NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread

Amazoniac

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- Methionine-Adequate Cysteine-Free Diet Does Not Limit Erythrocyte Glutathione Synthesis in Young Healthy Adult Men

"The goal of this study was to determine whether GSH synthesis would increase following supplementation of the level of total SAA (TSAA) intake that supported maximum protein synthesis. This was determined by measuring erythrocyte GSH fractional and absolute synthesis rates (ASR) as well as erythrocyte GSH concentration in healthy adult men fed a diet providing 1 g/kg protein in the presence of the mean population requirement for TSAA (as methionine only) of 14 mg·kg−1·d−1 and a varying additional cysteine intake."

"Cysteine intake did not affect erythrocyte GSH concentration":

upload_2018-12-18_19-39-53.png

"This is the first study, to our knowledge, to report on the erythrocyte GSH kinetics in healthy adult male in response to varying cysteine intake levels in the presence of adequate protein and energy intakes and the mean methionine requirement of 14 mg·kg−1·d−1. These results suggest that in the presence of an adequate protein intake of 1 g·kg−1·d−1 and the mean methionine requirement of 14 mg·kg−1·d−1 (19,21), further increases in the SAA intake in the form of cysteine did not affect erythrocyte GSH metabolism (Fig. 2). The GSH synthesis rates and concentrations in the current study were similar to those in previous studies of GSH kinetics in healthy adults (6,7)."

"The inability to measure GSH kinetics in liver or muscle due to practical and ethical considerations is a potential limitation of in vivo studies with healthy subjects. However, erythrocyte GSH kinetics has been shown to respond to dietary changes in disease (10,11), malnutrition (8), and even to small decreases in protein intake (7), demonstrating that erythrocyte GSH is a sensitive pool from which to detect changes in GSH metabolism. At a protein intake of 0.75 g·kg−1·d−1, set by WHO as the safe intake (26), Jackson et al. (7) showed decreased erythrocyte GHS synthesis when compared with a habitual protein intake of 1.13 g·kg−1·d−1. In fact, this higher protein requirement was recently confirmed by our group, showing that a safe intake of protein is closer to 1 g·kg−1·d−1 (27). In addition, cysteine supplementation at only 15 mg·kg−1·d−1 produced significantly increased GSH synthesis in symptom-free HIV individuals (10), suggesting that at the cysteine intakes used in the current study, significant changes in GSH metabolism should have been observed had they occurred."

"Although we did not observe changes in GSH metabolism in response to feeding graded intakes of cysteine to healthy adults receiving the previously derived mean methionine (TSAA) requirement (Fig. 2), we observed a significant linear increase in urinary sulfate production in response to graded cysteine intakes (Fig. 3)."

upload_2018-12-18_19-44-51.png

"The precise mechanisms governing all aspects of SAA metabolism are not yet completely understood. However, the increases in urinary sulfate excretion in the current study can be partly explained by work conducted by Stipanuk et al (13). Because excess cysteine is considered toxic, the liver regulates cysteine concentration within a small range and maintains a plasma concentration within a 2.5-fold range (13). Cysteine concentration has been found to be the key regulator of it own metabolism (4,5,15,28–30). When protein and/or SAA intake is low, γ-glutamylcysteine synthetase, the rate-limiting enzyme for GSH synthesis is upregulated, resulting in a greater partitioning of SAA toward GSH synthesis. On the other hand, when protein and/or SAA intake is increased, cysteine dioxygenase the enzyme that catalyzes cysteine to sulfate and taurine, is upregulated, resulting in greater partitioning of cysteine toward sulfate production. Thus, increasing urinary sulfate observed in the present study appears to be due to increased partitioning of dietary cysteine toward catabolism in response to graded intakes of cysteine."

"However, a closer look at the pattern of the isotope results reveals a similar rate of erythrocyte GSH synthesis at cysteine intakes of 0, 20, 30, and 40 mg·kg−1·d−1, with an almost 45% increase from 0 at a cysteine intake of 10 mg·kg−1·d−1. This increase in GSH synthesis, although not significant (P = 0.49), may be of biological importance, especially because other investigators have shown significant results at lower changes in synthesis rates (6,7). The observed similar GSH synthesis rates at cysteine intakes of 20 mg·kg−1·d−1 and above to that observed at a 0 cysteine intake suggest a return to baseline at the higher cysteine intakes. This is supported by previous data that show that increasing the level of protein (soy and casein), as well as the SAA methionine and cysteine, in the diets of rats or the addition of SAA to the culture medium of primary rat hepatocyte results in increased cysteine dioxygenase and decreased γ-glutamylcysteine activity (5,28,29). In healthy humans, a deficient protein and or SAA intake has been shown to significantly decrease GSH synthesis (6,7). Although no comparison studies of graded protein or SAA intake have been published, supplemental cysteine has been found to restore GSH synthesis to that of controls in diseased individuals (8,10)."​

So it was on healthy people and very short, I doubt they would be able to sustain this for long without compromising nutrition over the times.

As it was commented above, I suspect that depleting yourself of antioxidants is not the best alternative. When all required nutrients are given, the body will have enough reagents to push on whatever direction is ideal. There are also other means to generate oxidative stress that won't leave the body starved.

I don't understand why Chris recommends straight glutathione instead of cysteine, it's possible that he's actually getting paid to share that (for real). Even when it's absorbed intact, which is not often the case, most tissues require reassembling of the molecule.

- Glutathione - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

"There may be some absorption of glutathione intact from the intestines, but it cannot enter cells intact. It must be metabolized to form L-cystine (two molecules of L-cysteine bound together) before being taken up."

"In effect, glutathione is an indirect and expensive way to provide dietary L-cysteine. Dietary protein itself, including L-cysteine rich sources such as Whey Protein, are effective but inefficient ways to increase L-cysteine intake in the diet and N-Acetylcysteine is both more efficient and cheaper than glutathione."

"Although oral glutathione supplementation does not efficiently increase intracellular glutathione levels for the above reasons, it can be absorbed intact into the blood stream. Since increased glutathione levels in the blood have been shown to slow the breakdown of nitric oxide, glutathione supplementation may be useful to augment nitric oxide boosters such as L-Citrulline or L-Arginine."

"Beyond being an endogenous antioxidant, glutathione is present in the food supply via most foods. One study sample had a mean daily intake of 34.8mg, but a wide range of 13-109.9mg. Over half of dietary glutathione came from fruits and vegetables, with less than quarter from meat sources.[4] Dietary glutathione content, however, does not correlate with systemic glutathione activity.[4]"

"An enzyme known as γ-GlutamylCysteine Synthetase (GCS) is a glutamate-cysteine ligase which is involved in synthesizing glutathione, specifically catalyzing the first reaction of combining glutamate and cysteine to form a dipeptide known as γ-glutamylcysteine (hence the name of the enzyme).[5]" "Due to glutathione itself exerting a negative regulatory role on this enzyme (in both bacterial[9] and rat cells;[10] latter being homologous to human[11]) an excess of glutathione production from overactivity seems unlikely."

