My Starch Free And Zero Fiber Experiment

reality

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Those who have problems with starch have you tried starches with more amylopectin than amylose? Jasmine or sticky rice over basmati and certain potato variety’s (waxy)

surely the high amylopectin starches would be more akin to sugar and and have no resistant starch to cause issues
 

Blossom

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Honestly I don't know what to make of the whole vitamin A poisoning theory.
I don’t either. All I know is my personal experience and it helped me tremendously. I know taking vitamin A supplements while eating plenty of vitamin A foods was a huge (unintentional) mistake.
I think I'll be doing a carnivore'ish diet still relatively low in VA.
I was very reluctant to do that myself and thought about it long and hard for about a year before trying it. Ultimately we all have to figure out what way of eating works best for us. I absolutely hated the fact that I could never get my digestion and metabolism where I wanted it to be by following science and eating a more standard and socially acceptable diet but after 14 months I must admit it’s been the best fit for me. I’m getting stronger rather than weaker, functioning much better which is imperative at this point in my life and how I feel is reflected in my appearance as well. Perhaps some people just need a lot more animal products to thrive? That one was hard for me to accept as an ex-vegetarian/vegan. Best wishes to you @Korven.
 
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Hans

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how is it going so far?

i would love to know what you're doing for calories. i have enough trouble some days getting enough calories with both starch and fiber. Lol. If I could significantly reduce my fiber and starch in take I would. I will say that my digestion feels better without a doubt if I avoid both. I have bloating with occassional gas which i think is caused by either the fiber or starch. Might try it myself at some point
Hey man. Fatty ground beef, low fat milk, fruit juice and honey. If you want to up calories easily, add fat.
 
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Hans

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What do you believe is the max uptake of Amino Acids from one meal, and where does it start do be wasted majorily, catabolized to glucose or ammonia pathway? What is the lowest amounts of meals in your opinion to be mostly anabolic in a 16h eating window?
Digestion and uptake takes over 7 hours from a complex meal so if I have 50g protein per meal with carbs, my body stores and burns the carbs first and utilizes the slow absorption of amino acids for repair, muscle growth, neurotransmitters, etc.

Studies have shown that 4.4g/kg /BW of protein intake for at least one year didn't cause an increase in ammonia. This is obviously person specific. The 30g amino acid absorption from a meal myth is bunk.
However, research have shown that splitting protein intake over 3-4 meals in the day is superior for muscle growth.

I think there will always be a fraction of the amino acids that will be oxidized so I'm not worried about that. As long as you're not eating low carb as well.

In terms of the minimum meals, one meal can still give good results, but that doesn't mean it's optimal.
 
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Hans

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@Hans have you noticed less glycogen production since being starch free? Are you doing anything to maximize production?
I've not noticed a drop in energy if that's what you're referring to. Research shows that people on keto diet also have full glycogen stores.
 
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Digestion and uptake takes over 7 hours from a complex meal so if I have 50g protein per meal with carbs, my body stores and burns the carbs first and utilizes the slow absorption of amino acids for repair, muscle growth, neurotransmitters, etc.

Studies have shown that 4.4g/kg /BW of protein intake for at least one year didn't cause an increase in ammonia. This is obviously person specific. The 30g amino acid absorption from a meal myth is bunk.
However, research have shown that splitting protein intake over 3-4 meals in the day is superior for muscle growth.

I think there will always be a fraction of the amino acids that will be oxidized so I'm not worried about that. As long as you're not eating low carb as well.

In terms of the minimum meals, one meal can still give good results, but that doesn't mean it's optimal.


thank you!
 
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Hans

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How does that ratio compare to your regular diet (before zero starch/fiber)?
My protein and fats were lower and my carbs at about 600g when I was eating more starches.
 

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yes Absolutely Hans! I dropped all my excess bodyfat when I dropped pasta rice oatmeal potatoes bread products bagels heros etc.. list goes on and on...YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST ADD IN FATS OR ELSE YOU WILL COMPLETELY FEEL DEFLATED AND WEAK! I lift weights and play tennis etc. there is no way I could make it all work with fruit low fat milk sugar honey.......I add in a little starch now and then but I keep it in Check:)
 
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Hans

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yes Absolutely Hans! I dropped all my excess bodyfat when I dropped pasta rice oatmeal potatoes bread products bagels heros etc.. list goes on and on...YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST ADD IN FATS OR ELSE YOU WILL COMPLETELY FEEL DEFLATED AND WEAK! I lift weights and play tennis etc. there is no way I could make it all work with fruit low fat milk sugar honey.......I add in a little starch now and then but I keep it in Check:)
Thanks for sharing. My fats are decent at the moment. I would also not be able to do a liquid diet and feel much better with solids such as meat. The chewing also helps with face aesthetics :)
 

Korven

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I don’t either. All I know is my personal experience and it helped me tremendously. I know taking vitamin A supplements while eating plenty of vitamin A foods was a huge (unintentional) mistake.

