New And Need Help With Hot Flashes

[Ski4life]

Hi all,
My name is Denise. Recently a naturopath type doctor recommended Progest-e for my debilitating hot flashes. She said 5 drops am and pm. I've been taking that for three weeks with some success - but not enough.

She hasnt responded to emails asking for a revised dosage so I would like to hear from you all. I get the idea I need more but what's the smart amount more.

Fwiw, I also seem to have cortisol spurts in the middle of the night and she has me on a whole host of supplements to deal with that.

Thanks in advance for any thoughful responses.

 

[marikay]

Hi. My first and only advice to another woman on hot flashes and/or cortisol is:

Sugar, sugar, and more sugar..

ProgestE worked great for my arthritic shoulder, but nothing works like sugar for the things that are bothering you right now.

Welcome.

 

[ecstatichamster]

More progesterone night be helpful. Eating a sugar snack before bedtime.

 

[Sheila]

In my experiences, more progest-e can work but can also seem to release oestrogen into the blood stream and, if the liver is not working properly, cause symptoms that get blamed on the progesterone (water retention, bloating, weight gain etc) when in fact it's just liver overload and oestrogen playing havoc thereupon. Saying 'just' doesn't necessarily make it easy to fix and the plethora of supplements you are on may be working for, or against liver overload. Progest-e is useful but not a magic wand (there IS NO magic wand in my experience) and yes, as far as I can see, cortisol is a big player here, as is how the nervous system is functioning generally. So, upping your dose may help but not if you're getting other symptoms as a result. If so, perhaps consider how regular and un-irritated your bowel is; how regular your food intake is; measure your temp and pulse and get an idea of when you flush and if there is any reason to it. I have seen many cases of low blood sugar triggering hot flushes and this can even happen when someone has just fed depending on whether that fuel is readily available or calls upon insulin to work in which case blood sugar can be lowered further and voila, a flush occurs.
The posts of HDD, thebigpeatowski and further back, Peatarian may be of use to you in your research. Also the recent pod cast viewtopic.php?f=164&t=9058 #17 touches on all of this and the interaction between oestrogen (which you likely do have plenty of) and cortisol in a very helpful manner.
Good luck with your journey
Sheila

 

[ecstatichamster]

The guy who sells Progestelle is a doctor supposedly and he is very clear that you eliminate xenoestrogen sources for a few months before treatment. And also iodine can help (Lugols although I know Peat doesn't think highly of this at all.)

I would try Ioderol or Lugol's myself. And eliminating all parabens, and laundry detergents and shampoos and conditioners and cosmetics except things that are known safe. So many xenoestrogens enter the skin and the body.

 

[Catcream]

Sheila - hi . You say progest -e can cause bloating , water retention etc. Have you experienced this yourself ? Do you still get regular periods , ie not menopausal or anything ? is there a way to ensure progest e does not convert to estrogen ?

 

[Sheila]

Dear catcream
Use of progesterone can release oestrogen from tissues and into the blood stream whereupon IF not detoxified properly by the liver the released oestrogen tends to cause issues stated in some normally menstruating, peri-menopausal, menopausal and post menopausal women. Progesterone does not turn into oestrogen. Progest e contains vitamin e and that can waste sodium which will further exacerbate fluid retention, bloating etc in susceptible individuals.
i hope that clarifies for you.
Sheila

 

[Catcream]

Thanks Sheila...yes I sort of get that. I have been using progest e , but all of a sudden in the last week , my bowels have ground to a halt and retaining A LOT of water....very very uncomfortable. I'm holding 6 pounds of extra fluid etcetera which is not budging, in my stomach and legs, ankles. I had not considered it might be being caused by progest e until i read your comment. I take quite a lot and am wondering if i should back off. It may not be, it could be other issues but am trying to resolve.

 

[Ski4life]

Thanks...

Oddly the only thing related that I can deduce is carbohydrates - i.e. if I eat too many, the hot flashes are worse.

I decided to take 10 drops (1/4 tsp) morning, noon and bedtime. Will give it a few days.

Otherwise, no issues other than the waking up at 330am which is def. cortisol.

