My Skin Is Crumbling, Not Wrinkles. PFS Please Help, What Is This. Picture Added

[Bankai900]

Hey guys, I had a PFS fullblown Crash 3-4weeks ago. I'm 29, never had skississues before.
Don't really want to get here into the sides. Mentally I'm very well, having still sleepissues and the errectionproblems.
Overall I feel great and trying to read prob for 5h how to beat it. I'm really trying, but my whole skin on my body is falling apart. It's extremely visible on my hands, and on my face it's getting worse by the day. I almost can't smile anymore because my eyewrinkles go over the cheeks up to my mouth. It looks like all my pores all over my body are getting eaten ;/
Doing a waterfast rn and going with the TMO protocol, but I'm pretty desperate for any help.

These fine lines under my eyes weren't there 2 months ago (I have pictures), I was taking a DHT blocker topically (plantbased) and 1 dose of fin 0,25mg which made me crash.
These lines appeared like 4-5 days before the crash.

Can someone maybe please tell me what this is? Is this a skin disorder?

 

[Tarmander]

Hard to see what you mean without a before

 

[Bankai900]

The wrinkles that go from my eyes, over my cheeks. My whole body is wrinklening up. It's not just my face, it's way worse on my hands and it's everywhere noticeable already.
But it's getting worse by the day. My hands look older than my dads now. I've had barely any wrinkles before, my skin is hydrated and I don't look tired. But my whole skin is becomming like a wrinkled sandpaper despite feeling smooth.
One is sth like 8months ago, the other is 2months ago.

 

[dannibo]

The wrinkles that go from my eyes, over my cheeks. My whole body is wrinklening up. It's not just my face, it's way worse on my hands and it's everywhere noticeable already.
But it's getting worse by the day. My hands look older than my dads now. I've had barely any wrinkles before, my skin is hydrated and I don't look tired. But my whole skin is becomming like a wrinkled sandpaper despite feeling smooth.
One is sth like 8months ago, the other is 2months ago.

It looks like you have a demodex infestation mate. They lay their eggs in your pores causing the enlarged pores and the wrinkles under your eyes. Your immune system doesn't seem to be up to scratch . Tea tree oil direct into the skin kill them and it would be therapeutic if you start taking Vitamin C in 1 gm doses maybe 4-5 a day. Borax in distilled water kills them as well and you can use it all day, a small spray bottle is good, just let it dry naturally and you need to apply it before you sleep. They come out in the dark to breed..yep on your face. Nearly everyone has them but when you get run down they can take over. Vitamin B3 (niacin) is good for skin and you can add some to the Borax water. Did you get any vaccines? As they destroy immunity.you might start taking borax orally and magnesium chloride. You need both as they're synergistic.

 

[Bankai900]

@contact
Omg finally something. Thank you a lot!!
Yea fin crashed my whole endocrine system, was in a full vegetable state for 2 days after taking it. After 4weeks now I feel like 80% better. Stuff seems to get better by the day, it's just hard to relax with the aging going on. Doing a water fast at the moment(day6), but well the aging is still going on. Seems to not be my face but overall. Will read into everything you recommended thanks a ton! And it's finally something that shows me what it could really be.

Do you think it's fixable with a extreme healthy diet and exercise? I slept extremely hollow for first 3 weeks, last 2 days where the first ones I felt tired and got (7h) sleep each!
Was completely wired/awake for 3 weeks, no tiredness and no feel of sleep/rest.

 

[ANDREW CHIN]

Hey guys, I had a PFS fullblown Crash 3-4weeks ago. I'm 29, never had skississues before.
Don't really want to get here into the sides. Mentally I'm very well, having still sleepissues and the errectionproblems.
Overall I feel great and trying to read prob for 5h how to beat it. I'm really trying, but my whole skin on my body is falling apart. It's extremely visible on my hands, and on my face it's getting worse by the day. I almost can't smile anymore because my eyewrinkles go over the cheeks up to my mouth. It looks like all my pores all over my body are getting eaten ;/
Doing a waterfast rn and going with the TMO protocol, but I'm pretty desperate for any help.