I was very reluctant to do that myself and thought about it long and hard for about a year before trying it. Ultimately we all have to figure out what way of eating works best for us. I absolutely hated the fact that I could never get my digestion and metabolism where I wanted it to be by following science and eating a more standard and socially acceptable diet but after 14 months I must admit it’s been the best fit for me. I’m getting stronger rather than weaker, functioning much better which is imperative at this point in my life and how I feel is reflected in my appearance as well. Perhaps some people just need a lot more animal products to thrive? That one was hard for me to accept as an ex-vegetarian/vegan. Best wishes to you @Korven.

Really happy to hear you've found something that works so well for you!!

I think it takes courage to not listen to what science, society, conventional wisdom, hell even what Ray Peat says is healthy, and find out for yourself instead. Though it can also be awfully difficult to know when you should reconsider what you're currently doing and try something else instead.

Was also an ethical vegan for 3 years before my body just rejected any more roughage/fiber. Think I'm still dealing with second/third order consequences from those years.

Will definitely keep your story in mind moving forward, though I am worried that I'll just mess something else up long-term by being this restrictive. I am feeling much better already just by cutting out my trigger foods so that is good I think. Just want to be able to do normal stuff without falling apart.
 

julcreutz

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Thought I'd chime in. Have you guys ever tried replacing normal potatoes with sweet potatoes? Maybe some of you remember my posts about normal potatoes and my allergies/mouth breathing. Completly stopped when I swapped in the sweet potatoes. I know Peat is against Carotene, especially in these large amounts, but it affects me much less negatively than potatoes, if negatively at all. Feel great eating about 2-3 pounds of them a day.

EDIT: Regarding carotene/oxalates and testosterone. I will just say that I have the most rock-hard morning erections now. That only started recently. They were NEVER that strong.
 

Vegancrossfit

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EDIT: Regarding carotene/oxalates and testosterone. I will just say that I have the most rock-hard morning erections now. That only started recently. They were NEVER that strong.

not extremely peatarian but whenever I drop fats, and especially saturated, and carb the f*** up, well there’s certainly some unclogging happening. I don’t care about veganism (my username is sarcastic) however I don’t doubt that Randle cycle is very real and when you throw in long chain of carbon atoms that take forever to be broken down, you’re going to fill up lipoproteins and decrease blood flow and cause prolonged hyperglycemia which is damaging for the arteries. Starting with penile artery and hair capillaries. So I don’t doubt that going against Randle principles is what’s causing hair loss as well as ED, and why hair regrowth diets seem to always be a ton of fruit and a ton of pure starch.
 

CLASH

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I've been eating no starch, with high-moderate fat, high sugar, and moderate protein for years now. In my experience its important to make sure enough fat is eaten if starch isn't eaten. Sugar by itself is digested and absorbed rapidly allowing blood sugar to drop if not enough fat is eaten. The only difference I have between @Hans here is that I also dont tolerate dairy too well, so my diet is fruit, fruit juice, meat, seafood and monounsaturated/ saturated fat sources (tallow, macadamia nut oil, cocoa butter).

To the questions about using amylopectin vs amylose, I have systematically tried different starch types for weeks at a time. The type of starch did not make a difference for me. I used short grain sticky rice vs. long grain basmati, and new potato vs. russet potato, for the starch type.

I have tried plantains, yams, sweet potatoes, white potatoes and rice. Sweet potatoes and yams hit me the worst. The fodmaps in them bloat me up. The plantains make me very full and bloated as well but not as bad as yams/ sweet potatoes. White rice is by far the safest for me, my preference is jasmine. Even with rice tho, if I eat it in consecutive meals, and/ or I eat it multiple days in a row it starts to slow down my colonic transit time, bloat me a bit, and make me cold. Other grains dont sit too well either, beans are a hard no.
 

kreeese

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I've been eating no starch, with high-moderate fat, high sugar, and moderate protein for years now. In my experience its important to make sure enough fat is eaten if starch isn't eaten. Sugar by itself is digested and absorbed rapidly allowing blood sugar to drop if not enough fat is eaten. The only difference I have between @Hans here is that I also dont tolerate dairy too well, so my diet is fruit, fruit juice, meat, seafood and monounsaturated/ saturated fat sources (tallow, macadamia nut oil, cocoa butter).

