Never Broken- sugarbabe's log

[InChristAlone]

How’s your zinc intake? Do you have panic attacks or anxiety often?

Zinc could be better but we eat meat everyday. I did just remember I had a small amount of zinc gluconate two days before the panic attack. I rarely ever supp zinc as I never felt well on it. I think it stirs things up and then with my sluggish liver probably just gets redistributed. The copper I mean. I think I screwed myself up on the Ray Peat diet all those yrs eating lots of chocolate, OJ, liver and fruit. I think cocoa, liver and tap water are our main big sources of copper and can cause way too much stimulation of the adrenals leading to burnout which I already experienced on the Ray Peat diet yrs ago. I healed focusing more on white starches, cheese and meats, but I'm going through a stressful period of my life and I think it's led to being higher in copper again. Estrogen can increase copper.

 

[aniciete]

Definitely try increasing meat like lamb or beef. I experienced the same sort of behavior and feelings eating high copper foods. Doubling my meat consumption has had a drastic impact on feeling grounded and resilient to stress. I think beef specifically, high in zinc and b6, could help lowered your stress load. For too long I fear mongered around the idea that eating too much meat would deplete my calcium or I had to have a 1:1 ratio of C:P or else everything would collapse. In reality, it made me emotionally unstable and want to isolate myself.

 

[InChristAlone]

Definitely try increasing meat like lamb or beef. I experienced the same sort of behavior and feelings eating high copper foods. Doubling my meat consumption has had a drastic impact on feeling grounded and resilient to stress. I think beef specifically, high in zinc and b6, could help lowered your stress load. For too long I fear mongered around the idea that eating too much meat would deplete my calcium or I had to have a 1:1 ratio of C:P or else everything would collapse. In reality, it made me emotionally unstable and want to isolate myself.

Yes I would like to be eating more meat. I digest steak the best but of course that is extremely expensive right now. I will try eating more of it and see how I do. Digestion is the main thing holding me back.

 

[InChristAlone]

So I had some relief of my adrenaline surges yesterday and I have no idea why because it came back again today. The only thing I did was use activated charcoal one morning when I accidentally ate something moldy but I think that had been at least 2 days. I did get more potassium the day before from bananas, and I started eating beans. I felt way more calm yesterday. I even slept til 5 without waking much. Then back to sleep til 8:45. I do notice the days I sleep in like that can set me up for a worse day. But I have no idea if that factored in. Today I'm having massive adrenaline surges after every meal. This is probably the worst it's ever been in that regard. Usually in the past I could somewhat calm it down with food. It's absolutely awful especially when I don't know if it's going to be that kind of day or not.

 

[youngsinatra]

So I had some relief of my adrenaline surges yesterday and I have no idea why because it came back again today. The only thing I did was use activated charcoal one morning when I accidentally ate something moldy but I think that had been at least 2 days. I did get more potassium the day before from bananas, and I started eating beans. I felt way more calm yesterday. I even slept til 5 without waking much. Then back to sleep til 8:45. I do notice the days I sleep in like that can set me up for a worse day. But I have no idea if that factored in. Today I'm having massive adrenaline surges after every meal. This is probably the worst it's ever been in that regard. Usually in the past I could somewhat calm it down with food. It's absolutely awful especially when I don't know if it's going to be that kind of day or not.

Food itself causes bile dumping and soluble fiber can trigger it‘s release too.
If the gall bladder is leaking out bile into the blood instead of the intestine, which it usually does in cholestasis, it can cause symptoms.

Getting bile in it‘s right track (gallbladder - intestine - bound up - fecal excretion) should be of primary importance. But it‘s not that easy.

Bovine Lactoferrin is strong stuff in that regards. I recommend using the dosing scheme of Dr. Smith which goes low & slow, which is hard to do for me as I am a „all in or nothing“ personality. But I really hurt myself by going all in on lactoferrin, as it strongly releases bile.

Wishing you all the best!

 

[InChristAlone]

Food itself causes bile dumping and soluble fiber can trigger it‘s release too.
If the gall bladder is leaking out bile into the blood instead of the intestine, which it usually does in cholestasis, it can cause symptoms.

Getting bile in it‘s right track (gallbladder - intestine - bound up - fecal excretion) should be of primary importance. But it‘s not that easy.

