"Natural" Gut Flora May Cause Multiple Sclerosis (MS) and Lupus

[Blossom]

Do you have any suggestion for what to use against accidental poisons? I'll keep looking.

If you're concerned about brown recluse spider bites you could ask the doctor who prescribed the floroquinolone antibiotic if a tetracycline or penicillin would be an adequate substitute or maybe someone else here on the forum might know? Sorry I can't be of more help with that question.

 

[tara]

Doesn't the "healthy" bacteria in yogurt not even survive the stomach and small intestine though?

That was my impression too.

So is it safe to use a Tablespoon of eggshell calcium

That sounds like a huge dose to take in one go. Half a tsp is quite a big dose to take at one time. I 'd be dubious about taking a whole tablespoon at once.

 

[tara]

I'm not up on those spider poisons, so maybe stronger remedies are needed, but I wonder if an activated charcoal poultice would help draw out poison from a bite fast enough to be useful?

 

[whit]

I'm not up on those spider poisons, so maybe stronger remedies are needed, but I wonder if an activated charcoal poultice would help draw out poison from a bite fast enough to be useful?

Not to wander too far off topic but...
We live in a high brown recluse spider zone and I will attest to the effectiveness of activated charcoal poultice. My mother had a really bad incident with multiple Bites. Black cohosh and goldenseal were also administered.
She was fine by morning.

 

[tara]

We live in a high brown recluse spider zone and I will attest to the effectiveness of activated charcoal poultice. My mother had a really bad incident with multiple Bites. Black cohosh and goldenseal were also administered.
She was fine by morning.

Nice. :)

 

[Westside PUFAs]

In 1998, Nenonen tested the effects of an uncooked vegan diet, rich in lactobacilli, in rheumatoid patients randomized into diet and control groups. The intervention group experienced subjective relief of rheumatic symptoms during intervention. A return to an omnivorous diet aggravated symptoms. The results showed that an uncooked vegan diet, rich in lactobacilli, decreased subjective symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis (Br J Rheumatol 37:274, 1998).

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/37/3/274.full.pdf

 

[Parsifal]

Glyphosate can be more harmful than gut bacteria and may contribute to MS

It is present even in refined sugar.

Really? Something to read on the topic?

 

[Lyn]

Because of its variability, MS is a notoriously difficult disease to study, either to prove a cause or to devise effective treatments. There are at least three forms: relapsing-remitting (the most common), a rapidly moving progressive form, and a slowly moving progressive form. The father of one of my friends was diagnosed with MS, then didn’t have any more symptoms for thirty years. Another friend is no longer living, in spite of the disease modifying drugs. So when I read “…the animals with sterile guts in the study were completely protected from developing MS,” I think, “well, at least for the duration of the study.”



Over the years, a lot of things have been set forth as causes or potential cures for MS. Many of these ideas have reflected the prevailing “wisdom” of the the time. So I’m not surprised that there’s now a focus on gut bacteria.



I’ve read a fair amount of Ray Peat’s output, but still have to read his ideas on MS.



Personally, I sometimes wonder about the whole “autoimmune” idea as the cause for so many different diseases and conditions. I wonder if the convenience of tossing them all into the “autoimmune” basket might discourage further research into the individual maladies.

 

[BibleBeliever]

there seems to be very good evidence for fecal transplants. You can't sterilize the gut. you have to have something there. The key is the balance and how to reach the balance.

I've gotten benefit from bifido probiotics. And occasional use of S. Boulardii.

I've noticed the benefit too from bifido.
Anything with Lactobacillus acidophilus seems to give toxic effects.

I read on here: Home-Low Oxalate Diet

"Lactobacillus acidophilus deprived of its usual food, may be able to “eat” oxalate, but too much oxalate in its diet may kill it off. This may explain why certain people have great difficulty colonizing lactobacillus acidophilus, despite constant use of probiotics containing it."

They theorize that excessive oxalates cause issues with it. A diet high in vitamin c and fructose increases oxalic acid.
I wonder if these parameters are one reason why so many have issue with it.

Back in the day I used to drink 1-2 liters of homemade kefir a day. After time I noticed it increased the need for sugar. However many times it gave the best digestion I ever had in my life. It also gave incredible energy many times.

Now even 5ml of kefir; whether home-made or storebought exhibits extraordinarily allergic/toxic effects. I can't figure it out. It causes some sort of deposit in the joints; mostly the shoulders and wrists and sometimes even muscles. Deposits that seizure up the area, and when you rotate them around and stretch frequently they snap and crackle constantly and if you do it enough the locked joint becomes unseized.

Balkan yogurt with the acidophilus exhibits an effect like this but on a very minor scale to kefir.
Bifido yogurt though reacts quite well so far. I try to consume some when I have k2, on the theory that since good bacteria produce k2 out of k1, perhaps they also help the absorption and utilization of it.

There are times when consuming bifido yogurt that bursts of great stamina and strength come.

However I have not been able to achieve that super digestion that a well fermented kefir used to give. I have considered buying a yogurt maker on amazon, as they allow you to choose temperatures. I noticed that home-made kefir would produce the super-effects in the heat of the summer, so perhaps the temperature of fermentation is key for this effect.
For example TMI: sometimes it would produce a stool that would take the entire toilet bowl, several feet long, sometimes 5 feet. With the full width possible. I would feel like a king afterwards. There was nothing like it. It would also cause extraordinary happiness and laughing. I know there are many studies talking about good bacteria effecting mental health, so there seems to be something to this.

Otherwise perhaps heavy metals or other toxins in the body effect our ability to process them? Maybe cancer too? Maybe the so-called leakiness factor is what causes issue if true; probiotics leaking into the blood or perhaps even by persorption and become very toxic in the blood stream?

It is a wonder as cultures of old consumed them regularly. So much to learn.

 

[Mito]

Human gut microbe may lead to treatment for multiple sclerosis

The researchers found that P. histicola, which is cultured from the human intestine, caused a decrease in two types of pro-inflammatory cells, while increasing families of cells that fight disease: T-cells, dendritic cells and a type of macrophage.

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30997-X

Our study shows that a human commensal from the upper gastrointestinal tract possesses potent disease-protective characteristics and provides proof of principle that human commensal gut bacteria protect against neuroinflammation.

 

[quazimodo]

Well, at one time there probably may have just been anaerobic bacteria in an non-oxygen enriched atmosphere. As time went on and the levels of oxygen increased they most likely ventured underground. It is suggested that all things may have a conscience and purpose and strive for survival. Many obvious examples would be parasites that once they take control of there host make them behave in a way contrary to there own survival. Example: mice that start friendships with cats after being infected...you know how that's going to end.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is maybe these gut bacteria use surface dwelling creatures..be it lizard, ant or human as a conduit to venture out of there former restricted environments like a traveler on a horse controlling the rains. Just a thought experiment on my part...but then again, maybe it's the bacteria in my gut? So much then for self actualized human behavior. Again, just my hypothetical mental construct.

 

[Peater Piper]

Human gut microbe may lead to treatment for multiple sclerosis

The researchers found that P. histicola, which is cultured from the human intestine, caused a decrease in two types of pro-inflammatory cells, while increasing families of cells that fight disease: T-cells, dendritic cells and a type of macrophage.

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(17)30997-X

Our study shows that a human commensal from the upper gastrointestinal tract possesses potent disease-protective characteristics and provides proof of principle that human commensal gut bacteria protect against neuroinflammation.

Good find. It goes to show that our gut flora is a complicated subject that we really don't understand.