Never Broken- sugarbabe's log

redsun

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Wow I think you may be right. This is like extreme hunger. I felt like I could eat 50 grams of protein easily. But I don't give in to it or don't cook enough meat. I need to just let go and eat what my body is asking for. Although it definitely wasn't asking for it yesterday I had a lot of bloating and felt sick to my stomach most of the day. It was only after the niacin I felt starving. I think I need to go with it, use vitamins to boost appetite for protein so I can fully recover. I had been undereating most of the yr due to stress.
Yes if you feel like you can chomp down more protein then usual that's your body's subtle cues that it wants it. Yeh its really hard to recover, basically impossible when appetite is poor or all over to place. Especially if appetite for proteins are low which is often due to weak digestive secretions, low salt intake and dehydration.

The benefit of the protein hunger is you don't have to worry about gaining excess body fat as protein is not really turned into body fat. If the body craves protein, its going to put it to good use.
 
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InChristAlone

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Yes if you feel like you can chomp down more protein then usual that's your body's subtle cues that it wants it. Yeh its really hard to recover, basically impossible when appetite is poor or all over to place. Especially if appetite for proteins are low which is often due to weak digestive secretions, low salt intake and dehydration.

The benefit of the protein hunger is you don't have to worry about gaining excess body fat as protein is not really turned into body fat. If the body craves protein, its going to put it to good use.
Yeah it felt impossible based on my appetite. But I have a lot of hope now,that even if I have to suffer thru some more blood sugar lows from the b vitamins at least now I can eat all the meat I want!
 
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InChristAlone

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Merry Christmas everyone! Here is a photo of a rack of bananas I have ripening in my yard.
IMG_20211129_143622870-EFFECTS.jpg
 
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InChristAlone

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New observations!

The holidays went way better than I could have expected. Barely any anxiety and adrenaline was way better. The foods I was eating different were the frosted sugar cookies we made on Christmas Eve and then ham and cheesy texas potatoes on Christmas and my Mom gave me the left overs so I was eating that the last couple of days. The first day I ate it for breakfast and lunch! And then the next day for breakfast and had an amazing day very productive with little anxiety. I was really surprised because potatoes typically cause serotonin like symptoms not to mention all the fat in them. But I am still taking the cypro every night. Last night had an epic dream too. So here's the negative.. went back to my usual breakfast of one banana (still had the banana the other days too), grape juice, two pieces of toast with jelly, and 3 eggs and had adrenaline for at least 15 minutes afterwards. I was like well that's interesting, my mood is great and yet I'm getting the adrenaline. It has got to be blood sugar! 3 eggs is quite a lot of immediately digestible protein, which is why Peat always cautions getting enough carbs with them. Now I want to eat ham and cheesy potatoes every morning! lol
 
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youngsinatra

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New observations!

The holidays went way better than I could have expected. Barely any anxiety and adrenaline was way better. The foods I was eating different were the frosted sugar cookies we made on Christmas Eve and then ham and cheesy texas potatoes on Christmas and my Mom gave me the left overs so I was eating that the last couple of days. The first day I ate it for breakfast and lunch! And then the next day for breakfast and had an amazing day very productive with little anxiety. I was really surprised because potatoes typically cause serotonin like symptoms not to mention all the fat in them. But I am still taking the cypro every night. Last night had an epic dream too. So here's the negative.. went back to my usual breakfast of one banana (still had the banana the other days too), grape juice, two pieces of toast with jelly, and 3 eggs and had adrenaline for at least 15 minutes afterwards. I was like well that's interesting, my mood is great and yet I'm getting the adrenaline. It has got to be blood sugar! 3 eggs is quite a lot of immediately digestible protein, which is why Peat always cautions getting enough carbs with them. Now I want to eat ham and cheesy potatoes every morning! lol
Do you have this reaction with other protein sources as well? I am asking because I had a pretty similar experience with eggs consumption - they just don‘t work well for me. I get shortness of breath, fast heart beat, dizzy, chest tightness and anxiety after eating a 3-4 whole eggs.

