Need Some Help Maxing Out Dopamine, Lowering Estrogens? New Here

[Deleted member 5487]

I relatively new here and am interested in learning all the tricks and tips that ray peat has to offer when it comes to maxing out Testesterone, Lowering/Blocking Estrogen, and increasing dopamine. I am 21 year old male with a long history of exercise and destroyed alot of my health going low carb for like 8 months.

1)I am already consuming pregnenolone at 10mg(which in three days has made my skin almost freakishly clear)
2)I am drinking carrots blended in a blender
3)I upped my sugar 5 fold and am consuming orange juice, (though my nose/mucus has began to mess up which may be due to Orange juice or diary, probably the latter?).
4)Consuming plenty of caffeine.

I believe I have some dopamine issues as I can barely feel my caffeine. However today before a workout I drank some L-Dopa and NALT and I haven't felt that good in a long time, my muscles were hard and it made me feel like I did in high school, almost unlimited energy.

What is the general cause of anxiety? High serotonin if that is the case I have issues with it.

Any advice is welcome.
Thanks

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

For estrogen:

Vitamins b1 and b2
Vitamins B1 & B2 Are Required For Estrogen Inactivation By Liver

Vitamin k2
Vitamin K2 directly inhibits new estrogen synthesis

Vitamin E
Vitamin E (tocopherol) Is A Potent Aromatase Inhibitor

Aspirin
Aspirin Decreases Cortisol And Increases Testosterone In Humans

I have dealt with anexity my whole life. It comes down to a couple things I believe now. One is having emotional wellbeing - being in a state of self acceptance, self love, having your needs met, being secure and also physiological well being (which I myself havent achieved yet) - running on good sources of energy vs. running on stress hormones.

I've had a lot of luck feeling extremely calm with vitamin e.

There are other substances as well but each person is different so what will work for me will not necessarily work for you.


For example - ashwaganda (don't know where peat stands on this) , valerian (idk where peat stands on this), rhodila rosea (peat does not approve), l-theanine, glycine, aspirin (is suppose to be able to lower stress hormones), milk thistle (idk where peat stands on this) - are all things that also have cortisol lowering effects.

Please keep in mind I'm a supplement type person, and supplement more so than I probably should.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

For estrogen:

Vitamins b1 and b2
Vitamins B1 & B2 Are Required For Estrogen Inactivation By Liver

Vitamin k2
Vitamin K2 directly inhibits new estrogen synthesis

Vitamin E
Vitamin E (tocopherol) Is A Potent Aromatase Inhibitor

Aspirin
Aspirin Decreases Cortisol And Increases Testosterone In Humans

I have dealt with anexity my whole life. It comes down to a couple things I believe now. One is having emotional wellbeing - being in a state of self acceptance, self love, having your needs met, being secure and also physiological well being (which I myself havent achieved yet) - running on good sources of energy vs. running on stress hormones.

I've had a lot of luck feeling extremely calm with vitamin e.

There are other substances as well but each person is different so what will work for me will not necessarily work for you.


For example - ashwaganda (don't know where peat stands on this) , valerian (idk where peat stands on this), rhodila rosea (peat does not approve), l-theanine, glycine, aspirin (is suppose to be able to lower stress hormones), milk thistle (idk where peat stands on this) - are all things that also have cortisol lowering effects.

Please keep in mind I'm a supplement type person, and supplement more so than I probably should.

Hey thanks for the help. Glad to have found a supportive community. As for ashwagandha I have used it in the pass, and actually quite recently. Makes me sleep like a rock. But either the upregulation in thyroid or a cortisol/gaba rebound makes me really spacy and out off body during the day after about a week of use. I need to get some L-theanine. Rhodila destroy fatigue for me but also makes my anxiety much worse, barely open my mouth when talking. Need to get me some asprin, whats the reccomened does for someone my age?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

I think the most important thing with aspirin is how well you tolerate it and if you can okay. People here will tell you to always take with vitamin k2 - 1mg per 1 tablet and that is per ray peat - it is suppose to help with stomach bleeding issues.

Also as a side note - Ray Peat recommends dissolving aspirin in warm water before consuming. The irritating starch will be left behind at the bottom of the glass, and to not drink that part. The active part of the aspirin tastes sour, so you know you're getting the medicinal part in the water. He says this virtually eliminates the stomach irritating effects.

You can try small with a baby aspirin which is 81mg and then work your way up. I've seen Peat recommend a tablet (325mg) once every couple days or every day I cant rememeber which atm.

