 8 hours) like that one: Visions®
I tried chicken, beef and even pork (all kind of bones and parts). I only use beef feet for bone broth now.
Please check out the thread
What's Better - Real Bone Broth Gelatin Or Powdered/Instant
I posted some nutrition information there as well as some pictures of how to get rid of fat in the broth.
- I don't roast bones (thats purely for flavor) simply because i don't have time for that
- I don't add any vegetables, again because it's more hassle and i don't have time, but i do make vegetable broth separately called Miracle Mineral Broth and drink it like sipping tea for extra minerals.

 

[omnivoracious]

Roasting will give it much more flavor. Use some cheesecloth to strain out fat when pouring broth into the container you will use to store the broth. I would highly recommend bringing bones to a boil and simmering for at least 8 hours.