To the questions about using amylopectin vs amylose, I have systematically tried different starch types for weeks at a time. The type of starch did not make a difference for me. I used short grain sticky rice vs. long grain basmati, and new potato vs. russet potato, for the starch type.

I have tried plantains, yams, sweet potatoes, white potatoes and rice. Sweet potatoes and yams hit me the worst. The fodmaps in them bloat me up. The plantains make me very full and bloated as well but not as bad as yams/ sweet potatoes. White rice is by far the safest for me, my preference is jasmine. Even with rice tho, if I eat it in consecutive meals, and/ or I eat it multiple days in a row it starts to slow down my colonic transit time, bloat me a bit, and make me cold. Other grains dont sit too well either, beans are a hard no.
definitely ...good stuff!!
 

YourUniverse

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I've been eating no starch, with high-moderate fat, high sugar, and moderate protein for years now. In my experience its important to make sure enough fat is eaten if starch isn't eaten. Sugar by itself is digested and absorbed rapidly allowing blood sugar to drop if not enough fat is eaten. The only difference I have between @Hans here is that I also dont tolerate dairy too well, so my diet is fruit, fruit juice, meat, seafood and monounsaturated/ saturated fat sources (tallow, macadamia nut oil, cocoa butter).

To the questions about using amylopectin vs amylose, I have systematically tried different starch types for weeks at a time. The type of starch did not make a difference for me. I used short grain sticky rice vs. long grain basmati, and new potato vs. russet potato, for the starch type.

I have tried plantains, yams, sweet potatoes, white potatoes and rice. Sweet potatoes and yams hit me the worst. The fodmaps in them bloat me up. The plantains make me very full and bloated as well but not as bad as yams/ sweet potatoes. White rice is by far the safest for me, my preference is jasmine. Even with rice tho, if I eat it in consecutive meals, and/ or I eat it multiple days in a row it starts to slow down my colonic transit time, bloat me a bit, and make me cold. Other grains dont sit too well either, beans are a hard no.
Have you tried masa harina?
 

CLASH

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Have you tried masa harina?

I have not. I have tried corn flakes, corn chips, homemade corn bread, and nixtamalized corn tortillas. The regular corn stuff took me off my baseline. The nixtamalized corn tortillas were about the same value for me as rice.

If I had to put a value on the different starches that I have tried in regards to how well they digested for me (all have been inferior to sugar), it would be something like this:

1) white rice
2) corn tortillas (nixtamilized)
3) oatmeal cookies
4) white potatoes/ cassava
5) plantains/ fried green bananas
6) yams/ sweet potatoes

Other grains and beans make me feel terrible. As for squashes and pumpkins, they are probably somewhere between oatmeal cookies and white potatoes, but I dont particularly like them and they aren't such a dense source of carbs (for the most part). I'd like to stipulate this with, this list is personal for me, other peoples mileages may vary.
 

Uselis

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I have not. I have tried corn flakes, corn chips, homemade corn bread, and nixtamalized corn tortillas. The regular corn stuff took me off my baseline. The nixtamalized corn tortillas were about the same value for me as rice.

If I had to put a value on the different starches that I have tried in regards to how well they digested for me (all have been inferior to sugar), it would be something like this:

1) white rice
2) corn tortillas (nixtamilized)
3) oatmeal cookies
4) white potatoes/ cassava
5) plantains/ fried green bananas
6) yams/ sweet potatoes

Other grains and beans make me feel terrible. As for squashes and pumpkins, they are probably somewhere between oatmeal cookies and white potatoes, but I dont particularly like them and they aren't such a dense source of carbs (for the most part). I'd like to stipulate this with, this list is personal for me, other peoples mileages may vary.

Hey how much calories you're averaging?
 

baccheion

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3000-3500kcal/ day
100g fat/ day
130-150g protein/ day
400-500g carbs/day
I wonder if it's true about 100g fat, 200g protein, and 500g carbs. Let's say all from milk and orange juice, with added liver + oysters. Maybe coconut oil if so obsessed with the PUFA in milk fat.
 

CLASH

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I wonder if it's true about 100g fat, 200g protein, and 500g carbs. Let's say all from milk and orange juice, with added liver + oysters. Maybe coconut oil if so obsessed with the PUFA in milk fat.

No milk, no Oj, liver once in a while, oysters weekly.

1-1.5lbs of meat/ seafood a day. As much pineapple, grape, pomegranate juice as I want. As much fresh and dried fruit as I want. Added beef tallow and macadamia nut oil for fat.
 

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