NAFLD: Gut-Liver Axis Plays A Central Role In Its Pathogenesis

[Nicholas]

http://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(14)60980-0/abstract

 

[Nicholas]

for some reason it won't allow me to copy and paste the full link here....if you copy and paste the text of the link i gave, it should work.

 

[charlie]

post 110443 for some reason it won't allow me to copy and paste the full link here....if you copy and paste the text of the link i gave, it should work.

Just needed to put url tags around the link like this:

[url]http://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(14)60980-0/abstract[/url]

 

[narouz]

I just read the abstract, but...

I've been dealing with some problems for a couple of years,
but the gut-liver thing resonates in my case.
I started getting pretty severe heart palpitations/skips/racing
when I would try to dose up to what I needed (by signs/labs) on thyroid supps (NDT).
Haven't been able to figure it out,
but I think I may have just recently.

I hadn't thought to check my liver
because the problem arose when I hadn't been drinking at all for over a year,
and I had also been doing a very strict Peat diet.
But...labs showed NAFLD.

Through experimentation over the past half a year or so,
I've found that certain strains of probiotics stop the palpitations:
s.boulardii, l. rhamnosis, b. coagulans, l. reuteri.
So I've been able to dose up to where I should be.

Also had gut issues.
Also had a coated tongue fro about 2 or 3 years,
following antibiotics.

In addition to stopping the palpitations,
the probiotics also gave me a clean pink tongue.

My surmise is I have a yeast/fungi/candida overgrowth,
inflaming my gut,
causing permeability, serotonin, estrogen, high iron, etc.
The endotoxins end up in my liver, which gets overburdened,
and my liver causes the palpitations
(I've read that this can happen).

There are studies showing that s. boulardii, in particular, has positive actions on fatty liver.
I've posted that study here somewhere....

 

[Blossom]

viewtopic.php?p=109018#p109018
Is it this one narouz?

 

[narouz]

post 110585 viewtopic.php?p=109018#p109018
Is it this one narouz?

Yes.
Thank you, Blossom! :)

 

[Nicholas]

post 110576 My surmise is I have a yeast/fungi/candida overgrowth,
inflaming my gut,
causing permeability, serotonin, estrogen, high iron, etc.
The endotoxins end up in my liver, which gets overburdened,
and my liver causes the palpitations
(I've read that this can happen).

yes, i was just a few days ago trying to express this idea of many pathways to liver problems on the forum. not that i know anything about it hard in stone...but, like you, i perceive it to be the case....this study seemed a bit affirmative (as do your other posts). what i have right now is this strange thing where i'm showing signs of heavy estrogen with broken capillaries....that's what the studies say, at least....while at the same time, all the other estrogenic problems i've dealt with in the past have been going away and normalizing....i also show no other signs of hypothyroidism....have never felt better in every way.....fruit seems to exacerbate the problem now....it seemed to slowly come on when i began doing raw milk a couple years ago.......so i concluded that there must be something bacterial going onrecently...and also that bacterial thing possibly adding a liver burden......and in a more broad sense over all of that a basic energy disorder that i can't feel or see....and i just finished Peat's article on rosacea and, interestingly, he concludes basically the same things about what causes rosacea. i didn't do the carrots for a long time but as i've been doing them lately, i find that my skin clears and feels less inflamed (it's a very very mild feeling of inflammation to begin with)....but at the same time i sense that simply killing bacteria is only one part of it....it's intimately connected with the other systems, and with cellular health.
....i was starting to develop the broken capillary at the exact same times as i had a cough that lasted for 5 weeks....with massive bloating.....i knew in my deepest of Peatian hearts that it was serotonin/bacteria related...so i got on antibiotics and all the issues went away.....even the inflammation of the broken capillary - it even seemed to fade considerably. it's been tempting ever since to try it again, but your post gives a good case for not. when i did the antibiotics, i was eating resistant starch and lots of greek yogurt. not sure if greek yogurt has good probiotics or not.

 

[Greg says]

I just started anti-biotics... For no particular symptoms only to experiment reducing endotoxins / serotonin. The first night I had intense dreams of deep cleaning my long departed grandfathers kitchen. Using a hot power hose, getting into all the cracks and pipes removing all the muck, grease, filth and **** roaches. I woke up absolutely elated and peaceful. Went back to sleep and dreamt of washing dishes.

Ray will do anti-biotics / flowers of sulphur occasionally... I think 4 days on 2 days off. Half/ quarter of a tablet. I think it's important to take in conguntion with K2 and helped along with raw carrot.