I just dropped the eggs altogether, although I tried so many times to re-introduce them to my diet because they have unique nutrients in them. But I just feel inflamed after eating them, I get rheumatic pains in my fingers too when I eat them, even though I never have this pain with other foods except gluten. (I have celiac)

I can handle 50g of protein from lean beef in a sitting with no problem, so it may not be the protein that‘s causing you symptoms - you may be sensitive to eggs.
 
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InChristAlone

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Do you have this reaction with other protein sources as well? I am asking because I had a pretty similar experience with eggs consumption - they just don‘t work well for me. I get shortness of breath, fast heart beat, dizzy, chest tightness and anxiety after eating a 3-4 whole eggs.

I just dropped the eggs altogether, although I tried so many times to re-introduce them to my diet because they have unique nutrients in them. But I just feel inflamed after eating them, I get rheumatic pains in my fingers too when I eat them, even though I never have this pain with other foods except gluten. (I have celiac)

I can handle 50g of protein from lean beef in a sitting with no problem, so it may not be the protein that‘s causing you symptoms - you may be sensitive to eggs.
Yeah it's very possible I'm sensitive to eggs. This post-breakfast adrenaline has happened to me even when I wasn't eating eggs, but maybe I was eating something else I was sensitive to back then. The potatoes actually were causing some more pain in my fingers I always attributed that to them being nightshades.
 

redsun

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Yeah it's very possible I'm sensitive to eggs. This post-breakfast adrenaline has happened to me even when I wasn't eating eggs, but maybe I was eating something else I was sensitive to back then. The potatoes actually were causing some more pain in my fingers I always attributed that to them being nightshades.
Do you eat potatoes every day?
 
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InChristAlone

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InChristAlone

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While the North is going to have their first blast of arctic air we are having a heat wave down in the deep south. I spent like 20 mins outside and had to come inside and lay down I get so weak feeling. All my blood vessels dilate and my heart rate goes way up. I definitely struggle with lowish blood pressure when it's hot like this. I think that's why Peat didn't like this kind of weather. For those of us on a pro metabolic diet with heart rate of 85, heat can make it 100+. Not complaining though because I can go to the beach in January and grow tropical plants.

On the nutrition front I decided to do a small amount of ham in 2 eggs for breakfast along with a large banana and 6 oz of grape juice. That worked pretty good. I still have hypersensitivity to adrenaline but I didn't have the huge increase after that. I ate two chocolate covered strawberries this morning too and definitely felt jittery! Lol that is like such a small amount of chocolate. I can't even imagine how I'd respond to coffee right now. Probably clean the whole house and then crash. So I guess I should just be thankful for energy even if it's a jittery energy because I can't just take that away immediately. My nerves have to become desensitized again. I'm sleeping like 9 hours a night so I am recovering from it thankfully.
 

redsun

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While the North is going to have their first blast of arctic air we are having a heat wave down in the deep south. I spent like 20 mins outside and had to come inside and lay down I get so weak feeling. All my blood vessels dilate and my heart rate goes way up. I definitely struggle with lowish blood pressure when it's hot like this. I think that's why Peat didn't like this kind of weather. For those of us on a pro metabolic diet with heart rate of 85, heat can make it 100+. Not complaining though because I can go to the beach in January and grow tropical plants.

On the nutrition front I decided to do a small amount of ham in 2 eggs for breakfast along with a large banana and 6 oz of grape juice. That worked pretty good. I still have hypersensitivity to adrenaline but I didn't have the huge increase after that. I ate two chocolate covered strawberries this morning too and definitely felt jittery! Lol that is like such a small amount of chocolate. I can't even imagine how I'd respond to coffee right now. Probably clean the whole house and then crash. So I guess I should just be thankful for energy even if it's a jittery energy because I can't just take that away immediately. My nerves have to become desensitized again. I'm sleeping like 9 hours a night so I am recovering from it thankfully.
Calcium can effectively reduce adrenaline and jitteryness. Low calcium leads to excessive sodium channel activity which is very excitatory and leads to constant fight or flight reactions. I had this issue once in the past from high vitamin A intake (strongly increases calcium loss) and chronic low intake of calcium in my diet. Do you get around 1g of calcium or more from an absorbable form like dairy? If not I would try to do this or supplement calcium citrate. This worked for adrenaline almost immediately the first time I had a significant source of calcium from cheese. Within about 2 hours of having 2 oz of higher calcium cheese (600mg calcium), the adrenaline reaction stopped. This may be what you need if you don't currently get much absorbable calcium.
 