 

[Constatine]

Hey thanks for the help. Glad to have found a supportive community. As for ashwagandha I have used it in the pass, and actually quite recently. Makes me sleep like a rock. But either the upregulation in thyroid or a cortisol/gaba rebound makes me really spacy and out off body during the day after about a week of use. I need to get some L-theanine. Rhodila destroy fatigue for me but also makes my anxiety much worse, barely open my mouth when talking. Need to get me some asprin, whats the reccomened does for someone my age?

Yes ashwagandha is in my opinion a terrible herb. It does increase thyroid and muscle mass however its gabaergic or serotonergic effects have a detrimental effect on motivation and general emotion.
Thiamine is great for increasing dopamine levels. However more often than not the issue has to do with dopamine receptor density rather than general dopamine levels. Avoiding porn, abstaining from any drugs, and sun exposure will up-regulate dopamine receptor density.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Yes ashwagandha is in my opinion a terrible herb. It does increase thyroid and muscle mass however its gabaergic or serotonergic effects have a detrimental effect on motivation and general emotion.
Thiamine is great for increasing dopamine levels. However more often than not the issue has to do with dopamine receptor density rather than general dopamine levels. Avoiding porn, abstaining from any drugs, and sun exposure will up-regulate dopamine receptor density.

Defiently not a fan of the ashwagandha tho the muscle building properitys are quite apparent after a week or so. Things start to fill out and body composition begins to change. I do have quite the addiction to nicotine which is definitely down regulating my dopamine.

Have you heard of NALT or Tyrosine? What is the safety of these supplments?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Tyrosine is awesome. I think ray even recommends it

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Tyrosine is awesome. I think ray even recommends it

I do have NALT which has tyrosine in it. Not sure of the effects

 

[Blue Water]

How to raise dopamine naturally and safely is a good question. I made the mistake of taking mucuna pruriens, which has L-Dopa in it, and it really messed me up and made me like a zombie for one day, and now feeling depression. I'm not sure how to upregulate tyrosine hydroxylase back to normal beyond just waiting.

It's very interesting from a mineral perspective to me because lots of tyrosine enzymes are copper-based (copper enzymes build melanin and dopamine byproducts epinephrine and adrenaline). I'm 100% sure I am somehow messed up with this line. I discovered I have a copper toxicity/deficiency issue (high in tissue, low in serum). And at one point when I was at my worst, there were suspicious moles popping up all over my body, plus insane spaciness/depersonalization and depression. Also remember that tyrosine builds T3/T4 as well––so if its going all in one direction it may leave you w/ less floating thyroid hormones. Lots of things can happen in this chain.

So it's obvious that something with tyrosine chain and copper was messed up for me but I still don't know exactly what–– perhaps not enough dopamine was being converted to epinephrine and it made me dopamine toxic? Or perhaps that caused a downregulation of the tyrosine hydroxylase to prevent this from happening, making me dopamine deficient. I do know that during a copper "dump" (sudden usage of copper by adrenals signaling to liver etc.), then tons and tons of epinephrine would be made and I'd feel also very energetic, possibly dopamine would come online temporarily as well.

In short, if you want to fix dopamine safely, it probably boils down to properly restoring metabolic mineral balance, not just taking random supplements.

 

[redsun]

How to raise dopamine naturally and safely is a good question. I made the mistake of taking mucuna pruriens, which has L-Dopa in it, and it really messed me up and made me like a zombie for one day, and now feeling depression. I'm not sure how to upregulate tyrosine hydroxylase back to normal beyond just waiting.

It's very interesting from a mineral perspective to me because lots of tyrosine enzymes are copper-based (copper enzymes build melanin and dopamine byproducts epinephrine and adrenaline). I'm 100% sure I am somehow messed up with this line. I discovered I have a copper toxicity/deficiency issue (high in tissue, low in serum). And at one point when I was at my worst, there were suspicious moles popping up all over my body, plus insane spaciness/depersonalization and depression. Also remember that tyrosine builds T3/T4 as well––so if its going all in one direction it may leave you w/ less floating thyroid hormones. Lots of things can happen in this chain.

So it's obvious that something with tyrosine chain and copper was messed up for me but I still don't know exactly what–– perhaps not enough dopamine was being converted to epinephrine and it made me dopamine toxic? Or perhaps that caused a downregulation of the tyrosine hydroxylase to prevent this from happening, making me dopamine deficient. I do know that during a copper "dump" (sudden usage of copper by adrenals signaling to liver etc.), then tons and tons of epinephrine would be made and I'd feel also very energetic, possibly dopamine would come online temporarily as well.

