New Peat Person --Help with Eating

[messtafarian]

Hi there :)

Quick introduction: I am 48 years old. For about two years, I had very very heavy menorrhagia that the doctor told me to control with ibuprofin and just waiting for menopause. No aspirin -- this thins blood and causes bleeding. I did this until my blood iron level went to 6.8 and then decided perhaps it was time for some sort of surgical intervention. Discovered I have a massive fibroid the size of a grapefruit in my uterus. Flipped out, signed up for surgery, actually moved home so my family could take care of me. In the meantime I was going to see doctors -- discovered I was hyperthyroid and also had a 4cm nodule in my thyroid that was shown to be a colloid -- no cancer. Then also discovered I had high blood pressure and was prescribed high blood pressure meds for this. Then -- on an ekg, left ventricular hypertrophy and slight atrial fibrillation.

However, while all this was going on, my menses totally stopped and I started having raging hot flashes and brain fog to the point I could not function.

This was all in the space of about three months. Basically: wtf.

So clearly my ovaries just stopped working. I can't exactly say this was premature at my age but it is about five years earlier than my mother or my grandmother experienced menopause. In the meantime there is a multinodular goiter in my neck that needs to be "watched" if they don't decide I need it removed or irradiated, and then there are the blood pressure meds -- and frankly at 48 it's a little early for this in my opinion.

My eating for the past couple years has been pretty erratic but not lowcarb. I went on Nutrisystem and lost about 30 pounds -- this took about five months. It's all soy. I was a semi-"vegetarian" -- more soy. I think I have soy poisoning. I also drank a lot of diet soda, lots of late nights, wine, working late, just knocking around. I felt I had enough energy up til about January of this year and then my brain started going a little froggy and the anemia started getting serious from the excessive bleeding. Then I just crashed. I knew something was wrong. I supplemented with iron as directed; chewables -- about 300 percent of RDA a day.

There is fibrosis in my uterus, my thyroid and in my heart. Oh, and also my ear in the form of a cholesteatoma that I just had removed. My liver panels are normal but who knows, maybe that's fibrotic too.

I gotta do something, here.

I've been reading and reading about Peat diet protocols. My problem is I think this is a serious endocrine issue and I don't think doctors can help me. I know they want to - I know it's their job and all but this intersection in my health, to me -- seems like a downhill deal. There's too much wrong. I don't think they'll have much for me but the standard offers of radiation and a low-salt diet, blood pressure meds and iron supplements.

Until I get my first heart attack or cancer diagnosis.

In the meantime, the really scary thing is I don't feel well. I just don't. I am ill, maybe for the first time really in my whole life. The worst part is the brain fog and the memory problems. I would be worried I had a brain tumor if I hadn't already had a cat scan for that.

So.

Peat.

I've been trying to piece together the eating now for about a week. I'm not getting how the nutrition works out to be "high protein." A quart of low fat milk has 33 grams of protein --you'd have to drink two of those to get to 66 grams. That's a thousand calories. Add some gelatin, ok -- it's about 7 grams for two cups of gelatin. A couple eggs is another 15 grams. Add another couple hundred calories. Then a quart of OJ -- another 500 calories.

We're at two thousand.

That's high protein -- but if you add the other stuff -- fruit, sugar, coconut oil, coke, ice cream, regular cream, etc -- this is also a pretty high calorie diet. I can see being able to manage the milk, OJ and gelatin but I don't see how to get the sugar in for fuel on top of that to get my thyroid moving without eating way too many calories.

Also, I am thirsty. I am used to an artificially sweetened zero calorie beverage instead of a 150 calorie can of Pepsi Throwback. What do you all drink during the day besides milk, orange juice and coca cola? Green tea with stevia? Do you just drink water and not sweeten at all? I was pondering just plain carbonated water, but I like a little sweetness, some flavoring.

For supplements I started with two aspirin and topical progesterone and I've ordered pregnenolone and magnesium oil. I have a bunch of other stuff but I'm stuck on whether to take it or not. For example I have some outrageously expensive B-Complex wafers I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take. I dropped the iron -- it's enough, anyway, I think, to counter whatever iron deficiency I had.

So hi everyone. Thoughts on protein and calories, sweeteners besides sugar, or any other little thing?

 

[j.]

If you have 2 quarts of milk, taking many cups throughout the day, you won't have room for a lot more. At least I don't.