These fine lines under my eyes weren't there 2 months ago (I have pictures), I was taking a DHT blocker topically (plantbased) and 1 dose of fin 0,25mg which made me crash.
These lines appeared like 4-5 days before the crash.

Can someone maybe please tell me what this is? Is this a skin disorder?

You might want to look into chaga. You can buy the chaga pieces online and make a tea. Up to 8 cups per day. Good luck!
Mountain Rose Herbs

 

[dannibo]

@contact
Omg finally something. Thank you a lot!!
Yea fin crashed my whole endocrine system, was in a full vegetable state for 2 days after taking it. After 4weeks now I feel like 80% better. Stuff seems to get better by the day, it's just hard to relax with the aging going on. Doing a water fast at the moment(day6), but well the aging is still going on. Seems to not be my face but overall. Will read into everything you recommended thanks a ton! And it's finally something that shows me what it could really be.

Do you think it's fixable with a extreme healthy diet and exercise? I slept extremely hollow for first 3 weeks, last 2 days where the first ones I felt tired and got (7h) sleep each!
Was completely wired/awake for 3 weeks, no tiredness and no feel of sleep/rest.

It takes a while to get rid of them. They release a fungus when they die or are killed and it can cause inflammation. Taking oral sodium borate will kill the fungus that has escaped into your blood and it will also enhance your sex hormones ie regulate your testosterone. Look up www.earthclinic.com and www.doctoryourself.com if I was you I'd steer clear of all Pharma drugs..good luck.

 

[jyb]

Are you sure these weren't there before and you just hadn't spotted them? The fine lines near your eyes seem like standard wrinkles. Overall I don't see anything too unusual from the lines and pores for someone of 30 years old. It looks no more no less like common skin ageing. I do not know if it can be reversed. Although your pictures of "before" don't show them, you can't use those - it is clear that the resolution is not the same, there is a smooth filter and you don't see the details.

I have similar age and skin appearance and I know many in the same situation - as you age, pores and very fine wrinkles appear more and more. By 30, many people have pores and the skin isn't as clear and smooth as it was at 20.

It looks like you have a demodex infestation mate. They lay their eggs in your pores causing the enlarged pores and the wrinkles under your eyes. Your immune system doesn't seem to be up to scratch . Tea tree oil direct into the skin kill them and it would be therapeutic if you start taking Vitamin C in 1 gm doses maybe 4-5 a day. Borax in distilled water kills them as well and you can use it all day, a small spray bottle is good, just let it dry naturally and you need to apply it before you sleep. They come out in the dark to breed..yep on your face. Nearly everyone has them but when you get run down they can take over. Vitamin B3 (niacin) is good for skin and you can add some to the Borax water. Did you get any vaccines? As they destroy immunity.you might start taking borax orally and magnesium chloride. You need both as they're synergistic.

Demodex? I hadn't heard this condition, but pictures online don't look like this so I wonder why you say this. But please elaborate so we can understand where you are coming from.

 

[belcanto]

Hi Bankai900, welcome to the Forum.

There is a huge difference in your before and after photos. If you were losing your hair before, it could have been from Demodex mites as well; they would make it feel like grains of sand on your scalp. You could do several things for the scalp if this is the case - Head and Shoulders shampoo, believe it or not, the zinc in the shampoo is great for this (my hair doctor who prescribes my Armour thyroid recommends this). You could also put coconut oil (refined or virgin, doesn't matter!) on your scalp and rest of your body. The Oil Cleansing Method actually uses oil to clean off the face, and you could "wash" your face like this: Warm up some coconut oil in your hands and scrub your face with it, including the eyelids and eye area. Then put a clean washcloth under hot running water, wring out (ouch, that's hot!), and wipe your face until it's well wiped. Your face will feel clean afterward.

Some have mentioned tea tree oil, which works; neem oil also works. Unfortunately, both reek, especially the neem!

You could also make a clay mask using "Aztec healing clay" and mix in some charcoal (I just open capsules); I like to add in Manuka honey and wet the mixture with apple cider vinegar. It will fizz. Then spread it all over your face and leave it on until the clay cracks. Wash your face and your pores should look a lot better!

