Need help with my HTMA results (hair mineral analysis)

[DonLore]

High potassium typically means potassium loss. Are you taking a lot of vitamin d??? For all the praise vitamin d gets if you take it a lot it will cause a loss in your kidneys. I tested HTMA for 3-4 years. This pattern also means you are a fast oxidizer. You need to eat more fats to balance this out, and up your potassium intake. Consider getting sun instead of taking vitamin d if you are.

I havent supplemented D in two years, my D is still 100. Sun and solarium in dark months. I get plenty of potassium from foods, maybe 3-6g per day

 

[InChristAlone]

There are tests called provoked challenge tests like one I had on lead.

A provoked challenge test shows I have lead in my tissues, which I think is likely in fat issues or in bone tissues. Not in circulation, and safely tucked away from harm to us- as long as we do nothing to 'provoke' them into getting back into circulation.

My opinion is I'd just leave them alone.

Yeah don't ever try pulling heavy metals from tissues. They come out when they are ready to come out and be dealt with.

 

[InChristAlone]

@TheSir What do you think about eating cruciferous vegetables in regards to thyroid health. I always thought they were anti-thyroid?

 

[DonLore]

@TheSir What do you think about eating cruciferous vegetables in regards to thyroid health. I always thought they were anti-thyroid?

Well-cooked, occasional use shouldnt really matter from what I have read. Just keep them in minimun. And get iodine sources!

 

[InChristAlone]

Well-cooked, occasional use shouldnt really matter from what I have read. Just keep them in minimun. And get iodine sources!

Dr wilson recommends cruciferous veggies with each meal, well he recommends eating a variety of veggies, up to 16 different ones if you can. He has a list of the most beneficial ones.

 

[TheSir]

Silicon dioxide is one of the main ones. Hinders small intestine activity. I had a lot of bloating and skin rashes from the supplements. You can look up Chinese medicine small intestine imbalance. Not to mention they want you taking the supplements 3 times a day. I had breathing issues at night. Had a panic attack one time. I felt good sometimes but also would feel off sometimes and that is supposedly “detoxing heavy metals”. But never had too many big dumps except for aluminum and iron.
I quit the program bc I didn’t want to spend my life eating tons of cooked vegetables and the diet makes you start looking at certain foods as “bad”. Which in itself is a stressor. Also I was doing some traveling and the worst thing you can do is take the supplements when not doing the full program. I also think that the supplements coffee enemas red light etc deplete your potassium levels to a great extent.

If you are able to stay in the program faithfully then it could work, but I personally didn’t want to live my life that way. I still eat foods reccomended sometimes and do the procedures but not religiously

From what you wrote it's not clear to me whether your symptoms were caused by supplement toxins or detox. Beyond the common heavy metals there are dozens of toxins that may be eliminated any time and cause just about any kind of issue. Even just having the liver dump some stagnated filth can cause panic, bloating and rashes. The supplements themselves are powerful combinations of ingredients and can be expected to cause difficulties regardless of purity. In the modern world healing means basically continuous physio/psychological detoxing for many years, and as you said, it's not an easy way to live. Even I am doing this only because I have no other options left.

What's your take on the mechanism behind potassium depletion?

So I re-read most of the important things on his website after like 8 yrs of finding HTMA and I think I'm finally open to adding a lot of veggies to my diet. In all honesty the ones he recommends can taste pretty good if you cook them and add butter or oil. I don't tolerate beans or whole grains, and I thought veggies were just full of chemicals, which means I was just eating refined starches or potatoes and fruits, very very low quality diet so it's no wonder I haven't gotten much better other than not having panic attacks all the time. I think a lot of people who end up on the Peat diet are similar. They are suffering from too much yin and so eating things that push you the other way is uncomfortable, a lot of traumas and feelings surface that you don't want to deal with. Staying on the fruit and dairy 'feels better' but you end up sicker and sicker as you get older needing more and more aspirin, drugs, caffeine, thyroid, progesterone testosterone etc.

Agree 100%.

@TheSir What do you think about eating cruciferous vegetables in regards to thyroid health. I always thought they were anti-thyroid?

For the most part antinutrients taste unpleasant. A well cooked broccoli will taste slightly sweet with no hints of bitterness. I've decided to trust my tastebuds.