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InChristAlone

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Calcium can effectively reduce adrenaline and jitteryness. Low calcium leads to excessive sodium channel activity which is very excitatory and leads to constant fight or flight reactions. I had this issue once in the past from high vitamin A intake (strongly increases calcium loss) and chronic low intake of calcium in my diet. Do you get around 1g of calcium or more from an absorbable form like dairy? If not I would try to do this or supplement calcium citrate. This worked for adrenaline almost immediately the first time I had a significant source of calcium from cheese. Within about 2 hours of having 2 oz of higher calcium cheese (600mg calcium), the adrenaline reaction stopped. This may be what you need if you don't currently get much absorbable calcium.
Lately I've been getting 1 gram a day from cheese, but leading up to that day I had a 3 hour long panic attack I hadn't been eating much cheese. I don't drink milk nor eat greens so I have to eat cheese or supplement. I do get UVB exposure yr round so I figured any vitamin A I get from food would be offset as I don't typically eat over 3,000 IU's a day. I wonder if vitamin D can mess with calcium as well? I also wonder if my daily mag oil habit could be a factor. I have been doing about a dime sized amount of mag lotion every night on my TMJ muscles before bed because prior to starting that I could barely chew without severe pain my muscles were in such a spasm I believe from clenching at night. I am afraid to stop doing it, but I do wonder if I'm getting too much magnesium. Last time I had such bad panic back in 2016 I had been doing epsom salt baths quite frequently and I decided to stop doing them after having a panic attack after one of them. On my hair test in 2015 my magnesium was sky high. Last time this all happened I recovered with gouda cheese. I was eating a lot, like 2-3 ounces a day. So I will definitely continue with the cheese.
 

redsun

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Lately I've been getting 1 gram a day from cheese, but leading up to that day I had a 3 hour long panic attack I hadn't been eating much cheese. I don't drink milk nor eat greens so I have to eat cheese or supplement. I do get UVB exposure yr round so I figured any vitamin A I get from food would be offset as I don't typically eat over 3,000 IU's a day. I wonder if vitamin D can mess with calcium as well? I also wonder if my daily mag oil habit could be a factor. I have been doing about a dime sized amount of mag lotion every night on my TMJ muscles before bed because prior to starting that I could barely chew without severe pain my muscles were in such a spasm I believe from clenching at night. I am afraid to stop doing it, but I do wonder if I'm getting too much magnesium. Last time I had such bad panic back in 2016 I had been doing epsom salt baths quite frequently and I decided to stop doing them after having a panic attack after one of them. On my hair test in 2015 my magnesium was sky high. Last time this all happened I recovered with gouda cheese. I was eating a lot, like 2-3 ounces a day. So I will definitely continue with the cheese.
Magnesium could be antagonizing calcium too much. This could be a problem. But this would be with supplementing a lot of magnesium orally and epsom salt would also do it as you may absorb a lot through skin if you do it frequently enough. I dont know how Mg you would get from that lotion but I doubt that would be enough on its own.
 
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InChristAlone

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Magnesium could be antagonizing calcium too much. This could be a problem. But this would be with supplementing a lot of magnesium orally and epsom salt would also do it as you may absorb a lot through skin if you do it frequently enough. I dont know how Mg you would get from that lotion but I doubt that would be enough on its own.
Yeah it's probably not enough on it's own.
 
