Natural Ways To Increase Serotonin Transporter

[Mr. Sick]

Hey there,
what kind of options do we have to boost the serotonin transporter aka SERT aka 5-htt?
This would be pretty much the opposite of the supposed main mechanism of SSRI. I want SERT to increase, so it ejects serotonin and have it be less effect.

I know of Bacopa, Berberine and estrogen. Increasing estrogen is not favorable for obvious reasons. But I am not happy with berberine or bacopa either because they also increase Serotonin. Berberine does so by inhibiting MAO und bacopa, even worse, is increasing tryptophan hydroxylase and boosting serotonin quite a bit.

Are there any other options?

 

[ladyhawke]

Having taken SSRIs and feel lingering effects over a year later I was searching in the forum along those lines and found;

Zinc increases serotonin uptake, here:

Zinc Acts Similar To Tianeptine And Blocks SSRI Drug Effects

Although :

(quote from this Ray Peat article
The transparency of life: Cataracts as a model of age-related disease)

"Several years ago, I saw what appeared to be oxidant-induced cataracts. Two women had a very sudden onset of cataracts, and I asked about their diet and supplements; it turned out that one of them had begun taking 500 mg of zinc daily a few months earlier, and the other had begun tak-ing 600 mg of zinc and 250 mg of iron, on her doctor’s recommendation, just a couple of months before the cataracts appeared."


The oxidation may be due to impurities- zinc often contaminated with cadmium:

Zinc Supplements - Clarification On Ray's Comment

Best to get zinc from foods then. A little difficult for me being a veggie.

:)

 

[Frankdee20]

Having taken SSRIs and feel lingering effects over a year later I was searching in the forum along those lines and found;

Zinc increases serotonin uptake, here:

Zinc Acts Similar To Tianeptine And Blocks SSRI Drug Effects

Although :

(quote from this Ray Peat article
The transparency of life: Cataracts as a model of age-related disease)

"Several years ago, I saw what appeared to be oxidant-induced cataracts. Two women had a very sudden onset of cataracts, and I asked about their diet and supplements; it turned out that one of them had begun taking 500 mg of zinc daily a few months earlier, and the other had begun tak-ing 600 mg of zinc and 250 mg of iron, on her doctor’s recommendation, just a couple of months before the cataracts appeared."


The oxidation may be due to impurities- zinc often contaminated with cadmium:

Zinc Supplements - Clarification On Ray's Comment

Best to get zinc from foods then. A little difficult for me being a veggie.

:)

Pumpkin seeds supply 5 mg zinc per serving

 

[ladyhawke]

Thank you :) I wonder whether the fact that they make me feel nauseous is a sign of anything. Like low zinc or high copper.

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, you're not wrong. Occasionally, a half cup or more elicited nausea in me. Can't say I know why, the toasted ones taste better though. Could be the awkward taste, high fat content, etc. They also supply good amount of magnesium, almost half the RDA. I recall reading that they're known to expell intestinal parasites or something, so maybe they're powerful enough to make one queezy.

 

[lampofred]

Serotonin transporter depends on salt, so increasing salt intake will help. Coffee also. And zinc as has been mentioned. And caloric intake in general.

 

[ddjd]

Is raising dopamine one way of reducing Serotonin?

 

[Frankdee20]

Is raising dopamine one way of reducing Serotonin?

Theoretically, lol.

 

[General Orange]

Hey there,
... und bacopa, even worse, is increasing tryptophan hydroxylase and boosting serotonin quite a bit.

Are there any other options?

Why bad? Seems to me that increasing tryptophan hydroxylase, that is THP-2 for Bacopa (TPH2 is primarily expressed in the serotonergic neurons of the brain) is a good way to use the high tryptophan from meat etc. for increased serotonin for the brain...

I understand serotonin in body is not that welcome, but boost of it in brain is good for mood, hence MDMA / SSRI are a form of amphetamine that boosts mood, where SSRI also enhances the allopregnanolone in the brain.