"The second enzyme involved in the synthesis of glutathione is glutathione synthetase, which takes the γ-glutamylcysteine created in the previous enzymatic reaction and attaches glycine into it, forming the tripeptide known as glutathione.[12]"

"The rate-limiting step of glutathione synthesis does not appear to be the activity of either enzyme under normal conditions, but rather the provision of one of the amino acids (L-cysteine) making up the tripeptide;[18] due to this, supplementation of N-acetylcysteine is sometimes used to increase glutathione synthesis (after N-acetylcysteine gets deacetylated to form L-cysteine, however).[18]"

"Oxidized glutathione (GSSG) can be converted back into GSH via the NADPH-dependent glutathione disulfide reductase enzyme,[12] and the activity of this enzyme seems to be in part controlled by glutathione itself.[20] The activity of this enzyme appears to be a major determinent of the overall GSH/GSSG ratio.[12]"

"Glutathione, due to being a small peptide molecule, is subject to hydrolysis (digestion) in the small intestines usually by γ-glutamyltransferase in the brush border of the jejunum[37] where the enzyme predominates.[38] There may also be hydrolysis post-absorption, since infusions of glutathione are mostly degraded into its constituent amino acids and increase serum L-cysteine.[39]"

"There appears to be a transporter for glutathione absorption in human intestinal cells[40] and increases in serum[41] and tissue[42] glutathione have been noted with orally supplemented glutathione in rats, but [again,] overall glutathione activity in the human does not correlate with dietary glutathione.[4]"

"Glutathione can be conjugated to other molecules by select Phase II Enzymes; while this process is classically referred to as a detoxification process as this conjugation 'tags' the molecule for removal by the liver and kidneys[54] in some cases glutathione conjugation serves to bioactive the target molecule.[55] This process applies to both xenobiotics (things originating from outside the body) as well as some endogenous molecules like steroids[56] and prostaglandins.[57]

These enzymes are the glutathione S-transferases (GSTs), and the conjugation reaction is similar to an antioxidation reaction where the glutathione performs a nucleophilic attack (donating a pair of electrons) to electrophilic targets in the conjugation process.[58] After conjugation, it is either ejected immediately from the liver into the intestines (thus forming a fecal metabolite) or it travels to the kidneys to ultimately be excreted in the urine as an aceylated L-cysteine conjugate known as mercapturic acid.[54][55]"

"The superoxide radical is converted to hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) by superoxide dismutase (SOD), and once this occurs the enzyme glutathione peroxidase (GPx) [involves selenium] is able to reduce it to H2O via utilization of two glutathione tripeptides (and formation of GSSG afterwards).[68] H2O2 may also be produced as a byproduct in aerobic metabolic reactions.[61][69]

The antioxidant enzyme catalase also removes H2O2 by decomposing it into into water and oxygen.[70] Catalase and GPx act cooperatively, as H2O2 can inactivate catalase at high concentrations[71][72] and this inactivation appears to be protected against by GPx.[73]"

"Inflammatory bowel diseases, including ulcerative colitis[77] and Crohn's disease.[78], are characterized by increases in oxidative stress and simultaneous reductions in oxidative defenses such as glutathione concentrations.[79]"

"Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) is an antioxidant thiol produced in mitochondria from octanoic acid and used as both a REDOX antioxidant (having both an oxidized and reduced form) and mitochondrial enzymatic cofactor.[109] Although it shares similarities with glutathione in being a sulfur-containing antioxidant, unlike glutathione it can be absorbed intact from the intestines and may influence the body as a dietary supplement.[110]

ALA appears to have a role in promoting the synthesis of glutathione. Glutathione cannot be transferred between cells intact; instead, L-cystine is transported between cells to provide L-cysteine for glutathione synthesis.[18] Since L-cystine is an oxidative product of L-cysteine (two oxidized L-cysteine molecules bound together) ALA can reduce L-cystine into two L-cysteine amino acids, and thereby increase glutathione synthesis by liberating its precursor,[111] which is the substrate needed for the rate-limiting step in glutathione synthesis.[18] Furthermore, GSSG (the oxidized form of glutathione) can be directly reduced back into GSH via reduced alpha-lipoic acid[112] which in turn becomes its oxidized form (dihydrolipoic acid). This general supportive role of ALA in glutathione activity has been noted in variety of cell lines[18][113][112][114] and appears to occur in vivo with 16mg/kg ALA in rats.[113]"

"L-citrulline is an amino acid that often is used to increase nitric oxide (NO) levels, a potent vasodilator and popular target with pre-workout supplementation. To form NO, L-arginine is combined with oxygen by the nitric oxide synthase (NOS) enzyme. The problem with L-arginine is that after oral ingestion, a significant amount is broken down in the liver before it ever gets to the blood stream. L-citrulline is a byproduct of NO synthesis that can be converted back into arginine through the arginine-citrulline cycle. [115] For this reason, L-citrulline is a more efficient way to increase blood L-arginine.[116]

To examine whether glutathione may potentiate NO signaling, 200 mg/day glutathione alongside-2 g/day L-citrulline was tested in a human randomized, controlled trial.[116] Although increased cGMP levels were observed but did not reach statistical significance, the citrulline and glutathione combo did increase nitrate and nitrite levels more than citrulline alone. Since nitrate and nitrite are substrates for NO synthesis and markers for increased activity of the NO pathway, this indicated that L-citrulline and glutathione supplementation could promote NO production to a greater extent than L-citrulline alone.[116] "​

- Acetylcysteine - Wikipedia

"Acetylcysteine was initially patented in 1960 and licensed for use in 1968.[9] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most effective and safe medicines needed in a health system.[10] It is available as a generic medication and is inexpensive.[11]"

"Although both IV and oral acetylcysteine are equally effective for this indication, oral administration is poorly tolerated because high oral doses are required due to low oral bioavailability,[14] because of its very unpleasant taste and odour, and because of adverse effects, particularly nausea and vomiting."

Pharmacokinetics of N-acetylcysteine in man (not the reference above)
"The oral availability of N-acetylcysteine varied between 6 and 10%, with the slow-release tablet having the lowest and the fast dissolving tablet the highest availability."​

"Although N-acetylcysteine prevented liver damage when taken before alcohol, when taken four hours after alcohol it made liver damage worse in a dose-dependent fashion.[49]"​

- Glutathione synthesis (Chris)

"Cysteine is unstable extracellularly where it readily autoxidizes to cystine, which is taken up by some cells and is rapidly reduced to cysteine intracellularly [47]."

"GS[ynth(et)ase] has received relatively little attention in the field of GSH biosynthesis. GS is composed of two identical subunits and is not subject to feedback inhibition by GSH [48]. GS deficiency in humans can result in dramatic metabolic consequences because the accumulated γ-glutamylcysteine is converted to 5-oxoproline, which can cause severe metabolic acidosis, hemolytic anemia and central nervous system damage [137,138]."

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Source: the internet.

"There is accumulating data that reduced GSH levels occur in many human diseases and they contribute to worsening of the condition [4]. While oxidative injury plays a dominant role in GSH depletion in many of these disorders, some are causally related to reduced expression of GSH synthetic enzymes [13]."

"Endotoxemia lowers GSH levels in the liver [156,157], peritoneal macrophages and lymphocytes [158]. Septic patients have lower blood GSH:GSSG ratios [159]. Exogenous GSH treatment suppressed LPS-induced systemic inflammatory response and reduced mortality [160]. GSH level is an important variable that determines susceptibility to LPS-induced injury in multiple tissues [157,160,161]. This may be related to GSH’s ability to influence toll like receptor 4 (TLR4) signaling. Specifically, LPS-induced mortality and TNFα secretion were higher when GSH level was reduced [162]. The fall in GSH is multifactorial. In liver, increased GSH efflux and increased oxidative stress both contribute [153,156]."​

- The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

The difference between meats and cheeses for every 35 g or so of protein is about 200 mg of cystine (first quoted paragraph from the last link).​

- Effects of N-acetylcysteine, oral glutathione (GSH) and a novel sublingual form of GSH on oxidative stress markers: A comparative crossover study.

