Neck muscle cramps with lower progesterone...

[arinryan]

I am experimenting with no Progest-e, to see how I do with just NDT and a Peat oriented diet. I had taken about 5-10 drops progest-e daily, no cycle breaks, for close to a year...and thought a period might be a good idea for a change!

Anyway, I am doing fairly well, although no period yet, and no real PMS symptoms except terrible muscle cramps in my neck That was one of the things I was so glad to get rid of by taking Progest-e... I wondered if it was somehow hormone related, since it seemed cyclical, but was never sure. My mom used to get this kind of stiff neck too when she was my age. (late 30s)
I haven't been able to get rid of it (just on one side, from my neck down to mid back on the side I tend to sleep on) this whole week... epsom salts soak helped for a little while last night, but it came back with a vengeance today :!: Hope someone might have some suggestions?

I know Progest-e again would help. I just keep thinking its not a good idea to go without a period for so long.

 

[Peata]

I am experimenting with no Progest-e, to see how I do with just NDT and a Peat oriented diet. I had taken about 5-10 drops progest-e daily, no cycle breaks, for close to a year...and thought a period might be a good idea for a change!

Anyway, I am doing fairly well, although no period yet, and no real PMS symptoms except terrible muscle cramps in my neck That was one of the things I was so glad to get rid of by taking Progest-e... I wondered if it was somehow hormone related, since it seemed cyclical, but was never sure. My mom used to get this kind of stiff neck too when she was my age. (late 30s)
I haven't been able to get rid of it (just on one side, from my neck down to mid back on the side I tend to sleep on) this whole week... epsom salts soak helped for a little while last night, but it came back with a vengeance today :!: Hope someone might have some suggestions?

I know Progest-e again would help. I just keep thinking its not a good idea to go without a period for so long.

Wow, I have suffered from that same neck problem since mid-late 30s. I take 70+ drops Progest E per day no break for almost a month now. I still had a period this month. I hope Progest E helps my neck problem too.

So it controlled all your other hormonal symptoms, only you didn't get a period?

 

[Blossom]

Maybe you could rub a couple drops of Progest-e on topically where you have pain combined with some coconut oil. I don't think enough would be absorbed into your body to interfere with your cycle when applied that way. RP has written about using it topically for arthritic pain with success. If you try it and it works let us know!

 

[aguilaroja]

I am experimenting with no Progest-e, to see how I do with just NDT and a Peat oriented diet. I had taken about 5-10 drops progest-e daily, no cycle breaks, for close to a year...and thought a period might be a good idea for a change!

Anyway, I am doing fairly well, although no period yet,,, except terrible muscle cramps in my neck That was one of the things I was so glad to get rid of by taking Progest-e...
...just on one side, from my neck down to mid back on the side I tend to sleep on) this whole week... epsom salts soak helped for a little while last night...

Is the cramping pain constant or does it come and go?
When you say cramping does that refer "only" to cramping pain, or do you feel a difference in muscle texture or neck motion?
Are things better or worse at certain times of day?
Does movement or activity make things better or worse?
Do you notice any other changes in symptoms?
What route have you been using Progest-e (gums/oral/topical to what region) and at what time(s) of day?
What is the amount and timing of the NDT? When was the last NDT does change?
Do you use aspirin for metabolism or other things?

 

[arinryan]

Thanks so much for the helpful replies! I definitely had improvement in this with progest-e, Peata...hope it works for you! I think I tend towards low hormone levels in general, that dose seemed to be enough. (My period has always been light, and I never needed more than the very lowest dose birth control pills to keep it away when I was dumb enough to take those )

I was thinking about these answers to aguilaroja's questions and I realized I have not had a period in about 4 years. I stopped taking spironolactone (an aldosterone antagonist) in March as well, I took 50-100 mg all fall and winter, as I have for about 10 years. Its usual side effect is more periods! Hmm...

Is the cramping pain constant or does it come and go?
When you say cramping does that refer "only" to cramping pain, or do you feel a difference in muscle texture or neck motion?
Are things better or worse at certain times of day?
Does movement or activity make things better or worse?
Do you notice any other changes in symptoms?
What route have you been using Progest-e (gums/oral/topical to what region) and at what time(s) of day?
What is the amount and timing of the NDT? When was the last NDT does change?
Do you use aspirin for metabolism or other things?

My neck muscles are very tight, so that I am hesitant to move it much--if I turn in certain directions, there can be a sharp pain with the turning motion. I try to do slow stretching to relieve this, but that doesn't seem to help it feel better. It feels quite "hard", difficult to massage, and massage just tends to make it feel more sore.