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InChristAlone

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So I have been trying to minimize wheat last couple of days because I'm paranoid that it could be causing more of the adrenaline reactions and so far hadn't had any until this evening I had chipotle soft shell tacos and am having adrenaline now about an hour later. My calories did get too low, but I have been eating way more protein than in yrs! 100 grams yesterday (and slept terrible) 90 today. Refined starches seem to cause the reactive hypoglycemia as it happened before from white rice as well. So frustrating! I get so paralyzed by what to eat to avoid adrenaline. Maybe I can't avoid it in recovery.

I've been reading everything I can about acetylcholine today and I am really leaning towards that I an supersensitive to it. I had been having extremely vivid annoying dreams which I know is a result of excess acetylcholine (even on cypro whivh is anticholinergic). I tend to ruminate on negative events in my life sometimes so excessively I get intrusive thoughts. According to Han's article: "Could contribute to cold hands and feet, since it increases adrenaline secretion through nicotinic receptor activation." The high acetylcholine syndrome » MENELITE which is concerning to me as I have struggled with feeling cold for most of my adult life! He also said it reduces thirst and I'm like never thirsty especially when I'm feeling like this I don't even want to take one sip of something. Says dopamine agonists can help, Yesterday I had a great day after the jitteriness from the chocolate calmed down and I actually got a libido back, I wonder if chocolate could help me while I'm using cypro to sedate me. Betain and folate make it worse... hm... is that why I had a panic attack on Wednesday after eating a big bowl of pasta? That used to help me, but lately it seems wheat is a problem. Maybe I do need to avoid it. One major thing that I started doing differently this past year is eating eggs every day. I wonder if I just now have too much cholinergic activity.

Thyroid was fine today too. 98.6 and 85 pulse. 100/68 BP though.
 
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InChristAlone

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Day 29 of cycle, was hoping it would start today as sleeping took a turn with night sweats. But honestly I think most of my issue is not eating enough. I focused on getting protein and then let carbs and fats go by the way side. Not a good idea, lots of anxiety and shakiness, so I decided to make the cheesy potatoes today and also sugar cookies because I did SO WELL eating fatty foods! If that's what I need to heal I don't care if I gain 10 lbs. It is absolute hell for me to undereat. I had gotten down to 1500-1600 calories again focusing on protein. That is absolutely orthorexia and I need to focus on recovery.
 
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InChristAlone

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Day 1 started bleeding. Thank God because the rollercoaster of hormones is really difficult. Just had another anxiety attack. I won't call it panic because I didn't necessarily panic but it almost got me yet again. Fear of fear. Worst of all fears because you can't get away from your own body. At least fear of certain places or certain circumstances you could avoid if you wanted to. Fear of fear is probably the worst mental illness because you feel like you are in hell and can't escape. Then right at the moment you can't take it anymore you finally let go and accept that it's happening, then it finally calms down. But when it happens again, when the adrenaline is triggered, all of the fear comes back with the same intensity and you have to do the same process of letting go just as much before. The letting go during a panic attack can seem impossible and takes practice. At least I'm getting lots of practice. As that is the only thing that will cure me. It's hard to accept that it's me causing it. My inability to fully completely accept the adrenaline rush and all the symptoms. I have to tell my brain it's no big deal, that it can do all the things it always does every time- the racing heart, the tightness in my chest, the shallow breathing, the shakiness, the need to run away and I can still say "whatever, get as bad as you want anxiety, it doesn't mean anything to me anymore".

Everytime it happens I get tricked in to thinking there's something seriously wrong with me. This forum kinda puts me into that mindset. That we are all ill and need fixing. It goes right alongside a nervous illness. Yes we can heal and get better with certain things but this mindset that there is something seriously wrong is at the root of my nervous illness. There isn't. I just need recovery. I was up in my head worrying about stuff for months before this illness came on. Panic is the warning signal we are overthinking and worrying to the point our brain thinks we are in danger. And ever since I quit Facebook back in July 2021 I have spent increasing amounts of time here to get some semblance of a community. But I see so much mental illness here. Just today someone asking if he should panic that he's got the 'rona. I think I have all the warning signs I need to take a break. Health crisis is one of my triggers so I just need to give it a rest. This is sounding more like my personal journal but maybe it will help someone else caught in the same trap.
 

