New Peater Here . I Am Transitioning From Low Carb/calorie Raw Vegan

I_am

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I am so beside myself at the information I have come across on Ray Peat's findings. I was so absolutely sure that Raw Vegan was the divine diet for humans, and now I'm feeling broken and lost in the desert. All that I thought I knew from my years of research and study, out the window basically.

It is so nice to know there is an entire forum of beings that are Peating, I am excited and overwhelmed and very mad at the same time. I feel a sense of urgency especially because my son is 9 and I do not want him to be poisoned any further.

Hi All
 
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Raw veganism based on fruit can work, at least for a while, if the person has access to ripe nutritious fruit 24/7. But that's not reality for almost everyone. High fat raw veganism based on nuts, seeds and avocados does not work. Some claim that they are keto vegans but I don't believe them. Peat thinks that the safest daily calorie source is fruit so in that sense there is a coloration with raw vegan fruitarianism. The human being is a cooked omnivore and there is massive evidence for it. But veganism is not a diet. It's a political worldview. Just saying the word "vegan" stirs up emotions immediately in people, both vegans and omnivores alike. Whenever the subject of veganism comes up, one must always separate the nutrition and health aspects of it from the so called ethical and environmental aspects of it. They are two different conversations. The killing of an animal or the environmental impacts of raising that animal have nothing to do with nutritional biochemistry. If I ever decide to make YouTube videos making counter arguments to veganism, I would make the point that the billions of sea animal eaters in Asia and the goat meat and goat dairy eaters in India are unlikely to go vegan anytime soon. The effort to veganize the world is futile.

But for the purpose of living and eating a simple, enjoyable and cheap but nutritious diet, which hopefully will create longevity, a starched based diet with other plant foods seems to work well for me and I also base my decision off of the evidence of long lived cultures like the Okinawans who ate a diet of mostly cooked sweet potato and the many other peoples mentioned in "The Blue Zones" who ate cooked starch as a base. The only animal foods I enjoy are eggs, and properly cooked chicken, turkey, beef, bison and lamb and only the muscle meats. Organ meats would do more damage than any benefit from any possible nutriment that I may or may not get from them from the stress of forcing myself to eat them. The only seafood I ever enjoyed was tuna, both canned and fresh but I've decided that the prevalence of ocean dead zones may indicate that the tuna is best avoided, again, due to toxicity from eating the fish, not to "save the environment." The animal foods I enjoy tend to cause constipation so I'm moving towards a quasi-vegan diet for that reason. Quasi in the sense that I'll probably always have some animal product at least weekly. Denise Minger still eats a quasi raw vegan diet but she also eats animal foods. Her diet is here: My Current Diet

Like you, she also was a raw vegan. Eating my starched based diet has nothing to do with the plight of animals or the Earth, it's for purely selfish reasons. At least I admit it. Of course I enjoy dairy but that is a whole other subject. Although you've found a new perspective, don't just do the same thing you did with raw vegansim and become a fanatic. Always keep an open mind and expeirment. Always keep learning. Since you're a female who's had kids, you should probably talk to a female your age who has also had kids and is "Peating" to see what works for her.
 
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I_am

I_am

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Raw veganism based on fruit can work, at least for a while, if the person has access to ripe nutritious fruit 24/7. But that's not reality for almost everyone. High fat raw veganism based on nuts, seeds and avocados does not work. Some claim that they are keto vegans but I don't believe them. Peat thinks that the safest daily calorie source is fruit so in that sense there is a coloration with raw vegan fruitarianism. The human being is a cooked omnivore and there is massive evidence for it. But veganism is not a diet. It's a political worldview. Just saying the word "vegan" stirs up emotions immediately in people, both vegans and omnivores alike. Whenever the subject of veganism comes up, one must always separate the nutrition and health aspects of it from the so called ethical and environmental aspects of it. They are two different conversations. The killing of an animal or the environmental impacts of raising that animal have nothing to do with nutritional biochemistry. If I ever decide to make YouTube videos making counter arguments to veganism, I would make the point that the billions of sea animal eaters in Asia and the goat meat and goat dairy eaters in India are unlikely to go vegan anytime soon. The effort to veganize the world is futile.