Another advantage to coconut oil is that it is antiviral, antimicrobial, and antibacterial, so I would recommend consuming it. Cook with it, use it in place of some butter (I actually made a great buttercream frosting using part coconut oil recently!), or even use is "transdermally" by rubbing it into your skin after you're still warm from the shower. It should melt in and not leave you all slick.

Best of health to you. Don't worry - you are young and your skin is elastic; I predict it will bounce back once all the things bothering it are dealt with.

 

[miki14]

Welcome,

and calm down and eat something!

Waterfast is super stressful, that alone can make you look 20 years older.

Finasterin is a castration drug and you worry about wrinkles? Topical beta blocker (saw palmetto I assume) isn't much better.

It looks like your problems started with taking dht blockers so the right approach would be to walk back the effects of finasterin.

You understand by now hopefully that dht is super protective especially for your skin, actually your skin is a major producer of dht. Dht doesn't cause balding or an enlarged prostate. Estrogen causes it and dht is an anti estrogen.

Reduce estrogen by cutting down seed oils/pufa, stop the boner pills/ nitrit oxid increases estrogen, try some pregnenolone. Eat enough sugar/fruits and protein to ramp up you steroid production. You might wanna try some dht.

 

[Bankai900]

I will try to answer to all of you.
Well, the mental issues someone can get from finasteride are indescribable, I was a fullblown vegetable for the first 3 days. Thank god most of my mental sides lifted within the first 14 weeks. After 13days I stopped getting out of breath and started feeling muscle soreness/pain again. Last 3 days I was finally able to achieve deep sleep again (not more than 3-5h, but I was unable to sleep and super wired for the last 3weeks.(Sleeping 7h or 30min, I couldn't feel the difference, instant awake). My system couldn't calm down. With daily meditation and relaxed work attitude it slowly is getting better.
And yes it is a castration drug, I went from masturbating up to 4x to 0 in the first 7 days.(Now abstaining to let the body heal). I could not only not feel my genitals but I had complete body anhedonia.
I still struggle with sexual sides, but I'm a firm beliver with a healthy lifestyle anything should be fixable, at least I'd like to cling to that hope.
These lines weren't there before, I am certain and I never had open pores or anything that bothered me with my skin in general. The only thing I ever had was dry skin like a year ago which lifted after 2-3months with a bit of collagenintake. But NEVER aging problems. Now my skin actually feels amazing, super hydrated and energized, just the wrinkles getting worse all over.

Of course after such an experience I stopped caring (for now) about my hair. My hairloss went into overdrive aswell, probably lost 1/5 of my hair within the last 2-3weeks. But you notice after losing so much, how unimportant stuff like this actually is. Priority is to get healthy, then worry about the rest.
I've spent probably 130h in the last month to find out how to properly beat this, it's a very complicated topic and sadly there aren't any who fought of skinaging to well with PFS. So I really want to be the first!
Thank you everyone of you for support! I'm reading it all and am happy to hear nice words. And I will try to apply as much as I can.
It's sadly not only a faceissue, it's on my whole body. My hands and everywhere where wrinkles can appear. As if my body is inhibiting collagenproduction or eating it up.

And yes I think the water fast isn't really good in this state. I was eating for first 3weeks very healthy, and yet it was getting worse. Read about Fin influencing really bad the microgutbiome so I did a fullbody cleanse now, and hoping with an extremely careful/healthy diet my body will be able to build itself up from scratch. (The whole journey feels like this).
Ah and btw. the pictures aren't with any filters, they're almost closeup with the same phone. Just zoomed in to keep at least a little privacy.

I'm staying away from hormones for now, the only thing that's somewhat androgen I ordered is "Pine Pollen". Otherwise I try to hit it all back up with exercise, IF-glutenfree paelo in addition to veggifruitjuices and big focus on sleep and reducing cortisol(or any stress). Will read deeply into the Ray-Peat diet aswell.

The waterfast helped tremendously with my remaining mental sides, today my eye floaters (which were nonexistent precrash, and extreme after crash which were getting worse by the week) seemed to be WAY less. My heartrace calmed down, my mood is great overall. Right shoulder pain disappeared, lower back pain gone. And mostly it helped my sleep!