Appreciate the help -
Denise

 

[Sheila]

Yes I have seen the initial uptick as carbohydrates have been increased and it depends on what carbohydrates are used and when and how the system copes with them compared to its more normal (previous) settings. It appears the body takes time to adapt particularly if oestrogen is in the driving seat, but I do appreciate flushing symptoms can be annoying if not debilitating for some. If there is insulin release to 'deal with' the starchier carbs, then low blood sugar can result momentarily and flushing seems to be one response to that. If it happens repeatedly, then I feel that blood sugar imbalance is an issue, particularly if lowered carbs had been the norm before. Try mixing up what carbs and when. I think gut irritation is also in the mix, serotonin/oestrogen/histamine going hand in hand, and also the body's ability to respond to increased heat generation (ie. proper metabolism warms you up) appropriately goes out of whack for a while as it does in those who are hypothyroid and, as a result, like a very defined 'goldilocks' temperature range until metabolism is improved. A lot of women have hot flashes drinking coffee so believe coffee is to blame but I think once again it's due to the imbalance of the above and once that is quietened, and presuming there is some glycogen around, coffee prevents such things. Maybe do some research on the herbs you have been given (if there are herbs in your supplements) a lot of what is taught in herbal medicine is still to give oestrogenics and cortisol inducers for hot flashes. Might not be the best thing.....Just my observations and experiences, so FWIW.
Best of luck, Sheila

 

[tara]

Welcome Denise.

I'm around fifty, pre- or perimenopausal. I used to wake up with night sweats from time to time, but it hasn't happened for a long time now. I'm guessing the improvemnt came fro some of of the fllowing changes.
* I've been taking progest-e for more than 2 years now - the first year or so 5 times a day, most of the last year just twice a day. (My menstrual cycle continues, but a bit erratic - could be perimenopause or could be that my progest-e supp is not quite regular enough.)
* I increased my sugar consumption a lot. I'd been eating a high proportion of starch and low sugar for many years. For quite a long time I kept snacks by the bed to eat when I woke up in the night - a couple of dates is usually enough to allow me to sleep again. I also ate more overall.
* I got my bed warmer by using an electric blanket to pre-warm it (then turn it off before I sleep) and more blankets etc. This was very counterintuitive, because it felt like I was waking up too hot, and that I'd sleep better cooler.

I'm presuming the warmer bed and increased glycogen stores and reduced estrogen helped prevent the wee hours spike in stress hormones.

 

[Corinne Harding]

Hi. My first and only advice to another woman on hot flashes and/or cortisol is:

Sugar, sugar, and more sugar.

Hi Marikay,
I'm pretty new here and was hoping for a little of your advice on hot flashes and sugar. I have been on BHRT for 5 years,both oral progesterone and estriadol gel. I have stopped to just go ahead with progestelle, ( I shall order Ray's progest E to continue the transition once I have finished my 3 month supply). My problem is that since the change over, the last month and an half, my hot flashes have returned with a vengence and sometimes up to 40/day and night! .I would like to know how I could increase my white sugar uptake, could you recommend a few different alternatives to incorporate it into a hot flash deterrent! lol
I also have woken up just about every night for the last 7 years around 4am, even when on BHRT do you think that could be to do with cortisol?

One final question, recently a friend of mine mentioned that her hot flashes completely dissappeared literally overnight when she used cannabis oil, I've read that quote:-
" Cannabis does boost serotonin which can lower body temperature and this may be why CBD works for hot flashes."

So not sure if I should try that. I'm pretty sure I am hypothyroid so I get a gut feeling this is not going to help in the long run and the fact that it increases serotonin is a bit aof a 'no no' I think....any imput?

I shall drink a sugary drink before bedtime tonight and thank you for your advice here on the forum.... along with my progestelle and see if I sleep better.............it really is difficult to relearn that white sugar is not only OK but could well help with my HOT flashes!!

Thanks for you time
Best wishes
Corinna

Hi. My first and only advice to another woman on hot flashes and/or cortisol is:

Sugar, sugar, and more sugar..

ProgestE worked great for my arthritic shoulder, but nothing works like sugar for the things that are bothering you right now.

Welcome.

 

[marikay]

Hi Marikay,
I'm pretty new here and was hoping for a little of your advice on hot flashes and sugar. I have been on BHRT for 5 years,both oral progesterone and estriadol gel. I have stopped to just go ahead with progestelle, ( I shall order Ray's progest E to continue the transition once I have finished my 3 month supply). My problem is that since the change over, the last month and an half, my hot flashes have returned with a vengence and sometimes up to 40/day and night! .I would like to know how I could increase my white sugar uptake, could you recommend a few different alternatives to incorporate it into a hot flash deterrent! lol
I also have woken up just about every night for the last 7 years around 4am, even when on BHRT do you think that could be to do with cortisol?