But for the purpose of living and eating a simple, enjoyable and cheap but nutritious diet, which hopefully will create longevity, a starched based diet with other plant foods seems to work well for me and I also base my decision off of the evidence of long lived cultures like the Okinawans who ate a diet of mostly cooked sweet potato and the many other peoples mentioned in "The Blue Zones" who ate cooked starch as a base. The only animal foods I enjoy are eggs, and properly cooked chicken, turkey, beef, bison and lamb and only the muscle meats. Organ meats would do more damage than any benefit from any possible nutriment that I may or may not get from them from the stress of forcing myself to eat them. The only seafood I ever enjoyed was tuna, both canned and fresh but I've decided that the prevalence of ocean dead zones may indicate that the tuna is best avoided, again, due to toxicity from eating the fish, not to "save the environment." The animal foods I enjoy tend to cause constipation so I'm moving towards a quasi-vegan diet for that reason. Quasi in the sense that I'll probably always have some animal product at least weekly. Denise Minger still eats a quasi raw vegan diet but she also eats animal foods. Her diet is here: My Current Diet

Like you, she also was a raw vegan. Eating my starched based diet has nothing to do with the plight of animals or the Earth, it's for purely selfish reasons. At least I admit it. Of course I enjoy dairy but that is a whole other subject. Although you've found a new perspective, don't just do the same thing you did with raw vegansim and become a fanatic. Always keep an open mind and expeirment. Always keep learning. Since you're a female who's had kids, you should probably talk to a female your age who has also had kids and is "Peating" to see what works for her.

Thank you very much for the information! I can't input as much as I would like due to me having to use my phone for forum access, it won't let me on when I try to login on my desktop, says I am not a user ? Then it notifies me on my phone that someone is trying to hack my account.

Yes I do need to connect with other Mom's, I just have one child, no "children". Your honesty regarding your diet is refreshing. I took a peak at Denise's diet plan, very interesting..especially that she consumes red meat only every couple years..I imagine that might not work for everyone but as I've discovered we are different with many variables and factors to consider.

Thanks again, will be posting much more when I get logged into my desk top computer.
 

warrenbuffet

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When I was a raw vegan/fruitarian I had about 3 months where I felt AMAZING and then the rest of the time was a constant struggle wondering why I stopped feeling as good. Looking back, I can hypothesize that this was due to the stored cholesterol and fat soluble vitamins (a, d3, k2-m4, e) that I had accumulated prior to going raw vegan, so I was using up the reserves of these. Now I have a blended approach, about 20% calories coming from fruit, 65% starch, 5% vegetables like collards, chard, kale, and 10% animal products like oyster, liver. Still experimenting with regular meat like grass-fed beef, wild salmon, and pastured eggs, but it doesn't seem to have as positive of an effect as the oysters and liver. Through a LOT and trial of error this is where I'm currently at.

Don't know if this is helpful information for you, I just know that I was very attached to the idea of raw veganism being the perfect diet and struggled to accept the clear health issues it was causing. I believe it is extremely healthy but needs to include, in the long term, the fat-soluble vitamins, important minerals like zinc, selenium, iodine, and a small amount of cholesterol for hormone synthesis.
 
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I_am

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When I was a raw vegan/fruitarian I had about 3 months where I felt AMAZING and then the rest of the time was a constant struggle wondering why I stopped feeling as good. Looking back, I can hypothesize that this was due to the stored cholesterol and fat soluble vitamins (a, d3, k2-m4, e) that I had accumulated prior to going raw vegan, so I was using up the reserves of these. Now I have a blended approach, about 20% calories coming from fruit, 65% starch, 5% vegetables like collards, chard, kale, and 10% animal products like oyster, liver. Still experimenting with regular meat like grass-fed beef, wild salmon, and pastured eggs, but it doesn't seem to have as positive of an effect as the oysters and liver. Through a LOT and trial of error this is where I'm currently at.

Don't know if this is helpful information for you, I just know that I was very attached to the idea of raw veganism being the perfect diet and struggled to accept the clear health issues it was causing. I believe it is extremely healthy but needs to include, in the long term, the fat-soluble vitamins, important minerals like zinc, selenium, iodine, and a small amount of cholesterol for hormone synthesis.

Yes! Very much helpful, this sounds similar to the experience I had actually. First 4-5 months pretty good, and then my energy began to fall rapidly. I was already anemic when I started, have basically been my whole life since childhood. I think it's an absorption issue honestly, I'm not sure I can digest iron correctly, but never did follow up with appointments to check into this. I really dislike going to the Dr. (like I would probably stitch myself up if I had a gaping wound dislike) I work in healthcare which is ironic.