In short, if you want to fix dopamine safely, it probably boils down to properly restoring metabolic mineral balance, not just taking random supplements.

Raising dopamine too high will just lead to low blood pressure since dopamine is a strong diuretic. Raising dopamine or taking dopaminergic substances are effective only when you can maintain water retention. Otherwise you get dehydrated, which could explain the zombie feeling. Feeling energized is about minerals/electrolytes which are necessary for normal nerve transmission. If you generally have low water retention and poor electrolyte intake normally, dopaminergic substances will worsen that and really disturb energy because of water/electrolyte depletion.

 

[Scenes]

Raising dopamine too high will just lead to low blood pressure since dopamine is a strong diuretic. Raising dopamine or taking dopaminergic substances are effective only when you can maintain water retention. Otherwise you get dehydrated, which could explain the zombie feeling. Feeling energized is about minerals/electrolytes which are necessary for normal nerve transmission. If you generally have low water retention and poor electrolyte intake normally, dopaminergic substances will worsen that and really disturb energy because of water/electrolyte depletion.

What do you suggest for water and electrolyte repletion? I'm trying to sort out my chronic under eye bag/circle condition and I believe it began after I pushed my dopamine too high a year or two ago.

I'm toying with the idea of just adding salt to my juice or milk, or drinking heaps of Gatorade, but then that's heaps more liquid which may not help, and not sure if I need to replenish more than just salt.

 

[Runenight201]

Raising dopamine too high will just lead to low blood pressure since dopamine is a strong diuretic. Raising dopamine or taking dopaminergic substances are effective only when you can maintain water retention. Otherwise you get dehydrated, which could explain the zombie feeling. Feeling energized is about minerals/electrolytes which are necessary for normal nerve transmission. If you generally have low water retention and poor electrolyte intake normally, dopaminergic substances will worsen that and really disturb energy because of water/electrolyte depletion.

Do you have any advice for staying optimally hydrated? I do perceive benefits from drinking straigth water at times, but it seems like I've been struggling really to feel hydrated. I sometimes encounter dry mouth and dry toe tips.

 

[redsun]

What do you suggest for water and electrolyte repletion? I'm trying to sort out my chronic under eye bag/circle condition and I believe it began after I pushed my dopamine too high a year or two ago.

I'm toying with the idea of just adding salt to my juice or milk, or drinking heaps of Gatorade, but then that's heaps more liquid which may not help, and not sure if I need to replenish more than just salt.

Answer is not so clear but I would expect it to be primarily about lack of certain hormones necessary for retention of water. Likely vasopressin production is primary, but also aldosterone. I will say what has worked for me. B1 seems to help (perhaps by increasing steroid hormones), as well as zinc. ACE enzyme is a zinc metalloproteinase which converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II, which then triggers vasopressin production in the CNS. Angiotensin II also increases aldosterone secretion. Both of these hormones help maintain electrolyte and water balance which will help stay hydrated.

In my experience, emergen-c was very effective for hydration. It contains a little bit of everything, all the electrolytes, but specifically vitamin C is quite high and it is a cofactor (along with copper) for the PAM enzyme which synthesizes vasopressin. Really helped me at times when I felt like I was drying out. I take it occasionally if I feel dehydrated from lots of sweating, or stress, or both. I have done vitamin C alone and was not as effect, likely the combination of C and all those minerals is much more effective for hydration.

Zinc, B1, vitamin C helped me the most and this electrolyte drink is also quite effective. So those are some options to try and so you can see what helps.

Do you have any advice for staying optimally hydrated? I do perceive benefits from drinking straigth water at times, but it seems like I've been struggling really to feel hydrated. I sometimes encounter dry mouth and dry toe tips.

Plain water sometimes is what is needed, but the mainstream advice of drinking massive amounts of plain water can of course become counterproductive, so clearly that's not a good answer. It can be tricky but as I suggested to scenes, you can try that product. Helps me a lot when I take it. Its effective for me while I try to research more about hormones and nutrition involved with maintaining optimal hydration. Reason I even think this is so important is maintaining water/electrolyte balance not only helps energy, but helps also maintain youthfulness of tissues.

 

[dukesbobby777]

Environmental, life circumstances and your views on your life account for a lot. I think supplementation and dietary approaches can only improve things slightly. Coffee is the best thing I have come across but you grow tolerant to its dopaminergic effects.

With supplements I guess just bear in mind that tolerance occurs if things aren’t cycled.