It was very sore yesterday evening, and in the morning. It seems to calm a bit in the middle of the day.
I tried sun salutations yesterday, and a 2 hour walk...the walk was mid-day and may have helped a bit. Yoga not so much.

My progest-e dosage: I generally would take 3 drops progest-e on gums, plus 2-3 drops on skin before I go to bed--usually hands, feet, or face depending on where I think wants it most. I only take it before bed, or 2-3 more drops on gums in the middle of the night. I took this every night since at least last summer. Before that, not every night but probably 3 times a week. I first started taking it in June 2008.

I have taken 1/2 grain of NDT for 2 months, before that about 1/3 grain...I was upping the dose gradually from my start at 1/16th in February, when I was beginning to try it out.
I quit taking progest-e at the beginning of May, but I took it my usual way one night last week when the neck pain started, and I tried 4-5 drops on the sorest muscle last night. (I had that brainwave too, thanks Blossom! ) In the morning the neck stiffness hadn't changed.. although I think now, 8-10 hours later, its subsiding a bit. I have had heat packs on it as well.

I took 3 aspirin mid day yesterday. It felt a bit better for an hour or so. I generally use aspirin only for pain relief, so not regularly, although if I take it usually at least 1 gram (3 or 4 aspirins). Do you think more would be helpful?

I have been treating an skin infection for several months with topical iodide tincture, 3-4 drops on my skin 3 times a day. Not sure if that is relevant or not.

Thank you so much for the great help!

 

[aguilaroja]

...I realized I have not had a period in about 4 years. I stopped taking spironolactone (an aldosterone antagonist) in March as well, I took 50-100 mg all fall and winter, as I have for about 10 years....

There are many possible discussion points. I will mention just a couple for the moment.

It could be that the main issue here is "bio-mechanical" neck pain, not directly resulting from a lag with decreased progesterone. For instance, it could be that with less progesterone, sleep was less refreshing and there was awkward neck position one overnight, leaving a neck strain/soft tissue injury. Relief with gentle activity, stretching, supportive positioning, gentle massage, topical heat tends to suggest that scenario.

Topical progesterone will help relieve whether the difficulty is more bio-mechanical or metabolic. Blossom suggested the measure and it sounds like its already underway. Sometimes good quality topical vitamin E by itself will be relieving. The rate of delivery of topically applied progesterone is slower and more variable than applied, say, to the gums. So it's harder to say how swiftly that application will approach the previous intake.

If it's been 4 years since cyclic menses and the concern is a flare (here, the neck stuff) from too swift withdrawal, you could on this 28ish day cycle estimate simply begin earlier than day 14 this time. Then you might work toward 2 week on, 2 week off applications in future cycles. If symptoms resolve promptly on resuming regular dosing, the nature of the flare is clearer.

Even at a small amount, it is better to divide the NDT into multiple increments to keep the T3 equivalent amounts low throughout the day. More context is needed to understand what role thyroid support might play. The use of and indications for spironolactone would be one part of the picture.

While aspirin is useful for some in supporting metabolism, it might be best to postpone this other than for (if tolerated) pain relief while the recent questions resolve.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Arinryan...for what it is worth, I get the exact same neck pain that you describe when my thyroid is low. Mine started in my late 20's, I am 47 now and the only thing that has helped over the years is making certain that my thyroid meds are optimized and metabolism is good. Also, not sure if this applies to you, but foods in the nightshade family can cause inflammation for some people. Do you have any other signs of inflammation?

 

[arinryan]

Ok, this is all so helpful, I can't thank you guys enough, especially aguilaroja.

I will definitely stick with a good thyroid dose this summer (divided up through the day) and try just 12-14 day breaks in progest-e, and try using topical vitamin e on my neck if its flaring again during the no-progesterone time...the pain seems to be on its way out today.
It would be nice if thyroid helped get me over the progesterone hurdle, it seems to be helping me a lot in other ways.

 

[aguilaroja]

...I get the exact same neck pain that you describe when my thyroid is low. Mine started in my late 20's, I am 47 now and the only thing that has helped over the years is making certain that my thyroid meds are optimized and metabolism is good....

It's an excellent point: General metabolism enhancement also relieves some regional and focal issues. Sometimes, pretty "vanilla" conventional medical treatments don't work well because a person is very depleted, but the depletion does not fall into stereotypical medical categories. Some of the conventional treatments might otherwise work effectively, in a resilient person.