 

[InChristAlone]

From what you wrote it's not clear to me whether your symptoms were caused by supplement toxins or detox. Beyond the common heavy metals there are dozens of toxins that may be eliminated any time and cause just about any kind of issue. Even just having the liver dump some stagnated filth can cause panic, bloating and rashes. The supplements themselves are powerful combinations of ingredients and can be expected to cause difficulties regardless of purity. In the modern world healing means basically continuous physio/psychological detoxing for many years, and as you said, it's not an easy way to live. Even I am doing this only because I have no other options left.

What's your take on the mechanism behind potassium depletion?


Agree 100%.

For the most part antinutrients taste unpleasant. A well cooked broccoli will taste slightly sweet with no hints of bitterness. I've decided to trust my tastebuds.

That's interesting because I had my first bowl of cooked veggies yesterday- cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, green beans, carrots and onion. And I tasted bitternesss, I think from the brussel sprouts. Then again I'm probably super sensitive to it as I never eat anything bitter that's not sweetened by sugar like chocolate. My diet has been high sugar for 10 yrs.

 

[TheSir]

That's interesting because I had my first bowl of cooked veggies yesterday- cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, green beans, carrots and onion. And I tasted bitternesss, I think from the brussel sprouts. Then again I'm probably super sensitive to it as I never eat anything bitter that's not sweetened by sugar like chocolate. My diet has been high sugar for 10 yrs.

You can try a longer cooking time. They should be very soft by the end of the boil. This seems to take about 30 minutes, or 20 if you put them through a blender first. That being sais, I don't like brussel sprouts that much either.

 

[yerrag]

The supplements themselves are powerful combinations of ingredients and can be expected to cause difficulties regardless of purity. In the modern world healing means basically continuous physio/psychological detoxing for many years, and as you said, it's not an easy way to live. Even I am doing this only because I have no other options left.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

I have cone to this same realization as well. Oftentimes, we have to see symptoms positively, as a confirmation of detox working instead of seeing it as being a pathology. For seeing it negatively would lead to stopping the detox process. And the process of healing would then be aborted.

 

[Can]

Inspired by this thread, I ordered a hair mineral analysis test kit yesterday - will post the result once I get it!

I also read a bit on the website. I am certainly not going full in with the mentioned approach of only eating thirty kinds of vegetables, and eating the same kind of vegetables three times or more every day - that approach seems extreme, and I don't see a reason to justify this in my life. I will also keep eating fruits and non-recommended vegetables - I trust my intuition more than other people's prescriptions and don't feel like these foods are damaging me in moderation.

However, I do think that there a valuable nuggets of information that to me seem right - like the fact that both fruits and dairy (foods that I relied on a lot in the last couple of weeks/months), are all cold and cooling foods (and also Yin foods according to TCM?), and need to be balanced out with warm/warming foods. The temperature is rarely, if at all ever, considered in the bio-energetic community and I have never heard Ray talk about it, but if I listen to my body on days where I mostly eat large amounts of fruits and dairy (maybe even coming fresh out of the refrigerator), I do feel off. Despite eating a lot of calories/energy, I might still feel colder than on days where I eat less but warmer foods, and like my nervous system is excited/aroused (in a negative way), instead of calm and relaxed.

Since this is also talked about here: I don't see these signs as signs of detoxification, but moreso signs of my body telling me what I should or shouldn't been doing. I don't know how exactly one would tell detox symptoms from other symptoms apart, but I trust my intuition and feeling on this, and I trust that I can differentiate detox symptoms from my body guiding me to the right behavior. I don't know what you all have experienced, but to me, detoxification symptoms should be followed by feeling better than before one started experiencing the detox symptoms - so if I don't feel better afterwards than I did before experiencing the symptoms to begin with, I would assume that they are not related to detoxification. But I would appreciate further input on this: How do you differentiate the symptoms of detoxification, from the symptoms of your body telling you to do something different, or the symptoms a sickness/lack of health causes?

 

[InChristAlone]

Inspired by this thread, I ordered a hair mineral analysis test kit yesterday - will post the result once I get it!

I also read a bit on the website. I am certainly not going full in with the mentioned approach of only eating thirty kinds of vegetables, and eating the same kind of vegetables three times or more every day - that approach seems extreme, and I don't see a reason to justify this in my life. I will also keep eating fruits and non-recommended vegetables - I trust my intuition more than other people's prescriptions and don't feel like these foods are damaging me in moderation.