I think maybe people's health issues are exasperated by an over burned gut liver axis from whacked out gut bacteria. I personally have never felt relief from the carrot ( only headaches) because I think it's not powerful enough if you are over burdened, the charcoal does feel effective, but nothing like the anti-biotic. I'll probably do a short, few day sessions a year as maintenance.

 

[Nicholas]

post 110590 I just started anti-biotics... For no particular symptoms only to experiment reducing endotoxins / serotonin. The first night I had intense dreams of deep cleaning my long departed grandfathers kitchen. Using a hot power hose, getting into all the cracks and pipes removing all the muck, grease, filth and **** roaches. I woke up absolutely elated and peaceful. Went back to sleep and dreamt of washing dishes.

Ray will do anti-biotics / flowers of sulphur occasionally... I think 4 days on 2 days off. Half/ quarter of a tablet. I think it's important to take in conguntion with K2 and helped along with raw carrot.

I think maybe people's health issues are exasperated by an over burned gut liver axis from whacked out gut bacteria. I personally have never felt relief from the carrot ( only headaches) because I think it's not powerful enough if you are over burdened, the charcoal does feel effective, but nothing like the anti-biotic. I'll probably do a short, few day sessions a year as maintenance.

is there a general antibiotic that Peat recommends for this kind of use?

 

[Makrosky]

I just started anti-biotics... For no particular symptoms only to experiment reducing endotoxins / serotonin. The first night I had intense dreams of deep cleaning my long departed grandfathers kitchen. Using a hot power hose, getting into all the cracks and pipes removing all the muck, grease, filth and **** roaches. I woke up absolutely elated and peaceful. Went back to sleep and dreamt of washing dishes.

Ray will do anti-biotics / flowers of sulphur occasionally... I think 4 days on 2 days off. Half/ quarter of a tablet. I think it's important to take in conguntion with K2 and helped along with raw carrot.

I think maybe people's health issues are exasperated by an over burned gut liver axis from whacked out gut bacteria. I personally have never felt relief from the carrot ( only headaches) because I think it's not powerful enough if you are over burdened, the charcoal does feel effective, but nothing like the anti-biotic. I'll probably do a short, few day sessions a year as maintenance.

Wow!! It sounds good Greg! I've also experienced positives with antibiotics. Which one you used? Very interested on knowing it.

 

[Peata]

I went through several theories and finally realized back in Sept, I think, that there is that connection with gut, liver, permeability, histamine, endotoxin and symptoms I was having... and I can't say I've noticed anything from probiotics, but what I found helps is Dramamine. In fact, it has been a positive change in my life, enabling me to keep my job (if one of those severe attacks had occurred like in the past, I wouldn't have been able to work). It's so cheap to get generic "motion sickness" pills and take 1/4 to 1/2 pill and be fine within 30 minutes, 1 hour at most.

 

[Greg says]

post 110613

post 110590 I just started anti-biotics... For no particular symptoms only to experiment reducing endotoxins / serotonin. The first night I had intense dreams of deep cleaning my long departed grandfathers kitchen. Using a hot power hose, getting into all the cracks and pipes removing all the muck, grease, filth and **** roaches. I woke up absolutely elated and peaceful. Went back to sleep and dreamt of washing dishes.

Ray will do anti-biotics / flowers of sulphur occasionally... I think 4 days on 2 days off. Half/ quarter of a tablet. I think it's important to take in conguntion with K2 and helped along with raw carrot.

I think maybe people's health issues are exasperated by an over burned gut liver axis from whacked out gut bacteria. I personally have never felt relief from the carrot ( only headaches) because I think it's not powerful enough if you are over burdened, the charcoal does feel effective, but nothing like the anti-biotic. I'll probably do a short, few day sessions a year as maintenance.

is there a general antibiotic that Peat recommends for this kind of use?

I use Minocycline 50mg which I bought online, from NZ I think. $40. Danny Roddy used this one, so it will definitely be Peat friendly. I can really feel the 'odour like sensation' in my mouth/ breath [not unpleasant]. It's a really warming and comforting sensation.

"I think it's good to try a small amount of an antibiotic at first, watching for a general effect such as mood; I've noticed that when I first have an odor-like sensation after taking a little penicillin (when it reaches a certain level in the tissues), it comes with a general sense of comfort." - RP

"My own preference for antibiotics would be in the order Pen-V-K (about 30 to 50 mg at a time, with some carrot), erythromycin, tetracycline, and neomycin (for example Kaomycin). All of the antibiotics are somewhat toxic to people, but at a certain level, they can suppress bacteria without noticeable toxicity for the person. The goal is to establish a better internal ecosystem." - RP

"I think penicillin is most effective in such situations when it's used intermittently, 2 to 4 days at a time, at intervals of about a week." - RP

 

[Nicholas]

if someone is concerned with using antibiotics, the carrot is obviously the milder option - but there's also the option of aspirin which is also antibacterial.

