My Rant

[Constatine]

Context is everything. Many things that are considered beneficial here are only beneficial if certain requirements are met and can be harmful under other circumstance. Can you give us more information. Your exact diet, your lifestyle, etc. Almost any supplement if taken long enough can yield problems. I would first recommend dropping all supplements. Thyroid can be stimulated naturally with sunlight exposure.

 

[Wagner83]

If I was you here is what I would try : drop the milk and dairy, eat some wacky potatoes, perhaps white rice or pasta , a bit of meat , low fat fish, shrimps and oysters, maybe eggs, ripe fruits and small amounts of fresh pressed OJ / filtered apple juice, liver, a bit of well prepared mushrooms could help, add some butter or CO and see how you fare. As JamesIV said your diet is obviously way off.
Strongbad joined the other Ray Peat forum, and he is finally improving on a simple diet , you can see his threads here he was in pretty bad health despite trying all the standards Peat/Peat forum recommendations.

 

[Waynish]

Go off of everything except food and go to the best local TCM doctor... I'd be surprised if you didn't report back with significantly positive results after just 1 week.

 

[postman]

That would be very in-line with hypothyroidism. Once you get your temperature and pulse in check, then you can reevaluate. Maybe you could try mirtazapine or another strong anti-serotonin drug that stimulates appetite; I've found it helpful for cognition. I'm not sure you want to go down the antidepressant rabbit trail, but it sounds like an alternative to your suffering for the time being.

Mirtazapine is not an anti-serotonin drug. It increases extracellular serotonin and it works as an agonist on certain serotonin receptors.

 

[Wagner83]

Go off of everything except food and go to the best local TCM doctor... I'd be surprised if you didn't report back with significantly positive results after just 1 week.

It would be interesting to hear about your experience if you have not shared it yet.

 

[lollipop]

Your post really makes me feel for you man. Ive been where you are, and I cant imagine staying there as long as you apparently have. I remember your desperate posts years ago when you could barely get out of bed.

This may ruffle some feathers, but maybe you should forget about trying to do a "Peat," diet, whatever that means to you. He is only human, not omniscient. His reccomemdations may not be right for you.

Speaking only for myself; I do think Ray is incredibly smart, and kind, and I have incorperated many of his ideas into my own approach. However, I will say that many of the most powerfully healing parts of my own diet and lifestyle would definitly be considered not "peaty," at least in the way most people interpret his recommendations.
In fact much of it is likely the opposite of what peat folks consider healthy. I tried to do the Peat diet as I believe most folks would define it, and it allowed me to become incredibly sick, sicker than I've ever been. Im in contact with a few members that have been banned from this forum, and coincedently, they have come to many of the same conclusion as I have, eat in similar fashion to myself, and are doing very well, even thriving. Not to say I know the answers to your health. Maybe we have stayed in communication, simply because we share similiar ideas. I don't know.

I can tell you that I have been at this health thing for over a decade, reading, experimenting, learning, and working with others. I have taken information from many sources and many self experiments over the years and come up with my own healthy "diet." I have also recognized that there is a LOT of variability in what seems to "work," for people. I do think there is a basic formula, but application and recognizing nuance is extremely important. And a person must be able to self analyze. I have never had success helping anyone that just wanted to be told what to do.

It is extremely hard to do, but you must use intuition and feedback, rather than preconceived notions as to what you "know" is healthy. Working with a professional can help, but I don't believe it is imperative.

I can tell you that if you are as unhealthy as you state, you are not eating healthy for you body. That sounds obvious, but I see so many people continue to believe that a diet that continuously makes them sick is all of a sudden going to make them healthy.

I really really hope you can find your health, no matter how you do it.

Beautiful post @James IV

 

[milk_lover]

Have you tried organic UHT milk? My family members seem to tolerate it better any other milk..

 

[schultz]

Have you ever tried anti-biotics? Just curious...

I realize you said you did in the initial post after I re-read it. I even double checked to make sure before I asked! Now I realize why you didnt respond to me lol.