"Cysteine is the [major?] limiting factor for GSH synthesis and its represents 33.6% of the GSH molecule [24]. Providing 200 mg of cysteine (commercial dosage) would be sufficient for the body to theoretically synthetize de novo up to 600 mg of GSH."​

- https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/01/13/manage-glutathione-status/

"[Healthy humans] make about 185 mg of glutathione per day."​

NAC is 75% cysteine and the standard dose of supplements is 600 mg, providing 850 kg. But then there's the bioavaialisbity issues which might be different from foods.

- An increased need for dietary cysteine in support of glutathione synthesis may underlie the increased risk for mortality associated with low protein intake in the elderly
- A Review on Various Uses of N-Acetyl Cysteine
 

Amazoniac

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Pharmacokinetics of N-acetylcysteine in man
"The oral availability of N-acetylcysteine varied between 6 and 10%, with the slow-release tablet having the lowest and the fast dissolving tablet the highest availability."
That's odd. The values seem based on intact detection in blood after oral intake, but a great deal can be converted in the intestines and liver:

"It has been shown in rats [21] that only a small amount (3%) of radioactive NAC is excreted in faeces, even after i.v. and oral administration. The low availability after oral administration is probably due to fast metabolism in the gut wall and liver. The almost complete absorption leaves a large amount of NAC for in vivo metabolism, e.g. for cellular uptake, deacetylation to cysteine [22] and synthesis of glutathione [23] or other sulphur compounds. Rodenstein et al. [10], after oral administration of 100 mg (35)S-labelled NAC, obtained the maximum concentration rather later [11-14, 18], and showed that a substantial amount of radioactMty still remained in plasma after 24 h. Metabolic products, still radioactively labelled, may recircutate or have a lower clearance than NAC."

"[..]as indicated above, a major part of NAC may be metabolized during its first passage in the gut wall and liver, and oral NAC in fact offers prompt availability of thiol groups needed for glutathione synthesis in the hepatic cells where the need is highest."​

Therefore NAC and dietary cysteine might be considered equivalents as long as you disconsider the acetyl portion.

- Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

"Several investigators have reported that methionine supplementation of a protein-free diet reduces body weight loss and improves nitrogen balance in rats (13), chickens (14), pigs (15), and dogs (16). Our own work (17) has confirmed the earlier suggestion (18) that the methionine response is not due to methionine per se but instead to methionine furnishing sulfur for cysteine biosynthesis via transsulfuration. Indeed, cysteine supplementation elicits a response equal to or greater than methionine. Protein turnover (degradation and synthesis) is an ongoing body process, even when no protein is being consumed. A portion of the amino acids released from body protein catabolism is oxidized and therefore not available for resynthesis of new protein. The cysteine response observed when a protein-free diet is fed implies that this amino acid is substantially depleted from body pools, making it the first limiting amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis."

"At isosulfurous levels, l-cysteine, l-cystine, N-acetyl-l-cysteine, and l-methionine are equally efficacious for growth of animals fed a cysteine-deficient diet (19). Nonetheless, at pharmacologic dose levels these SAA elicit far different results (20–22). Addition of 3% or 4% l-cysteine to a typical corn–soybean meal diet for chicks or rats causes heavy mortality within 5 days. Similar levels of l-cystine, N-acetyl-l-cysteine, or methionine result in no mortality after 10 days of feeding. Cysteine is absorbed from the gut faster than cystine (22), and it has potent reducing-agent activity as well as mineral-chelation activity (21). It can also bind plasma proteins (22). N-acetylcysteine is less toxic than cysteine, perhaps because the deacetylation process [of the excess?] occurs slowly. This is fortunate in that N-acetylcysteine is being used increasingly in the clinical setting (23, 24)."

"Most protein sources consumed by animals and humans have undergone some form of heat processing. This processing causes a significant portion of protein-bound cysteine to be oxidized to cystine, and protein-bound cystine is less digestible than protein-bound cysteine (25). The disulfide bridges created both within and between peptide chains when two cysteine residues condense to form cystine apparently restrict gut proteolytic enzyme attack. Whether the impaired digestibility results from presence of disulfide bonds within or between peptide chains is not known. Heat treatment together with alkaline food processing may also convert some of the dietary cystine to lanthionine (26), a crosslinked sulfur compound that has minimal SAA bioactivity (27). Thus, protein-bound cystine has a low bioavailability (28). This could be important clinically, because undigested cystine will pass to the colon where sulfate-reducing bacteria may degrade it to sulfides, and sulfides have been found noxious to colonic epithelial cells (29, 30). Still, the link between undigested SAA, particularly cystine, and colonic inflammation has not been firmly established."​

Making it perhaps more adsorbable than food cysteine if my interpretation is right.

@Vinero
 

Vinero

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That's odd. The values seem based on intact detection in blood after oral intake, but a great deal can be converted in the intestines and liver:

"It has been shown in rats [21] that only a small amount (3%) of radioactive NAC is excreted in faeces, even after i.v. and oral administration. The low availability after oral administration is probably due to fast metabolism in the gut wall and liver. The almost complete absorption leaves a large amount of NAC for in vivo metabolism, e.g. for cellular uptake, deacetylation to cysteine [22] and synthesis of glutathione [23] or other sulphur compounds. Rodenstein et al. [10], after oral administration of 100 mg (35)S-labelled NAC, obtained the maximum concentration rather later [11-14, 18], and showed that a substantial amount of radioactMty still remained in plasma after 24 h. Metabolic products, still radioactively labelled, may recircutate or have a lower clearance than NAC."

"[..]as indicated above, a major part of NAC may be metabolized during its first passage in the gut wall and liver, and oral NAC in fact offers prompt availability of thiol groups needed for glutathione synthesis in the hepatic cells where the need is highest."​

Therefore NAC and dietary cysteine might be considered equivalents as long as you disconsider the acetyl portion.

- Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

"Several investigators have reported that methionine supplementation of a protein-free diet reduces body weight loss and improves nitrogen balance in rats (13), chickens (14), pigs (15), and dogs (16). Our own work (17) has confirmed the earlier suggestion (18) that the methionine response is not due to methionine per se but instead to methionine furnishing sulfur for cysteine biosynthesis via transsulfuration. Indeed, cysteine supplementation elicits a response equal to or greater than methionine. Protein turnover (degradation and synthesis) is an ongoing body process, even when no protein is being consumed. A portion of the amino acids released from body protein catabolism is oxidized and therefore not available for resynthesis of new protein. The cysteine response observed when a protein-free diet is fed implies that this amino acid is substantially depleted from body pools, making it the first limiting amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis."

"At isosulfurous levels, l-cysteine, l-cystine, N-acetyl-l-cysteine, and l-methionine are equally efficacious for growth of animals fed a cysteine-deficient diet (19). Nonetheless, at pharmacologic dose levels these SAA elicit far different results (20–22). Addition of 3% or 4% l-cysteine to a typical corn–soybean meal diet for chicks or rats causes heavy mortality within 5 days. Similar levels of l-cystine, N-acetyl-l-cysteine, or methionine result in no mortality after 10 days of feeding. Cysteine is absorbed from the gut faster than cystine (22), and it has potent reducing-agent activity as well as mineral-chelation activity (21). It can also bind plasma proteins (22). N-acetylcysteine is less toxic than cysteine, perhaps because the deacetylation process [of the excess?] occurs slowly. This is fortunate in that N-acetylcysteine is being used increasingly in the clinical setting (23, 24)."

