Need help to figure out why I react so badly to coffee

[Astolfo]

Firstly, I have PSSD but not prefer to call it that way because my problems are more akin to CFS/progressive dementia.

Whenever I drink coffee, my dementia goes worse (vision, cognitive abilities), my bowel gets more reactive to inner stimuli, my chronic hunger problem gets worse, my motor coordination gets more impaired and my eustachian tube dysfunction becomes worse. My blood test results show highish basophils, lowish copper, highish zinc and low ceruloplasmin. It looks like I'm undermethylated but I have food allergies (I sneeze whenever I eat something) and I think my adrenaline is oversensitized (I think I have low adrenaline but sensitized receptors).

What does this look like? Excess acetylcholine? Low blood flow? high methylation or low methylation?

 

[John mcclain]

View: https://youtu.be/beZPtYTxgSI

 

[AsuraAcademy]

In what form you get coffee? Have you tried caffeine alone? I was feeling worse (poor digestion of milk, fatigue) when I mix instant coffee powder in hot milk. But, if I mix instant coffee powder in cold milk, I feel great. It turns out, instant coffee powder slightly curdles the hot milk and affects digestion... Some people also feel bad when they drink coffee with sugar and feel okay if they drink it without sugar...

 

[Waynish]

See if baking soda with water throughout the day helps. You might too acidic.

 

[redsun]

Firstly, I have PSSD but not prefer to call it that way because my problems are more akin to CFS/progressive dementia.

Whenever I drink coffee, my dementia goes worse (vision, cognitive abilities), my bowel gets more reactive to inner stimuli, my chronic hunger problem gets worse, my motor coordination gets more impaired and my eustachian tube dysfunction becomes worse. My blood test results show highish basophils, lowish copper, highish zinc and low ceruloplasmin. It looks like I'm undermethylated but I have food allergies (I sneeze whenever I eat something) and I think my adrenaline is oversensitized (I think I have low adrenaline but sensitized receptors).

What does this look like? Excess acetylcholine? Low blood flow? high methylation or low methylation?

Coffee depletes the B vitamins and blocks B1 absorption. This can eventually lead to motor and cognitive impairments since B1 and the other B-vitamins are necessary for the synthesis of acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters involved in movement and cognition. You will also have CFS from lack of B-vitamins since they are needed to make ATP. Motor impairment usually means low Ach activity to some degree, which is dependent on B-vitamins and choline. This can lead to severe CFS since Ach is required for muscle contractions.

If you have PSSD, having low copper leads to less MAO-A activity leading to a build up of serotonin. This is the literal last thing you want. Looks like to me you need to increase copper levels, considering you also have histamine reactions from foods. But you also need B-vitamins which are necessary to make DAO and MAO enzymes and neurotransmitters like Ach to improve your cognitive and motor impairments. You could be hungry because you need much more protein then you consume now or due to low adrenergic activity because of low copper.

 

[Astolfo]

Coffee depletes the B vitamins and blocks B1 absorption. This can eventually lead to motor and cognitive impairments since B1 and the other B-vitamins are necessary for the synthesis of acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters involved in movement and cognition. You will also have CFS from lack of B-vitamins since they are needed to make ATP. Motor impairment usually means low Ach activity to some degree, which is dependent on B-vitamins and choline. This can lead to severe CFS since Ach is required for muscle contractions.

I tried B complex and B1 alone (500 mg) without a significant improvement in my motor symptoms. Also as I said, everything happens in 30 minutes, so it can't be a nutritional issue.

If you have PSSD, having low copper leads to less MAO-A activity leading to a build up of serotonin. This is the literal last thing you want. Looks like to me you need to increase copper levels, considering you also have histamine reactions from foods. But you also need B-vitamins which are necessary to make DAO and MAO enzymes and neurotransmitters like Ach to improve your cognitive and motor impairments. You could be hungry because you need much more protein then you consume now or due to low adrenergic activity because of low copper.