Can you already drink 2 quarts of milk? Some people need to increase the amount gradually to not create digestive discomfort.

So I could consume for example 2 quarts of milk (with coffee, chocolate, sugar, and gelatin), 1 quart of OJ, 2 eggs, and that might be it some days. Other days I eat liver, or shrimp, or have just 1 quart of milk and eat other things.

 

[messtafarian]

That's true, about the milk. It occurred to me after reading about this for a while that this was in a sense almost a liquid diet; which is another thing I was curious about. If you get in two quarts of milk and one quart of OJ, plus bone broth or gelatin, plus coconut oil and maybe some soft, sweet fruits -- you've gotten plenty of calories and no solid food.

Honestly I have no idea if I can handle that much milk. I haven't tried it yet. I don't even know what I'm eating yet, just going to the grocery store and buying what seems to fit. I ate cheese, milk, fruit, coconut oil, cottage cheese and extremely well-cooked potato with sour cream and cheddar, mangoes and grapes, three pepsi throwbacks and one or two cups of coffee with milk yesterday. Oh, also haagen dazs vanilla bean ice cream and a carrot.

I know it's disordered but I'm trying to figure it out. Maybe just eat less food and try to get the milk and OJ in?

 

[j.]

I would start just by avoiding all significant sources of PUFA. Drink the amount of milk you're comfortable with, and fill the rest of the calories with what you usually eat. A daily raw carrot on an empty stomach will help fix digestive issues you might have while increasing milk.

Then you can gradually incorporate whatever aspect you feel like, for example, increasing fruit or fruit juice consumption to replace grains.

 

[Mittir]

80 grams of protein provides 16% calories in a 2000 calorie diet.
This does not look like a high protein diet. 1 quart of Milk has 50 grams of sugar.
He mentioned 185- 250 grams of sugar for a standard 2000 calorie diet, that is 33 to 50 percent.
There are online calculators that calculate caloric requirement based on
height, weight and activity. General guideline at least 80 grams of protein ,
33-50 percent calories from sugar and fat is optional.
He recommends some saturated fat with each meal to control blood sugar and block PUFA release.
But if one needs to decrease calories it is better to lower fat than sugar.
1 cup of 2 % fat cottage cheese has 200 calories with 27 grams of protein.
Pure gelatin powder has about 90% protein. 1 quart of milk provide the daily
calcium and cottage cheese is low in calcium. It does not have to be 2 quarts of milk
and 1 quart of OJ diet . You can change it around depending on your need, but following
basic guideline like avoiding PUFA, lowering Tryptophan rich protein, high calcium and
other minerals etc. Milk and dairy has lots of extra benefits compare to other source of protein.
Sugar increases metabolism and this increases need for vitamins and minerals.
Having 3-6 oz of liver every week and a serving of seafood every week can be very helpful for that.

 

[messtafarian]

Everything up to a couple days ago was grains, veggies and soy; and artificial sweetener. In Peat terms this is an All Poison diet. It's the Soccer Mom diet. No fruit at all, because of the sugar -- plus complex grains because they're "low-gi". I bought Domino's regular sugar packets yesterday in a state of dissociation. I had not had refined white sugar in my coffee for 35 years.

Mittur -- that was a bit what I was saying. It does *not* look like a high protein diet though I had not considered the issue of the milk sugar, which adds even more sugar. It seems more than anything like a very high carbohydrate diet in which one has to be very careful to ingest adequate protein if one is to keep calories under control.

I don't mind high carbohydrates and after this long getting sick on a "low sugar, low gi" diet I am sure willing to try another angle in eliminating PUFA and trying to manage my thyroid. Increasing metabolism seems to be important. My real issue is getting better; getting back to energy and clarity -- without getting too fat.

 

[charlie]

Poor soccer moms.

Messtafararian, you are on the right track and I think you will see a quick turnaround although it pays to be patient and just walk it through slowly. :)

Ice cream is not a staple of this diet. Some of us just choose to eat more then others. But, eating too much can definitely bring on the weight. Ray Peat suggests for some people to eat a couple spoon fulls at night right before bed to help lower stress hormones and help the liver get through the night. For some reason people pick up the ice cream part and go full blown ice cream crazy. After being low carb, I cannot blame them though. But its not something you HAVE to eat. Things like milk, OJ, cheese, shellfish and liver occasionally, coconut oil, gelatin, salt, couple eggs a day, should make the bulk of your diet for optimal results.

