NAD/NADH Ratio - The One Metabolic Cause To Rule Them All

[haidut]

It is not that I have misunderstood your writing.
I just don't think most people with metabolism problems have deficiencies in the glycolysis/krebs cycle area.
It feels like ETC is the problem for most because of past PUFA intake and b vitamins can make this worse.
I could be wrong. Just laying my thoughts and my personal experience.
Saturated fat improves oxidative phosphorylation for sure. This has been the most helpful thing for me whenever I can digest enough of it.
Do you know if MB can be obtained in Bulgaria?

I think you can get it from a friend who works in a hospital. MB is one of the most commonly used chemicals for endoscopic procedures. They inject it in tissue that they think is cancerous. So, any hospital with a diagnostic unit should have it but I don't know if it would be pure or mixed with other chemicals used for diagnosis. Also, it should be sold in fish stores for cleaning aquariums, juts as it is in US/Europe. But again, don't know if it would be good for human consumption.
Finally, I have a person who distributes Oxidal in Bulgaria in case the hospital/doctor/fish_store route does not work.

 

[Makrosky]

There could also be an issue with endotoxin, for which reducing bacterial load or absorption of endotoxin in the bloodstream is the only thing that will help. The vitamins and MB may not help consistently if every time you eat you get hit with an endotoxin load. Short of killing off every bug in your gut periodically with antibiotics, I think the carrot salad and charcoal are the other things to be considered on a regular basis. And of course, checking for a chronic bacterial infection somewhere which can derail many pro-metabolic "cocktails".

I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

[Hans]

Haidut, I think maybe I confused it with fatty acid. Fatty acids enter the TCA cycle to make citric acid and thats it. So fatty acids would thus inhibit PDH and slow down the TCA cycle?
Also, another question, 1 fatty acid, after it's through the TCA cycle, yields 11 ATP, whereas one glucose yields 30 ATP after the TCA cycle? Making it more energy dense?
Does protein also complete the whole TCA cycle, and does it inhibit or promote glucose oxidation?

 

[Drareg]

If you don't believe in that then you don't believe in evolution both in the mainstream and Lamarckian sense. Adaptation is the fundamental ability of all things living. It requires energy and when the demands for adaptation exceed the supply of energy you get into the general adaptation syndrome (GAS) Selye spend his life researching and publishing about. Being stuck in GAS is by definition maladaptation.

Thanks, I was looking for this term as a description for possible preferred adaptive states based on years of structure conditioning.

 

[Diokine]

Bravo!

Proper understanding of this in relation to Dr. Peat's body of work is absolutely not optional.

The only thing I have to add is in dosing recommendations - I think the proper dose of compounds like niacinamide and methylene blue is not easy to discern, and my own experience has taught me more is not better. I was taking 500mg of niacinamide (sometimes more) at a time and I never really felt anything from it. I think your logic is sound in thinking that improper dose or schedule may only increase the "congestion" of the ETC and cellular respiration. I've been experimenting with around 50-100mg every 2 hours and it's been a completely different experience - I can now feel what the niacinamide is doing to my system and I can tell if I need it or not. I think a proper dose is closer to 25mg every 2 hours, until a good tone of breath is established. One reason I like Energin, very easy to obtain a proper, lasting dose.

Methylene blue has been even trickier, and I'm still trying to find a proper schedule for it.

 

[haidut]

I think a proper dose is closer to 25mg every 2 hours

Interestingly, the Russian anti-radiation and anti-stress drug Cytoflavin has 50mg niacinamide per dose and is taken a few times daily.

 

[Regina]

I think anywhere from 200m to 400mg would be a good intake but the problem is that it is only retained if there is enough ATP, which makes it a bit of catch 22. In order to have ATP you need magnesium but in order to retain the magnesium you need ATP. Thyroid helps retain magnesium, as well as possibly methylene blue. Magnesium complexes with succinic or malic acid seem to enter the mitochondria more easily.

Thanks very much. I felt remarkable on succinic acid and it seemed to be the lynchpin in fixing the insulin resistance brought on by intermittent fasting while training. But I ended up very anemic.
I think I am improving and have gone back to light training. I'm just not sure where to shine the light to find the derangement.

 

[haidut]

Thanks very much. I felt remarkable on succinic acid and it seemed to be the lynchpin in fixing the insulin resistance brought on by intermittent fasting while training. But I ended up very anemic.
I think I am improving and have gone back to light training. I'm just not sure where to shine the light to find the derangement.

Succinic and malic acids are strong chelators and can deplete iron sometimes. I would not take more than 200mg - 300mg doses 1-2 times daily.

 

[Regina]

Succinic and malic acids are strong chelators and can deplete iron sometimes. I would not take more than 200mg - 300mg doses 1-2 times daily.

Thx!

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks very much. I felt remarkable on succinic acid and it seemed to be the lynchpin in fixing the insulin resistance brought on by intermittent fasting while training. But I ended up very anemic.
I think I am improving and have gone back to light training. I'm just not sure where to shine the light to find the derangement.

Where did you get the succinic acid totake?

 

[Regina]

Where did you get the succinic acid totake?

I got this brand on amazon:
http://www.glutenfreeremedies.com/remedies/?prmRemedy=succinic-acid

 

[schultz]

How do uncouplers fit in here? Would they help repair the damaged metabolism, and if so how would this work?

MB can also activate the last complex (IV) also known as cytochrome C oxidase

EFAD can do this as well, right? I'm reminded of this paper...