Bovine Lactoferrin is strong stuff in that regards. I recommend using the dosing scheme of Dr. Smith which goes low & slow, which is hard to do for me as I am a „all in or nothing“ personality. But I really hurt myself by going all in on lactoferrin, as it strongly releases bile.

Wishing you all the best!

Thank-you that explains why it's so much worse after a big meal of white rice and beans! Lol. I had considered maybe insulin though too. But doesn't explain everything especially when my blood sugar looks fine. This all started a week ago after lemonade which I know strongly releases bile then I took 1/4 tsp psyllium when it came on within 5-10 mins. Maybe it is the activated charcoal that gave some relief.

What are your symptoms when you go too far? Knowing what's happening would help to calm my anxiety. I did buy lactoferrin but too scared to try.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@sugarbabe do you still experience buttcrack?i never had it and i experienced the worst butt crack imaginable this year,it was either due to a certain milk or sun exposure,iam not sure yet

 

[InChristAlone]

@sugarbabe do you still experience buttcrack?i never had it and i experienced the worst butt crack imaginable this year,it was either due to a certain milk or sun exposure,iam not sure yet

Yeah, it's more of an inflammatory condition than anything, gets way worse at the end of my cycle and my skin will then peel after that. It's not jock itch.

 

[InChristAlone]

Cyproheptadine - the wonder drug. After experiencing two days of panic I decided I need to quit thinking about my health/diet/nutrition and just take the cypro for a while to get my nervous system to calm down and get lots of calories in. Also as a reset. It has always helped me with that. And sure enough I slept through the night woke up at 6:42 but went back to sleep until 9:15 I was so sedated I thought I might not be able to walk lol. My blood sugar was low. I got some juice and feeling much better and much brighter! Not feeling like I want to research health at all and wanting to eat whatever I crave today now worries at all. That's what freedom from fear is. No it won't get me perfect cholesterol but I won't have good cholesterol if I'm in a state of fear 24/7. That was surely horrible for my health. I think I'm admitting yet again I have an eating disorder. It was triggered again a couple weeks ago when I started watching Garrett Smith's videos again. Then I came on the forum when I had a panic attack thinking I need the health support. It's a lie, no one in the diet world can help me with fear of food other than people who have been too scared to eat and got through it by eating the food! Calories are King! No one heals on too low of calories whether they are beans or donuts. You can eat 4 donuts a day and still be starving. You can eat 4 cups of beans a day and still be starving and not in a good place. Ok I'm off to getting well yet again after crashing my nervous system with worry about my health.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@sugarbabe thats great that you feel better,and thats a great realisation you had specifically if it allowed to get rid of the fear or other negative feelings that were associated to these past weeks perspectives,i my self stop studying something if i feel that it will impact me to much to the point or worsening my well being

 

[Dolomite]

Cyproheptadine - the wonder drug. After experiencing two days of panic I decided I need to quit thinking about my health/diet/nutrition and just take the cypro for a while to get my nervous system to calm down and get lots of calories in. Also as a reset. It has always helped me with that. And sure enough I slept through the night woke up at 6:42 but went back to sleep until 9:15 I was so sedated I thought I might not be able to walk lol. My blood sugar was low. I got some juice and feeling much better and much brighter! Not feeling like I want to research health at all and wanting to eat whatever I crave today now worries at all. That's what freedom from fear is. No it won't get me perfect cholesterol but I won't have good cholesterol if I'm in a state of fear 24/7. That was surely horrible for my health. I think I'm admitting yet again I have an eating disorder. It was triggered again a couple weeks ago when I started watching Garrett Smith's videos again. Then I came on the forum when I had a panic attack thinking I need the health support. It's a lie, no one in the diet world can help me with fear of food other than people who have been too scared to eat and got through it by eating the food! Calories are King! No one heals on too low of calories whether they are beans or donuts. You can eat 4 donuts a day and still be starving. You can eat 4 cups of beans a day and still be starving and not in a good place. Ok I'm off to getting well yet again after crashing my nervous system with worry about my health.

I am glad you feel calmer. I have to say that all your research and what you write about it helps me. I don't spend the time researching. I do try things out what seems to make sense and your interest in the Karen Hurd bean protocol has helped me just in the last couple of weeks. So thank you for your efforts.
I wouldn't worry about your cholesterol. You are getting to the age of perimenopause whether it seems like it or not. I didn't know what I know now at that age and it only got worse for me. If you think that the beans will help you, I would try it. Having to take thyroid and other hormones the rest of your life is as bad as having to take any other pharmaceutical. All the suggestions on the forum about taking hormones seem crazy to me unless you are truly deficient. An addiction to coffee is one thing but if you can't function without endogenous hormones what happens when you aren't able to get them? The point of good health is to be able to take whatever is dished up mentally, physically or as food on a plate.