Your plan sounds solid, I was bummed to find out I couldn't have Salmon anymore due to the unsaturated fat they accumulate. Although I could have my info wrong, after discovering Ray Peat a mere 2 or 3 weeks ago, I am still befuddled on ALOT of things, and question it every day actually :):

Thanks for your post, the ratio sounds like something I could try too. I have been doing heavy dairy lately and am now wondering if that has been a good idea.
 

EIRE24

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When I was a raw vegan/fruitarian I had about 3 months where I felt AMAZING and then the rest of the time was a constant struggle wondering why I stopped feeling as good. Looking back, I can hypothesize that this was due to the stored cholesterol and fat soluble vitamins (a, d3, k2-m4, e) that I had accumulated prior to going raw vegan, so I was using up the reserves of these. Now I have a blended approach, about 20% calories coming from fruit, 65% starch, 5% vegetables like collards, chard, kale, and 10% animal products like oyster, liver. Still experimenting with regular meat like grass-fed beef, wild salmon, and pastured eggs, but it doesn't seem to have as positive of an effect as the oysters and liver. Through a LOT and trial of error this is where I'm currently at.

Don't know if this is helpful information for you, I just know that I was very attached to the idea of raw veganism being the perfect diet and struggled to accept the clear health issues it was causing. I believe it is extremely healthy but needs to include, in the long term, the fat-soluble vitamins, important minerals like zinc, selenium, iodine, and a small amount of cholesterol for hormone synthesis.
Do you eat much fat in your diet to make sure the fat soluble vitamins are being absorbed efficiently?
 
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Are you asking me or warrenbuffet? Or It appears you are referencing what warren said, and to answer you in relation to myself: maybe?

Now I would guess that I do? I'm still new to all this and am doing the "work" as much as I can from reading Ray's work and implementing, Ray's literature is definitely not for the "lay" person so to speak, so there are many things I am still digesting no pun intended. :):

At this time, I consume each day: full fat grass fed Milk/butter/cheese and then raw coconut oil each day with my coffee, and on food to my liking.

When I was Raw Vegan, I got most of my fat from daily avocado and nuts/seeds, and occasional coconut oil (like twice a week maybe?).
 
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So the starvation diet?

Looking back, yes absolutely! It was kind of absurd haha, after experimenting with that I now chalk it up to a scientific experiment rather than a lifestyle (because it was, required many adjustments beyond diet), and it was pretty silly to think that I could maintain that forever without nutrient deficiencies.

Admittedly my spiritual path took me to a point in my life to where I thought I was ready to just live on Air/Sunlight, the Prana forgoing physical food as I did not believe it was necessary. With that said, vitamin's or nutrients were not my concern then. I've had a slight adjustment on my path and realize I am confined to my physical body for now, and it requires things, you know because that's how it was coded. I hope to crack the code one day and truly bio-hack but that's a subject for another day, off topic really.
 

Constatine

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Looking back, yes absolutely! It was kind of absurd haha, after experimenting with that I now chalk it up to a scientific experiment rather than a lifestyle (because it was, required many adjustments beyond diet), and it was pretty silly to think that I could maintain that forever without nutrient deficiencies.

Admittedly my spiritual path took me to a point in my life to where I thought I was ready to just live on Air/Sunlight, the Prana forgoing physical food as I did not believe it was necessary. With that said, vitamin's or nutrients were not my concern then. I've had a slight adjustment on my path and realize I am confined to my physical body for now, and it requires things, you know because that's how it was coded. I hope to crack the code one day and truly bio-hack but that's a subject for another day, off topic really.
There is nothing more spiritual than the body. It is interconnected with the universe (or environment) in every way. It is a reflection of the past and a vessel for the future. Most holy texts appreciate the body in all its wonder. The need to separate the mind, body, and spirit is a rather new phenomenon. These things work best when they are closely woven together.
 

Richiebogie

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If you are after the optimal diet then note that Dairy foods can cause acne and other skin issues in some people, possibly due to hormones.

Also Dairy can cause autism in some people perhaps because of the A1 beta casein protein acting like morphine.

Sardines and tinned salmon have edible bones in them which might be a safer source of calcium, selenium and protein than dairy.

Tropical fish may have less pufa though because of the warmer water keeping the healthier saturated fat liquid in their bodies. The traditional Okinawans and Kitavans would have had tropical fish.