I did not mean I am hungry, I just feel very irritating, scraping feeling in my stomach, but without the usual appetite. My body has nutrition, but I still feel hungry. This gets worse if I drink coffee, or eat meat (eating any kind of meat instantly makes me feel really worse), or do anything that worsens my condition (including masturbation or eating turmeric). BCAA temporarily improves this.

Copper deficiency makes sense but I still can't figure out why my body doesn't absorb enough amounts of copper. I eat chocolate and potatoes sometimes. There must be something that's blocking my copper absorption.

Also I thought maybe I have high acetylcholine because;
Coffee increases acetylcholine (I feel worse after drinking)
Progesterone is an acetylcholine receptor blocker (I have very high progesterone)
copper increases acetylcholinesterase
Cofee worsens PET --> The cause of Patulous Eustachian Tube (Hypothesis) - Medicine & Diseases
I feel worse after eating potatoes --> Potatoes cholinergic?

This is my first symptom I noticed while I was on fluoxetine -->

Feeling overly sleepy or tired (particularly in the evening), despite adequate sleep and rest

Symptoms of High Acetylcholine
I have chronic diarrhea problem which gets instantly worse after drinking coffee (Acetylcholine, again)

 

[redsun]

I tried B complex and B1 alone (500 mg) without a significant improvement in my motor symptoms. Also as I said, everything happens in 30 minutes, so it can't be a nutritional issue.



I did not mean I am hungry, I just feel very irritating, scraping feeling in my stomach, but without the usual appetite. My body has nutrition, but I still feel hungry. This gets worse if I drink coffee, or eat meat (eating any kind of meat instantly makes me feel really worse), or do anything that worsens my condition (including masturbation or eating turmeric). BCAA temporarily improves this.

Copper deficiency makes sense but I still can't figure out why my body doesn't absorb enough amounts of copper. I eat chocolate and potatoes sometimes. There must be something that's blocking my copper absorption.

Also I thought maybe I have high acetylcholine because;
Coffee increases acetylcholine (I feel worse after drinking)
Progesterone is an acetylcholine receptor blocker (I have very high progesterone)
copper increases acetylcholinesterase
Cofee worsens PET --> The cause of Patulous Eustachian Tube (Hypothesis) - Medicine & Diseases
I feel worse after eating potatoes --> Potatoes cholinergic?
Symptoms of High Acetylcholine
I have chronic diarrhea problem which gets instantly worse after drinking coffee (Acetylcholine, again)

That is a massive amount of B1. I dont know why so many people when they take B1 they take such high doses.

Coffee increases bowel movements in everyone. It also stimulates beta endorphins, and overall stimulates the CNS so its not just Ach activity increasing so its hard to say Ach is the sole culprit. If you have histamine problems it tends to trigger that as well.

If you had high acetylcholine activity you would have really good memory and cognition should be decent. Do you have that?

Potatoes do have solanine but mostly in the skin. You should skin them if you don't. Also they need to be stored properly to avoid solanine build up. If you still react to them with that into account then yes you could have high Ach activity.

I think likely you are dealing with high serotonin at the very least. This alone can be responsible for diarrhea and mental deterioration and motor problems.

How much caffeine from coffee do you consume daily?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Here's a test you can do. "Drink" a cup by taking a sip and then spitting it out into another cup. I only drink coffee for the taste, so that's what I do when coffee makes me feel weird. You will get some caffeine absorption and buzz via the gums, but that method will bypass the digestive system.

 

[Perry Staltic]

View: https://youtu.be/beZPtYTxgSI

Why do people here say seeds and other stuff shouldn't be consumed because they contain natural pesticides, but religiously drink coffee which is a pesticide, according to what this guy says in the video?

 

[Astolfo]

If you had high acetylcholine activity you would have really good memory and cognition should be decent. Do you have that?

I used to be near savant level while I was healthy. My dementia progressed so much that I cannot even do basic math or can read simple sentences in my native language now.

Potatoes do have solanine but mostly in the skin. You should skin them if you don't. Also they need to be stored properly to avoid solanine build up. If you still react to them with that into account then yes you could have high Ach activity.

I peel potatoes just before I eat them. I never ate a potatoe with skin on.

How much caffeine from coffee do you consume daily?

