My Starch Free And Zero Fiber Experiment

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Hans

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Any updates? Ive been doing lots of milk and Oj and need lots of baking soda in my oj or else i get hypotension. Do u feel like u get enough potassium since letting go of fruit juice? Also i added in mussels for manganese, do you have any concerns for certain micros u may be lacking? Thanks for ur contributions man
Still going strong. My potassium intake around 8000mg daily from all the milk which is more than enough. I get all my micros when I have the organ meat mix and milk, except perhaps manganese. But that's easy to remedy with mussels.
 

jet9

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I was starch free for a good while and just added white jasmine rice back in as a test. I was eating a lot of dates and started to find they were upsetting my digestion, there's a definite limit to them! Replaced them like for like with rice and noticed much cleaner digestion, no bloating so far. I always cook the rice in bone broth and have it with some stewed apple as I think the fructose in the apple helps avoid too big blood sugar spike from rice alone.
I read your thread on Mid-Victorian diet, wondered how it went and see that you are started to include some starches. (which is absolutely ok)
Why not potatoes though? As i understand they were big part of Mid-Victorian diet,. (in fact i was surprised that you didn't include the description list)
 

Sefton10

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I read your thread on Mid-Victorian diet, wondered how it went and see that you are started to include some starches. (which is absolutely ok)
Why not potatoes though? As i understand they were big part of Mid-Victorian diet,. (in fact i was surprised that you didn't include the description list)
I’ve been having some jasmine rice with breakfast/lunch then some new potatoes and well cooked veg (leeks, butternut squash, courgettes) with dinner as a soup. I feel good on no starch for maybe a week then satiety becomes an issue and things go downhill. Rice/potatoes seem to work well as long as I pair them with some OJ/stewed apple and some butter/tallow (as well as a protein source like eggs, meat, fish etc.), a key for me is balance and I feel off with too much fruit or starch. I think lower starch is infinitely more doable in the summer months when the sun is up vs. winter.

Recently I’ve been struggling with an ongoing sinus issue and vertigo/meniere’s, which I think is a legacy of shingles around 18 months ago which was what led me to Ray Peat in the first place. I’ve started supplementing lysine and monolaurin to try and nail what I suspect is a lingering viral issue. I’m also conscious of trying to keep serotonin/endotoxin down and well cooked rice seems to help with that compared to too much fruit - without dried fruits and dates I find it really difficult to get enough calories in before fibre becomes an issue, unless going overboard on fats, which then leads to another viscous cycle - so again balance seems key. I also suspect histamine in too much dried fruit was possibly giving me issues.

In short - still predominantly “Victorian”, but still problem solving and playing around with it!
 

Ania

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How do you manage to maintain a considerable level of calories by eating this way? without eating any starch.
With no problem. I am a tiny woman and eating this way I average around 2300 - 2500 kcal. For me that's more than enough. But for a big man it might be problematic. It would be possible by upping fruits and maybe a little fat.
I personally do not have much fat in my menu.
 

Cloudhands

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Yeah i do zero starch the past 2 weeks, i eat almost 2 pineapples a day and loads of meat and a few oranges. Pineapples are awesome i think they are better than oranges
 
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TheBeard

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Yeah i do zero starch the past 2 weeks, i eat almost 2 pineapples a day and loads of meat and a few oranges. Pineapples are awesome i think they are better than oranges

The fiber in fruits doesn't upset your digestion?
 

Cloudhands

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The fiber in fruits doesn't upset your digestion?
At first i was getting slight cramps, maybe for a day or two, but now my bowel movements and transit time are impeccable. Oranges have far more fiber than pineapple, and pineapple raise my body temperature much more than oranges as well. Pineapple maybe has 19g of fiber per 1.5 pineapples i eat within a day. I dont see an issue with fiber tho, i just think the right kind is important. I even add chicory to my coffee and it helps with my energy and digestion. And i eat semi green bananas as well and they seem to help. No fiber did give me good bowel movements, but the energy was too quickly absorbed and burned, i had to watch how quickly i drank my milk and juice so that it was more sustained thruout the day. Eating whole fruit doesnt give me such sharp blood glucose spikes. And i think the bromelain from all the piña is giving me beneficial effects. All i eat is beef, eggs, pineapple, banana, coffee with heavy cream and chicory, and a little tomato in my ground beef to make it better, and im having amazing poopies.
 

Cloudhands

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The fiber in fruits doesn't upset your digestion?
Oh! And i forgot to add i eat 4oz of romaine lettuce a day, along with some moringa supplement for more calcium. And i eat oysters and liver 2 times a week. It all works very well, aggressive energy with zen like calmness and log flume poopies.
 
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TheBeard

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At first i was getting slight cramps, maybe for a day or two, but now my bowel movements and transit time are impeccable. Oranges have far more fiber than pineapple, and pineapple raise my body temperature much more than oranges as well. Pineapple maybe has 19g of fiber per 1.5 pineapples i eat within a day. I dont see an issue with fiber tho, i just think the right kind is important. I even add chicory to my coffee and it helps with my energy and digestion. And i eat semi green bananas as well and they seem to help. No fiber did give me good bowel movements, but the energy was too quickly absorbed and burned, i had to watch how quickly i drank my milk and juice so that it was more sustained thruout the day. Eating whole fruit doesnt give me such sharp blood glucose spikes. And i think the bromelain from all the piña is giving me beneficial effects. All i eat is beef, eggs, pineapple, banana, coffee with heavy cream and chicory, and a little tomato in my ground beef to make it better, and im having amazing poopies.

