My Skin Is Crumbling, Not Wrinkles. PFS Please Help, What Is This. Picture Added

[Bankai900]

I can take them down, and just call it a skinissue. It wasn't my face, it was on my whole body. And now it's normal again, but it took 5weeks for it to even start getting better. The wrinkles that are now there are there, I don't care about "wrinkles" as seperate. My whole skin was literally degrading, everywhere. It's just more visible where wrinkles appear, like hands, or the bending in the arms etc.. I got saggy skin between my arms and chest now for example. It's not noticeable for other people, but if it would kept going in such a tempo it soon would've been devastating. Now when I dent lightly into my hands the dent starts fading almost immediately. Within seconds there is a difference. For 5 weeks it wouldn't move, it would stay there for 2 hours and then slowly start fading.
After running for 20min my hands looked like a dalmatian on the inside, complete difference between white and red spaces. Looked like a freaking disease. Now it's all normal, or almost I think.

 

[Curiouskim]

I can take them down, and just call it a skinissue. It wasn't my face, it was on my whole body. And now it's normal again, but it took 5weeks for it to even start getting better. The wrinkles that are now there are there, I don't care about "wrinkles" as seperate. My whole skin was literally degrading, everywhere. It's just more visible where wrinkles appear, like hands, or the bending in the arms etc.. I got saggy skin between my arms and chest now for example. It's not noticeable for other people, but if it would kept going in such a tempo it soon would've been devastating. Now when I dent lightly into my hands the dent starts fading almost immediately. Within seconds there is a difference. For 5 weeks it wouldn't move, it would stay there for 2 hours and then slowly start fading.
After running for 20min my hands looked like a dalmatian on the inside, complete difference between white and red spaces. Looked like a freaking disease. Now it's all normal, or almost I think.

Could you explain what you did during those weeks and what you think helped to improve your skin please. I'm dealing with very similar issues at the moment. My health has been steadily improving but there was visible deterioration of my skin when I became more unwell several months ago, which still hasn't reversed (and might actually be getting worse).
Thanks.

 

[dannibo]

Even in the absence of radiation, a deficiency of vitamin E accelerates the spontaneous decomposition of the unsaturated fats, accelerating the aging of collagen (Sundholm and Visapää, 1978). Ray Peat

is that a paper or book? Thx

 

[Bankai900]

Could you explain what you did during those weeks and what you think helped to improve your skin please. I'm dealing with very similar issues at the moment. My health has been steadily improving but there was visible deterioration of my skin when I became more unwell several months ago, which still hasn't reversed (and might actually be getting worse).
Thanks.

I'm still far from recovered xd
Much blabla in the middle skip to the end if you want the steps^^

My skin is still getting worse when it comes to pure wrinkles/pores.
BUT
My skin varies now when it comes to the dents, when I drink alcohol, dont sleep much(by going to late+work, my sleep is very bad in addition anyway even if long) or stress, especially stress. Most of the time my bedsheets stick around for longer dependent on these ones. I had crazy strong heartbeat, but my pulse was normal or on the good side for over 5weeks. Now my heartbeat/race is lower after 5 weeks of focusing to not stress the body. Still way stronger than before, but no arythmia anymore.
I had a really bad experience 2weeks ago and it caused huge amounts of stress and my bedsheets to stick around again for 50min-1 hour. Yesterday I was out drinking a bit and slept for like 2-3hours only and bedsheets again for like 40 minutes. Most days they are gone tho now within 1-10minutes.

I'm doing a lot and a lots of unhealthy stuff, which I'm trying to fix now when my life is getting bit more.. "stable".
The first 4 weeks were very "clean", as no processed food. Daily a lot of juiced greens, way too many fruits, milk, clean fresh meat and huge amounts of salt with prob 10hours in bed.
Then a tragedy in my life happened and I went into being extremely overstressed in addition to PFS. I ended up eating 5-6k(and Im in shape) a day and at least 2k were not good foods, ice/cakes/bars etc. My hunger was absolute nuts. Which now resolved since 2-3 days, the habit to eat is still there, but this unstatisfactionary hunger is finally gone.
Bought some high quality natural products, like stuff with acerola, damascian rose hip and green tea's etc for the face, but I know myself it won't help so long my body won't get fixed. But it's just a desperate try to keep some places hydrated or "nourished"