Therefore, Bacopa -> increase in THP2 -> Increase mood = better use for Tryptophan :)

 

[Frankdee20]

Why bad? Seems to me that increasing tryptophan hydroxylase, that is THP-2 for Bacopa (TPH2 is primarily expressed in the serotonergic neurons of the brain) is a good way to use the high tryptophan from meat etc. for increased serotonin for the brain...

I understand serotonin in body is not that welcome, but boost of it in brain is good for mood, hence MDMA / SSRI are a form of amphetamine that boosts mood, where SSRI also enhances the allopregnanolone in the brain.

Therefore, Bacopa -> increase in THP2 -> Increase mood = better use for Tryptophan :)

Yes and No, depends, some Serotonin brain receptors, and the increase of Serotonin activity there, is theoretically better than other spots. Must think of this as individual networks, not overall activity

 

[Frankdee20]

Overall though, Serotonin receptors are generally stimulating, and akin to stress responses. Only a few are benefiting the psyche.

 

[General Orange]

Overall though, Serotonin receptors are generally stimulating, and akin to stress responses. Only a few are benefiting the psyche.

Yes and No, depends, some Serotonin brain receptors, and the increase of Serotonin activity there, is theoretically better than other spots. Must think of this as individual networks, not overall activity

Bacopa has anxiolytic and memory enhancing effects that have been experienced by users practically. But has drowsiness as side effect.

 

[Frankdee20]

Bacopa has anxiolytic and memory enhancing effects that have been experienced by users practically. But has drowsiness as side effect.

Bacopa May also effect acetylcholinisterase, these plants rarely effect one transmitter

 

[Mito]

"Several years ago, I saw what appeared to be oxidant-induced cataracts. Two women had a very sudden onset of cataracts, and I asked about their diet and supplements; it turned out that one of them had begun taking 500 mg of zinc daily a few months earlier, and the other had begun tak-ing 600 mg of zinc and 250 mg of iron, on her doctor’s recommendation, just a couple of months before the cataracts appeared."

500 or 600 mg of zinc? Supplemental zinc is generally taken at 30 mg or less. A dose around 50 mg will begin to significantly reduce copper absorption.

 

[General Orange]

Just found out that "Increasing TPH will make more 5-HTP, which will occupy the aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase enzyme more, which means that L-DOPA will bind less, making dopamine production fall." link
So Bacopa is a good attention booster but can give a loss of motivation, apathy, lethargic.
Maybe a good supplement for hyperactive persons.

Also interesting is "One study measuring hindbrain levels of acetylcholine noted an increase to 110% of the control rats.[23] Bacopa Monnieri also appears to have anticholinesterase properties by inhibiting the acetylcholinesterase enzyme, ...[50]

 

[General Orange]

Hey there,
what kind of options do we have to boost the serotonin transporter aka SERT aka 5-htt?
This would be pretty much the opposite of the supposed main mechanism of SSRI. I want SERT to increase, so it ejects serotonin and have it be less effect.

I know of Bacopa, Berberine and estrogen. Increasing estrogen is not favorable for obvious reasons. But I am not happy with berberine or bacopa either because they also increase Serotonin. Berberine does so by inhibiting MAO und bacopa, even worse, is increasing tryptophan hydroxylase and boosting serotonin quite a bit.

Are there any other options?

I'm not sure if you want to reduce serotonin by boosting the serotonin transporter in the first place.

You want to decrease the serotonin turnover and indirectly increase MOA Inhibition.

Tryptophan isn’t just converted by TPH into 5-HTP, there are also other enzymes which convert it down an alternative pathway tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase or TDO.

St. John’s Wort functions by blocking TDO activity, which then forces more tryptophan to be processed by TPH.