"Most protein sources consumed by animals and humans have undergone some form of heat processing. This processing causes a significant portion of protein-bound cysteine to be oxidized to cystine, and protein-bound cystine is less digestible than protein-bound cysteine (25). The disulfide bridges created both within and between peptide chains when two cysteine residues condense to form cystine apparently restrict gut proteolytic enzyme attack. Whether the impaired digestibility results from presence of disulfide bonds within or between peptide chains is not known. Heat treatment together with alkaline food processing may also convert some of the dietary cystine to lanthionine (26), a crosslinked sulfur compound that has minimal SAA bioactivity (27). Thus, protein-bound cystine has a low bioavailability (28). This could be important clinically, because undigested cystine will pass to the colon where sulfate-reducing bacteria may degrade it to sulfides, and sulfides have been found noxious to colonic epithelial cells (29, 30). Still, the link between undigested SAA, particularly cystine, and colonic inflammation has not been firmly established."​

Making it perhaps more adsorbable than food cysteine if my interpretation is right.

@Vinero
Thanks. I have stopped taking NAC for now. It doesn't give me any benefits anymore like when I just started taking it. I felt great when first taking it but now not so much. I am afraid of it's anti-thyroid effects.
 
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Amazoniac

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Thanks. I have stopped taking NAC for now. It doesn't give me any benefits anymore like when I just started taking it. I felt great when first taking it but now not so much. I am afraid of it's anti-thyroid effects.
Have you noticed a change in need for molybdenum as you increased the intake? This might be expected.
 

ddjd

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What's peats opinion on Glutathione? NAC supposedly massively boosts glutathione, so would that on balance still make it worthwhile for someone without melanoma issues
 
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haidut

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There is no need to take extra NAC. The limiting material for glutathione synthesis is glycine, not cysteine. Adults have plenty of cysteine floating around, mostly from broken down muscle tissue. Taking glycine (gelatin) avoids the anti-thyroid effects of NAC and also protects from melanoma (and pretty much any other cancer). There are human studies where they used combination of cystein+glycine to raise glutathione but subsequent smaller studies found giving just glycine achieves the same effect since a person is almost never low on cysteine unless all of the muscles are gone.
 
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In efforts to avoid a hangover NAC has always worked well for me where as glycine has not.
 
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Not drinking helps with that too.

I think my point demonstrates that glycine is not really a substitute for nac, as far as protecting ones liver. I know nac is used to defend against acetaminophen overdose, don’t think glycine has the same power.
 

Amazoniac

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There is no need to take extra NAC. The limiting material for glutathione synthesis is glycine, not cysteine. Adults have plenty of cysteine floating around, mostly from broken down muscle tissue. Taking glycine (gelatin) avoids the anti-thyroid effects of NAC and also protects from melanoma (and pretty much any other cancer). There are human studies where they used combination of cystein+glycine to raise glutathione but subsequent smaller studies found giving just glycine achieves the same effect since a person is almost never low on cysteine unless all of the muscles are gone.
I have been wondering about the safety of NAC for quite a while.

There are risks in taking cysteine, but I has the impression that the forum is overcautious with it (which can be justifiable) but under with methionine and tryptophan from dairy. For this community glycine is less likely to be the limiting factor, people are in a different condition than most people from such experiments. As an example, a few days ago a scientist was considering the potential problems from getting the majority of protein as collagen.

Methionine consumption from cheese here is high, and a great deal of its cysteine is lost along with whey. Cheeses that go through multiple draining steps have it lowered further. While in theory it's great that it's lowering the amount of these amino acids that is potentially inflammatory, in practice it means that we's relying on methionine to synthesize cysteine.

It's not uncommon for people to notice an improvement after supplementing SAMe, which shows that people are not metabolizing methionine properly, and glycine won't work as expected and might not be the limiting factor. But this added to chronic stress can lead to insufficient cysteine assuming people are eating as often as it's needed to prevent the release of cysteine from muscle.

In the 'cheese as protein' thread, homocysteine was elevated right away in healthy people consuming plenty of it. Persistent deficiencies of B-vitamins on the other hand are common, even without extra demand from imposing more synthesis to the body. And this might contribute to its insufficient production and depleting other nutrients further.

If people always had enough cysteine, NAC wouldn't make a difference, and this is the opposite of what usually happens. But people tend to overdose and the improvement is followed by worsening. Excess of antioxidants can be a problem, but in the original post a vitamin E analog was just as detrimental, so it must be a matter of quantity and balance with other nutrients.

It's funny that your (deserved) reputation is well-established to the point that it's just a matter of questioning you that I suddenly become more credible. Believe it or not, people contact me more every time we exchange some messages. Even though I prefer an 'incredible' title for sounding cooler, I'm considering viewing challenging you as a sport.
But this has nothing to do with my suspicion that you were actually getting paid by the anti-cancer industry to post that.
 
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Mossy

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I understand not taking NAC on a continual basis, but I'm curious as to taking it to remedy a temporary (hopefully) problem--lung congestion/fluid/infection. I either breathed in a cleaning solution, or am having a reaction to homemade mouthwash (baking soda, xylitol, calcium carbonate, and possible residual essential oils), or am just sick. I've never had pain like this, from congestion or coughing. I think I may have damaged my lung lining or muscle, or maybe the upper esophagus. I had a very sharp pain there this morning, and I still have to position my throat and chest to reduce the pain when I cough. I'd like to break it up and prevent any more stress to the lungs or esophagus. Any thoughts are welcome.

EDIT: I just read this comment, which has me thinking it wouldn't be good to suppress the thyroid when sick. If anyone has any good NAC alternatives, please share. I should add that I did try the mega-vitamin C thing yesterday, which I think may actually be a contributor to the problem: too much acid? I did use sodium ascorbate, though.
 
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Amazoniac

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- NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread

"Several investigators have reported that methionine supplementation on a protein-free diet reduces body weight loss and improves nitrogen balance in rats (13), chickens (14), pigs (15), and dogs (16). Our own work (17) has confirmed the earlier suggestion (18) that the methionine response is not due to methionine per se but instead to methionine furnishing sulfur for cysteine biosynthesis via transsulfuration. Indeed, cysteine supplementation elicits a response equal to or greater than methionine. Protein turnover (degradation and synthesis) is an ongoing body process, even when no protein is being consumed. A portion of the amino acids released from body protein catabolism is oxidized and therefore not available for resynthesis of new protein. The cysteine response observed when a protein-free diet is fed implies that this amino acid is substantially depleted from body pools, making it the first limiting amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis."​

- The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

"The two formulae used were casein predominant and therefore reasonably low in cysteine. Thus, the supplementation with taurine may have a cysteine-sparing effect and make more cysteine available for protein synthesis, thereby decreasing the necessity for increased endogenous protein breakdown."​

- Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Depletes DHEA-S And Other Sulfated Steroids

"Cysteine and methionine are not stored in the body. Any dietary excess is readily oxidized to sulfate, excreted in the urine (or reabsorbed depending on dietary levels) or stored in the form of glutathione (GSH). Even in extreme situations, such as when tryptophane deficiency leads to a general catabolic effect, the organism tries to spare the loss of sulfur by continuing to store any available sulfur as GSH in the liver [17]."

"Since all the dietary supplements investigated containing sulfate, including MSM [27] are readily metabolized prior or shortly after absorption to sulfate or small molecular weight intermediates, they should be able to spare losses of GSH associated with dietary deficiencies, increased utilization due to disease or altered immune function."