so steps im doing in no particular order
1. betaine hcl + apple cider vinegar to meals / vitamin c from acerola before meals
2. gallbladder support with ox bile, pepsins etc.
3. got a hairtest, found out im almost toxic in copper and calcium, very low magnesium and some other stuff. So I centered my diet to take in less calciumrich foods, and more of foods with stuff I'm deficient in, like boron(raisins) or silica(green beans) etc.
4. doing the CDsnuts protocol, herb cycling, cold showers, skinbrushing, gym every 3-4days, daily at least 20min exercise, 2x meditation, lots of sun, swimming in the sea every 2nd day(supposed to help mineral balancing), 1x a week sauna
5. What helped my cravings was reading into DrWilsons SlowOxidizer(which I am acc. to hairtest) diet, started cooking now 500-1kg vegetables a day(3/4 frozen 1/4 fresh) and eating them with every single meal literally eradicated my cravings for sweets or absolutely anything. Protein in every meal, and reduced fats according to hairtest/Wilsons(still using grassfed butter but less). Went from eating 2k for dinner and being even more hungry to not feeling like to eat at all now.

I was out drinking yesterday and went into the kitchen at night to do freaking vegetables and somehow they taste like heaven now lol XD. Lots of spices, turmeric, onions, ginger, some kebabmixes to add taste, cayenne, paprica etc.
6. b vitamin complex in masses, precursors like benfotiamine etc./ + nutritional yeast
7. magnesium, lots since I am very deficient in it, and some electrolytes with potassium and magn citrate. I reduced strongly my intake of cruc. vegetables now, still doing beets and celery some kale/spinach but less etc. But Wilsons says dilluded or blended food just gets badly absorbed and messes with your gut, and I've def gutissues since the crash so I keep more now on the cooked side. Some cynk/selen/vitE.

I focus mostly on what Dr Berg says with some others on yt. Symptoms -> fix, not doing keto tho. But I'm pretty sure one of my worst things for my body was the absolute crazy amount of fruits. So I'm reducing these aswell. And fincrash fits all of the bodyprobs, kidney/liver/adrenal/cardiac/gut/bile/gallbladder problems aswell as mineral unbalances and high estrogen/shbg/cortisol(I know from bloods).

The water fast definitely helped my sleep, and the juicing I think let me come back nicely. The betaine is amazing for absorbing foodnutrients and stools.
All of that plays a big role probably. Feels like moving or sweating is great for a lot of these problems too, like promoting or forcing circulation.

 

[LUH 3417]

I'm still far from recovered xd
Much blabla in the middle skip to the end if you want the steps^^

My skin is still getting worse when it comes to pure wrinkles/pores.
BUT
My skin varies now when it comes to the dents, when I drink alcohol, dont sleep much(by going to late+work, my sleep is very bad in addition anyway even if long) or stress, especially stress. Most of the time my bedsheets stick around for longer dependent on these ones. I had crazy strong heartbeat, but my pulse was normal or on the good side for over 5weeks. Now my heartbeat/race is lower after 5 weeks of focusing to not stress the body. Still way stronger than before, but no arythmia anymore.
I had a really bad experience 2weeks ago and it caused huge amounts of stress and my bedsheets to stick around again for 50min-1 hour. Yesterday I was out drinking a bit and slept for like 2-3hours only and bedsheets again for like 40 minutes. Most days they are gone tho now within 1-10minutes.

I'm doing a lot and a lots of unhealthy stuff, which I'm trying to fix now when my life is getting bit more.. "stable".
The first 4 weeks were very "clean", as no processed food. Daily a lot of juiced greens, way too many fruits, milk, clean fresh meat and huge amounts of salt with prob 10hours in bed.
Then a tragedy in my life happened and I went into being extremely overstressed in addition to PFS. I ended up eating 5-6k(and Im in shape) a day and at least 2k were not good foods, ice/cakes/bars etc. My hunger was absolute nuts. Which now resolved since 2-3 days, the habit to eat is still there, but this unstatisfactionary hunger is finally gone.
Bought some high quality natural products, like stuff with acerola, damascian rose hip and green tea's etc for the face, but I know myself it won't help so long my body won't get fixed. But it's just a desperate try to keep some places hydrated or "nourished"

so steps im doing in no particular order
1. betaine hcl + apple cider vinegar to meals / vitamin c from acerola before meals
2. gallbladder support with ox bile, pepsins etc.
3. got a hairtest, found out im almost toxic in copper and calcium, very low magnesium and some other stuff. So I centered my diet to take in less calciumrich foods, and more of foods with stuff I'm deficient in, like boron(raisins) or silica(green beans) etc.
4. doing the CDsnuts protocol, herb cycling, cold showers, skinbrushing, gym every 3-4days, daily at least 20min exercise, 2x meditation, lots of sun, swimming in the sea every 2nd day(supposed to help mineral balancing), 1x a week sauna
5. What helped my cravings was reading into DrWilsons SlowOxidizer(which I am acc. to hairtest) diet, started cooking now 500-1kg vegetables a day(3/4 frozen 1/4 fresh) and eating them with every single meal literally eradicated my cravings for sweets or absolutely anything. Protein in every meal, and reduced fats according to hairtest/Wilsons(still using grassfed butter but less). Went from eating 2k for dinner and being even more hungry to not feeling like to eat at all now.