Some people use coconut milk instead of dairy...
 

warrenbuffet

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Do you eat much fat in your diet to make sure the fat soluble vitamins are being absorbed efficiently?

I currently eat fat from coconuts, liver, oysters. That's pretty much it. Fat is an accent to the meal not the bulk of calories.
 
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There is nothing more spiritual than the body. It is interconnected with the universe (or environment) in every way. It is a reflection of the past and a vessel for the future. Most holy texts appreciate the body in all its wonder. The need to separate the mind, body, and spirit is a rather new phenomenon. These things work best when they are closely woven together.

I would guess this Human body is how Consciousness experiences life here, in the 3D (and 4D)just by manifesting and presenting itself as different and separate Beings (including Animals/Plants/Critters) to learn and again experience. I personally have noticed a direct connection between what I consume food wise and my own Awareness. For example when fasting on water, I experience visions, ideas, euphoria and growth in area's of my life where I had stagnated a bit? Eating is definitely an intimate and important tool for nourishment and even pleasure in my opinion, but I'm not so sure that the act of eating (even in the "healthiest" manner) is the key to anti aging, or a long life.

It play's a role, sure, but maybe not as large of a role as it's made out to be, food like all other things related to our primal instincts, will almost always take precedence and can be distracting, leading beings away from higher purpose. Obviously poisonous food will not lead to a long life, however I think the same applies to the consumption of poisonous information, media, idea's etc.

As far as weaving those aspects of self together, mind/body/spirit, I have not personally found a way to stay balanced but through fasting and meditation (which really isn't balance anyway right? It feels right for me though) when I am in the world participating and buying into all of this it gets very overwhelming and jumping out of a window sounds good. :): Density of 3d and the body can be a bit rough to handle at times.
 
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If you are after the optimal diet then note that Dairy foods can cause acne and other skin issues in some people, possibly due to hormones.

Also Dairy can cause autism in some people perhaps because of the A1 beta casein protein acting like morphine.

Sardines and tinned salmon have edible bones in them which might be a safer source of calcium, selenium and protein than dairy.

Tropical fish may have less pufa though because of the warmer water keeping the healthier saturated fat liquid in their bodies. The traditional Okinawans and Kitavans would have had tropical fish.

Some people use coconut milk instead of dairy...

Thank you very much for the info, coconut milk is SO hard to find around here with no added gums (does it exist? should I just make my own?)...it always has carrageenan or guar gum in it. Even the Organic 100% kind, I don't understand how they can claim it's 100% coconut milk with the gum additive.
 

Regina

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There is nothing more spiritual than the body. It is interconnected with the universe (or environment) in every way. It is a reflection of the past and a vessel for the future. Most holy texts appreciate the body in all its wonder. The need to separate the mind, body, and spirit is a rather new phenomenon. These things work best when they are closely woven together.
I love Ray's use of the word "coherent." For me, as a zen/aikidoka, I try to take care of my body because it houses my mind. But disambiguating in every way--to be coherent--is a better way to look at it.
 

Constatine

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I would guess this Human body is how Consciousness experiences life here, in the 3D (and 4D)just by manifesting and presenting itself as different and separate Beings (including Animals/Plants/Critters) to learn and again experience. I personally have noticed a direct connection between what I consume food wise and my own Awareness. For example when fasting on water, I experience visions, ideas, euphoria and growth in area's of my life where I had stagnated a bit? Eating is definitely an intimate and important tool for nourishment and even pleasure in my opinion, but I'm not so sure that the act of eating (even in the "healthiest" manner) is the key to anti aging, or a long life.

It play's a role, sure, but maybe not as large of a role as it's made out to be, food like all other things related to our primal instincts, will almost always take precedence and can be distracting, leading beings away from higher purpose. Obviously poisonous food will not lead to a long life, however I think the same applies to the consumption of poisonous information, media, idea's etc.

As far as weaving those aspects of self together, mind/body/spirit, I have not personally found a way to stay balanced but through fasting and meditation (which really isn't balance anyway right? It feels right for me though) when I am in the world participating and buying into all of this it gets very overwhelming and jumping out of a window sounds good. :) Density of 3d and the body can be a bit rough to handle at times.
I love it when threads get off topic, it's where all the passionate conversations are. Have you tried grounding or earthing? I find it very spiritual.
 

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