"In general, the ratio of cysteine/methionine is close to one for poultry and red meat protein, and to 0.7 for fish. Dairy products tend to have slightly higher levels of methionine and starch-rich foods slightly more cysteine. Eggs contain significantly more cysteine."​

- Sparing of Methionine Requirements: Evaluation of Human Data Takes Sulfur Amino Acids Beyond Protein (seems familiar, but can't remember if it was already posted elsewhere)

"[..]cysteine [rather than methionine] may be more effective at maintaining cysteine and glutathione homeostasis (8)."

"Animal studies have shown that ~50–60% of the SAA requirement could be met by dietary cysteine (1,8). Several studies in humans, summarized in Table 1, do not differ significantly in their outcomes but rather in the interpretation of the data. The consensus appears to be that the requirement for SAA ranges from 13 to 21 mg·kg-1·d-1, that the need for methionine alone is between 5 and 13 mg·kg-1·d-1, and that cyst(e)ine may spare the requirement for methionine."

"As discuss'd [what a coincidence, the author must have elevated prolactin as well] earlier, the drive for methionine requirements may rest in the need for methionine beyond its use for protein synthesis, especially when considering the evolution of disease. The need for methyl groups has been viewed as a separate dietary need, although for humans, the major source of methyl group in foods comes from methionine (∼10 mmol methyl/d), from N-methyltetrahydrofolate (∼5 to 10 mmol methyl/d), and from choline (∼30 mmol methyl/d). The interrelationship of these 3 components of the diet makes it imperative that all 3 be assessed in an attempt to determine the requirement of each. Because ∼15 to 30% of the population may have increased dietary methyl needs because of genetic polymorphisms in enzymes related to methyl group metabolism (28,29), it is logical that the requirement for methionine as well as cysteine may be affected by the need for methyl groups."

"[..]supplementation with phosphatidylcholine also decreased post-methionine-loading HCY concentrations in 26 healthy men (27). Taken together, these data emphasize the importance of methyl group availability in SAA homeostasis and raise the question of whether betaine and choline could contribute to methionine sparing. This would, parenthetically, imply that cysteine availability versus HCY catabolism might be affected by the dietary intake of alternate sources of methyl groups."

"Grimble and Grimble (32,33) see a vital role for the SAA in the regulation of the immune system, especially as related to the maintenance of GSH levels that classically fall after inflammatory challenge. The liver is one of the primary sites for GSH synthesis as well as for the production of acute-phase proteins. At low intakes of SAA, antioxidant defenses may be compromised because of preferential incorporation of cysteine into the synthesis of cysteine-rich proteins instead of GSH (34,35)."

"[..]the nature of AA delivery (i.e., free vs. in protein) will influence the biological endpoints of interest. The risk of deleterious effects of high methionine intake in the free form relate to alterations in the thiol redox balance and could be reduced by supplementary cyst(e)ine. In fact, supplementation with the cysteine precursor N-acetylcysteine (NAC) has been shown to partially attenuate the excessive increase in HCY in plasma and oxidized HCY in whole blood (53). Although dietary cyst(e)ine may have only a small effect on total SAA requirements, it plays an important role in balancing the potentially toxic effects of free methionine."

"Because findings suggest that certain protein-rich foods may have a lower HCY response on the basis of their ratio of methionine:serine:cysteine, the potential public health implications of attempts to alter specific amino acid content of proteins (54) are large. Earlier reports that a high-protein, high-methionine diet does not raise HCY compared to low-protein, low-methionine diets (55) will lead to consideration of the healthy benefits of specific proteins and possible alternate sources of cysteine. Vegetarian diets have been reported to have protective effects against chronic degenerative diseases related to a lower content of methionine, lysine, and tryptophan. However, the possibility that proteins containing high methionine balanced with appropriate cyst(e)ine content may be engineered is an intriguing thought."​

- Dietary Reference Intakes for Water, Potassium, Sodium, Chloride, and Sulfate | Institute of the Medicines

"Sulfate is produced in the body from the transsulfuration of methionine to cysteine, followed by the oxidation of cysteine to pyruvate and inorganic sulfate. These processes occur as a result of protein turnover, as well as from degradation of excess protein-derived methionine or cysteine. Inorganic sulfate also results from the metabolism of several organic and inorganic sulfur compounds present in food and water. Glutathione, an important antioxidant compound, is one of the more studied nonprotein organic sources of sulfate in the diet."

"There are hundreds of sulfur-containing compounds in the human body, and the body synthesizes all of them, with the exception of the vitamins thiamin and biotin. Precursors include sulfate obtained from dietary intake and ingestion of the indispensable amino acids methionine and cysteine (cysteine is considered conditionally indispensable) (Shils et al., 1999)."

"One of the important roles for sulfate is in the biosynthesis of 3′-phosphoadenosine-5′-phosphosulfate (PAPS). Inorganic sulfate is required along with adenosine triphosphate. PAPS, also known as active sulfate, is used in the biosynthesis of many essential body compounds (Box 7-1), some of which are not absorbed intact when present in foods."

"Gastrointestinal absorption of sulfate can occur in the stomach, small intestine, and colon (Anast et al., 1965; Batt, 1969; Cardin and Mason, 1975, 1976; Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Kandylis, 1983; Kaneko-Mohammed and Hogben, 1964). Absorption is a sodium-dependent active process (Ahearn and Murer, 1984; Florin et al., 1991; Langridge-Smith et al., 1983). When soluble sulfate salts (e.g., potassium sulfate or sodium sulfate) are consumed, more than 80 percent of oral sulfate doses are absorbed, as shown by isotopic tracer studies (Bauer, 1976; Florin et al., 1991).

With insoluble sulfate salts, such as barium sulfate, almost no absorption occurs (Ahmed and Hamza, 1989). When magnesium sulfate is used to promote osmotic diarrhea, sulfate absorption is inversely proportional to the extent of the osmotic effect. Sulfate that is not absorbed in the upper gastrointestinal tract passes to the large intestine and colon, where it is either excreted in the feces, reabsorbed, or reduced by anaerobic bacteria to metabolites, such as hydrogen sulfide (Pitcher and Cummings, 1996; Roediger et al., 1997)."

"If one assumes that adults whose dietary protein needs are being met will consume a daily intake of 2 g of methionine and 2 g of cysteine, an equal amount of methionine and cysteine would be oxidized, producing 960 mg of sulfur, or 2.8 g/day of inorganic sulfate. A daily intake of inorganic sulfate as high as 1.3 g/day can be obtained from water and other beverages (0.5 g/L × 2.6 L/day). A quantity of sulfate greater than this amount would likely be produced daily from metabolism of methionine and cysteine in food plus that derived from body protein turnover. An analysis of the sulfate content of various diets using foods purchased at supermarkets suggests a large variation in daily inorganic sulfate intake, ranging from 0.2 to 1.5 g (2.1–15.8 mmol)/day[1] (Florin et al., 1991). Metabolism of organic sulfur compounds, such as methionine and cysteine, supplies over half of the sulfate; the remainder is supplied from preformed sulfate in water and foods (see Table 7-1)."

"[In a low sulfate, sulfur amino acid-deficient diet], nitrogen retention increased when sodium sulfate was added to the diet in an amount equivalent to that provided by additional methionine (Zezulka and Calloway, 1976)." "Under these conditions, sulfate is probably used directly for PAPS biosynthesis, thereby sparing cysteine such that more of the cysteine is made available for protein synthesis and growth. A recent study in which lower levels of serum sulfate were detected when acetaminophen was given with glucosamine sulfate to normal adults provides additional support for a role of nonprotein sulfate in sulfation and metabolism of phenolic compounds (Hoffer et al., 2001). In humans, sulfate ingestion would almost always exceed 3 g/day as a result of sulfate ingestion in food and water, together with the sulfate produced in the body from metabolism."