 

[Brian]

post 110690 if someone is concerned with using antibiotics, the carrot is obviously the milder option - but there's also the option of aspirin which is also antibacterial.

Also, methylene blue + strong red light shining on the intestines.

 

[frankfranks]

if someone is concerned with using antibiotics, the carrot is obviously the milder option - but there's also the option of aspirin which is also antibacterial.

I can't get over how you people continue to talk about carrot a useful antiseptic. It's been definitively shown that carrot is not useful in this way. It's just some vegetable fiber, most of which ferments in the gut like any other vegetable fiber.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 110706

if someone is concerned with using antibiotics, the carrot is obviously the milder option - but there's also the option of aspirin which is also antibacterial.

I can't get over how you people continue to talk about carrot a useful antiseptic. It's been definitively shown that carrot is not useful in this way. It's just some vegetable fiber, most of which ferments in the gut like any other vegetable fiber.

Does carrot fiber really ferment in the gut?

 

[FredSonoma]

post 110589

post 110576 My surmise is I have a yeast/fungi/candida overgrowth,
inflaming my gut,
causing permeability, serotonin, estrogen, high iron, etc.
The endotoxins end up in my liver, which gets overburdened,
and my liver causes the palpitations
(I've read that this can happen).

yes, i was just a few days ago trying to express this idea of many pathways to liver problems on the forum. not that i know anything about it hard in stone...but, like you, i perceive it to be the case....this study seemed a bit affirmative (as do your other posts). what i have right now is this strange thing where i'm showing signs of heavy estrogen with broken capillaries....that's what the studies say, at least....while at the same time, all the other estrogenic problems i've dealt with in the past have been going away and normalizing....i also show no other signs of hypothyroidism....have never felt better in every way.....fruit seems to exacerbate the problem now....it seemed to slowly come on when i began doing raw milk a couple years ago.......so i concluded that there must be something bacterial going onrecently...and also that bacterial thing possibly adding a liver burden......and in a more broad sense over all of that a basic energy disorder that i can't feel or see....and i just finished Peat's article on rosacea and, interestingly, he concludes basically the same things about what causes rosacea. i didn't do the carrots for a long time but as i've been doing them lately, i find that my skin clears and feels less inflamed (it's a very very mild feeling of inflammation to begin with)....but at the same time i sense that simply killing bacteria is only one part of it....it's intimately connected with the other systems, and with cellular health.
....i was starting to develop the broken capillary at the exact same times as i had a cough that lasted for 5 weeks....with massive bloating.....i knew in my deepest of Peatian hearts that it was serotonin/bacteria related...so i got on antibiotics and all the issues went away.....even the inflammation of the broken capillary - it even seemed to fade considerably. it's been tempting ever since to try it again, but your post gives a good case for not. when i did the antibiotics, i was eating resistant starch and lots of greek yogurt. not sure if greek yogurt has good probiotics or not.

Do you think the raw milk made these problems worse? I do raw milk because I seem to tolerate it a lot better than pasteurized, but I've been thinking it might be hurting me because I definitely have these bacteria / endotoxin / serotonin / liver problems.

 

[Nicholas]

post 110815

post 110589

post 110576 My surmise is I have a yeast/fungi/candida overgrowth,
inflaming my gut,
causing permeability, serotonin, estrogen, high iron, etc.
The endotoxins end up in my liver, which gets overburdened,
and my liver causes the palpitations
(I've read that this can happen).