 

[Scenes]

Answer is not so clear but I would expect it to be primarily about lack of certain hormones necessary for retention of water. Likely vasopressin production is primary, but also aldosterone. I will say what has worked for me. B1 seems to help (perhaps by increasing steroid hormones), as well as zinc. ACE enzyme is a zinc metalloproteinase which converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II, which then triggers vasopressin production in the CNS. Angiotensin II also increases aldosterone secretion. Both of these hormones help maintain electrolyte and water balance which will help stay hydrated.

In my experience, emergen-c was very effective for hydration. It contains a little bit of everything, all the electrolytes, but specifically vitamin C is quite high and it is a cofactor (along with copper) for the PAM enzyme which synthesizes vasopressin. Really helped me at times when I felt like I was drying out. I take it occasionally if I feel dehydrated from lots of sweating, or stress, or both. I have done vitamin C alone and was not as effect, likely the combination of C and all those minerals is much more effective for hydration.

View attachment 20816

Zinc, B1, vitamin C helped me the most and this electrolyte drink is also quite effective. So those are some options to try and so you can see what helps.


Plain water sometimes is what is needed, but the mainstream advice of drinking massive amounts of plain water can of course become counterproductive, so clearly that's not a good answer. It can be tricky but as I suggested to scenes, you can try that product. Helps me a lot when I take it. Its effective for me while I try to research more about hormones and nutrition involved with maintaining optimal hydration. Reason I even think this is so important is maintaining water/electrolyte balance not only helps energy, but helps also maintain youthfulness of tissues.

So you don’t suggest sodium/salt as the main thing to help rehydrate and balance all the electrolytes? Peat said something about low thyroid people urinate out their sodium (and calcium and magnesium), so I thought some t3 and salt together for a bit might do the trick.

In another interview he said allergies caused by low magnesium can finally be alleviated by taking some t3 and magnesium together. The t3 helps the body retain the magnesium and the allergies are gone. Thought it might be similar with t3 and sodium.

 

[redsun]

So you don’t suggest sodium/salt as the main thing to help rehydrate and balance all the electrolytes? Peat said something about low thyroid people urinate out their sodium (and calcium and magnesium), so I thought some t3 and salt together for a bit might do the trick.

In another interview he said allergies caused by low magnesium can finally be alleviated by taking some t3 and magnesium together. The t3 helps the body retain the magnesium and the allergies are gone. Thought it might be similar with t3 and sodium.

Yes salt is also very effective of course. I didn't mean to make it sound like it wasn't. And low thyroid does affect sodium retention as well, so taking thyroid or T3 would improve that. Its something everyone should be doing (getting plenty of sodium).

 

[Runenight201]

Answer is not so clear but I would expect it to be primarily about lack of certain hormones necessary for retention of water. Likely vasopressin production is primary, but also aldosterone. I will say what has worked for me. B1 seems to help (perhaps by increasing steroid hormones), as well as zinc. ACE enzyme is a zinc metalloproteinase which converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II, which then triggers vasopressin production in the CNS. Angiotensin II also increases aldosterone secretion. Both of these hormones help maintain electrolyte and water balance which will help stay hydrated.

In my experience, emergen-c was very effective for hydration. It contains a little bit of everything, all the electrolytes, but specifically vitamin C is quite high and it is a cofactor (along with copper) for the PAM enzyme which synthesizes vasopressin. Really helped me at times when I felt like I was drying out. I take it occasionally if I feel dehydrated from lots of sweating, or stress, or both. I have done vitamin C alone and was not as effect, likely the combination of C and all those minerals is much more effective for hydration.

View attachment 20816

Zinc, B1, vitamin C helped me the most and this electrolyte drink is also quite effective. So those are some options to try and so you can see what helps.


Plain water sometimes is what is needed, but the mainstream advice of drinking massive amounts of plain water can of course become counterproductive, so clearly that's not a good answer. It can be tricky but as I suggested to scenes, you can try that product. Helps me a lot when I take it. Its effective for me while I try to research more about hormones and nutrition involved with maintaining optimal hydration. Reason I even think this is so important is maintaining water/electrolyte balance not only helps energy, but helps also maintain youthfulness of tissues.

I have emergen-c in my toolkit of supplements to utilize and just used it today actually. I mixed it with some extra lemon juice because I usually feel better with that extra sour kick. I noticed that my next couple hours of work were very mellow and I didn’t feel a great desire to do any work at all, but I also wasn’t miserable. I just kinda wanted to sit and relax, but that certainly wasn’t appropriate given my circumstances.