However, I do think that there a valuable nuggets of information that to me seem right - like the fact that both fruits and dairy (foods that I relied on a lot in the last couple of weeks/months), are all cold and cooling foods (and also Yin foods according to TCM?). The temperature is rarely, if at all ever, considered in the bio-energetic community and I have never heard Ray talk about it, but if I listen to my body on days where I mostly eat large amounts of fruits and dairy (maybe even coming fresh out of the refrigerator), I do feel off in subtle ways that I cannot fully articulate. Despite eating a lot of calories/energy, I might still feel colder than on days where I eat less but warmer foods, and like my nervous system is excited/aroused (in a negative way), instead of calm and relaxed.

Since this is also talked about here: I don't see these signs as signs of detoxification, but moreso signs of my body telling me what I should or shouldn't been doing. I don't know how exactly one would tell detox symptoms from other symptoms apart, but I trust my intuition and feeling on this, and I trust that I can differentiate detox symptoms from my body guiding me to the right behavior. I don't know what you all have experienced, but to me, detoxification symptoms should be followed by feeling better than before one started experiencing the detox symptoms - so if I don't feel better afterwards than I did before experiencing the symptoms to begin with, I would assume that they are not related to detoxification.

Yes the reason I'm considering the yin and yang of food is because I have to admit I have very bad cold sensitivity to the point where sometimes I'll put socks on in summer because the air conditioning feels too cold even though it's set at 79. Eating more calories seemed to help, but if those calories were cooling foods then no it made it worse. I gravitate towards warming foods. Bodies are too yin nowadays. Too depleted to handle large amounts of fruit.

I agree detox should make one feel better after not worse.

 

[InChristAlone]

You can try a longer cooking time. They should be very soft by the end of the boil. This seems to take about 30 minutes, or 20 if you put them through a blender first. That being sais, I don't like brussel sprouts that much either.

Thanks, yeah I pressure cooked for almost 3 mins so it was well cooked I guess brussel sprouts just have more bitter compounds than the other crucifers. Garrett Smith would say avoid anything that tastes bitter because it's our signal it has poisons in it, but that doesn't quite work as billions of people consume bitter foods everyday... coffee and cocoa being the major ones, cruciferous veggies being the other main one. And if people have healed on those bitter foods then they are not so poisonous such that they make us weaker.

Did you do the coffee enemas?

 

[InChristAlone]

Found this on Dr. Wilson's website:
"Drug and toxin metabolism

Chemicals contained in cruciferous vegetables induce the expression of the liver enzyme CYP1A2.[2] Furthermore some drugs such as haloperidol and theophylline are metabolized by CYP1A2. Consequently consumption of cruciferous vegetable may decrease bioavailability and half-life of these drugs.[3]

Brassicaceae contain a number of hepato-protective agents.[4] Alliaceous and cruciferous vegetable consumption induces glutathione S-transferases, uridine diphosphate-glucuronosyl transferases, and quinone reductases[5] all of which participate in detoxification of carcinogens such as aflatoxin.[6]

Antimicrobial activity

Iso-thio-cyanates are an important factor in the action of wasabi against Helicobacter Pylori,[7][8][9] and ITC is not a molecule, but a functional group of many different molecules, Sinigrin being a notable precursor of allyl-ITC, and AITC being a larger part of Wasabi than of most other Brassicaceae. Sulforaphane demonstrates anti-inflammatory effects on Helicobacter pylori-infected gastric mucosae in mice and human subjects.[10]

Taste

People who can taste phenylthiocarbamide, which is either very bitter or tasteless, are less likely to eat cruciferous vegetables,[11] due to the resemblance between isothiocyanate (ITC) and PTC.

Contraindications (if raw)- Goiter

Raw cruciferous vegetables can potentially be goitrogenic (inducing goiter formation). They contain enzymes that interfere with the formation of thyroid hormone in people with iodine deficiency.[12][13]

Cooking for 30 minutes significantly reduces the amount of goitrogens and nitriles. At high intake of crucifers, the goitrogens inhibit the incorporation of iodine into thyroid hormone and also the transfer of iodine into milk by the mammary gland.[14]"

 

[TheSir]

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

I have cone to this same realization myself. Oftentimes, we have to see symptoms positively, as a confirmation of detox working instead of seeing it as being a pathology. For seeing it negatively would lead to stopping the detox process. And the process of healing would then be aborted.

