My Starch Free And Zero Fiber Experiment

[Vegancrossfit]

Milk OJ ice cream and tropical fruit are my favorites. Whole watermelons last me two days at most ha, my #1 fruit by far.

I do have rice and greens for dinner... considering beef instead. You guys seem to enjoy it all.

 

[Uselis]

Would be great if @Velve921 could briefly share his opinion on starch free lifestyle (otherwise apologies for taging).

I stumbled onto his old post where athletic performance of a sport team improved on starch free diet! :O

 

[Korven]

Most of 2020 I've been strictly starch free which has been tremendously helpful for CFS like symptoms (extreme fatigue/post exercise malaise) and not getting sick 2-4x per month (basically chronic state of endotoxemia/cold and flu like symptoms/sore throat). Symptoms have been getting steadily worse for years now so finding something that actually helps this condition was great.

However the past month or so I switched to getting most of my carbs from white rice, some potatoes and small amounts of well-cooked legumes, trying out a low VA approach for improving my skin.

Well, it's been ******* awful.

Interestingly, first few days of eating starch I felt a burning sensation in my gut and heartburn/acid reflux, which brings my mind to the studies where cows get ruminal acidosis from eating too much grains LPS and starches. I have been pooping 1-2 x per day but I can literally feel the starch clogging up my colon and fermenting, setting off the whole endotoxin - serotonin - histamine - estrogen cascade.

ALL of my symptoms have come back in full force since reintroducing starch. I get sick as a dog all the time and I can't do anything except for lie in bed and feel sorry for myself. This is no way of living, if the "vitamin A detox" actually is a real thing and this will continue for months or years before things get better, surely I will kill myself before it's over. I thought dairy was the culprit for my acne but I still get random breakouts while eating 0 dairy and taking antibiotics, so who knows.

Cut out all things except for meat for a few days and things are improving as the colon bloat goes down. I don't like the idea of long-term carnivore, but if it allows me to be a functional human being (and have at least semi-decent skin) I'm all for it.

edit: Tried a cocktail of endotoxin/TLR4 blockers with high dose vitamin D (30 K), tetracycline, emodin, pregnenolone, aspirin... still doesn't help with the starch problems.

 

[Highserotonin90]

What about if you combine alpha lipoic acid?

 

[Vegancrossfit]

This post just like many others here got me to be quickly reflecting on starch, fibre, low GI wHoLe GrAinS, ZERO SUGAR, being the absolute base pillars of every single “competent” nutritionist who’s “educated” and is 100% confident in what they “learnt in school”. Especially sugar, like DurianRider says you wanna have consensus and upvotes and act like an authority make sure you diss sugar first and foremost.

Such a funny field to look at at from the outside. They’re so pathetic

 

[gaze]

This post just like many others here got me to be quickly reflecting on starch, fibre, low GI wHoLe GrAinS, ZERO SUGAR, being the absolute base pillars of every single “competent” nutritionist who’s “educated” and is 100% confident in what they “learnt in school”. Especially sugar, like DurianRider says you wanna have consensus and upvotes and act like an authority make sure you diss sugar first and foremost.

Such a funny field to look at at from the outside. They’re so pathetic

“Judging by present and past statements of the American Dietetic Association, I think some kind of institutional brain defect might account for their recommendations. Although the dietetic association now feebly acknowledges that sugars don't raise the blood sugar more quickly than starches do, they can't get away from their absurd old recommendations, which were never scientifically justified“ - Ray Peat

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

 

[Anders86]

About 3 years starch free

I have tried some potato and felt good, but always ends in increased endotoxin symptoms.

My liver glycogen is lowered but I eat something every hour or two.

I need to be fiber free to be optimal me.

 

[Uselis]

About 3 years starch free

I have tried some potato and felt good, but always ends in increased endotoxin symptoms.

My liver glycogen is lowered but I eat something every hour or two.

I need to be fiber free to be optimal me.

Namaste

How is your lifestyle activity wise?

 

[Anders86]

Namaste

How is your lifestyle activity wise?

Workout like 3-4 times a week and a very mentally demanding job at the emergency psychiatric hospital. No fiber, no stress.

 

[Connor888]

As some of you might know, I've been eating lots of potatoes for a while and decided to try a starch free diet. The results have been great so far and I will continue to eat starch free for now.

You can read about my experiment here: My starch free and zero fiber experiment » MenElite

For those of you that have also done a starch free experiment, I'd love to hear your experiences as well.

how is it going so far?

i would love to know what you're doing for calories. i have enough trouble some days getting enough calories with both starch and fiber. Lol. If I could significantly reduce my fiber and starch in take I would. I will say that my digestion feels better without a doubt if I avoid both. I have bloating with occassional gas which i think is caused by either the fiber or starch. Might try it myself at some point

 

[lvysaur]

like DurianRider says you wanna have consensus and upvotes and act like an authority make sure you diss sugar first and foremost.