"Approximately 19 percent of total sulfate comes from ingested inorganic sulfate from foods and 17 percent of total comes from inorganic sulfate in drinking water and beverages (Table 7-1). Many other sulfur compounds in food can yield inorganic sulfate as a result of degradation or turnover. Among organic compounds, methionine and cysteine in food proteins, glutathione in both animal and vegetable products (Wierzbicka et al., 1989), taurine in animal-source foods, lanthionine (a cross-linked sulfur amino acid produced when protein-bound cysteine undergoes heat treatment at an alkaline pH), and sulfated glycosaminoglycans in both plant-and animal-derived foods are important contributors of organic sulfate, providing the remaining approximately 64 percent of total sulfate available for body needs."

"Metabolic acidosis has been shown to result from consumption of “flowers of sulfur,” a fine, yellow powder that is more than 99.5 percent pure sulfur (Blum and Coe, 1977; Schwartz et al., 1986)."

"Sulfate and undigested sulfur compounds have been implicated in the etiology of ulcerative colitis (Magee et al., 2000; Pitcher and Cummings, 1996; Roediger et al., 1997). The specific agent is thought to be hydrogen sulfide, which is produced in the colon from sulfate by sulfate-reducing bacteria. Sulfate-reducing bacteria use either sulfate or sulfite as a terminal electron acceptor, releasing sulfide into the lumen where it is converted to hydrogen sulfide gas (H2S) (Pitcher and Cummings, 1996). It is now clear that sulfate can also enter the colon from unabsorbed dietary sulfate as well as from unabsorbed sulfur amino acids, taurine, and sulfur-containing food additives (e.g., sulfur dioxide, sulfites, and carrageenan). A portion of the sulfate produced from amino-acid turnover can also reenter the gut from the circulation (Garcia and Stipanuk, 1992). Excess luminal sulfide is thought to overburden mucosal detoxification systems, resulting in impaired butyrate oxidation and colonic epithelial inflammation."

"Sodium sulfate supplementation has been demonstrated to inhibit methaneogenesis and stimulate the growth of sulfate-reducing bacteria in the colon of humans (Christl et al., 1992). Experimentally, colitis has been produced in Guinea pigs and rabbits that were given degraded carrageenan, sodium lignosulfate, or sulfated amylopectin in their drinking water (Marcus and Watt, 1969, 1974). It was also produced in rats, mice, and hamsters by administration of dextran sulfate sodium (Carrier et al., 2002; Ohkusa, 1985; Okayasu et al., 1990)."

"Among the amino acids in protein, cysteine and cystine are well known to be among the poorest absorbed from the upper small intestine (NRC, 1994). Heat treatment of proteins contributes to the poor digestibility of cysteine because heating protein causes cysteine to be oxidized to cystine, a dimer that is poorly absorbed (Miller et al., 2001; Parsons et al., 1992)."

"These observations, together with the fact that fecal sulfide levels are elevated in ulcerative colitis patients (Florin et al., 1990; Pitcher et al., 1995), add credence to the link between colonic sulfide levels and ulcerative colitis. Indeed, drug therapy involving 5-aminosalicylic acid (Pitcher et al., 1995; Roediger and Duncan, 1996) and gentamycin (Pitcher et al., 1994) for ulcerative colitis is known to suppress hydrogen sulfide production. Moreover, standard therapy for ulcerative colitis patients has included restriction of foods, such as milk, eggs, and cheese, that are significant sources of dietary sulfur (Truelove, 1961)."

"Increased serum sulfate levels are a common feature of kidney failure. Levels of serum sulfate may be elevated 7 to 24 times the normal level in an individual with acute renal failure. In end-stage renal disease, hemodialysis and peritoneal dialysis treatment remove sulfate, but serum sulfate levels are often still elevated (Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Holmes et al., 1960; Kirschbaum, 1998). Increased serum sulfate concentration results in increased complexation with calcium, and this may in part be responsible for the parathyroid stimulation that occurs in chronic renal disease (Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Michalk et al., 1981). The hypersulfatemia of chronic renal failure may directly affect the trans-sulfuration pathway and contribute to the severity of homocysteinemia typically seen in this condition (Nakanishi et al., 2002)."​

@chrismturner89
@DaveFoster
@pinacolada
@Sheila

Look how cute you're in alphabetical order. This way no one feels inferior as a human being and cries as a consequence.
 

DaveFoster

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- NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread

"Several investigators have reported that methionine supplementation on a protein-free diet reduces body weight loss and improves nitrogen balance in rats (13), chickens (14), pigs (15), and dogs (16). Our own work (17) has confirmed the earlier suggestion (18) that the methionine response is not due to methionine per se but instead to methionine furnishing sulfur for cysteine biosynthesis via transsulfuration. Indeed, cysteine supplementation elicits a response equal to or greater than methionine. Protein turnover (degradation and synthesis) is an ongoing body process, even when no protein is being consumed. A portion of the amino acids released from body protein catabolism is oxidized and therefore not available for resynthesis of new protein. The cysteine response observed when a protein-free diet is fed implies that this amino acid is substantially depleted from body pools, making it the first limiting amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis."​

- The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

"The two formulae used were casein predominant and therefore reasonably low in cysteine. Thus, the supplementation with taurine may have a cysteine-sparing effect and make more cysteine available for protein synthesis, thereby decreasing the necessity for increased endogenous protein breakdown."​

- Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Depletes DHEA-S And Other Sulfated Steroids

"Cysteine and methionine are not stored in the body. Any dietary excess is readily oxidized to sulfate, excreted in the urine (or reabsorbed depending on dietary levels) or stored in the form of glutathione (GSH). Even in extreme situations, such as when tryptophane deficiency leads to a general catabolic effect, the organism tries to spare the loss of sulfur by continuing to store any available sulfur as GSH in the liver [17]."

"Since all the dietary supplements investigated containing sulfate, including MSM [27] are readily metabolized prior or shortly after absorption to sulfate or small molecular weight intermediates, they should be able to spare losses of GSH associated with dietary deficiencies, increased utilization due to disease or altered immune function."

"In general, the ratio of cysteine/methionine is close to one for poultry and red meat protein, and to 0.7 for fish. Dairy products tend to have slightly higher levels of methionine and starch-rich foods slightly more cysteine. Eggs contain significantly more cysteine."​

- Sparing of Methionine Requirements: Evaluation of Human Data Takes Sulfur Amino Acids Beyond Protein (seems familiar, but can't remember if it was already posted elsewhere)

"[..]cysteine [rather than methionine] may be more effective at maintaining cysteine and glutathione homeostasis (8)."

"Animal studies have shown that ~50–60% of the SAA requirement could be met by dietary cysteine (1,8). Several studies in humans, summarized in Table 1, do not differ significantly in their outcomes but rather in the interpretation of the data. The consensus appears to be that the requirement for SAA ranges from 13 to 21 mg·kg-1·d-1, that the need for methionine alone is between 5 and 13 mg·kg-1·d-1, and that cyst(e)ine may spare the requirement for methionine."

