NDT dose timing

[jerry.j]

I'm confused on ideal dose timing for NDT.

Some threads here and sources elsewhere suggest taking split doses in the morning and again in the afternoon. But other sources indicate that the natural circadian rhythm of T3 follows TSH and peaks in the early morning - which would pretty much be the inverse of what occurs when taking during the day.

I tried morning and afternoon dosing as well as only morning. Both seemed to cause me sleep problems where I would wake up at 2am for hours before being able to go back to sleep.

Last night I tried taking it before bed which seemed to cause me vivid dreams (was able to go back to sleep when I woke up at 2am) but then today, I felt a bit tired in the morning and progressively worse each hour until evening (now) and I feel completely exhausted.

I'm not clear on how T3 is stimulating yet the body naturally makes more of it while you are sleeping. Any suggestions for what to try?

 

[Vileplume]

T3 is energizing to your body’s cells, which therefore makes it easier for your body to relax. Stressed and energy depleted cells become fibrotic and rigid, and they can’t relax. This is why hypothyroidism leads to insomnia a lot of the time.

The NDT causing insomnia could be for several different reasons, but it seems like it’s causing an adrenaline reaction, possibly by lowering blood sugar. Have you taken your temperature and pulse on these thyroid days and seem how thyroid affects them? Also, how’s your mood when you take thyroid? Do you feel relaxed or overwhelmed?

If it’s not low blood sugar, the T4 component of NDT could be causing RT3 (reverse T3) which could block the thyroid from becoming active and reaching the cells. Do you consume enough calories and sugar when you take thyroid? Have you ever tried a higher ratio of T3:T4?

Also, welcome to the forum!

 

[ReSTART]

I've only tried it during the day but I'm going to try before bed

 

[jerry.j]

The NDT causing insomnia could be for several different reasons, but it seems like it’s causing an adrenaline reaction, possibly by lowering blood sugar. Have you taken your temperature and pulse on these thyroid days and seem how thyroid affects them? Also, how’s your mood when you take thyroid? Do you feel relaxed or overwhelmed?

My temperature seemed to drop a few days into taking NDT. Had been about 97 average, now it's about 96.7. At least for the first few days, I believe I felt good for a number of hours after taking it. Definitely did not feel overwhelmed.

If it’s not low blood sugar, the T4 component of NDT could be causing RT3 (reverse T3) which could block the thyroid from becoming active and reaching the cells. Do you consume enough calories and sugar when you take thyroid? Have you ever tried a higher ratio of T3:T4?

I've taken it with normal sized meals and also experimented with taking it before breakfast. I'm not using a standardized T3:T4 dose and this is the first time I've using a thyroid supplement at all.

Also, welcome to the forum!

Thanks! And thank you for your response.

 

[Vileplume]

My temperature seemed to drop a few days into taking NDT. Had been about 97 average, now it's about 96.7. At least for the first few days, I believe I felt good for a number of hours after taking it. Definitely did not feel overwhelmed.


I've taken it with normal sized meals and also experimented with taking it before breakfast. I'm not using a standardized T3:T4 dose and this is the first time I've using a thyroid supplement at all.

Thanks! And thank you for your response.

How has the NDT affected your heart rate? When you felt exhausted the day after dosing the NDT at night, was your heart rate low or higher than usual? If the former, it could be a reduction in stress hormones (if so, continue taking it!), or if the latter, it could be an increase in stress hormones (in which case, try eating more nutrient-rich foods if you can, or try small doses of T3-only to first lower the stress hormones before trying NDT).

When I first tried NDT, I had a stress response after two days where my heart rate skyrocketed. T3-only for a bit helped me ease into NDT the next time I tried. It sounds like you didn’t have this same stress response through, so if your heart rate lowered when you felt exhausted then that’s a good sign.

If the insomnia and bad feelings persist for a week or so when you take thyroid, especially if you have increased heart rate, I’d recommend upping the T3 a bit with something like idealabs / haidut’s Tyronene, diluted down with MCT oil so that it’s just 1-2 mcg per drop.

 

[jerry.j]

Unfortunately I don't track heart rate because I found it was very stable at all points during the day. I did not take NDT at all yesterday but still had a lot of trouble with sleep and feel pretty bad today. Heart rate might be a bit lower than usual but again, I don't track it consistently, and I'm checking at a random point in the day right now vs. consistently on waking. It's definitely not significantly higher than normal, I can say that with certainty.

I've been taking a low dose of NDT for about a week and a half now.

 

[Vileplume]

Unfortunately I don't track heart rate because I found it was very stable at all points during the day. I did not take NDT at all yesterday but still had a lot of trouble with sleep and feel pretty bad today. Heart rate might be a bit lower than usual but again, I don't track it consistently, and I'm checking at a random point in the day right now vs. consistently on waking. It's definitely not significantly higher than normal, I can say that with certainty.

I've been taking a low dose of NDT for about a week and a half now.

If heart rate is not higher I would reasonably infer that you’re not getting a stress reaction, so I would recommend sticking with a consistent dosage and timing for a few weeks. Broda Barnes wrote that with NDT, benefits often don’t occur until a month or so in to treatment.

The insomnia should improve as your body adjusts to the consistent dose.

 

[jerry.j]

@Vileplume Thanks for your help! I will try that.

I don't want to interrupt my sleep so I'm thinking the safest right now would be a single dose with the first meal. Any thoughts on timing?

 

[Vileplume]

@Vileplume Thanks for your help! I will try that.

I don't want to interrupt my sleep so I'm thinking the safest right now would be a single dose with the first meal. Any thoughts on timing?

Glad to help. As long as that single big dose doesn’t cause you any adrenaline issues, it should be fine. As I understand it, NDT gets released more slowly than synthetic, but for some people it could still be too much at once. How much is a single dose?

If you haven’t yet, I’d also recommend reading Dr. Peat’s articles about supplementing thyroid, from his website. Here’s one:

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[jerry.j]

One capsule is 30mg. No standardized T3:T4 as said before. I had been experimenting with only taking portions of it and splitting that during the day.

I will read that, thank you.

 

[routepitcher]

Hey jerry,

Did you end up feeling better/getting this resolved?