My Varicocele Makes Me Depressed

[TreasureVibe]

I think it is ridiculous that in this world, after hundreds of years of medical knowledge, research and studies, with billions of money available, the cause and cure for a varicocele cannot be found. It frustrates me. It makes me angry with the scientific world.

Ever since my varicocele appeared, I have felt a continuous depletion of energy, lackluster in life and lingering depression. I'm only 23 yet I see men of my age in the fullness of their health enjoying life, and I know I cannot do that. I am convinced my varicocele and probably everyone's else his varicocele is a direct dysfunction in distribution of testosterone rich blood in the body, causing all sorts of troubles.

I have done alot of research and the only thing I came up with which actually works, albeit for a day or 2, is a thorough finger massaging/rubbing in between the leg and the scrotum on the left side. I had some days that I did this until it felt painful and sore, and the varicocele would dissapear for 2 days, only to show its ugly face again after. I would feel great in these 2 days and it amazed me it actually worked for so long. I found a connection with the adductor muscles that, when stretched temporarily made the varicocele dissapear.

Also, in my experiments, I found that taking ashwagandha made the varicocele dissapear for a day, and I attributed this to some kind of stress elevation which caused a muscle to relax, or some sort of effect on the (para)sympathetic nerve system.

Anyways, although I've come pretty far, still there is no long term solution. And that, for a stupid tiny little vein. I'm amazed they can cure cancer but a tiny varicose vein is too much asked for..

Sexually I feel inhibited. With varicocele it doesn't feel satisfying or rewarding anymore. Blood just doesn't get to where it belongs during climax, causing a dull end to something that is supposed to be one of the best bodily sensations a man can feel.

 

[JohnBonham]

Magnesium, dude.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Magnesium, dude.

Does magnesium treat varicocele? I have tried magnesium before but I didn't notice any effect on my varicocele.

 

[Wagner83]

I have a varicocele I've noticed it changes my life. It comes and goes throughout the day/night. Varicosed vein are supposedly connected with estrogens. I'd guess posture, pelvic floor tensions and sitting too much play a part. I could be wrong but I think you give it a lot of importance.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I have a varicocele I've noticed it changes my life. It comes and goes throughout the day/night. Varicosed vein are supposedly connected with estrogens. I'd guess posture, pelvic floor tensions and sitting too much play a part. I could be wrong but I think you give it a lot of importance.

No it is significant to my feeling of wellbeing and health, I am a 100% sure. When the varicocele is in full effect, I feel restricted in my behavior and attitude, have a higher pitch in my voice and feel less powerful than other men.

For the experts: Vitamin D3 4000 to 5000 IU worsened my varicocele alot when it had developed, making it more tight and painful. What could this mean?

 

[Wagner83]

For the experts: Vitamin D3 4000 to 5000 IU worsened my varicocele alot when it had developed, making it more tight and painful. What could this mean?

That you shouldn't take it. Perhaps @Travis has some insights on this, given the role of vitamin c on healthy collagen and cardiovascular health perhaps it could be (very) helpful? I remember reading about someone who supplemented bioflavonoids (diosmin, hesperidin etc..) and possibly a herb or two, he did two or three months cycles of this and it disappeared for good (well, long enough). I don't know if I would recommend pycnogenol but it does help a lot with vein health. Topical vitamin e could be worth looking into. Given that you saw results with physical exercise/massage, maybe other forms of physical activity like proper yoga and breathing could help. When I'm anxious/tensed I tend to contract the pelvic floor, disturbed digestion can produce similar results imo (hemorrhoids issue etc..).
2c

 

[Diokine]

I noticed you said your issue is on the left side. I think that this is related to inflammation in the mesentary vasculature - I've noticed a pronounced swelling of my left testicle during periods of intestinal inflammation. I think that this is mediated via serotonin - the inflammation causes changes in the sensitivity of nerves near the sacrum and pelvis, which will fatigue the sympathetic nerves controlling blood flow to this region. This will lead to generalized endothelial dysfunction, characterized by accumulation of acetylcholine and generation of nitric oxide, along with swelling of vessels.

Ascorbic acid is critically important for endothelial maintenance, and it has shown good use in therapy of variocele, along with taurine.

Very deep stretching (**** to grass squats, deep lunging) is also very effective - somatic motor axons (connecting to skeletal muscle, used for movement and balance) in the spinal cord directly contribute to acetylcholine turnover - surgical resection of these neurons results in gross reduction of acetylcholinesterase activity.

 

[AretnaP]

Haidut mentioned before that varicoceles are very likely caused by the estrogen boost at puberty.