I was out drinking yesterday and went into the kitchen at night to do freaking vegetables and somehow they taste like heaven now lol XD. Lots of spices, turmeric, onions, ginger, some kebabmixes to add taste, cayenne, paprica etc.
6. b vitamin complex in masses, precursors like benfotiamine etc./ + nutritional yeast
7. magnesium, lots since I am very deficient in it, and some electrolytes with potassium and magn citrate. I reduced strongly my intake of cruc. vegetables now, still doing beets and celery some kale/spinach but less etc. But Wilsons says dilluded or blended food just gets badly absorbed and messes with your gut, and I've def gutissues since the crash so I keep more now on the cooked side. Some cynk/selen/vitE.

I focus mostly on what Dr Berg says with some others on yt. Symptoms -> fix, not doing keto tho. But I'm pretty sure one of my worst things for my body was the absolute crazy amount of fruits. So I'm reducing these aswell. And fincrash fits all of the bodyprobs, kidney/liver/adrenal/cardiac/gut/bile/gallbladder problems aswell as mineral unbalances and high estrogen/shbg/cortisol(I know from bloods).

The water fast definitely helped my sleep, and the juicing I think let me come back nicely. The betaine is amazing for absorbing foodnutrients and stools.
All of that plays a big role probably. Feels like moving or sweating is great for a lot of these problems too, like promoting or forcing circulation.

Interesting. When I was 24 I found dr Wilson’s website and followed his diet and supplement recommendations for 3 months over a summer, meaning no sugar no fruit, meats, sardines and all those cups of vegetables and blue corn chips. My skin aged the most it’s ever aged in that time period and I’ve never been able to reverse it.

 

[Bankai900]

Interesting. When I was 24 I found dr Wilson’s website and followed his diet and supplement recommendations for 3 months over a summer, meaning no sugar no fruit, meats, sardines and all those cups of vegetables and blue corn chips. My skin aged the most it’s ever aged in that time period and I’ve never been able to reverse it.

That is very interesting, and very sadly not so great to hear xD
I mean I don't know what it was, busted insulin resistance or what but I have always been someone who could eat a lot without too much weight gain (or I could gain and/or loose fast). And always a stresseater. But I was eating a minimum of 4k+ for almost 2 full weeks. I should've been stuffed over the moon and yet I felt like starving 24/7, and I just had no idea anymore what to do.
Now 3rd day of veggies I actually feel so stuffed that I don't even want to eat, but am just thinking a bit what to eat cuz I rarely didn't had such long breaks of food lol.
I'm not planning to cut out sugar completely, I especially don't wanna do Keto. But I definitely want to stop spiking my sugar so extensively every hour. And now I just feel soo "satisfied".

My skin got better NOT on the WilsonsDiet, it was high kcal high fruit high everything and a lot of ice/cake and shitfood, or maybe the month prior with the clean food. They say your skin represents your nutrition intake 3 months ago. But well it just fell apart rapidly, before Fin and even now my mind is like.. "how can u even notice skinchanges in 3 months LOL", but after experiencing this I see how rapid changes can take place.

I'm in a desperate place, because there's not too much "time" to try stuff out right, all I can do is what I think personally is the most "healthy" way for a body to function. After reading now for like 200h I'd love to stick to my highfruit intake, but I can't make much sense of it. Besides some of Dannys podcasts. But the whole world seems to be a bit in another realm when it comes to that.

I wrote it on hackstasis already, I was talking to a lot of friends with 1. full hair and 2. not much wrinkles(fin really makes one hyperaware) about their dietary choices, and I didn't find one yet who has like insulin issues or foodcravings. These people eat 2-3x a day and thats it, quite some stuff right upon waking up and then just go on with their day for 5-8hours, then dinner and MAYBE something smol in the evening but not neccessary. Where with the people I talked to who are 1. balding badly as me or 2. have full heads of hair, but really wrinkly/dry skin, all have the same patterns as me till now. Steady foodintake, living for food, able to eat literally most of the time or are spiking sugar often. It's just a small sample size of like 6 people total till now, but was really interesting to see.