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I got those adrenaline rushes when I was stressed out because my mother was going to die, I had taken a supervisory position and I was underweight, not eating enough and drinking lots of coffee. I was also taking melatonin. Well, I started reading Ray Peat again and dropped the melatonin and cut back on the coffee. I figured it was all estrogen related but mostly it was not eating enough carbohydrates. The thing that has helped me the most is eating something starchy about every 3 hours like Katarina Dalton suggests to get progesterone working. I eat gluten free pretzels at least twice a day and potatoes or rice with the three meals. I know starch isn't really what Peat recommends but it sure has helped me.

I plan my snacks and don't let myself get hungry. Kids need that, too. Adult men can eat enough in one sitting to get by for longer periods.

Earlier you mentioned having trouble with magnesium. Someone on the forum said they mixed magnesium oil and MCT oil to use on their body. I tried that and boy, that was a mistake. I had way too much adrenaline. I had to take a bath to wash it off. Later I tried heating some cocoa butter to use as moisturizer and that too, was a big mistake. Those oils seem to trigger adrenaline for me perhaps because the cells use up too much sugar too quickly. I don't know. Magnesium glycinate tablets and epsom salt foot baths don't cause that.
 
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InChristAlone

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I got those adrenaline rushes when I was stressed out because my mother was going to die, I had taken a supervisory position and I was underweight, not eating enough and drinking lots of coffee. I was also taking melatonin. Well, I started reading Ray Peat again and dropped the melatonin and cut back on the coffee. I figured it was all estrogen related but mostly it was not eating enough carbohydrates. The thing that has helped me the most is eating something starchy about every 3 hours like Katarina Dalton suggests to get progesterone working. I eat gluten free pretzels at least twice a day and potatoes or rice with the three meals. I know starch isn't really what Peat recommends but it sure has helped me.

I plan my snacks and don't let myself get hungry. Kids need that, too. Adult men can eat enough in one sitting to get by for longer periods.

Earlier you mentioned having trouble with magnesium. Someone on the forum said they mixed magnesium oil and MCT oil to use on their body. I tried that and boy, that was a mistake. I had way too much adrenaline. I had to take a bath to wash it off. Later I tried heating some cocoa butter to use as moisturizer and that too, was a big mistake. Those oils seem to trigger adrenaline for me perhaps because the cells use up too much sugar too quickly. I don't know. Magnesium glycinate tablets and epsom salt foot baths don't cause that.
Yes undereating for me is a disaster, I am so sensitive to adrenaline that it just makes my nerves so bad. I have to plan out what I'm going to eat better or force myself to eat on a schedule.

I haven't had any reactions to magnesium right after putting it on maybe a little because I'm so sensitive to blood sugar fluctuations but I am going to see about using less and less. Just want to rule out any external sources for it. But mainly I think you nailed it that it's the undereating.
 

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Yes undereating for me is a disaster, I am so sensitive to adrenaline that it just makes my nerves so bad. I have to plan out what I'm going to eat better or force myself to eat on a schedule.

I haven't had any reactions to magnesium right after putting it on maybe a little because I'm so sensitive to blood sugar fluctuations but I am going to see about using less and less. Just want to rule out any external sources for it. But mainly I think you nailed it that it's the undereating.
Here is the post I am referring to about Katharina Dalton:

Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

I think it makes a lot of sense.
 
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InChristAlone

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Here is the post I am referring to about Katharina Dalton:

Katharina Dalton: The Dietary "musts" For Improving Progesterone (Hint: No Low Carb, No Starvation)

I think it makes a lot of sense.
Thanks, such a key thing is keeping blood glucose stable, she is absolutely right! And for me when I'm in a stressed state it's less than 3 hours.

So I'm having a much better day after finally getting lots of calorie rich foods yesterday. I ended up eating 100 grams of fat and almost 300 grams of carbs but pretty low in protein. Adrenaline really makes me not able to focus on what's important. So I can understand why some people never get better, they can only think of things that are wrong they can't consider what a good path to get out of it is.
 

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