I actually just got some thiamine and folic acid in the mail, so I’m going to play around with those vitamins and see what effects they may have. It’s tough to find the right balance of foods that provide that natural fullness and nourishment without having negative effects. I usually feel slightly better in my head space from tonic drinks I make but they don’t seem to quite give me that zing for productivity without aggressive measures (like chugging a latte or a Red Bull)

Any theories as to why zinc would cause nausea? I’ve noticed twice now that after taking zinc by itself with some water that I get this transient feeling of naseau that subsided after 30 or so minutes. I’ve ditched the zinc as a result, so we’ll see where the b-vitamins take me.

 

[redsun]

I have emergen-c in my toolkit of supplements to utilize and just used it today actually. I mixed it with some extra lemon juice because I usually feel better with that extra sour kick. I noticed that my next couple hours of work were very mellow and I didn’t feel a great desire to do any work at all, but I also wasn’t miserable. I just kinda wanted to sit and relax, but that certainly wasn’t appropriate given my circumstances.

I actually just got some thiamine and folic acid in the mail, so I’m going to play around with those vitamins and see what effects they may have. It’s tough to find the right balance of foods that provide that natural fullness and nourishment without having negative effects. I usually feel slightly better in my head space from tonic drinks I make but they don’t seem to quite give me that zing for productivity without aggressive measures (like chugging a coffee or a Red Bull)

Any theories as to why zinc would cause nausea? I’ve noticed twice now that after taking zinc by itself with some water that I get this transient feeling of naseau that subsided after 30 or so minutes. I’ve ditched the zinc as a result, so we’ll see where the b-vitamins take me.

Interesting. I feel pretty good from emergen-c, more stimulated generally. But sometimes when we take in nutrients they originally may calm us down way too much, but with time the effect may change. Its really dependent on the individual.

Just keep in mind, if you consume caffeine, your body will expect a certain dose at a certain time everyday. If you sporadically drink caffeine, at different times of the day, different amounts, skip days, etc this will lead to constant highs and lows as your brain chemistry constantly adjusts to the amount you take in. This is why it is best to be as consistent as possible with your caffeine intake. And if you want to lay off the caffeine temporarily, doing so on a day where the extra energy is not helpful will prevent the problem of inconsistent productivity.

Zinc will cause nausea if its taken on empty stomach or barely with any food (just water). Should be taken with a good meal. Reason is because zinc in a pill just irritates the stomach. People with low stomach acid will get nauseous more easily from supplements like zinc. This is the idea behind taking with a meal, since the eating process will trigger digestive secretions and stomach acid production and this will never happen. It can still happen with a meal if the zinc dose you take is much too large. <15mg at a time should be taken to prevent that.

If the zinc dose is very small, say 5mg it may not cause nausea on an empty stomach, but even that much can cause it depending on the person.

 

[Scenes]

I'm very interested in exploring this. Playing around with Lisuride was what first caused the dryness and under eye circles, and zinc and b6 (separately) both make it worse too. Spending time in the sun also makes it worse, which had me ultra confused. I never considered it was related to dopamine - seems obvious now.

Do you recommend just any basic electrolyte supplement if I can't find the one you suggested? Is it just a matter of rehydrating and the body will manage it from there?

Also, your advice on folate for erection quality had an immediate positive impact for me, so I'm all ears.

Yes salt is also very effective of course. I didn't mean to make it sound like it wasn't. And low thyroid does affect sodium retention as well, so taking thyroid or T3 would improve that. Its something everyone should be doing (getting plenty of sodium).

 

[redsun]

I'm very interested in exploring this. Playing around with Lisuride was what first caused the dryness and under eye circles, and zinc and b6 (separately) both make it worse too. Spending time in the sun also makes it worse, which had me ultra confused. I never considered it was related to dopamine - seems obvious now.

Do you recommend just any basic electrolyte supplement if I can't find the one you suggested? Is it just a matter of rehydrating and the body will manage it from there?

Also, your advice on folate for erection quality had an immediate positive impact for me, so I'm all ears.

Yeh the thing with B6 it is very effective at lower prolactin by raising dopamine, so there is an obvious way it worsens water retention. The sun tends to be dehydrating in general, always a good idea to get plenty of fluids if you are in the sun for long.

Any electrolyte supplement works. Its helpful for hydrating, but doesn't "fix" anything I suppose. Could be a mismatch of neurotransmitters and lack of certain hormones that make us more susceptible to drying out. Perhaps plenty of dopamine is there, but something else is missing or inadequate. So any dopamine agonist (say caffeine which is a DA agonist indirectly) worsens this problem.