One final question, recently a friend of mine mentioned that her hot flashes completely dissappeared literally overnight when she used cannabis oil, I've read that quote:-
" Cannabis does boost serotonin which can lower body temperature and this may be why CBD works for hot flashes."

So not sure if I should try that. I'm pretty sure I am hypothyroid so I get a gut feeling this is not going to help in the long run and the fact that it increases serotonin is a bit aof a 'no no' I think....any imput?

I shall drink a sugary drink before bedtime tonight and thank you for your advice here on the forum.... along with my progestelle and see if I sleep better.............it really is difficult to relearn that white sugar is not only OK but could well help with my HOT flashes!!

Thanks for you time
Best wishes
Corinna

Hi. Thanks for the note. Here is the best I can come up with in the time I have to write tonight:

I used to wake up at 4AM as well. I cured the problem with a big increase in good animal protein and enough good carbohydrates to balance the protein. As close as you can get to 100 grams of good animal protein and to 400 grams of good carbohydrates every day, the quicker you’ll find yourself sleeping through the night. It’s a liver not holding enough glycogen to get you through the night kind of thing, and so cortisol increases and wakes you up. It takes a few weeks to see results, but it does work. Caffeine and vitamin K2 also help clean up the liver.

Anything that boosts serotonin is a bad thing. Even if it helps in the short run, it will greatly harm you in the long run. The more you eliminate all serotonin increasing substances in your life, the better you will feel.

I am convinced that hot flashes are a blood sugar thing related to liver/glycogen depletion. I got hot flashes for a while before increasing my sugar intake. They are a thing of the past now. Just make sure you get enough sugar. Many of us are so used to restricting sugar intake that we think we are increasing it by a lot when in fact we are still getting too little.

I drink orange juice (no pulp, not from concentrate) in the morning, and Coke or Pepsi during the day. When I can remember to, I’ll put some sugar in milk. I also put salt in the milk, and sometimes even in the Coke. White sugar is cheap and easy to add to almost everything you drink, especially coffee. And sometimes I’ll make farmer’s cheese and put both salt and sugar on it and eat it while it’s warm. Unbelievably delicious.

I don’t bother to count grams anymore, as I’m pretty sure I am getting enough by the quality of my sleep.

I don’t know too much about the type of progesterone you are taking. Some substances are called progesterone but really are just estrogen that has been chemically tweaked. So it might be worth checking to make sure the progesterone you are currently taking is really progesterone.

That’s all I can think of right now. Except to mention that there are a lot of recipes for candy and the like here on the forum. You’ll be able to increase your sugar intake a lot that way.

Good luck.

 

[Corinne Harding]

Hi. Thanks for the note. Here is the best I can come up with in the time I have to write tonight:

I used to wake up at 4AM as well. I cured the problem with a big increase in good animal protein and enough good carbohydrates to balance the protein. As close as you can get to 100 grams of good animal protein and to 400 grams of good carbohydrates every day, the quicker you’ll find yourself sleeping through the night. It’s a liver not holding enough glycogen to get you through the night kind of thing, and so cortisol increases and wakes you up. It takes a few weeks to see results, but it does work. Caffeine and vitamin K2 also help clean up the liver.

Anything that boosts serotonin is a bad thing. Even if it helps in the short run, it will greatly harm you in the long run. The more you eliminate all serotonin increasing substances in your life, the better you will feel.

I am convinced that hot flashes are a blood sugar thing related to liver/glycogen depletion. I got hot flashes for a while before increasing my sugar intake. They are a thing of the past now. Just make sure you get enough sugar. Many of us are so used to restricting sugar intake that we think we are increasing it by a lot when in fact we are still getting too little.

I drink orange juice (no pulp, not from concentrate) in the morning, and Coke or Pepsi during the day. When I can remember to, I’ll put some sugar in milk. I also put salt in the milk, and sometimes even in the Coke. White sugar is cheap and easy to add to almost everything you drink, especially coffee. And sometimes I’ll make farmer’s cheese and put both salt and sugar on it and eat it while it’s warm. Unbelievably delicious.