 

[InChristAlone]

@sugarbabe thats great that you feel better,and thats a great realisation you had specifically if it allowed to get rid of the fear or other negative feelings that were associated to these past weeks perspectives,i my self stop studying something if i feel that it will impact me to much to the point or worsening my well being

Thank-you.

I am glad you feel calmer. I have to say that all your research and what you write about it helps me. I don't spend the time researching. I do try things out what seems to make sense and your interest in the Karen Hurd bean protocol has helped me just in the last couple of weeks. So thank you for your efforts.
I wouldn't worry about your cholesterol. You are getting to the age of perimenopause whether it seems like it or not. I didn't know what I know now at that age and it only got worse for me. If you think that the beans will help you, I would try it. Having to take thyroid and other hormones the rest of your life is as bad as having to take any other pharmaceutical. All the suggestions on the forum about taking hormones seem crazy to me unless you are truly deficient. An addiction to coffee is one thing but if you can't function without endogenous hormones what happens when you aren't able to get them? The point of good health is to be able to take whatever is dished up mentally, physically or as food on a plate.

Glad what I've been sharing has helped you, I think the information is really good. It can really help people balance their hormones especially the overproducers. I am not going to abandon all of it just need to reset and start over with something very gentle for my system to adjust better to it. I avoided beans for most of 10 yrs! (Occasional fiber seemed okay) And not many veggies during that time either. Going to be like withdrawing from heroine for me lol. And yeah I agree needing to use hormones is a sign of something going wrong.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Zinc could be better but we eat meat everyday. I did just remember I had a small amount of zinc gluconate two days before the panic attack. I rarely ever supp zinc as I never felt well on it. I think it stirs things up and then with my sluggish liver probably just gets redistributed. The copper I mean. I think I screwed myself up on the Ray Peat diet all those yrs eating lots of chocolate, OJ, liver and fruit. I think cocoa, liver and tap water are our main big sources of copper and can cause way too much stimulation of the adrenals leading to burnout which I already experienced on the Ray Peat diet yrs ago. I healed focusing more on white starches, cheese and meats, but I'm going through a stressful period of my life and I think it's led to being higher in copper again. Estrogen can increase copper.

I was gonna ask if you take any zinc...I'm finding my requirements are quite high, even 50mg of picolinate most days is barely enough and I eat grassfed beef almost everyday. Supposedly adrenal stress / coffee deplete zinc aswell and i'm still drinking 2x coffees daily. Garrett Smith said almost everyone he tests is zinc deficient based on blood work. He also mentioned some people have trouble with even small amounts of zinc as it knocks copper out of the liver so they have to work their way up much slower.

 

[Ben.]

I was gonna ask if you take any zinc...I'm finding my requirements are quite high, even 50mg of picolinate most days is barely enough and I eat grassfed beef almost everyday. Supposedly adrenal stress / coffee deplete zinc aswell and i'm still drinking 2x coffees daily. Garrett Smith said almost everyone he tests is zinc deficient based on blood work. He also mentioned some people have trouble with even small amounts of zinc as it knocks copper out of the liver so they have to work their way up much slower.

How do you determine your requirements? Certain symptoms creeping up otherwise?

 

[redsun]

I was gonna ask if you take any zinc...I'm finding my requirements are quite high, even 50mg of picolinate most days is barely enough and I eat grassfed beef almost everyday. Supposedly adrenal stress / coffee deplete zinc aswell and i'm still drinking 2x coffees daily. Garrett Smith said almost everyone he tests is zinc deficient based on blood work. He also mentioned some people have trouble with even small amounts of zinc as it knocks copper out of the liver so they have to work their way up much slower.

You should try not taking picolinate form since research shows it seems to promote zinc excretion and excretion of other metals. Chris masterjohn has a video about this. Zinc gluconate is preferable and you shouldnt need that much zinc supplementation for long periods of time. 30-40mg is really the limit daily (from food and supps). High doses of zinc will deplete copper because of poor absorption of copper since it will get stuck in the gut bound to MT.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

How do you determine your requirements? Certain symptoms creeping up otherwise?