"As discuss'd [what a coincidence, the author must have elevated prolactin as well] earlier, the drive for methionine requirements may rest in the need for methionine beyond its use for protein synthesis, especially when considering the evolution of disease. The need for methyl groups has been viewed as a separate dietary need, although for humans, the major source of methyl group in foods comes from methionine (∼10 mmol methyl/d), from N-methyltetrahydrofolate (∼5 to 10 mmol methyl/d), and from choline (∼30 mmol methyl/d). The interrelationship of these 3 components of the diet makes it imperative that all 3 be assessed in an attempt to determine the requirement of each. Because ∼15 to 30% of the population may have increased dietary methyl needs because of genetic polymorphisms in enzymes related to methyl group metabolism (28,29), it is logical that the requirement for methionine as well as cysteine may be affected by the need for methyl groups."

"[..]supplementation with phosphatidylcholine also decreased post-methionine-loading HCY concentrations in 26 healthy men (27). Taken together, these data emphasize the importance of methyl group availability in SAA homeostasis and raise the question of whether betaine and choline could contribute to methionine sparing. This would, parenthetically, imply that cysteine availability versus HCY catabolism might be affected by the dietary intake of alternate sources of methyl groups."

"Grimble and Grimble (32,33) see a vital role for the SAA in the regulation of the immune system, especially as related to the maintenance of GSH levels that classically fall after inflammatory challenge. The liver is one of the primary sites for GSH synthesis as well as for the production of acute-phase proteins. At low intakes of SAA, antioxidant defenses may be compromised because of preferential incorporation of cysteine into the synthesis of cysteine-rich proteins instead of GSH (34,35)."

"[..]the nature of AA delivery (i.e., free vs. in protein) will influence the biological endpoints of interest. The risk of deleterious effects of high methionine intake in the free form relate to alterations in the thiol redox balance and could be reduced by supplementary cyst(e)ine. In fact, supplementation with the cysteine precursor N-acetylcysteine (NAC) has been shown to partially attenuate the excessive increase in HCY in plasma and oxidized HCY in whole blood (53). Although dietary cyst(e)ine may have only a small effect on total SAA requirements, it plays an important role in balancing the potentially toxic effects of free methionine."

"Because findings suggest that certain protein-rich foods may have a lower HCY response on the basis of their ratio of methionine:serine:cysteine, the potential public health implications of attempts to alter specific amino acid content of proteins (54) are large. Earlier reports that a high-protein, high-methionine diet does not raise HCY compared to low-protein, low-methionine diets (55) will lead to consideration of the healthy benefits of specific proteins and possible alternate sources of cysteine. Vegetarian diets have been reported to have protective effects against chronic degenerative diseases related to a lower content of methionine, lysine, and tryptophan. However, the possibility that proteins containing high methionine balanced with appropriate cyst(e)ine content may be engineered is an intriguing thought."​

- Dietary Reference Intakes for Water, Potassium, Sodium, Chloride, and Sulfate | Institute of the Medicines

"Sulfate is produced in the body from the transsulfuration of methionine to cysteine, followed by the oxidation of cysteine to pyruvate and inorganic sulfate. These processes occur as a result of protein turnover, as well as from degradation of excess protein-derived methionine or cysteine. Inorganic sulfate also results from the metabolism of several organic and inorganic sulfur compounds present in food and water. Glutathione, an important antioxidant compound, is one of the more studied nonprotein organic sources of sulfate in the diet."

"There are hundreds of sulfur-containing compounds in the human body, and the body synthesizes all of them, with the exception of the vitamins thiamin and biotin. Precursors include sulfate obtained from dietary intake and ingestion of the indispensable amino acids methionine and cysteine (cysteine is considered conditionally indispensable) (Shils et al., 1999)."

"One of the important roles for sulfate is in the biosynthesis of 3′-phosphoadenosine-5′-phosphosulfate (PAPS). Inorganic sulfate is required along with adenosine triphosphate. PAPS, also known as active sulfate, is used in the biosynthesis of many essential body compounds (Box 7-1), some of which are not absorbed intact when present in foods."

"Gastrointestinal absorption of sulfate can occur in the stomach, small intestine, and colon (Anast et al., 1965; Batt, 1969; Cardin and Mason, 1975, 1976; Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Kandylis, 1983; Kaneko-Mohammed and Hogben, 1964). Absorption is a sodium-dependent active process (Ahearn and Murer, 1984; Florin et al., 1991; Langridge-Smith et al., 1983). When soluble sulfate salts (e.g., potassium sulfate or sodium sulfate) are consumed, more than 80 percent of oral sulfate doses are absorbed, as shown by isotopic tracer studies (Bauer, 1976; Florin et al., 1991).

With insoluble sulfate salts, such as barium sulfate, almost no absorption occurs (Ahmed and Hamza, 1989). When magnesium sulfate is used to promote osmotic diarrhea, sulfate absorption is inversely proportional to the extent of the osmotic effect. Sulfate that is not absorbed in the upper gastrointestinal tract passes to the large intestine and colon, where it is either excreted in the feces, reabsorbed, or reduced by anaerobic bacteria to metabolites, such as hydrogen sulfide (Pitcher and Cummings, 1996; Roediger et al., 1997)."

"If one assumes that adults whose dietary protein needs are being met will consume a daily intake of 2 g of methionine and 2 g of cysteine, an equal amount of methionine and cysteine would be oxidized, producing 960 mg of sulfur, or 2.8 g/day of inorganic sulfate. A daily intake of inorganic sulfate as high as 1.3 g/day can be obtained from water and other beverages (0.5 g/L × 2.6 L/day). A quantity of sulfate greater than this amount would likely be produced daily from metabolism of methionine and cysteine in food plus that derived from body protein turnover. An analysis of the sulfate content of various diets using foods purchased at supermarkets suggests a large variation in daily inorganic sulfate intake, ranging from 0.2 to 1.5 g (2.1–15.8 mmol)/day[1] (Florin et al., 1991). Metabolism of organic sulfur compounds, such as methionine and cysteine, supplies over half of the sulfate; the remainder is supplied from preformed sulfate in water and foods (see Table 7-1)."

"[In a low sulfate, sulfur amino acid-deficient diet], nitrogen retention increased when sodium sulfate was added to the diet in an amount equivalent to that provided by additional methionine (Zezulka and Calloway, 1976)." "Under these conditions, sulfate is probably used directly for PAPS biosynthesis, thereby sparing cysteine such that more of the cysteine is made available for protein synthesis and growth. A recent study in which lower levels of serum sulfate were detected when acetaminophen was given with glucosamine sulfate to normal adults provides additional support for a role of nonprotein sulfate in sulfation and metabolism of phenolic compounds (Hoffer et al., 2001). In humans, sulfate ingestion would almost always exceed 3 g/day as a result of sulfate ingestion in food and water, together with the sulfate produced in the body from metabolism."

"Approximately 19 percent of total sulfate comes from ingested inorganic sulfate from foods and 17 percent of total comes from inorganic sulfate in drinking water and beverages (Table 7-1). Many other sulfur compounds in food can yield inorganic sulfate as a result of degradation or turnover. Among organic compounds, methionine and cysteine in food proteins, glutathione in both animal and vegetable products (Wierzbicka et al., 1989), taurine in animal-source foods, lanthionine (a cross-linked sulfur amino acid produced when protein-bound cysteine undergoes heat treatment at an alkaline pH), and sulfated glycosaminoglycans in both plant-and animal-derived foods are important contributors of organic sulfate, providing the remaining approximately 64 percent of total sulfate available for body needs."

"Metabolic acidosis has been shown to result from consumption of “flowers of sulfur,” a fine, yellow powder that is more than 99.5 percent pure sulfur (Blum and Coe, 1977; Schwartz et al., 1986)."