 

[James IV]

Beautiful post @James IV

Thank you Lisa.

 

[DaveFoster]

Mirtazapine is not an anti-serotonin drug. It increases extracellular serotonin and it works as an agonist on certain serotonin receptors.

While it is true that mirtazapine agonizes 5-HT1A, it can be used to treat serotonin syndrome, and the studies I've seen demonstrate only an increase in serotonin in certain parts of the brain.

 

[Constatine]

What is your sodium intake? I always have similar symptoms to you when my sodium intake drops and the weather gets hot resulting in a loss of sodium.

 

[iLoveSugar]

Sorry for the lack of reply. It's just rough for me. My sodium intake is little if any. My body just never wants it.

I also agree with venturing off of Peat. But I have tried, and for a long while. Most foods give me stomach pain, bleeding, etc. I had 9 colonscopies by the time I was 30. It's pathetic.

 

[Luann]

Have you tried B vitamins? In a natural form, not supplements, which I don't think work very well. Thiamine and folate in pretty high doses.

 

[Lucenzo01]

I never understood the grain-phobia of Peatarians. I was like you, nothing worked until I tried niacin megadoses and the rest of the protocol. Good luck.

 

[Tarmander]

big change....BIG CHANGE....BIG MENTAL CHANGE. Move somewhere else!

 

[Jack Roe]

Sorry for the lack of reply. It's just rough for me. My sodium intake is little if any. My body just never wants it.

I also agree with venturing off of Peat. But I have tried, and for a long while. Most foods give me stomach pain, bleeding, etc. I had 9 colonscopies by the time I was 30. It's pathetic.

Sounds like your body cannot produce enough, strong enough tissue.
Guidance for Industry: A Food Labeling Guide (14. Appendix F: Calculate the Percent Daily Value for the Appropriate Nutrients) is the list of Daily Values. Nowadays if you have a smart phone, I think you can probably get an app and program it to check whether you hit 100% DV of all of those nutrients.

If you have been on any sort of "all milk" or restricted diet for a long period of time, you are going to have mineral deficiencies. Lots of "whacky diets" can work adequately for a period of time if someone has adequate mineral nutrition; if not, a whacky diet just isn't going to work.

Here is something to think about:

"A 6-month-old full-term infant had severe anemia and neutropenia. The patient was being fed cow's milk and a diet of corn flour. Thorough investigation revealed low serum iron concentration, severe hypocupremia, low ceruloplasmin, retardation of bone age, and metaphysial irregularities and spurring. Bone marrow aspirate revealed cytoplasmic vacuolization in precursors of the erythroid and myeloid series and ringed sideroblasts. Therapy with oral iron, folic acid, and vitamin C was futile. Administration of copper sulfate resulted in brisk increase in neutrophils and reticulocytes. The child maintained normal levels of hemoglobin, neutrophils, serum copper and ceruloplasmin, and serum iron one year after copper therapy was discontinue"
Copper deficiency with cow's milk diet. - PubMed - NCBI

Without copper, your body cannot produce various proteins required to maintain structure---there are several case reports in the literature of copper deficiency brought about by low intake or by high zinc intake, or by gastric bypass surgeries, etc. Like most mineral deficiencies in the "first world" it is probably more common than thought to be; lots of docs won't test for these things because if you have a patient eating a ridiculous diet, indulging his fantasy about "mineral deficiencies" is not actually going to correct his eating an "orthorexic" (but not actually ortho) diet. And in the literature, some people with copper deficit, it can take a decent bit to get copper status back up to normal. Gray hair, that is another thing with some suggestion it's caused by copper deficiency, along with other minerals.

"Sugar, salt, thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, methylene blue have not helped cognitive function the slightest."