Lets just say I was taking 60mg daily for a while which was a sweet spot for ??? and other androgen/dopaminergic symptoms then thought I should try to taper off as I'm weary of overdoing it so dropped to 40mg and there was a decline over time.....then upped my dose to 50mg and back came the ??? so i'm gonna say I need more than what I was getting. I've been fairly stressed by my standards in the last week and under-slept so prob means demands are higher on top.

You should try not taking picolinate form since research shows it seems to promote zinc excretion and excretion of other metals. Chris masterjohn has a video about this. Zinc gluconate is preferable and you shouldnt need that much zinc supplementation for long periods of time. 30-40mg is really the limit daily (from food and supps). High doses of zinc will deplete copper because of poor absorption of copper since it will get stuck in the gut bound to MT.

I'm v weary of zinc supps I was taking bis-glycinate before picolinate, I might go back to it.

 

[InChristAlone]

Been doing much better lately. I decided to just eat whatever I wanted which included Chex mix, shredded cheese with some french dressing lol, swiss miss hot chocolate, and then my usual meat and starch for dinner. So here's the thing I didn't realize Chex mix has whole grains it's like the main ingredient but I was trying to ignore the ingredient list so I can get over my food fear so I didnt know it. I ended up having a severe IBS episode, was in and out of the bathroom with cramping for like 4 hours. I never have cramps unless I eat whole grains. But besides that I was actually doing really well. Mood was great, energy was good, ability to focus was amazing I spent an entire day researching never losing my ability to focus no distractions. And I think that was the day I had just ovulated so estrogen was high. I had just read that during ovulation MAOA is slower meaning more dopamine and noradrenaline in the brain so higher mood. So as progesterone increases, MAOA speeds up leading to less noradrenaline and more depressed mood low motivation and low energy. It explains what so many women are going through! So since I have been dealing with panic disorder for about 5 months (no panic attacks in a few weeks since I've been on cypro) I also saw that taking MAOA inhibitors cures panic attacks and it doesn't make sense to me, I thought high adrenaline causes panic, so why would having more noradrenaline in the brain lead to way less anxiety? I am still trying to figure this out hence the researching. Cypro definitely helps me with anxiety which blocks serotonin but it also decreases cortisol and I think high cortisol causes massive anxiety for me. But now I'm learning that depressed mood is from speedy MAOA. And those with a rare problem where they don't convert dopamine into noradrenaline they get postural orthostatic hypotension, low blood pressure, and hypoglycemia. Noradrenaline is necessary against these things. So could explain the fatigue for women with speedy MAOA they have less noradrenaline. Testosterone also speeds up MAOA and I think I have a bit of PCOS or rather higher androgens than some women. Another reason cypro is effective for me. And now I'm realizing maybe having some more whole grains in my diet is a good thing but the cramping is nearly unbearable. Like child birth painful. So I don't know. Many things I'm figuring out.

 

[redsun]

Been doing much better lately. I decided to just eat whatever I wanted which included Chex mix, shredded cheese with some french dressing lol, swiss miss hot chocolate, and then my usual meat and starch for dinner. So here's the thing I didn't realize Chex mix has whole grains it's like the main ingredient but I was trying to ignore the ingredient list so I can get over my food fear so I didnt know it. I ended up having a severe IBS episode, was in and out of the bathroom with cramping for like 4 hours. I never have cramps unless I eat whole grains. But besides that I was actually doing really well. Mood was great, energy was good, ability to focus was amazing I spent an entire day researching never losing my ability to focus no distractions. And I think that was the day I had just ovulated so estrogen was high. I had just read that during ovulation MAOA is slower meaning more dopamine and noradrenaline in the brain so higher mood. So as progesterone increases, MAOA speeds up leading to less noradrenaline and more depressed mood low motivation and low energy. It explains what so many women are going through! So since I have been dealing with panic disorder for about 5 months (no panic attacks in a few weeks since I've been on cypro) I also saw that taking MAOA inhibitors cures panic attacks and it doesn't make sense to me, I thought high adrenaline causes panic, so why would having more noradrenaline in the brain lead to way less anxiety? I am still trying to figure this out hence the researching. Cypro definitely helps me with anxiety which blocks serotonin but it also decreases cortisol and I think high cortisol causes massive anxiety for me. But now I'm learning that depressed mood is from speedy MAOA. And those with a rare problem where they don't convert dopamine into noradrenaline they get postural orthostatic hypotension, low blood pressure, and hypoglycemia. Noradrenaline is necessary against these things. So could explain the fatigue for women with speedy MAOA they have less noradrenaline. Testosterone also speeds up MAOA and I think I have a bit of PCOS or rather higher androgens than some women. Another reason cypro is effective for me. And now I'm realizing maybe having some more whole grains in my diet is a good thing but the cramping is nearly unbearable. Like child birth painful. So I don't know. Many things I'm figuring out.