With all that being said. You need to find out what works for you. Some of us could not do milk at first and had to make our own cheese until we could handle the milk. Some of us could not handle gelatin at first. Our bodies are so sick from being inundated with a non food supply(poison), that it takes time for the metabolism to rev back up. Once you start getting your body the correct fuel, it will turn the degenerative process around and you will start seeing a difference.

 

[messtafarian]

:). I believe it about the ice cream. I got it from somewhere that this was good for insomnia but this was not the case. In fact I paced around with high energy until 3 in the morning. Outside of that, though, I ate it because I was hungry.

Hunger has been pretty major for me since I started trying to eat this way. Sugar calories seem to burn through me and leave me starving and then I'm kind of lost as to what to do next since I've already eaten a lot of my daily calories from the ingested sugar. Likewise caffeine and sugar -- the pepsi throwback makes me just ravenous.

I'm going to try more milk tomorrow and the OJ -- which I haven't tried. They seem to make up the essential calories of this protocol so I guess I better get to the center of this and see if that doesn't do something for the hunger.

 

[charlie]

When I started eating this way, it was like that in the beginning for me too. I just think, our bodies kinda go, OMG, real food, real energy, THIS IS WHAT I NEED AND I WANT MORE MORE MORE!! And starts to go crazy for it. So what I did, was I ate/drank into those cravings, until I squashed them. Now, this does not happen to me anymore. It's just the bodies way of trying to get more of what it sees as really good. It will for sure level out. When I crave sugar, or get really thirsty now, which is very rare, I make sure to turn up the sugar and protein and meet that need that the body is asking for.

 

[charlie]

Oh, and coconut oil. It's a must. Me and another forum member have been discussing this privately and we feel this is a huge factor in expediting the process of getting our bodies back to metabolic happiness.

 

[messtafarian]

Well, if you've been indoctrinated by the anti-sugar people at any point what they would say is that it's caused by hypoglycemia, which is caused by the ingestion of sugar; a vicious cycle that ends in diabetes and heart disease and "syndrome x".

The reason I wonder about this now is that my mother and grandmother both had "syndrome x" and I always thought it had to to with too much sugar. Staying away from sugar hasn't done much for me though. I'm actually a lot less healthy than either of them were at this age.

I've been making sure I get the coconut oil as it seems really key to me as well.

One thing I wonder -- is it recommended to do sugar and protein together? I wonder if that's why my hunger level is so high with the pepsi throwback. Did I miss a rule?

 

[j.]

One thing I wonder -- is it recommended to do sugar and protein together? I wonder if that's why my hunger level is so high with the pepsi throwback. Did I miss a rule?

I'm not sure there is a rule that every single time you eat sugar or protein you should do it with the other. I think you should just try eating different ways and see what happens.

 

[charlie]

Ray Peat has said its best to balance things out. Now, does that happen for me every single time, well, mostly.

Yes, you always want to balance sugar with protein. Because sugar will push up your blood sugar, protein, will push it down. So always want to have sugar, protein, and a little bit of fat together at one time. Makes things less stressful on the body. Now, dont go stressing out thinking, OMG, gotta get my proteins and sugar, gotta get my proteins and sugar. Just keep in mind that for optimal results, balancing it is best.

Sugar does not cause diabetes. Sugar just happens to be at the scene of the crime, the robbery of your metabolism. When your metabolism breaks down, sugar cannot complete its normal cycle in the body so it gets stuck in the blood and cannot get into the cell. So its not sugars fault, its the broken metabolisms fault.

 

[charlie]

Just to add a little more to the above post:

If you eat an all sugar meal, or snack, and it pushes up your blood sugar too high, the body will send in stress hormones to bring it back down. Same thing if you ate an all protein meal or snack, your blood sugar will go low and the body will send in stress hormones to bring it back up.

So that's why its good to have a balance of both protein and sugar, with a little bit of fat to make things optimal.

 

[j.]

In case you haven't come across, polyunsaturated fats are the best documented cause of diabetes according to Peat.

 

[Peata]

Hi and welcome.

It took me at least two weeks to get used to "burning sugar" when I made the switch to Peat eating. I would sometimes get hypoglycemia and felt like I had to eat every couple hours. I probably wasn't balancing my meals out right, but even so, I think it was just a big change. So hang in there, you will get acclimated.