So basically a no fiber diet + banana + pineapple. Nice
 

Cloudhands

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So basically a no fiber diet + banana + pineapple. Nice
Thats like saying "a no fiber diet + a bunch of fiber" i cant even say that its a no starch diet with the addition of the green banana. It is tho a frugivorous diet, being 51% or more fruit based. I like to model myself off of bonobos, they bang a bunch and live in an egalitarian matriarchy. Too bad i cant eat insects in a convenient manner at the moment, eggs will have to do for now.
 

GreekDemiGod

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I'm doing no starch again as I truly realized starch is bad for my digestion. Last week I ate a lot of potatoes. They almost blocked my bowel movements (so they gave me constipation) and made me super depressed, even lingering suicidal thoughts.
Now that I've dropped potatoes / starch, within 1 day, my bowel movements get better again. My mood improves too
I digest meat well, thankfully.
With milk / dairy, I'm still experimenting. I love some goat cheese and some aged hard quality cheeses.
I once tried drinking a lot of raw & full-fat milk back in the summer, it felt nourishing, but experienced increased acne on my back and face, so I figured the estrogen in it it's converting in my body. Or due to androgens / IGF-1 in milk.
 

Zigzag

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2 weeks of no starch and I have to say that it clearly works for me. There is one thing though. Has anyone noticed joint pain from starches? I have issues with my knees, particularly synovial membranes, which are overgrown and when they get inflamed it hurts. Yesterday I had a meal with pasta and a couple of hours later a burger. Knees apparently didn't like that. I will drop starches for another two weeks to check if there's no pain.
 

MidBicep

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2 weeks of no starch and I have to say that it clearly works for me. There is one thing though. Has anyone noticed joint pain from starches? I have issues with my knees, particularly synovial membranes, which are overgrown and when they get inflamed it hurts. Yesterday I had a meal with pasta and a couple of hours later a burger. Knees apparently didn't like that. I will drop starches for another two weeks to check if there's no pain.
I remember I've tried doing dips at the gym two - three years ago and I would always get shoulder pain a couple days later. Now that the gyms are closed I'm forced to do dips at the park and I get no pain. This is also with a milk - sugar - salt - coffee only diet (no meat because it gives me insomnia so possibly iron overload)
Just like the others previously said, potatoes were making me miserable.
Also its day 4 of basically milk and sugar diet and my BMs are getting better and better. I used to get diarrhea from drinking less than 2 litres of milk and now I'm at over 2.5 litres and they are almost becoming solid lol.
I'm noticing that even when my temps are low and I have no cravings I still have a good mood and I'm not stressed, which is quite interesting.
 

Vins7

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I remember I've tried doing dips at the gym two - three years ago and I would always get shoulder pain a couple days later. Now that the gyms are closed I'm forced to do dips at the park and I get no pain. This is also with a milk - sugar - salt - coffee only diet (no meat because it gives me insomnia so possibly iron overload)
Just like the others previously said, potatoes were making me miserable.
Also its day 4 of basically milk and sugar diet and my BMs are getting better and better. I used to get diarrhea from drinking less than 2 litres of milk and now I'm at over 2.5 litres and they are almost becoming solid lol.
I'm noticing that even when my temps are low and I have no cravings I still have a good mood and I'm not stressed, which is quite interesting.
But are you only consuming milk, fugar and coffe? How can you get enough calories only drinking 2,5 litres of milk as a main food?
What type of milk do you drink, ese or uht?
 

MidBicep

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But are you only consuming milk, fugar and coffe? How can you get enough calories only drinking 2,5 litres of milk as a main food?
What type of milk do you drink, ese or uht?
Pausterised, 1.5% fat. Not sure if it's UHT, it just lasts 1 month from what the date says on top.
I do 1:1 milk to sugar in terms of calories, otherwise I have problems digesting it. In a day it's around 2500 calories and I'm losing weight with no hunger so it's very good in that regard as well.
 

baccheion

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I'm doing no starch again as I truly realized starch is bad for my digestion. Last week I ate a lot of potatoes. They almost blocked my bowel movements (so they gave me constipation) and made me super depressed, even lingering suicidal thoughts.
Now that I've dropped potatoes / starch, within 1 day, my bowel movements get better again. My mood improves too
I digest meat well, thankfully.
With milk / dairy, I'm still experimenting. I love some goat cheese and some aged hard quality cheeses.
I once tried drinking a lot of raw & full-fat milk back in the summer, it felt nourishing, but experienced increased acne on my back and face, so I figured the estrogen in it it's converting in my body. Or due to androgens / IGF-1 in milk.
Did you precede with a 36-hour fast? Did you add vitamin B12, vitamin C (9 mg per cup), vitamin E, and vitamin K2? Were you consuming just milk, especially at a given meal?
 

Cloudhands

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Pausterised, 1.5% fat. Not sure if it's UHT, it just lasts 1 month from what the date says on top.
I do 1:1 milk to sugar in terms of calories, otherwise I have problems digesting it. In a day it's around 2500 calories and I'm losing weight with no hunger so it's very good in that regard as well.
Youre gonna run into micronutrient deficiencies without other foods
 

MidBicep

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Youre gonna run into micronutrient deficiencies without other foods
According to Ray the only thing a pure milk diet lacks is iron and I probably have lots of it stored in my liver. Many have done a pure milk diet in the past for therapeutic reasons. Thanks for your concern though.
 
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