Vitamin E + niacinamide is really good, anything that lowers estrogen, nitric oxide or prevents lipid peroxidation is good.

other things that are good:
high-zinc diet (zinc opposes PUFA, NO, and estrogen)
magnesium
methylene blue
thiamine

bad:
PUFA
anything that raises nitric oxide

 

[raypeatclips]

That you shouldn't take it. Perhaps has some insights on this, given the role of vitamin c on healthy collagen and cardiovascular health perhaps it could be (very) helpful? I remember reading about someone who supplemented bioflavonoids (diosmin, hesperidin etc..) and possibly a herb or two, he did two or three months cycles of this and it disappeared for good (well, long enough). I don't know if I would recommend pycnogenol but it does help a lot with vein health. Topical vitamin e could be worth looking into. Given that you saw results with physical exercise/massage, maybe other forms of physical activity like proper yoga and breathing could help. When I'm anxious/tensed I tend to contract the pelvic floor, disturbed digestion can produce similar results imo (hemorrhoids issue etc..).
2c

Any idea how to solve that contracted pelvic floor issue? I have varicocele and suspected hemorroids too.

 

[Wagner83]

Any idea how to solve that contracted pelvic floor issue? I have varicocele and suspected hemorroids too.

I've had two thrombosed hemorrhoids in the past but just rare itchiness since then. Removing most raw vegetables fibers, mustard, vinegar, spices and if possible constipation as well as never pushing when defecating all helped. So I'd say remove irritation and optimizr transit (nothing new).
As for tensions being aware of them and releasing good them is a start, the things I mentioned before and maybe magnesium could help. Breathing into the pelvic floor / reverse kegels could help too. I'm no expert though, I know masturbating with bad habits is awful (porn tends to make one clench his pf muscles way too much and early imo).

 

[TreasureVibe]

That you shouldn't take it. Perhaps @Travis has some insights on this, given the role of vitamin c on healthy collagen and cardiovascular health perhaps it could be (very) helpful? I remember reading about someone who supplemented bioflavonoids (diosmin, hesperidin etc..) and possibly a herb or two, he did two or three months cycles of this and it disappeared for good (well, long enough). I don't know if I would recommend pycnogenol but it does help a lot with vein health. Topical vitamin e could be worth looking into. Given that you saw results with physical exercise/massage, maybe other forms of physical activity like proper yoga and breathing could help. When I'm anxious/tensed I tend to contrHmact the pelvic floor, disturbed digestion can produce similar results imo (hemorrhoids issue etc..).
2c

Thanks for your reply. Hmm interesting. I did try pycnogenol, it didn't help. I have considered diosmin/hesperidin combo, but didn't try it yet due to costs (it was fairly expensive). However from a Youtube info video I learned that diosmin/hesperidin was effective at varicose veins due to biochemical deterioration, while I am still confused what is causing varicocele, perhaps compression for example could play a part. I will however truey consider doing three months cycles of diosmin and hesperidin, what do you advice as herbs to go together with it? I have tried vitamin E, it didn't do anything for my varicocele although it did improve my erections notably sometimes. Not always though, just at arbitrary occasions when I used vitamin E, orally. I swished it around in my mouth with some olive oil before swallowing, as I have read on here before could be beneficial.

I noticed you said your issue is on the left side. I think that this is related to inflammation in the mesentary vasculature - I've noticed a pronounced swelling of my left testicle during periods of intestinal inflammation. I think that this is mediated via serotonin - the inflammation causes changes in the sensitivity of nerves near the sacrum and pelvis, which will fatigue the sympathetic nerves controlling blood flow to this region. This will lead to generalized endothelial dysfunction, characterized by accumulation of acetylcholine and generation of nitric oxide, along with swelling of vessels.

Ascorbic acid is critically important for endothelial maintenance, and it has shown good use in therapy of variocele, along with taurine.

Very deep stretching (**** to grass squats, deep lunging) is also very effective - somatic motor axons (connecting to skeletal muscle, used for movement and balance) in the spinal cord directly contribute to acetylcholine turnover - surgical resection of these neurons results in gross reduction of acetylcholinesterase activity.

Hmm interesting, what do you consider to be effective for this intestinal inflammation? I have tried vitamin C and taurine together before, but it didn't do much for my varicocele. I must note that I did not have swelling of the actual testicle as far as I am aware. What really helped best so far was the harsh massaging in the deep tissue between the scrotum and left leg. This has brought alot of relief. Also indeed squats, the ''garland pose'' yoga squat helped. Also, does the surgical procedure you mention exist? What is its name? Thanks.

Haidut mentioned before that varicoceles are very likely caused by the estrogen boost at puberty.