Definitely, it is said that inabllity to accept the desirability of the undesirable symptoms is the main reason people quit any healing modality too early.

Since this is also talked about here: I don't see these signs as signs of detoxification, but moreso signs of my body telling me what I should or shouldn't been doing. I don't know how exactly one would tell detox symptoms from other symptoms apart, but I trust my intuition and feeling on this, and I trust that I can differentiate detox symptoms from my body guiding me to the right behavior. I don't know what you all have experienced, but to me, detoxification symptoms should be followed by feeling better than before one started experiencing the detox symptoms - so if I don't feel better afterwards than I did before experiencing the symptoms to begin with, I would assume that they are not related to detoxification. But I would appreciate further input on this: How do you differentiate the symptoms of detoxification, from the symptoms of your body telling you to do something different, or the symptoms a sickness/lack of health causes?

Differentiating between a detox and harmful practices can be tricky but your approach is sound. Detox symptoms can come and go in unpredictable waves but they end eventually and leave you better off. Harmful practices tend to cause issues in more predictable, persistent and cumulative ways. Having said that, detox reactions can nevertheless be very upsetting and intense at worst. An acquaintance of mine spent the first months on Wilsons program pacing around his house groaning from dyshporia and my start was pretty rough too.

Thanks, yeah I pressure cooked for almost 3 mins so it was well cooked I guess brussel sprouts just have more bitter compounds than the other crucifers. Garrett Smith would say avoid anything that tastes bitter because it's our signal it has poisons in it, but that doesn't quite work as billions of people consume bitter foods everyday... coffee and cocoa being the major ones, cruciferous veggies being the other main one. And if people have healed on those bitter foods then they are not so poisonous such that they make us weaker.

Did you do the coffee enemas?

Yeah, context and all that. I haven't done coffee enemas yet due to residual absorption, at the moment any stimulation will make me feel very uncomfortable, it might be glutamate sensitivity/toxicity due to low mg&cal. They sound powerful though.

 

[InChristAlone]

Definitely, it is said that inabllity to accept the desirability of the undesirable symptoms is the main reason people quit any healing modality too early.

Differentiating between a detox and harmful practices can be tricky but your approach is sound. Detox symptoms can come and go in unpredictable waves but they end eventually and leave you better off. Harmful practices tend to cause issues in more predictable, persistent and cumulative ways. Having said that, detox reactions can nevertheless be very upsetting and intense at worst. An acquaintance of mine spent the first months on Wilsons program pacing around his house groaning from dyshporia and my start was pretty rough too.


Yeah, context and all that. I haven't done coffee enemas yet due to residual absorption, at the moment any stimulation will make me feel very uncomfortable, it might be glutamate sensitivity/toxicity due to low mg&cal. They sound powerful though.

I think the coffee enemas can make the detox more comfortable, but if any stimulation is awful you could work up to it by taking just a small amount and increasing it day by day. Eating something small right before seems to help if caffeine is the issue.

 

[yerrag]

But I would appreciate further input on this: How do you differentiate the symptoms of detoxification, from the symptoms of your body telling you to do something different, or the symptoms a sickness/lack of health causes?

A few examples may help.

Is a fever making you feel better? Is taking paracetamol or Tylenol making you feel better to reduce the fever helpful in actuality? I talk in general terms.

When a wound is healing, do you feel really better because it's very itchy?

When you urinate a lot, do you feel better or would you tend to find it annoying and therefore you consider having to wake up often at night not a detox process because you don't feel good having to wake up so often to pee?

When you have diarrhea after taking an antibiotic, do you feel better and if not, would you then say the antibiotic is not killing the pathogens and the diarrhea is not a sign that the antibiotic is working because the die-off or endotoxins are causing the gut not to absorb the gut stew because it us dirty and causes the feces to be liquid instead of solid?

I could give you more examples of the counter-intuitive nature of detox and healing.

It's not clear-cut and you need knowledge and experience and it is a cognitive skill and certainly needs an ability to question practices and beliefs as to whether they are conventional wisdom based on myths. The medical system unfortunately is rife with myths.