I used to drink at most 4 cup (less than 300 mg), and usually 2 cups. I haven't been drinking coffee for 2 months and today I decided to drink only 1 cup. Again, the effect came in about 30 minutes.. My bowel goes back to fairly normal (I mean, baseline) in 2 days.

 

[aliml]

Add ginger powder to your coffee.

Ginger inhibits the vagus nerve and serotonin.

 

[Astolfo]

Add ginger powder to your coffee.

Ginger inhibits the vagus nerve and serotonin.

I tried ginger (ground, fresh, and both) and it did nothing.

Any idea why my copper possibly depleted after short term SSRI usage? My first symptom occured after 1 month on 10 mg fluoxetine and things never stopped gettings worse till this day. Something must be stuck in permanent loop or something. I don't think any kind of nutritional deficiency is enough to explain this.

 

[aliml]

Any idea why my copper possibly depleted after short term SSRI usage? My first symptom occured after 1 month on 10 mg fluoxetine and things never stopped gettings worse till this day. Something must be stuck in permanent loop or something. I don't think any kind of nutritional deficiency is enough to explain this.

Copper is absorbed in the stomach and duodenum, stored in the liver and excreted in the bile.
So chronic [biliary] diarrhea may leads to Copper depletion.
High Zinc increases metallothioneins, proteins that bind copper and prevent its absorption.

---

Both Coffee and Potatoes can stimulate the secretion of cholecystokinin (CCK), a hormone that stimulates the release of enzymes and bile from the gallbladder and pancreas into the intestine.

CCK: The Bad​

People with IBS are more likely to release too much CCK (a gut hormone) in response to a fat-rich meal [1].

CCK is the culprit that causes gas soon after eating [1].

This might be because CCK activates the vagus nerve or because CCK directly interacts with the hypothalamus to stimulate the flow of your colon, which will cause gas [5].

CCK increases bloating and decreases stomach acid secretion, which slows digestion. It decreases stomach acid by increasing bicarbonate [6].

Regarding IBS, CCK causes gut pain hypersensitivity [7].

In humans, CCK causes nausea and anxiety. In fact, in the research, it’s used to induce panic attacks in people [8].

CCK activates your stress response [9].

Specifically, CCK increases CRH (bad stress hormone) [10] prolactin (anxiety hormone), ACTH and cortisol [11]. More ACTH is released in response to CCK when CRH is present [12]. It also increases aldosterone secretion, which will increase blood pressure and cause salt retention [13].

Eventually, CCK leads to the release of 3alpha, 5alpha-THDOC (GABAA agonist), which combats its anxiety-producing effects [14]. However, I suspect that this mechanism might be defective in some people.

The effects of CCK vary between individuals. For example, in rats, CCK is more effective at reducing hunger in adult males (compared to younger rats and female rats). The hunger-suppressive effects of CCK also are reduced in obese rats [8].

If your stress response is activated chronically (chronic CRH), that makes the anxiety effects of CCK worse and this leads to ‘hypersensitive emotional circuitry’. This is the case even if CRH isn’t elevated at the time of CCK secretion [15].

More interestingly, CCK causes sleepiness/fatigue (despite the fact that it activates orexin) [16].

CCK (8) inhibits hypothalamic noradrenaline transmission, which is a plausible mechanism for CCK’s fatigue-inducing an appetite-suppressing effect [17].

CCK causes both hotness and coldness [16], which I experience when I eat lectins and this could be some of the reason why.

CCK induces drug tolerance to morphine and heroin [8], so if you’re a high CCK producer, stay away from that stuff like the plague.

CCK Positives & Negatives, Function & Lectin Sensitivity - SelfHacked

CCK is linked to post-meal fatigue, IBS, & lectin sensitivity. Learn more about the positive & negatives of CCK & it's role in lectin sensitivity.

selfhack.com

 

[Perry Staltic]

High Zinc increases metallothioneins, proteins that bind copper and prevent its absorption.