Vitamin E + niacinamide is really good, anything that lowers estrogen, nitric oxide or prevents lipid peroxidation is good.

other things that are good:
high-zinc diet (zinc opposes PUFA, NO, and estrogen)
magnesium
methylene blue
thiamine

bad:
PUFA
anything that raises nitric oxide

Oh I never knew niacinamide was anti-estrogen! That is amazing. I have indeed had beneficial effects with vitamin E as I mentioned earlier, but only for erections, and this was arbritrary. I will try niacinamide and vitamin E both. However I recall having read on this forum before that Ray Peat mentioned that niacinamide (the flush free B3) could cause liver enlargement. Is this true, and is this significant? What doses should I use? Also where can I find methylene blue? I cannot find it being sold anywhere on the internet. I will try the high zinc diet, any recommendations of foods for that? And do you recommend supplementing thiamine (vitamin B1) or should I get it from my food? Any particular food sources high in vitamin B1 that you recommend? And what do you advice for magnesium intake? Thank you :)

 

[AretnaP]

Oh I never knew niacinamide was anti-estrogen! That is amazing. I have indeed had beneficial effects with vitamin E as I mentioned earlier, but only for erections, and this was arbritrary. I will try niacinamide and vitamin E both. However I recall having read on this forum before that Ray Peat mentioned that niacinamide (the flush free B3) could cause liver enlargement. Is this true, and is this significant? What doses should I use? Also where can I find methylene blue? I cannot find it being sold anywhere on the internet. I will try the high zinc diet, any recommendations of foods for that? And do you recommend supplementing thiamine (vitamin B1) or should I get it from my food? Any particular food sources high in vitamin B1 that you recommend? And what do you advice for magnesium intake? Thank you :)

Niacinamide isn't as anti-estrogen as Vitamin E, but it will block some of estrogen's toxic effects (raising nitric oxide and promoting inflammation).

Peat has talked about how estrogen's main function seems to be it's inflammatory property, and niacinamide certainly helps with inflammation.

As for dosages, I would say for niacinamide somewhere around 500 mg per day (that's how much the average pill has in it anyway).

When it comes to vitamin E Peat reccomends about 400 mg per day for fertility, but @haidut recommends higher.

The amount of Vit E you need depends on the amount of PUFA you eat.

There is also some reason to believe that l-carnitine can help with varicocele, in this study 250 mg l-carnitine/day (1gram/total) was as good as varicocelectomy for semen parameters.
Comparison of the Effects of Varicocelectomy and Oral L-carnitine on Sperm Parameters in Infertile Men with Varicocele

 

[TreasureVibe]

Niacinamide isn't as anti-estrogen as Vitamin E, but it will block some of estrogen's toxic effects (raising nitric oxide and promoting inflammation).

Peat has talked about how estrogen's main function seems to be it's inflammatory property, and niacinamide certainly helps with inflammation.

As for dosages, I would say for niacinamide somewhere around 500 mg per day (that's how much the average pill has in it anyway).

When it comes to vitamin E Peat reccomends about 400 mg per day for fertility, but @haidut recommends higher.

The amount of Vit E you need depends on the amount of PUFA you eat.

There is also some reason to believe that l-carnitine can help with varicocele, in this study 250 mg l-carnitine/day (1gram/total) was as good as varicocelectomy for semen parameters.
Comparison of the Effects of Varicocelectomy and Oral L-carnitine on Sperm Parameters in Infertile Men with Varicocele

Thanks, I want to give the niacinamide a chance, but is it safe for liver health? L-carnitine was bad I have read here before according to Ray Peat, is this true? I understand it could improve semen parameters but I am not intending to fix my varicocele for semen quality, but for testosterone levels and flow. The study does not make mention in what way L-carnitine helps varicocele. Does it shrink the actual varicocele? Then it's a good thing to use. But if it only has some type of antioxidant effect in the testicles when it comes to semen, it is of no use for me. I will try vitamin E in my vitamin regiment.

 

[AretnaP]

Thanks, I want to give the niacinamide a chance, but is it safe for liver health? L-carnitine was bad I have read here before according to Ray Peat, is this true? I understand it could improve semen parameters but I am not intending to fix my varicocele for semen quality, but for testosterone levels and flow. The study does not make mention in what way L-carnitine helps varicocele. Does it shrink the actual varicocele? Then it's a good thing to use. But if it only has some type of antioxidant effect in the testicles when it comes to semen, it is of no use for me.

Semen parameters will give you a good idea of the health of the testicle itself, so if you can greatly increase you sperm count and quality you will likely increase testosterone.

Carnitine probably has some kind of antioxidant function, which helps the testicles since the heat generated by the enlarged varicose vein with increase oxidative stress. It is possible that higher vitamin E could do the same thing.