Just bash sugar and China, guaranteed upboats

 

[Velve921]

Would be great if @Velve921 could briefly share his opinion on starch free lifestyle (otherwise apologies for taging).

I stumbled onto his old post where athletic performance of a sport team improved on starch free diet! :O

I go zero starch with the exception of raw carrot. Whenever I’ve coached someone, they’ve only seen positive results when decreasing starch.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Yes in two meals. Not sure if I'll reduce the beef if I add in gelatin because I'm eating it for the zinc and other nutrients. Plus ground beef is also a good source of gelatin.

What do you believe is the max uptake of Amino Acids from one meal, and where does it start do be wasted majorily, catabolized to glucose or ammonia pathway? What is the lowest amounts of meals in your opinion to be mostly anabolic in a 16h eating window?

 

[Recoen]

@Hans have you noticed less glycogen production since being starch free? Are you doing anything to maximize production?

 

[Uselis]

I go zero starch with the exception of raw carrot. Whenever I’ve coached someone, they’ve only seen positive results when decreasing starch.

Thanks!

In the beginning of your "Peating" journey you've been pro potatoe. How long it took you to drop even that?

 

[Mito]

About 230g protein, 400g carbs and 135g fat.

How does that ratio compare to your regular diet (before zero starch/fiber)?

 

[Velve921]

Thanks!

In the beginning of your "Peating" journey you've been pro potatoe. How long it took you to drop even that?

After 1 year... as I want through rob turners course, popping the food bubble, I realized how poorly my body responded to potatoes as he teaches you how to really monitor the details.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Most of 2020 I've been strictly starch free which has been tremendously helpful for CFS like symptoms (extreme fatigue/post exercise malaise) and not getting sick 2-4x per month (basically chronic state of endotoxemia/cold and flu like symptoms/sore throat). Symptoms have been getting steadily worse for years now so finding something that actually helps this condition was great.

However the past month or so I switched to getting most of my carbs from white rice, some potatoes and small amounts of well-cooked legumes, trying out a low VA approach for improving my skin.

Well, it's been ******* awful.

Interestingly, first few days of eating starch I felt a burning sensation in my gut and heartburn/acid reflux, which brings my mind to the studies where cows get ruminal acidosis from eating too much grains LPS and starches. I have been pooping 1-2 x per day but I can literally feel the starch clogging up my colon and fermenting, setting off the whole endotoxin - serotonin - histamine - estrogen cascade.

ALL of my symptoms have come back in full force since reintroducing starch. I get sick as a dog all the time and I can't do anything except for lie in bed and feel sorry for myself. This is no way of living, if the "vitamin A detox" actually is a real thing and this will continue for months or years before things get better, surely I will kill myself before it's over. I thought dairy was the culprit for my acne but I still get random breakouts while eating 0 dairy and taking antibiotics, so who knows.

Cut out all things except for meat for a few days and things are improving as the colon bloat goes down. I don't like the idea of long-term carnivore, but if it allows me to be a functional human being (and have at least semi-decent skin) I'm all for it.

edit: Tried a cocktail of endotoxin/TLR4 blockers with high dose vitamin D (30 K), tetracycline, emodin, pregnenolone, aspirin... still doesn't help with the starch problems.

What's the reason you tried the Low VA approach? (oh wait, you said skin, nevermind that)

I did as well, and it was terrible. The first time I added liver back..... I felt better immediately.

I have Keratosis Pilaris, have since I was a kid. Didn't notice any improvement in that from low VA, and and felt legit awful. Honestly, I'd rather just deal with the bumpy skin.

Getting in the sun seemed to do a lot more beneficial things. As did taking high dose Vitamin A. And I felt good on High A.

 

[Uselis]

After 1 year... as I want through rob turners course, popping the food bubble, I realized how poorly my body responded to potatoes as he teaches you how to really monitor the details.

Thanks!

I am yet to find alternative satiety wise. High saturated fat makes me sluggish it seems.

 

[Korven]

What's the reason you tried the Low VA approach? (oh wait, you said skin, nevermind that)

I did as well, and it was terrible. The first time I added liver back..... I felt better immediately.

I have Keratosis Pilaris, have since I was a kid. Didn't notice any improvement in that from low VA, and and felt legit awful. Honestly, I'd rather just deal with the bumpy skin.

Getting in the sun seemed to do a lot more beneficial things. As did taking high dose Vitamin A. And I felt good on High A.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. How long were you doing low VA for?

Honestly I don't know what to make of the whole vitamin A poisoning theory... I have been way overdoing VA in the past and some of my symptoms line up with other people on Grants forum and here on RPF. But then again, you could probably correlate any symptom to hypervitaminosis A, and my issues could just be something entirely else.

Seems like some people get great results from VA detox, while others are going around in circles for months and years. Anyways I couldn't continue with the meat/rice/beans diet because I felt like death was nearing. I was inspired by @Blossom posts so I think I'll be doing a carnivore'ish diet still relatively low in VA.