yes, i was just a few days ago trying to express this idea of many pathways to liver problems on the forum. not that i know anything about it hard in stone...but, like you, i perceive it to be the case....this study seemed a bit affirmative (as do your other posts). what i have right now is this strange thing where i'm showing signs of heavy estrogen with broken capillaries....that's what the studies say, at least....while at the same time, all the other estrogenic problems i've dealt with in the past have been going away and normalizing....i also show no other signs of hypothyroidism....have never felt better in every way.....fruit seems to exacerbate the problem now....it seemed to slowly come on when i began doing raw milk a couple years ago.......so i concluded that there must be something bacterial going onrecently...and also that bacterial thing possibly adding a liver burden......and in a more broad sense over all of that a basic energy disorder that i can't feel or see....and i just finished Peat's article on rosacea and, interestingly, he concludes basically the same things about what causes rosacea. i didn't do the carrots for a long time but as i've been doing them lately, i find that my skin clears and feels less inflamed (it's a very very mild feeling of inflammation to begin with)....but at the same time i sense that simply killing bacteria is only one part of it....it's intimately connected with the other systems, and with cellular health.
....i was starting to develop the broken capillary at the exact same times as i had a cough that lasted for 5 weeks....with massive bloating.....i knew in my deepest of Peatian hearts that it was serotonin/bacteria related...so i got on antibiotics and all the issues went away.....even the inflammation of the broken capillary - it even seemed to fade considerably. it's been tempting ever since to try it again, but your post gives a good case for not. when i did the antibiotics, i was eating resistant starch and lots of greek yogurt. not sure if greek yogurt has good probiotics or not.

Do you think the raw milk made these problems worse? I do raw milk because I seem to tolerate it a lot better than pasteurized, but I've been thinking it might be hurting me because I definitely have these bacteria / endotoxin / serotonin / liver problems.

i honestly couldn't say with any certainty. i would think it could add confusion to variables since the bacteria and hormone levels are never the same cow to cow week to week. You could at least do your own light or full pasteurizing at home so you at least have a healthier cow and it wouldn't be homogenized.

 

[FredSonoma]

post 110819

post 110815

post 110589

post 110576 My surmise is I have a yeast/fungi/candida overgrowth,
inflaming my gut,
causing permeability, serotonin, estrogen, high iron, etc.
The endotoxins end up in my liver, which gets overburdened,
and my liver causes the palpitations
(I've read that this can happen).

yes, i was just a few days ago trying to express this idea of many pathways to liver problems on the forum. not that i know anything about it hard in stone...but, like you, i perceive it to be the case....this study seemed a bit affirmative (as do your other posts). what i have right now is this strange thing where i'm showing signs of heavy estrogen with broken capillaries....that's what the studies say, at least....while at the same time, all the other estrogenic problems i've dealt with in the past have been going away and normalizing....i also show no other signs of hypothyroidism....have never felt better in every way.....fruit seems to exacerbate the problem now....it seemed to slowly come on when i began doing raw milk a couple years ago.......so i concluded that there must be something bacterial going onrecently...and also that bacterial thing possibly adding a liver burden......and in a more broad sense over all of that a basic energy disorder that i can't feel or see....and i just finished Peat's article on rosacea and, interestingly, he concludes basically the same things about what causes rosacea. i didn't do the carrots for a long time but as i've been doing them lately, i find that my skin clears and feels less inflamed (it's a very very mild feeling of inflammation to begin with)....but at the same time i sense that simply killing bacteria is only one part of it....it's intimately connected with the other systems, and with cellular health.
....i was starting to develop the broken capillary at the exact same times as i had a cough that lasted for 5 weeks....with massive bloating.....i knew in my deepest of Peatian hearts that it was serotonin/bacteria related...so i got on antibiotics and all the issues went away.....even the inflammation of the broken capillary - it even seemed to fade considerably. it's been tempting ever since to try it again, but your post gives a good case for not. when i did the antibiotics, i was eating resistant starch and lots of greek yogurt. not sure if greek yogurt has good probiotics or not.

Do you think the raw milk made these problems worse? I do raw milk because I seem to tolerate it a lot better than pasteurized, but I've been thinking it might be hurting me because I definitely have these bacteria / endotoxin / serotonin / liver problems.

i honestly couldn't say with any certainty. i would think it could add confusion to variables since the bacteria and hormone levels are never the same cow to cow week to week. You could at least do your own light or full pasteurizing at home so you at least have a healthier cow and it wouldn't be homogenized.

Is this done just by boiling? Or would I be able to do UV / other ways of pasteurizing?

 

[narouz]

Do you think the raw milk made these problems worse? I do raw milk because I seem to tolerate it a lot better than pasteurized, but I've been thinking it might be hurting me because I definitely have these bacteria / endotoxin / serotonin / liver problems.

I've ended up browsing a lot of Candida-oriented sites lately,
and on one of them I noticed the idea that a diet with a lot of milk
sets up for Candida.
I can't remember the details--whys and wherefores.

It kinda stuck in my head because
I had been drinking a LOT of milk when my gut (and other) difficulties emerged.
The Candida-ites think that gut pH plays a big part in yeast/fungal infestations.
Maybe that was the explanation with milk--that it created an alkaline gut environment favorable for yeast...?

I'm sorry to make such a vague, unsourced post.