I also just went ahead and ate to satisfaction and didn't worry about calories. I've only recently decided to lose some weight and started trying to keep my calories under 2000. I've been Peat eating for over 5 months now.

I track things in cronometer.

 

[messtafarian]

Yeah -- you know the funny thing about reading Peat is that I remember a lot of what he's talking about from the late nineties. The older version of the internet seemed to have a certain type of information available that was just more accessible. For example -- aspirin and controlling heart disease and cancer with COX-2 inhibitors was a huge and hopeful breakthrough.

The whole issue with Omega-3's, back then, was that -- well, we had *too many* Omega-6's going in so we had to *balance* with Omega 3's -- because Omega 6 PUFA's were not *harmful* unless they were *out of balance*.

This reminds me of what RP said about how the body keeps using the saturated and saving the polyunsaturated fats because the PUFAs were lower quality. So in old age you'd have accumulated a lot of toxic fat. What the medical food industry was suggesting then, was to replace our stores of saturated fat with Omega 3 fatty acids so that we were not *competely* awash in Omega 6 oils. They were not ever exactly saying that PUFA's were bad -- just out of balance in a modern diet. Kind of glossing over the fact that saturated fats were protective and preferable nutrition.

This was actually the initial draw of the New Atkins Diet in the mid-nineties. EAT FAT. Plant oils were not really on the list of approved foods until later on; and I am not surprised the connection between plant oils and diabetes was also kind of glossed over. When I started using meal replacement bars as a "vegetarian" low carber I had terrible uterine problems and the beginning of a thyroid problem but at the time the docs waved it off as normal female troubles.

Anyway the more I read the more it comes ebbing back. Fifteen years later soy is in absolutely, absolutely *everything*. And if you got a good look at my insides you would not think for a minute this stuff protected against anything but old age.

 

[messtafarian]

Hi Peata:

Yes, adjusting to real sugar is really challenging. But I don't know what to make of artificial sweetener anymore so I'm just going to make the adjustment. Like soy, there just didn't seem to be as much of this around before as there is now -- there's not just splenda in soda pop, it's in the ice cream and candy and bread too.

I just went over to cronometer and logged my stuff. I like it, it's kind more user friendly for some reason than some of the other nutrition tools out there.

 

[Peata]

Yeah -- you know the funny thing about reading Peat is that I remember a lot of what he's talking about from the late nineties. The older version of the internet seemed to have a certain type of information available that was just more accessible. For example -- aspirin and controlling heart disease and cancer with COX-2 inhibitors was a huge and hopeful breakthrough.

The whole issue with Omega-3's, back then, was that -- well, we had *too many* Omega-6's going in so we had to *balance* with Omega 3's -- because Omega 6 PUFA's were not *harmful* unless they were *out of balance*.

This reminds me of what RP said about how the body keeps using the saturated and saving the polyunsaturated fats because the PUFAs were lower quality. So in old age you'd have accumulated a lot of toxic fat. What the medical food industry was suggesting then, was to replace our stores of saturated fat with Omega 3 fatty acids so that we were not *competely* awash in Omega 6 oils. They were not ever exactly saying that PUFA's were bad -- just out of balance in a modern diet. Kind of glossing over the fact that saturated fats were protective and preferable nutrition.

This was actually the initial draw of the New Atkins Diet in the mid-nineties. EAT FAT. Plant oils were not really on the list of approved foods until later on; and I am not surprised the connection between plant oils and diabetes was also kind of glossed over. When I started using meal replacement bars as a "vegetarian" low carber I had terrible uterine problems and the beginning of a thyroid problem but at the time the docs waved it off as normal female troubles.

Anyway the more I read the more it comes ebbing back. Fifteen years later soy is in absolutely, absolutely *everything*. And if you got a good look at my insides you would not think for a minute this stuff protected against anything but old age.

I remember all that too.

During my veg days, I believed everything I read about how soy was the savior. I used soy-based fake meats, gallons of soy milk, tofu, even ate soybeans. Aahhhh. Thankfully I wasn't into that but a year, but still soy is in everything, as you say.

 

[HDD]

I found it very humbling to realize that pretty much everything I knew about healthy food and nutrition was WRONG!! I even fed soy formula to my first child.