Question to the coconut oil, I thought I've read somewhere that coconut oil has clogging properties and shouldn't be used too much? I'm ready to try all of your recommendation tho!

Thank you all for the kind help!

 

[dreamcatcher]

Are you sure these weren't there before and you just hadn't spotted them? The fine lines near your eyes seem like standard wrinkles. Overall I don't see anything too unusual from the lines and pores for someone of 30 years old. It looks no more no less like common skin ageing. I do not know if it can be reversed. Although your pictures of "before" don't show them, you can't use those - it is clear that the resolution is not the same, there is a smooth filter and you don't see the details.

I have similar age and skin appearance and I know many in the same situation - as you age, pores and very fine wrinkles appear more and more. By 30, many people have pores and the skin isn't as clear and smooth as it was at 20.



Demodex? I hadn't heard this condition, but pictures online don't look like this so I wonder why you say this. But please elaborate so we can understand where you are coming from.

Even in the absence of radiation, a deficiency of vitamin E accelerates the spontaneous decomposition of the unsaturated fats, accelerating the aging of collagen (Sundholm and Visapää, 1978). Ray Peat

 

[mujuro]

Am I missing something? I don’t see anything wrong with your skin. Stress is going to affect every aspect of your physiology. Your skin will bounce back. You look more mature/masculine now than you did in those before pics anyway.

 

[belcanto]

Hi Bankai900 - glad to hear you're on the mend. The actual Oil Cleansing Method uses castor oil plus others (usually polyunsaturated). I don't do the polyunsaturates. You can blend castor oil or jojoba oil with extra virgin olive oil or coconut oil. You could leave the hot moist washcloth on your face for 10 seconds before wiping off the oils.

For more information on getting off fin, I'd check Danny Roddy's videos on Youtube - go down to the videos section of this link: The Danny Roddy Weblog I discovered Ray Peat by reading Danny Roddy!

Best of health to you, Bankai900, you're on your way.

 

[Bankai900]

It's getting extremely worse by the day. I totally stopped looking now at myself. I really don't feel comfortable doing pictures of this.. and not really sharing. Just to keep myself out of this stressed state. As said if I smile it's WAY WORSE. Comparing to others while shopping I now look older than anyone who's under 60. I didn't expect to look like this ever in the foreseen future. If it keeps going idk.. looks like a freaking auto-immune disease, as if my body is killing my skin. Awful, trying to ignore it but god it's so hard, for now I am calm and avoiding all stress, but future me won't be able to handle this.
And yea I bingewatched Danny's videos, aswell as Dr. Bergs and Dr. Joshes.
And thanks I've added some Vit E foods.
Doing clean juice feast right now. Lots of kale/spinach/celery/beets, some fruits oranges/blueberries/watermelon etc. added some almonds to that for vite and b12 with almond milk.
Overall I feel great, it's just this skinissue going completely haywire. Doesn't seem like something from the outside is gonna be able to do anything ;/.
Will try to incorporate full anti-inflammatory diet..

 

[brix]

I would try high dose vitamin c along with collagen/gelatin. This combo should promote collagen formation in the skin.

My girlfriend took accutane and developed that thin skin look with deep wrinkles on her forehead, and since incorporating both vitamin c serum and collagen in her coffee, her skin looks healthy.

A few years ago, I took finasteride to halt my hair loss. It didn’t work and wound up with PFS almost immediately. I’ve tried many things to combat it but diet and time are the most crucial.

After I started healing, I’ve tried hormones and things like minerals/vitamins/supplements. Some have helped and some haven’t, but nothing has made me worse.

Good luck with your pursuit and if you have any questions feel free to DM.

 

[Bankai900]

@brix thank you a ton man I really needed to read something like this! I will fight this shiet with all I have man.
I will try the collagen one day.. but for now I'm a bit afraid since the only 2 people I found with skinissues had a very bad reaction to collagen ;/(God PFS is so awful).
Maybe I will try to dose it once a week or something like that first.
If you would even like to talk on skype "Bankai9000"(or anyone is welcome!) I'd be very grateful aswell for ANY tipps and advice.