Apperently in this way St. John's Wort "...decreases serotonin turnover in all the brain areas (hypothalamus, hippocampus amygdala) in stressed rats endorsing its monoamine oxidase inhibition property." link

 

[Lokzo]

No matter how hard I try, Zinc, ALWAYS lowers my libido, for up 3 days after dosing. Any form.

I can't figure out why.

Really pisses me off.

 

[Sativa]

No matter how hard I try, Zinc, ALWAYS lowers my libido, for up 3 days after dosing. Any form.
I can't figure out why.

Why are you taking zinc in the first place?

fyi, Zinc is handy for it's potent psychoactive stimulant-dissociative properties...

Involves dopamine, gutamate & serotonin actions.

eg. Zinc works like amphetamine on the dopamine transporter, implying it reverses the transporter flow, which normally funnels Dopamine away from the synapse & into 'storage'.
Reversing flow pumps Dopamine into the synapse where it can activate all the dopamine receptors. (this is responsible for Zn induced nausea btw)

Zinc is also an AMPA agonist; NMDA anatagonist (aka glutamate blocker) - this action increases the 'performance' of the psychoactive Dopamine D2 receptor system. (all NMDA antagonists up-regulate the D2 system). NMDA antagonism also increases 5-HT1A binding/receptor function.
(iirc ketamine, agmatine & poss memantine possess identical AMPA-ag & NMDA-antag properties)
(If I were to use Zinc, it'd be for its potent psychoactive stimulant properties)

Serotonin activity:
Zinc may serve as a possible allosteric modulator of 5-HT1A receptors, capable of inhibiting both agonist and antagonist binding at relevant concentrations in the synapse (Prakash et al., 2015). Another way that zinc may interact with the serotonergic system is via the previously mentioned GPR39 receptor.
‎

also, just like memantine & (the notorious recreational dissociative) ketamine, Zinc seems to possess:

Inhibitory actions at nAChR (nicotinic cholinergic receptor)
Modulation of GSK3β (glycogen synthase kinase 3beta)
(and NMDA inhibition + BDNF stimulation as mentioned above)
​

someone's 'Zinc experience report':

75 mg of Zinc Picolinate is the sweet spot for me. It produces mild bodily euphoria and mental euphoria comparable to phenethylamine...
It is very enjoyable and makes me extremely talkative and hyper.
100 mg reduces the euphoria slightly, enhances bodily pain signals, starts to hit the nausea receptors.
Too bad it also hits the nausea receptors and boosts pain conductance at higher doses.​

 

[Lokzo]

Why are you taking zinc in the first place?

fyi, Zinc is handy for it's potent psychoactive stimulant-dissociative properties...

also, just like memantine & (the notorious recreational dissociative) ketamine, Zinc seems to possess:

Inhibitory actions at nAChR (nicotinic cholinergic receptor)
Modulation of GSK3β (glycogen synthase kinase 3beta)
(and NMDA inhibition + BDNF stimulation as mentioned above)
​

someone's 'Zinc experience report':

75 mg of Zinc Picolinate is the sweet spot for me. It produces mild bodily euphoria and mental euphoria comparable to phenethylamine...
It is very enjoyable and makes me extremely talkative and hyper.
100 mg reduces the euphoria slightly, enhances bodily pain signals, starts to hit the nausea receptors.
Too bad it also hits the nausea receptors and boosts pain conductance at higher doses.​

Suspected Zinc deficiency, however, now I purely rely on getting it from foods alone. Supplementing Zinc is only problematic for me.

 

[moa]

i don't think we are supposed to take that much.

zinc is needed 15mg per day. we don't store in the body for long term so we need to take it often.

with zinc it's important to get the right amount, if you get much more it will cause problems.

for a deficiency you can take 30mg. if you take more like 60mg it can cause problems after a few weeks so maybe take only one week then 30mg and finally 15mg after one month.

if you get lethargy symptoms stop zinc and take only copper 1mg 6 times par day for 2 weeks, then 2mg par day until fine.

15mg zinc should be very safe long term with 2mg copper.