I don’t bother to count grams anymore, as I’m pretty sure I am getting enough by the quality of my sleep.

I don’t know too much about the type of progesterone you are taking. Some substances are called progesterone but really are just estrogen that has been chemically tweaked. So it might be worth checking to make sure the progesterone you are currently taking is really progesterone.

That’s all I can think of right now. Except to mention that there are a lot of recipes for candy and the like here on the forum. You’ll be able to increase your sugar intake a lot that way.

Good luck.

Thanks getting back to me so quickly with all your advice and time...truly appreciated!

I did sleep much better last night after my sugary drink just before bedtime, less intensity and frequency of hot flashes ...thank you! I shall take onboard everything you have mentioned here and start putting into practice, the ratio of protein to good carbs etc.
The progestelle I am using has just 2 ingredients, coconut oil and progesterone, here is a link https://clearwoman.com/progestelle-progesterone-oil-more-pure-than-progesterone-cream/ .....I detoxed hopefully my 'xeno estrogens' at least in part for 2 months prior to starting the transition of just progesterone by using xenostat, XenoStat ™ | Premier Research Labs | Premier Research Labs | PRL So hopefully sugar and your help and advice will start completing the 'puzzle' of a safer and healthier, hormonal environment. I really hyped at getting it 'right' this time, thank you and this amazing forum and of course Ray Peat!!

 

[linda weir]

In my experiences, more progest-e can work but can also seem to release oestrogen into the blood stream and, if the liver is not working properly, cause symptoms that get blamed on the progesterone (water retention, bloating, weight gain etc) when in fact it's just liver overload and oestrogen playing havoc thereupon. Saying 'just' doesn't necessarily make it easy to fix and the plethora of supplements you are on may be working for, or against liver overload. Progest-e is useful but not a magic wand (there IS NO magic wand in my experience) and yes, as far as I can see, cortisol is a big player here, as is how the nervous system is functioning generally. So, upping your dose may help but not if you're getting other symptoms as a result. If so, perhaps consider how regular and un-irritated your bowel is; how regular your food intake is; measure your temp and pulse and get an idea of when you flush and if there is any reason to it. I have seen many cases of low blood sugar triggering hot flushes and this can even happen when someone has just fed depending on whether that fuel is readily available or calls upon insulin to work in which case blood sugar can be lowered further and voila, a flush occurs.
The posts of HDD, thebigpeatowski and further back, Peatarian may be of use to you in your research. Also the recent pod cast viewtopic.php?f=164&t=9058 #17 touches on all of this and the interaction between oestrogen (which you likely do have plenty of) and cortisol in a very helpful manner.
Good luck with your journey
Sheila

 

[linda weir]

FOR ME ,Progest-e has been a complete magic wand, no concerns whatever of my feminine health for 26 years, i m 68 now and take progest-e morning and night, not religiously but most often.it cleared my pmt and sailed through the menopause. and now my 60's i shall take it all my life. I trust Ray Peat's version even though in Britain it is £34 .i still have emotional problems as all do in life but i am like a rock - so far.

i have also cut out most sugar and bread and am struggling with a recent vegan diet,i have to have fish occassionally. i am concerned for animal welfare.i also take lots of vitamin c, Vitamin E mixed tocopherals and Vitamin b complex. and Organic food where possible,( harder in the uk)

thanks Ray Peat and all the doctors who wrote about natural progesterone.

 

[Zpol]

I'm presuming the warmer bed and increased glycogen stores and reduced estrogen helped prevent the wee hours spike in stress hormones.

I do all the things that @tara mentioned in the post above, however, the thing that helped the most was staying warm during the night. I don't have the electric blanket like she does but I put on wool socks and sometimes a hat when I go to bed and this truly does help. I still wear light leggings and a tank top as PJ's, otherwise I get too hot. Oh, and I don't take any aromatase inhibitors in the evening (aspirin and Estroban in particular), I think these were dropping estrogen too low and out of balance with progesterone. That last thing might be just me individually, I have 'normal' estrogen, just not enough progesterone to balance.
That said, I still get some moderate night sweating towards the end of my cycle (not severe like before though!). I've started drinking some Nettle tea infusion 2x per day, this herb balances hormones supposedly (adaptogenic).