Selenium supposedly releases Zn from metallothioneins. Not sure if it does the same with Cu

 

[danishstargazer]

im sure you wont agree with me but ...... if i had ANY kind of brain thing going on - I would go coffee coffee coffee and here is how I would do it. Start with only having it with a full meal , and then move it up to twice a day , then add it between meals and try all kinds. I drink espresso - always with cream or half and half with organic sugar or honey. coffee for me works as a total brain booster - and i dont take any supplements ( even D ) but i do eat a varied diet. i have a hard time with coffee when i only drink a little bit of it .. it is kind of like dairy for me ... i need to keep drinking it to be able to tolerate it . if i stop i have problems. life on coffee / cream / sugar is a fun one.

 

[Lampshard]

Sorry, but you mention "chronic hunger", coffee is a really potent stimulant of the metabolism, have you tried just eating truly a *shitton* of food? Like this is why fish oil helps some people, it slows down the metabolism, alleviating any nutritional deficiencies short-term. Maybe have some coffee and then just eat as much as you're able to, liver, well-cooked potatoes with butter, just anything you love. I think hunger can almost always be something good if "used" productively. Good luck

 

[danishstargazer]

I so agree @Lampshard - if you are actually hungry- eat eat eat till you are not. I think a lot of people have some kind of insulin thing or low blood sugar thing that feels like hunger but it not actually hunger. Interesting about fish oil.

 

[Astolfo]

@aliml My ACTH and cortisol are lowish. Do you think it's possible to have them low together with excess CCK?

And, if that is the problem, what am I going to do?

I was on fluoxetine only for 30 days and I don't remember having any diarrhea at that time. I don't think any nutritional depletion (except electrolytes maybe) is possible under a month.

@Lampshard @danishstargazer This has nothing to do with usual hunger that normal people feel. Eating more doesn't help. Even sometimes it makes it worse (if I eat meat, I get worse in every symptom for example)

@redsun Any idea why I cannot hold on to copper? My ceruloplasmin is dangerously low and progesterone is sky high. I remember reading somewhere that potassium and copper holds onto each other in cell. Maybe that's the problem?

Or maybe allopregnanolone just wrecked my brain, because fluoxetine increases allopregnanolone. It also inhibits retinol dehydrogenase. I think fluoxetine gave me similar kind of disease to that Post Accutane disorder

 

[redsun]

@aliml My ACTH and cortisol are lowish. Do you think it's possible to have them low together with excess CCK?

And, if that is the problem, what am I going to do?

I was on fluoxetine only for 30 days and I don't remember having any diarrhea at that time. I don't think any nutritional depletion (except electrolytes maybe) is possible under a month.

@Lampshard @danishstargazer This has nothing to do with usual hunger that normal people feel. Eating more doesn't help. Even sometimes it makes it worse (if I eat meat, I get worse in every symptom for example)

@redsun Any idea why I cannot hold on to copper? My ceruloplasmin is dangerously low and progesterone is sky high. I remember reading somewhere that potassium and copper holds onto each other in cell. Maybe that's the problem?

You just don't get as much copper as you actually need to improve copper status. You may need a considerable amount of copper to see improvement. Certain fruits and vegetables and starches (basically plant foods) are good sources of copper. Someone who needs copper needs a lot more than the average person who is not deficient.

You need to avoid high histamine meats and other foods (red meats tend to be but ground beef I believe is not) to get rid of your food reactions. Chicken and eggs for animal protein and find plant food sources for copper that you want to eat. Liver's high vitamin A content will worsen cognitive and motor problems so it needs to be avoided probably. But it depends on you, how do you do with liver or do you eat it all?

You have histamine reactions and you have low ceruloplasmin. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. If you have a lot of undermethylation symptoms you may need methyl donors. Choline from supplements or lecithin can improve your CNS related symptoms.

How is your physical endurance? Do you tire easily from exerting yourself?

 

[Perry Staltic]

It may be that you have enough copper, but not enough means to release Cu ions from their metallothionein transporter proteins. Selenium releases Zn from metallothioneins, making it bioavailable. Perhaps it is the same with Cu, but I haven't been able to verify that. Cu, Zn and Sn all compete for the same transporter proteins, I believe, and I also think metallothionein has a greater affinity for Cu..