 

[inurendotoxin]

I'm still far from recovered xd
Much blabla in the middle skip to the end if you want the steps^^

My skin is still getting worse when it comes to pure wrinkles/pores.
BUT
My skin varies now when it comes to the dents, when I drink alcohol, dont sleep much(by going to late+work, my sleep is very bad in addition anyway even if long) or stress, especially stress. Most of the time my bedsheets stick around for longer dependent on these ones. I had crazy strong heartbeat, but my pulse was normal or on the good side for over 5weeks. Now my heartbeat/race is lower after 5 weeks of focusing to not stress the body. Still way stronger than before, but no arythmia anymore.
I had a really bad experience 2weeks ago and it caused huge amounts of stress and my bedsheets to stick around again for 50min-1 hour. Yesterday I was out drinking a bit and slept for like 2-3hours only and bedsheets again for like 40 minutes. Most days they are gone tho now within 1-10minutes.

I'm doing a lot and a lots of unhealthy stuff, which I'm trying to fix now when my life is getting bit more.. "stable".
The first 4 weeks were very "clean", as no processed food. Daily a lot of juiced greens, way too many fruits, milk, clean fresh meat and huge amounts of salt with prob 10hours in bed.
Then a tragedy in my life happened and I went into being extremely overstressed in addition to PFS. I ended up eating 5-6k(and Im in shape) a day and at least 2k were not good foods, ice/cakes/bars etc. My hunger was absolute nuts. Which now resolved since 2-3 days, the habit to eat is still there, but this unstatisfactionary hunger is finally gone.
Bought some high quality natural products, like stuff with acerola, damascian rose hip and green tea's etc for the face, but I know myself it won't help so long my body won't get fixed. But it's just a desperate try to keep some places hydrated or "nourished"

so steps im doing in no particular order
1. betaine hcl + apple cider vinegar to meals / vitamin c from acerola before meals
2. gallbladder support with ox bile, pepsins etc.
3. got a hairtest, found out im almost toxic in copper and calcium, very low magnesium and some other stuff. So I centered my diet to take in less calciumrich foods, and more of foods with stuff I'm deficient in, like boron(raisins) or silica(green beans) etc.
4. doing the CDsnuts protocol, herb cycling, cold showers, skinbrushing, gym every 3-4days, daily at least 20min exercise, 2x meditation, lots of sun, swimming in the sea every 2nd day(supposed to help mineral balancing), 1x a week sauna
5. What helped my cravings was reading into DrWilsons SlowOxidizer(which I am acc. to hairtest) diet, started cooking now 500-1kg vegetables a day(3/4 frozen 1/4 fresh) and eating them with every single meal literally eradicated my cravings for sweets or absolutely anything. Protein in every meal, and reduced fats according to hairtest/Wilsons(still using grassfed butter but less). Went from eating 2k for dinner and being even more hungry to not feeling like to eat at all now.

I was out drinking yesterday and went into the kitchen at night to do freaking vegetables and somehow they taste like heaven now lol XD. Lots of spices, turmeric, onions, ginger, some kebabmixes to add taste, cayenne, paprica etc.
6. b vitamin complex in masses, precursors like benfotiamine etc./ + nutritional yeast
7. magnesium, lots since I am very deficient in it, and some electrolytes with potassium and magn citrate. I reduced strongly my intake of cruc. vegetables now, still doing beets and celery some kale/spinach but less etc. But Wilsons says dilluded or blended food just gets badly absorbed and messes with your gut, and I've def gutissues since the crash so I keep more now on the cooked side. Some cynk/selen/vitE.

I focus mostly on what Dr Berg says with some others on yt. Symptoms -> fix, not doing keto tho. But I'm pretty sure one of my worst things for my body was the absolute crazy amount of fruits. So I'm reducing these aswell. And fincrash fits all of the bodyprobs, kidney/liver/adrenal/cardiac/gut/bile/gallbladder problems aswell as mineral unbalances and high estrogen/shbg/cortisol(I know from bloods).

The water fast definitely helped my sleep, and the juicing I think let me come back nicely. The betaine is amazing for absorbing foodnutrients and stools.
All of that plays a big role probably. Feels like moving or sweating is great for a lot of these problems too, like promoting or forcing circulation.

A couple more thoughts, with my apologies for not getting around to answering your previous post before this.