I think either 400 mg vitamin E will probably take care of the issue if not you could add carnitine or simply more vitamin E (Peat would probably say more Vit E, but it's up to you).

As for niacinamide I have been on 500 mg per day for quite a while and have experienced basically no ill effects.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Semen parameters will give you a good idea of the health of the testicle itself, so if you can greatly increase you sperm count and quality you will likely increase testosterone.

Carnitine probably has some kind of antioxidant function, which helps the testicles since the heat generated by the enlarged varicose vein with increase oxidative stress. It is possible that higher vitamin E could do the same thing.

I think either 400 mg vitamin E will probably take care of the issue if not you could add carnitine or simply more vitamin E (Peat would probably say more Vit E, but it's up to you).

As for niacinamide I have been on 500 mg per day for quite a while and have experienced basically no ill effects.

Okay, I will look into the niacinamide, together with vitamin E and L-Carnitine. The point here is though that physical blood flow from the testicle to the rest of the body is inhibited by the varicocele. You can improve the amount of testosterone that is made in the testicle but if it never gets to the rest of the body you are not treating the root cause of the condition. I guess I am talking about total body testosterone saturation here, which is normally maintained by a steady flow from the testicle through the gonadal vein. If there is a varicocele, this steady flow is interrupted, removing the health benefits associated with sufficient testosterone saturation in the body. Do you agree with this thesis?

 

[AretnaP]

Okay, I will look into the niacinamide, together with vitamin E and L-Carnitine. The point here is though that physical blood flow from the testicle to the rest of the body is inhibited by the varicocele. You can improve the amount of testosterone that is made in the testicle but if it never gets to the rest of the body you are not treating the root cause of the condition. I guess I am talking about total body testosterone saturation here, which is normally maintained by a steady flow from the testicle through the gonadal vein. If there is a varicocele, this steady flow is interrupted, removing the health benefits associated with sufficient testosterone saturation in the body. Do you agree with this thesis?

Blood still pumps through varicose veins, even though they're enlarged, it's not as if the hormones in the vein will simply sit there and build up.

It's not the blood flow that causes issues in the varicocele, it's mainly the heat from the enlarged veins smothering the testicle and raising the temperature, which leads to increased oxidative stress and inflammation. The oxidative stress damages the tissue directly, similarly to how nitric oxide breaks down the blood-brain barrier in wernicke's encephalopathy. Inflammation damages the testicle because inflamed tissues cannot utilize oxygen as well.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Blood still pumps through varicose veins, even though they're enlarged, it's not as if the hormones in the vein will simply sit there and build up.

It's not the blood flow that causes issues in the varicocele, it's mainly the heat from the enlarged veins smothering the testicle and raising the temperature, which leads to increased oxidative stress and inflammation. The oxidative stress damages the tissue directly, similarly to how nitric oxide breaks down the blood-brain barrier in wernicke's encephalopathy. Inflammation damages the testicle because inflamed tissues cannot utilize oxygen as well.

Is it not true that blood pools in a varicocele? I think blood gets pumped through at a much slower rate, or a incoherent rate to say the least, causing problems. I doubt blood gets pumped through as efficiently as through a healthy vein. I now understand that testicle health is something that must be considered though.

 

[JohnBonham]

Does magnesium treat varicocele? I have tried magnesium before but I didn't notice any effect on my varicocele.

Magnesium made mine greatly improve. If you took vitamin D and your Varicocele got worse, that’s a major clue. It’s well known that Vitamin D causes people symptoms when they’re low in magnesium.
I stopped consuming so much calcium and started with around 800 mg magnesium throughout the day. It doesn’t happen overnight, but I got better after a few days. I’m not going to tell you what to do, just what worked for me.

 

[AretnaP]

Is it not true that blood pools in a varicocele? I think blood gets pumped through at a much slower rate, or a incoherent rate to say the least, causing problems. I doubt blood gets pumped through as efficiently as through a healthy vein. I now understand that testicle health is something that must be considered though.

I don't think blood flow is really a problem. The main way that varicose veins mess with blood flow is by letting some blood flow backwards.

Studies have shown that testosterone and seminal quality decline over years with varicocele. It won't be as bad for an 18 year old with one as a 40 year old with one. Testicular damage is the main issue. We know this because men with varicoceles often develop softer than normal testicles.

 

[raypeatclips]

Magnesium made mine greatly improve. If you took vitamin D and your Varicocele got worse, that’s a major clue. It’s well known that Vitamin D causes people symptoms when they’re low in magnesium.
I stopped consuming so much calcium and started with around 800 mg magnesium throughout the day. It doesn’t happen overnight, but I got better after a few days. I’m not going to tell you what to do, just what worked for me.

What's your source of magnesium?