 

[inurendotoxin]

A few thoughts on this, from an ex-PFS sufferer;

And yea I bingewatched Danny's videos, aswell as Dr. Bergs and Dr. Joshes.

Ignore Dr. Berg and Dr. Josh - they are phonies (and also not doctors). Danny is legit (Clue: doesn't to pretend to be a doctor).*

*Disclaimer: I am pro-Peat and pro-Roddy. So responses are unapologetically biased.

Doing clean juice feast right now. Lots of kale/spinach/celery/beets, some fruits oranges/blueberries/watermelon etc. added some almonds to that for vite and b12 with almond milk

A juice fast is probably much better than a water fast. Your whole body will benefit from the fructose. Just a suspicion, but I would speculate that the skin reaction might in fact just be an under-nourishment thing, and will sort itself out when the energy source is restored (ie. sugar!).

Also, body and mind = inseparable. I personally find I'm more liable to overreact when I'm already under some stress. Your original post seems like a massive stress response, probably exacerbated by an extended water fast (which is kind of trippy and isolating in itself) and several days running on stress hormones.

Aside: Niacinimide (Nicotinamide) is apparently great for skin. Nicotinamide Riboside health benefits overview | TimelessLife Collagen too. (Dammit. Cant find the collagen link)

The waterfast helped tremendously with my remaining mental sides, today my eye floaters (which were nonexistent precrash, and extreme after crash which were getting worse by the week) seemed to be WAY less. My heartrace calmed down, my mood is great overall. Right shoulder pain disappeared, lower back pain gone. And mostly it helped my sleep!

I think extended fasting can *feel* medatitive, and even energising, but is metabolically very stressful. Your whole system slows down into hibernation/energy conservation mode, and maintains energy by ramping up production of adrenaline and cortisol (stress hormones) to compensate for the shortage of fuel. Running on adrenaline feels great for a while, but you crash hard.

I only do occasional cheat-fasting these days, usually in 24 hour bursts. I allow myself bone broth, tomatoes and sea salt ad liberatum.

I'm staying away from hormones for now, the only thing that's somewhat androgen I ordered is "Pine Pollen".

The ironic thing about Finasteride is that it works by altering the hormones. That's kind of all a drug is. My personal view on these substances (after discovering Peat) is that the stigma comes from the labels assigned to them. Drug = bad. Vitamin = good. Saturated = bad. Unsaturated = "healthy".

It turns out, caffeine is functionally a Vitamin, Vitamin D is functionally a steroid, and "healthy" fats f*** everything up and accelerate aging and degenerative brain disease. (Other interpretations are available).

Ultimately these are all just chemicals sourced from our natural habitat, and they enact some kind of effect on the organism. The categories and labels are arbitrarily assigned.

The primary benefit/function of Fin is that it raises progesterone, which it turns out is great for hair, but also increases estrogen synthesis over time (hence the libido sides). Just taking Progesterone is probably way safer than Fin, and something like 6-ketoprogestene may be the best of both worlds, without the worst of it. See also: 6-keto P4 - Liquid 6-ketoprogesterone For Lab/R&D

Anyway yes, PFS is totally reversible. Brain fog, libido (& I would also wager, skin) issues included. I wish you a speedy recovery.

 

[Bankai900]

@inurendotoxin

Thank you for the lengthy response Inuren. Yea I agree with a lot that you've said. Sadly my diet precrash was mostly what Danny advises. And was exactly as Danny advises right after the crash(just without the t3 supplementation). And maybe that's one of the reasons I've recovered so "fast". Because most of my sides, mostly all mental ones were gone within 3 weeks. I still have some but they aren't that bothersome. Like headache which "accumulates" during the day and only gets cleaned via sleep or eye floaters(sometimes really strong..). But those are manageable, I've more energy than precrash (prob high cortisol 24/7) but for real life application this is more positive than negative.
I can't lie tho that I absolutely love Dr. Bergs stuff. I don't care if he's a doctor or not, I've spent probably 300h reading in 6 weeks about nutrition. And probably 10 years in total but not that deep. I still am very far away from understanding microproccesses like people on hackstasis, and I'm not that interested into that (it's too difficult for me). What I mean is I see that people without paper can have/share knowledge.
I got a master degree as one of the best of the year and know jackshit about all of it by now. Not even the basics probably lol.