"Sulfate and undigested sulfur compounds have been implicated in the etiology of ulcerative colitis (Magee et al., 2000; Pitcher and Cummings, 1996; Roediger et al., 1997). The specific agent is thought to be hydrogen sulfide, which is produced in the colon from sulfate by sulfate-reducing bacteria. Sulfate-reducing bacteria use either sulfate or sulfite as a terminal electron acceptor, releasing sulfide into the lumen where it is converted to hydrogen sulfide gas (H2S) (Pitcher and Cummings, 1996). It is now clear that sulfate can also enter the colon from unabsorbed dietary sulfate as well as from unabsorbed sulfur amino acids, taurine, and sulfur-containing food additives (e.g., sulfur dioxide, sulfites, and carrageenan). A portion of the sulfate produced from amino-acid turnover can also reenter the gut from the circulation (Garcia and Stipanuk, 1992). Excess luminal sulfide is thought to overburden mucosal detoxification systems, resulting in impaired butyrate oxidation and colonic epithelial inflammation."

"Sodium sulfate supplementation has been demonstrated to inhibit methaneogenesis and stimulate the growth of sulfate-reducing bacteria in the colon of humans (Christl et al., 1992). Experimentally, colitis has been produced in Guinea pigs and rabbits that were given degraded carrageenan, sodium lignosulfate, or sulfated amylopectin in their drinking water (Marcus and Watt, 1969, 1974). It was also produced in rats, mice, and hamsters by administration of dextran sulfate sodium (Carrier et al., 2002; Ohkusa, 1985; Okayasu et al., 1990)."

"Among the amino acids in protein, cysteine and cystine are well known to be among the poorest absorbed from the upper small intestine (NRC, 1994). Heat treatment of proteins contributes to the poor digestibility of cysteine because heating protein causes cysteine to be oxidized to cystine, a dimer that is poorly absorbed (Miller et al., 2001; Parsons et al., 1992)."

"These observations, together with the fact that fecal sulfide levels are elevated in ulcerative colitis patients (Florin et al., 1990; Pitcher et al., 1995), add credence to the link between colonic sulfide levels and ulcerative colitis. Indeed, drug therapy involving 5-aminosalicylic acid (Pitcher et al., 1995; Roediger and Duncan, 1996) and gentamycin (Pitcher et al., 1994) for ulcerative colitis is known to suppress hydrogen sulfide production. Moreover, standard therapy for ulcerative colitis patients has included restriction of foods, such as milk, eggs, and cheese, that are significant sources of dietary sulfur (Truelove, 1961)."

"Increased serum sulfate levels are a common feature of kidney failure. Levels of serum sulfate may be elevated 7 to 24 times the normal level in an individual with acute renal failure. In end-stage renal disease, hemodialysis and peritoneal dialysis treatment remove sulfate, but serum sulfate levels are often still elevated (Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Holmes et al., 1960; Kirschbaum, 1998). Increased serum sulfate concentration results in increased complexation with calcium, and this may in part be responsible for the parathyroid stimulation that occurs in chronic renal disease (Cole and Evrovski, 2000; Michalk et al., 1981). The hypersulfatemia of chronic renal failure may directly affect the trans-sulfuration pathway and contribute to the severity of homocysteinemia typically seen in this condition (Nakanishi et al., 2002)."​

@chrismturner89
@DaveFoster
@pinacolada
@Sheila

Look how cute you're in alphabetical order. This way no one feels inferior as a human being and cries as a consequence.
Indeed. Interesting, thank you. This would support aspirin's benefits to longevity, but I'm curious regarding methionine's contribution, if any, to dementia. Further, the relative deficiency or methionine in certain cheeses could explain the superior health of many in France, which includes protection against metabolic syndrome.
 

Ingenol

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With the recent discussion of DNP as a therapeutic, I am reminded that NAC is often advised to be taken with DNP to prevent cataracts. I wonder to what extent taking antioxidants with an uncoupler like this is beneficial or not. Presumably dosing could be very important.
 

Amazoniac

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Indeed. Interesting, thank you. This would support aspirin's benefits to longevity, but I'm curious regarding methionine's contribution, if any, to dementia. Further, the relative deficiency or methionine in certain cheeses could explain the superior health of many in France, which includes protection against metabolic syndrome.
What do you mean?

I begun searching for such information after questioning how much taurine would be required to provide all the sulfur that methionine and cysteine do in an usual diet. It was suggested above that when you consume 4 g of both, they would be providing about 960 mg of sulfur. This simplification to 24% seems alright and can be used for taurine as well; same thing if you're dealing with cystine since it's comprised of two molecules of cysteine and the difference is negligible, so in nutrition apps one can be used in place of the other. But 4 g isn't unlikely to be obtained if the person eats 150 g of animal protein.

The problem is that I don't know if the body can degrade taurine to extract its sulfur for other purposes, it's excreted intact. But at least it can spare the other amino acids (and enhance protein utilization).

Strained yogurts have the cysteine:methionine ratio more balanced in relation to cheeses, which in turn have more methionine and less cysteine for the same amount of protein.

- Cheese - Wikipedia

Kalos consumes cheese the most, about 80 g a day (assuming the graph is for a year, not a week), but if it's whole, it provides only 15 g or so of proteid (0.5 mg of methionine + cysteine), it can be even less, so the positive effect must come from something else such as calcium or fat-soluble toxins. Speaking of which..

- Phytanic acid—an overlooked bioactive fatty acid in dairy fat?

"Milk fat is the most complex type of fat occurring in nature, at present more than 400 different fatty acids have been identified.[6] Although normally only 12 different fatty acids constitute more than 1% of the total fatty acid mass, and around 70% of these are saturated, the huge pool of minor fatty acids might contain several molecules that have protective effects, either alone or through synergistic actions.[6,7]"​
 

Sheila

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Messages
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Interesting, thank you dear Amazoniac.
In renal failure these results remind me of Peat's suggestion that kidney failure should be considered an issue with digestion first and foremost (or words to that effect). If the body responds to excess dietary sulphate by favouring the growth of sulphate-reducing bacteria is this compensation? Outside of excess consumption, what mechanism has faltered that now makes sulphur recycling problematic? If memory serves, sulphate reducing bacteria prefer a pretty anaerobic environment suggesting that conditions were already cosy for their proliferation. Could this be due to poor digestion from the get go that merely has a knock on effect? Sulphate ions also have a stabilisation role in the blood colloid, the oddly named per the 'zeta principle'.
As always, more questions than answers.
I appreciate you tagging me.
As ever, best wishes
Sheila
 

Amazoniac

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Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
Interesting, thank you dear Amazoniac.
In renal failure these results remind me of Peat's suggestion that kidney failure should be considered an issue with digestion first and foremost (or words to that effect). If the body responds to excess dietary sulphate by favouring the growth of sulphate-reducing bacteria is this compensation? Outside of excess consumption, what mechanism has faltered that now makes sulphur recycling problematic? If memory serves, sulphate reducing bacteria prefer a pretty anaerobic environment suggesting that conditions were already cosy for their proliferation. Could this be due to poor digestion from the get go that merely has a knock on effect? Sulphate ions also have a stabilisation role in the blood colloid, the oddly named per the 'zeta principle'.
As always, more questions than answers.
I appreciate you tagging me.
As ever, best wishes
Sheila
Hi, Sheila.
Miss'd your message.

Whenever I come across someone suggesting taurine supplementation in grams, I wonder if this person isn't after the sulfur.

Without knowing the extent of taurine shortage in disease, but having an idea of average synthesis in wealth and the information above, the wonderition doesn't seem too off.
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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