Polyunsaturated fatty acid deficiency reverses effects of alcohol on mitochondrial energy metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
"Because respiratory chain proteins are enfolded in the inner mitochondrial membrane, fatty acid composition of membrane phospholipids is a major regulating factor of mitochondrial metabolism. Actually, PUFA deficiency shows an increase in oxygen consumption and a concomitant increase in cytochrome oxidase
content leading to an increase in the maximal ATP synthesis rate..."

Apparently it's enough to protect alcoholic rats

This also reminds me of this quote from one of Ray's articles...

"While Warburg was investigating the roles of glycolysis and respiration in cancer, a physician with a background in chemistry, W.F. Koch, in Detroit, was showing that the ability to use oxygen made the difference between health and sickness, and that the cancer metabolism could be corrected by restoring the efficient use of oxygen. He argued that a respiratory defect was responsible for immunodeficiency, allergy, and defective function of muscles, nerves, and secretory cells, as well as cancer."

CO2 seems fitting here since it apparently restores efficient use of oxygen, right? Also in that article Ray talks about how using amino acids for energy causes a rise in ammonia, which is why we want to be using sugar instead.

"This increases the formation of ammonia, yet the combination of glycolysis and fat oxidation provides less carbon dioxide, which is needed for the conversion of ammonia to urea. Ammonia stimulates the formation of lactate, while carbon dioxide inhibits it."

Anyhoo, I always found W.F. Koch super interesting, at least when Ray talks about him. It seems like he was waaaaay ahead of his time. So his magical cancer cure, do you suppose that was some sort of oxidizing agent like a quinone?

Hey @Travis, @Such_Saturation and @aguilaroja - please review and keep me honest here if I made any mistakes. Thanks in advance.

Oh, I see who the cool people are!

 

[GAF]

Since B2 riboflavin at higher doses has totally transformed my body's functioning in the last two months, I would like to throw out there the idea that if the B1, B3 etc program discussed in this thread has not yielded the benefits expected, one might add 100 to 400mg B2 to the mix.

It's only logical to think that B2 is also integral to the processes discussed herein.

I remain shocked and astonished at what I can do today compared to what I have never ever been able to conceive of doing only about 2 months ago.

 

[opiath]

@GAF
Can you list what symptoms has riboflavin improved for you?
Did you take the active version (R5P) or just plain riboflavin?

 

[Amazoniac]

If you don't believe in that then you don't believe in evolution both in the mainstream and Lamarckian sense. Adaptation is the fundamental ability of all things living. It requires energy and when the demands for adaptation exceed the supply of energy you get into the general adaptation syndrome (GAS) Selye spend his life researching and publishing about. Being stuck in GAS is by definition maladaptation.

I'm unsure about my opinion, I'm trying to make sense of it all, your posts have been very valuable. I have difficulty understanding maladaptation:

If the body snaps out of a suppressed state as soon as you provide adequate nourishment, it's clear that it wasn't maladapted. It was adapted in the best way possible to the scarce circumstance.

And if it actually doesn't respond as expected, you mentioned that it's probably due to an infection. In this case once again it isn't maladapted, it's adapted to an infection. It's doing its best to deal with it without compromising the body too much.

That's why I asked you if you find this definition irrelevant.
If possible, can you shield me from the evil with your thoughts on this?

 

[Amazoniac]

I must say that I understand the mistreated abandoned dog that reacts adversely to the first person that comes close to help..

Metabolic Efficiency And Metabolic Rate - Doubt

 

[ecstatichamster]

b6 p5p and progesterone seem to assist mg absorption

 

[haidut]

I have difficulty understanding maladaptation

Cells have memory and participate in a quorum. When enough cells are "yelling" in the chorus that the situation in the environment is bad or if a small number of cells ae very "vocal" (i.e. highly stressed as in cancer or trauma) than that is what the body will act upon as a unit. I think the easiest way to see this is if you have say a broken finger or had minor surgery on a limb. In those cases you do not feel well systemically even though the problem seems localized. Ray said this in the past adding that when this has been going on for some times only a very strong signal of "goodness" will snap the organism out of its predicament. As @tyw pointed out once, testosterone is one such signal (at least for males). I think progesterone, anti-serotonin drugs (may have to be taken for a few weeks), maybe anti-adrenaline (clonidine) or something as "simple" as falling in love can be other signals that can change the quorum.

 

[opiath]

Finally, I have a person who distributes Oxidal in Bulgaria in case the hospital/doctor/fish_store route does not work.

I found your friend's website and ordered some Oxidal. Thanks.

 

[GAF]

@GAF
Can you list what symptoms has riboflavin improved for you?
Did you take the active version (R5P) or just plain riboflavin?

I don't want to derail this great thread with B2 but here is an interesting discussion of B2 and what happens to deficient pigs. If you take all those deficiency issues and turn them around, that can answer your question. I have been taking plain B2 daily anywhere from 250 to 800mg per day. I take an afternoon dose when I need to keep my body really powered up like a few days ago when I was involved in a move. It was incredible what I was able to do compared to what I could do just a two or so months ago. I theorize that most connective tissue disorders are nothing but riboflavin deficiencies, and that is just one thing it does. I also theorize that B2 serves as sunshine inside your body and once you saturate your blood and extracellular fluid compartment/tissues with it, outside UV rays interact with riboflavin inside and good stuff happens, like cleaning out of pathogens. I can't prove anything. I am just a CPA that goes dancing at night for fun.
https://www.dsm.com/markets/anh/en_US/Compendium/swine/riboflavin.html

B2 has been the only thing added to supplements I was taking long before like thiamine, niacinamide, B6, cordyceps, so I am 100% sure the massive increase in functioning is due to the B2 plus whatever it does to make other supplements and foods work better. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012YIVRM0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1