 

[mattmm24]

That is definitely one of the major downsides to following any program. It can override what your body is telling you. Thankfully Ray has taught us to perceive think act and if a supplement is causing intestinal irritation it can definitely show up as increased serotonin. To be fair Dr Wilson says supplements are yin and so minimizing them is essential. He doesn't seem to be too aware of the serotonin issue.

From what you wrote it's not clear to me whether your symptoms were caused by supplement toxins or detox. Beyond the common heavy metals there are dozens of toxins that may be eliminated any time and cause just about any kind of issue. Even just having the liver dump some stagnated filth can cause panic, bloating and rashes. The supplements themselves are powerful combinations of ingredients and can be expected to cause difficulties regardless of purity. In the modern world healing means basically continuous physio/psychological detoxing for many years, and as you said, it's not an easy way to live. Even I am doing this only because I have no other options left.

What's your take on the mechanism behind potassium depletion?


Agree 100%.

For the most part antinutrients taste unpleasant. A well cooked broccoli will taste slightly sweet with no hints of bitterness. I've decided to trust my tastebuds.

Here’s something interesting. I stopped all supplements and decided to try what is considered overpriced Mitosynergy. That supplement is the real deal. I feel amazing on it. The guy who makes the supplement explains that copper 2 what you find in supplements such as limcomin are absolutely horrible for you bc your body cant use the copper. Zinc is no problem. But copper in supplement form as copper 2 just gets stored in your liver and brain bc your body can’t use it. I’m also convinced that vitamin d in supplement form isn’t needed either. It does speed up your thyroid but i think if you get your bioavailable copper right everything else will fall into place. 100 years ago people were getting 4-6 mg a day of bioavailable bc we actually had copper in our soil.
Going back to dr Wilson I think he does mean well but has missed the mark on the supplements. 3 X a day of those crappy supplements is horrible. Do you notice how he demonizes copper in favor of zinc???? Copper toxicity only exists from ingesting copper 2 and not getting the bioavailable. Yet he is obsessed with copper toxicity and detoxing but still is giving the toxic form in the supplements. Maybe he doesn’t know??? And also he is very pro calcium over magnesium. All bc calcium and zinc are male minerals or more “yang”. I’ll quit my rant on Wilson but it would be interesting to email him about this

 

[TheSir]

Here’s something interesting. I stopped all supplements and decided to try what is considered overpriced Mitosynergy. That supplement is the real deal. I feel amazing on it. The guy who makes the supplement explains that copper 2 what you find in supplements such as limcomin are absolutely horrible for you bc your body cant use the copper. Zinc is no problem. But copper in supplement form as copper 2 just gets stored in your liver and brain bc your body can’t use it. I’m also convinced that vitamin d in supplement form isn’t needed either. It does speed up your thyroid but i think if you get your bioavailable copper right everything else will fall into place. 100 years ago people were getting 4-6 mg a day of bioavailable bc we actually had copper in our soil.
Going back to dr Wilson I think he does mean well but has missed the mark on the supplements. 3 X a day of those crappy supplements is horrible. Do you notice how he demonizes copper in favor of zinc???? Copper toxicity only exists from ingesting copper 2 and not getting the bioavailable. Yet he is obsessed with copper toxicity and detoxing but still is giving the toxic form in the supplements. Maybe he doesn’t know??? And also he is very pro calcium over magnesium. All bc calcium and zinc are male minerals or more “yang”. I’ll quit my rant on Wilson but it would be interesting to email him about this

Mitosynergy claims to be the first bioavailable copper supplement. Yet copper chelates have existed for a long time and people have routinely used them to correct copper deficiencies to the ultimate result of decreased symptoms and increased well being. If your dispute was about chelated vs unchelated forms of copper (oxide etc), I would agree since the latter kind are potentially harmful. This is the distinction Wilson and Mitosynergy alike are making in my eyes.

At best, Mitosynergy offers improved bioavailabity due to the synergetic ingredient, meaning that the benefits come from you having practically increased your copper intake. It would be ridiculous to assume that copper's bioavailability wholly depended on this extra ingredient which is not regularly present even in food sources of copper. I bet that you could achieve the same result simply by taking a larger dose of a regular chelate.

Fascinating supplement nevertheless. How long have you been using MS so far? I'd be interested in Wilson's thoughts too, bump this thread if you get a reply out of him.