You appear to be taking something of a "kitchen sink" approach (as Danny Roddy might call it), to both diet and supplements, which I think makes your situation something of a moving target, and difficult to isolate individual cause & effect.

Accepting my own bias, I think it's possible that some of this stuff might be escalating/exacerbating the situation.

To me, PFS felt a lot like being in a bubble. Sort of 'observing' the real world, but not being able to interact with it. I made the mistake of putting financial need before health for 8 years, such as our present 'system' appears to demand. PFS as part of a combo of simultaneous health issues was my reward.

I can only speak from subjective experience (of course), but the more I delve into a metabolic theory of health, the more I'm convinced that restoring metabolism is the answer to most (if not all) health problems. Baldness and spontaneous skin issues included. A simplified explanation would be the body has natural mechanisms for renewal and restoration, your only job is to fuel it sufficiently for the task (ideally with food, and good quality sleep).

The sugar 'spikes' are interesting, but important to note that fructose alone cannot stimulate an insulin response, so I'm skeptical that fruit could be a culprit.

If I had to bet on fundamentals here, I would say sleep debt and chronic exhaustion are manifesting as physical deficiencies. The body pulls resources from less essential organs/tissue to protect essential ones (eg, heart, brain) under stress.

In summary, proper rest, recovery and a change in environment (even if temporary) would be my strong recommendation, if such a situation could be engineered. I think at that point, specific dietary intake/macros, and even supplements become a lot less relevant. I wouldn't be holding to any kind of caloric restriction at this point. Listen to your body. Eat to feel full.
Maybe avoid PUFA is all...

Also do something fun with low exertion (movies or netflix or something). Something to distract you from this specific problem. I'm pretty sure cognitive overload is maladaptive.

Just some ideas.

 

[Bankai900]

@inurendotoxin

I totally agree with everything you said. I think that calming the mind/body + nutrition + sleep and having a positive attitude will handle A LOT of issues with time.
The problem here is as you know with PFS getting quality sleep is almost impossible, and I am guilty of the finalcial stuff putting to the front for the last days, aswell as friends and socializing over my health. Which is both bad, but now I got 4-5days chill and then again 2-3 stressful days. So I'm focused to rest as much as I can, and actively not stress during more 'stressy" peroids. Aswell as I got the 24/7 wired feeling so it's even easier to slip into bad habits of straining the body too much. And handling my work and friendships really helps me to be very relaxed now, I feel very happy when it comes to that stuff at the moment.
And I never ate much PUFAS. I see the hate for it here, but when it comes to my whole life I was barely exposed to it.

Still, I got for example crazy high calcium in my hairtest, it's more than double the "accepted" range. And if you read into too much calcium, 90% of the problems that appear in "non-pfs" people are almost identical to the stuff I had with "pfs". (like arythmia, 24/7wired feeling and insomnia, calcification, constipation etcetc.)
I try to treat pfs a bit more like a 1. mineral imbalance and 2. androgen receptor issue (well and bile/digestion prob) and the overall organ health of course.

It's not too much of "jumping around", since it seems that for most of that it's always the same answer. Reducing insulin and focusing on rest, not overstraining and not overeating, aswell as getting the right nutrients in and helping to absorb them with betaine or pepsins. Balancing out my vitamins/minerals with some supplementation and diet seems right for me.
I live in a (smaller)tourist place, stunning beautiful place, 200m from the beach^^

And I'm not saying fruit is bad, I'm just saying in my case it was overdone, I ate prob 300gr-1kg fruits daily for over 10 years. I've not much understanding in this since I didn't read too much into it, but fruit and fructose is still a form of sugar, which will in the end lead to insulin resistance and a fatty liver. Probably even more than table sugar from my knowledge in bigger amounts.
I'm just 2 days without "too much" sugar now and my cravings are completely gone, it just feels better. Will have to see how this keeps going, I will definitely keep eating fruit, but not 10h a day anymore xd. So ya I don't want to find out one thing that makes me feel better, I just try to do all what I think is healthy for a general body, and go with it so it can fixes itself. I didn't eat for the last 5hours and I'm mentally fighting to not go down and eat shittons just cause I've done it for so long now. But I'm so full, stuffed and statisfied that I've 0 appetite. Can't even remember going for over 2-3hours without feeling intense hunger. Really interested how this is gonna play out.

Yea and I'm trying to avoid all crazy stimulation, not even playing video games or anything that gets me crazy excited or nervous or tensing up.
Thank you for your advice!

 

[dreamcatcher]

is that a paper or book? Thx

I don't know, sorry