MAO-A is the only thing that breaks down serotonin by the way. Noradrenaline is mood elevating. But serotonin elevation would not as beneficial. Women have more dopamine due to estrogen reducing COMT, so likely an estrogen spike would further elevate dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. Estrogen does seem to inhibit both MAOs to some degree as well. Less break down of monoamines important for mood. But estradiol may also increase SERT transporters which take serotonin out of the synapse, somewhat reducing the serotonin elevating effect of inhibiting MAO-A. Its mainly MAO-B that breaks degrades brain dopamine.

Manganese seems to have MAO inhibiting effects based on studies on rats. Chronically poor copper and iron status may lead to low MAO-A as well. A more real possibility is excess build up of iron in the brain raising MAO-B activity excessively, contributing to disorders related to low dopamine such as parkinsons. Iron-chelating treatments appear to be helpful for parkinsons for example.

 

[InChristAlone]

MAO-A is the only thing that breaks down serotonin by the way. Noradrenaline is mood elevating. But serotonin elevation would not as beneficial. Women have more dopamine due to estrogen reducing COMT, so likely an estrogen spike would further elevate dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. Estrogen does seem to inhibit both MAOs to some degree as well. Less break down of monoamines important for mood. But estradiol may also increase SERT transporters which take serotonin out of the synapse, somewhat reducing the serotonin elevating effect of inhibiting MAO-A. Its mainly MAO-B that breaks degrades brain dopamine.

Manganese seems to have MAO inhibiting effects based on studies on rats. Chronically poor copper and iron status may lead to low MAO-A as well. A more real possibility is excess build up of iron in the brain raising MAO-B activity excessively, contributing to disorders related to low dopamine such as parkinsons. Iron-chelating treatments appear to be helpful for parkinsons for example.

Interesting yeah I'm finally figuring out neurotransmitters and things like that. I avoided it for so long because it's so complex but things are finally clicking.

I'm realizing that using progesterone is not a panacea and why I stopped using it back a few yrs ago. Low estrogen does feel like absolute crap. Maybe those who use some progesterone are actually just pushing out stored estrogen thus they aren't feeling good from progesterone as that causes fatigue, but they are feeling the estrogen as it comes out or they had been so anxious they get some relief via it's anesthesia effects. Right before my cycle starts I'd be more depressed more hopeless and have night sweats. Not always, it depends on how my cycle went. I know I ovulated this cycle (huge jump in body temp) so we will see how this period goes. But as the days progress I am feeling less motivated and more fatigued, not wanting to do anything. Kinda like how pregnancy feels lol. I guess that's why Peat says estrogen makes women act crazy. It actually helps noradrenaline stick around!

Methylene Blue is a MAO-A inhibitor I've thought of trying it out again. Doses of more than 20 mg a day have been used for mental illness. I don't feel mentally ill anymore, I just know there is something up hormonally that I kinda refuse to treat via hormone replacement therapy.

 

[InChristAlone]

MAO-A is the only thing that breaks down serotonin by the way. Noradrenaline is mood elevating. But serotonin elevation would not as beneficial. Women have more dopamine due to estrogen reducing COMT, so likely an estrogen spike would further elevate dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. Estrogen does seem to inhibit both MAOs to some degree as well. Less break down of monoamines important for mood. But estradiol may also increase SERT transporters which take serotonin out of the synapse, somewhat reducing the serotonin elevating effect of inhibiting MAO-A. Its mainly MAO-B that breaks degrades brain dopamine.

Manganese seems to have MAO inhibiting effects based on studies on rats. Chronically poor copper and iron status may lead to low MAO-A as well. A more real possibility is excess build up of iron in the brain raising MAO-B activity excessively, contributing to disorders related to low dopamine such as parkinsons. Iron-chelating treatments appear to be helpful for parkinsons for example.

Newer research shows it is mainly MAO-A that degrades dopamine. MOA-B controls tonic GABA levels.