Neither soy nor isoflavone intake affects male reproductive hormones: An expanded and updated meta-analysis of clinical studies

[GreekDemiGod]

Highlights​

•
Soy is a uniquely rich source of isoflavones, compounds classified as phytoestrogens.
•
Concerns have been raised that because it contains isoflavones, soy feminizes men.
•
Clinical data were analyzed to examine effects of soy/isoflavones on hormone levels.
•
38 clinical studies were deemed suitable for inclusion in the meta-analysis.
•
No effects of soy/isoflavones on testosterone or estrogen levels in men were noted.

Neither soy nor isoflavone intake affects male reproductive hormones: An expanded and updated meta-analysis of clinical studies

Concerns that the phytoestrogens (isoflavones) in soy may feminize men continue to be raised. Several studies and case-reports describing feminizing e…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[opethfeldt]

Given that they're phytoestrogens, would they even show up on a blood test? Forgive me if that's a dumb question. I'm not that familiar with how phytoestrogens work in terms of blood tests. In regards to their feminizing effect, I think the explanation is that they're significantly weaker than endogenous estrogen and thus, can compete with endogenous estrogen for binding and have an anti estrogenic effect in practice.

 

[InChristAlone]

Given that they're phytoestrogens, would they even show up on a blood test? Forgive me if that's a dumb question. I'm not that familiar with how phytoestrogens work in terms of blood tests. In regards to their feminizing effect, I think the explanation is that they're significantly weaker than endogenous estrogen and thus, can compete with endogenous estrogen for binding and have an anti estrogenic effect in practice.

Yes this is why they are harmful actually because the body think it doesn't need to produce them.

 

[Razvan]

Soy milk ,the perfect food.

 

[CiggyTardust]

Lol... I WRECKED my health consuming lots of soymilk and soy products during a brief stint of vegetarianism (18 months or so). It made me hypothyroid, teeth cracking, anxious, hair falling out... at 20 years old. Are you seriously arguing for people to eat this toxic filth?

 

[Dr. B]

Highlights​

•
Soy is a uniquely rich source of isoflavones, compounds classified as phytoestrogens.
•
Concerns have been raised that because it contains isoflavones, soy feminizes men.
•
Clinical data were analyzed to examine effects of soy/isoflavones on hormone levels.
•
38 clinical studies were deemed suitable for inclusion in the meta-analysis.
•
No effects of soy/isoflavones on testosterone or estrogen levels in men were noted.

Neither soy nor isoflavone intake affects male reproductive hormones: An expanded and updated meta-analysis of clinical studies

Concerns that the phytoestrogens (isoflavones) in soy may feminize men continue to be raised. Several studies and case-reports describing feminizing e…

www.sciencedirect.com

Lol... I WRECKED my health consuming lots of soymilk and soy products during a brief stint of vegetarianism (18 months or so). It made me hypothyroid, teeth cracking, anxious, hair falling out... at 20 years old. Are you seriously arguing for people to eat this toxic filth?

do you think soy protein isolate, due to the refining process becomes safer or loses some estrogens? i used to eat those zone protein bars which used soy protein isolate. i didnt seem to get noticeable side effects the way youd get from eating a bunch of french fries fried in soybean oil for instance
ive heard soy sauce and all the fermented soy foods lose more estrogens the more theyre fermented

 

[JKX]

Natural Estrogens

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Its not the stress...its the reaction to the stress. Its not the food, its the reaction to the food.

 

[Vanset]

in general i tend to respect a plants primary defensive mechanism. sure, i see no problems in eating food with small amount of phytoestrogens present, from foods that use different means as their primary defensive mechanism, but soy has specifically developed those huge amount as it's defense, no? better to stay away or small amounts every once in a while

 

[CiggyTardust]

I'm convinced from what I've read and from personal experience that soy should be avoided. It's a potent goitrogen (thyroid suppressing food) which from a Peat perspective should be avoided completely. Traditional consumption processed the food to mitigate the effects of anti-nutrients through fermentation, i.e. stinky tofu or natto. Unprocessed I would never touch again.

 

[Dr. B]

I'm convinced from what I've read and from personal experience that soy should be avoided. It's a potent goitrogen (thyroid suppressing food) which from a Peat perspective should be avoided completely. Traditional consumption processed the food to mitigate the effects of anti-nutrients through fermentation, i.e. stinky tofu or natto. Unprocessed I would never touch again.

what are some other foods where processing actually improves and makes them safer?
ive heard this with ghee
coconut oil
refined salt instead of sea salt/pink salt?
nixtamalized corn tortillas
starches in general, vegetables/roots in general

 

[CiggyTardust]

what are some other foods where processing actually improves and makes them safer?
ive heard this with ghee
coconut oil
refined salt instead of sea salt/pink salt?
nixtamalized corn tortillas
starches in general, vegetables/roots in general

Those are great examples. I'd typically just look at how foods are traditionally prepared/processed and stick with that. There is plenty of wisdom in ancestral diets and the science always ends up supporting what people figured out over many generations.

 

[Risingfire]

Another study by the lead author.

[PDF] No Difference Between the Effects of Supplementing With Soy Protein Versus Animal Protein on Gains in Muscle Mass and Strength in Response to Resistance Exercise. | Semantic Scholar

The results of this meta-analysis indicate that soy protein supplementation produces similar gains in strength and LBM in response to RET as whey protein. Much attention has been given to determining the influence of total protein intake and protein source on gains in lean body mass (LBM) and...

www.semanticscholar.org

I can't take what she says as serious

 

[Gustav3Y]

Why would not people expect more soy and pea protein positive studies to appear considering that even Hollywood actors and directors have actual stock shares in various products made from these.
I am not sure if you follow these Hollywood people but they sometimes even admit to it.

 

[Wagner83]

I wonder if I'm the only one who noticed this : eating soy sauce (tamari or whatever) turns me into a crying over emotional man for a brief period of time. I repeated the experiment enough times to confirm.

 

[CiggyTardust]

I wonder if I'm the only one who noticed this : eating soy sauce (tamari or whatever) turns me into a crying over emotional man for a brief period of time. I repeated the experiment enough times to confirm.

I find it pretty funny that you'd blame soy sauce for this

 

[Rasaari]

1: A lot of studies are just fraudulent. Especially when theres financial interest in doing so (fish oil, estrogen, climate change, vaccines...)

2: Aren't "phyto" estrogen, progesterones and stuff suppose to trigger the so called receptors instead of changing blood levels. To quote the study "The preference of isoflavones for ERβ is the primary reason that isoflavones are seen as capable of having tissue-selective effects and the reason they are often classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) [[26], [27], [28], [29], [30]]."
Although many of these actions should reflect in the blood levels at least a little in the downstream, agonizing estrogen in the brain, testes etc. should have an anti androgen effect.

 

[Wagner83]

@CiggyTardust Same here! But I like the taste and it happened every time.