But the update I didn't give here is that for like 5 days now my skin started "working" again. As said this wasn't a faceissue, I had this all over my body. It looked as if my body was literally killing my own skindeposits. I could wake up from my bed and 1 full hour later I still looked like struck by a thunderbolt completely covered in bedsheetmarkers on my whole body(now I'm actually sad I didn't took a pic of that xD). I could dent into my hand and it would stay for 2 hours without change. Like 6 days ago suddenly that was 1h, and 5 days ago till now it's back to normal. Dents stay for 30sec-5min maximum. So this gives me a lot of hope and I stopped worrying about my skin. Funny thing is the "dents" would stay for 2 hours, but the "pinch" test which they show on the internet on the upper hand was "good". Like said my skin felt the whole time very hydrated, but was just dying inside every cell.

I think it was/is a malnourishment issue too, I've added now high quality B vitamins for Mitochondrial support and will throw them in for 1 full week. Maybe till my pee gets more yellowish. It was completely white, like 99% even in the mornings for 5weeks. I had a lot of digestion issues (never had ANY precrash).
Precrash I would be able to happily eat a family pizza at 2am and would be asleep at 2 20. Now I have to eat 3-4hours before bed cuz it all just lingers in my stomach. So the theories about fin altering the microbiome seem to be on point.
Added now Betaine HCL and some good Gallbladder support and they both did a HUGE difference when it comes to food(and stools).

Started rotating herbs now and they seem to do their jobs a bit. Don't know what it is, but with most of them my sleep is way more restful.
Now when it comes to "normal" illnesses most of my problems seem alike to 1. Insulin resistance, 2. Low Bile or weak liver, 3. High cortisol/Adrenal Fatigue/LowThyroid, 4. Maybe Iron OR copper toxicity. (Can anyone tell me how Kale and Copper do? I see it's crazy high in copper maybe I should lower my KaleIntake).

My biggest concern for now, since my skin works are now the sexual ones. I can get like a 80% errection but it takes time. I got slight bending and rotation on axis going on with some penile pain (def not peyronies., but maybe plaque?) which scares me the most.

I can post my bloodtests but as with PFS people they don't really give much information.
Got High cortisol, high estrogen, high shbg and due to that semilow free test. My dht is way higher then precrash(but in better range lol) now, read it's due to low receptors and the body pushing out more hormones to compensate.
Funny is that most of those are fixable, but not that easy since if all are elevated it creates a vicious cycle of one pushing up the other and letting the body not calm down.

So I'll probably try to add some K2(I get a lot of VitD via sunexposure) and maybe Choline to methylate if my estrogen won't drop with diet.
Seems to be honest that for every single one of those issues IF 16/8 and lowinsulin diet seems to be the key when it comes to the natural healthapproach. So I might go off that Danny diet and focus on giving my body more breaks, and I was always a 24/7 eater (cuz I didnt gain too much fat and got muscles easy). So I never cared and ate all the damn time, and mostly fruits all day long which now I see did quite some liverdamage possibly combined with a overall not really great lifestyle.

And with staying away from hormones I ment more like.. one dose of fin got me into this mess. And I had a good body and never was thinking about roids, never about aging or anything like that. So now I'm more in the approach to just go with diets and supplement only with what I really think is neccessary to guide the body into the right direction. Still thinking about T3 but for now I'm against it. Let the foods/exercise/sleep regulate my hormones haha. I hope at least xD

 

[Peater]

The wrinkles that go from my eyes, over my cheeks. My whole body is wrinklening up. It's not just my face, it's way worse on my hands and it's everywhere noticeable already.
But it's getting worse by the day. My hands look older than my dads now. I've had barely any wrinkles before, my skin is hydrated and I don't look tired. But my whole skin is becomming like a wrinkled sandpaper despite feeling smooth.
One is sth like 8months ago, the other is 2months ago.

Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples? The before photos look very filtered as I believe the current term is. I never see skin that smooth in real life, on anyone. Understand your concerns but if you're comparing a 'real' photo to those, you will just stress more.