Nobody reasonable would ever expect these things to help your "cognitive function." Thyroid, maybe, but in the context of serious malnutrition, adding thyroid is simply going to make you "burn hotter"---a fire with less fuel burning hotter burns out quicker, right? Three years is a _long time_ to keep up with a Guru. Gurus are fine, if you benefit from them, but if after three years with a Guru, you are not seeing any benefit, it may be time to ditch the Guru. No need to make it personal, maybe he just wasn't for you. But I suspect that if your Guru had told you for three years to take amphetamine (if such were legal), you probably would have done better. Amphetamine is a far better stimulant than thyroid, and it doesn't screw up the endogenous thyroid metabolism. Have you had any TSH or other thyroid bloodwork indicating that you need thyroid?

The poster who recommended that you get a full blood chemistry/blood count is correct. If you have low platelets, that's another index for possible low copper intake. If you can get ferritin measured too, that can be helpful, just because anemia is one of those things that can happen, tho far less often in males. But if you have serious bleeding from your piles, who knows. If you have insurance, these tests should be covered, one would hope, if you present with fatigue and if you are honest with your doctor about having developed a fixation with an internet "guru" who advises people eat a hyper-restricted diet. Bad teeth indicates mineral deficiency of some sort.

Also, those DV values are for a 2000 calorie diet; so figure out how many calories you should eat, and divide yourCalories/2000 and multiply those DV values by the number of calories you should eat. You can, as I said, use an app or a spreadsheet to make sure you get the DV.

"My sodium intake is little if any. My body just never wants it."

wtf does this even mean? You need a certain amount of salt every day, this is just common sense. But, again, it's not about taking larger than normal amounts of any one nutrient or hormone or substance (except amphetamine...mmm, amphetamine) to "feel better."

Did you ever have a period of good health, or were you raised by lower-middle white trash people with poor eating habits?

 

[Regina]

Sounds like your body cannot produce enough, strong enough tissue.
Guidance for Industry: A Food Labeling Guide (14. Appendix F: Calculate the Percent Daily Value for the Appropriate Nutrients) is the list of Daily Values. Nowadays if you have a smart phone, I think you can probably get an app and program it to check whether you hit 100% DV of all of those nutrients.

If you have been on any sort of "all milk" or restricted diet for a long period of time, you are going to have mineral deficiencies. Lots of "whacky diets" can work adequately for a period of time if someone has adequate mineral nutrition; if not, a whacky diet just isn't going to work.

Here is something to think about:

"A 6-month-old full-term infant had severe anemia and neutropenia. The patient was being fed cow's milk and a diet of corn flour. Thorough investigation revealed low serum iron concentration, severe hypocupremia, low ceruloplasmin, retardation of bone age, and metaphysial irregularities and spurring. Bone marrow aspirate revealed cytoplasmic vacuolization in precursors of the erythroid and myeloid series and ringed sideroblasts. Therapy with oral iron, folic acid, and vitamin C was futile. Administration of copper sulfate resulted in brisk increase in neutrophils and reticulocytes. The child maintained normal levels of hemoglobin, neutrophils, serum copper and ceruloplasmin, and serum iron one year after copper therapy was discontinue"
Copper deficiency with cow's milk diet. - PubMed - NCBI

Without copper, your body cannot produce various proteins required to maintain structure---there are several case reports in the literature of copper deficiency brought about by low intake or by high zinc intake, or by gastric bypass surgeries, etc. Like most mineral deficiencies in the "first world" it is probably more common than thought to be; lots of docs won't test for these things because if you have a patient eating a ridiculous diet, indulging his fantasy about "mineral deficiencies" is not actually going to correct his eating an "orthorexic" (but not actually ortho) diet. And in the literature, some people with copper deficit, it can take a decent bit to get copper status back up to normal. Gray hair, that is another thing with some suggestion it's caused by copper deficiency, along with other minerals.

"Sugar, salt, thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, methylene blue have not helped cognitive function the slightest."

Nobody reasonable would ever expect these things to help your "cognitive function." Thyroid, maybe, but in the context of serious malnutrition, adding thyroid is simply going to make you "burn hotter"---a fire with less fuel burning hotter burns out quicker, right? Three years is a _long time_ to keep up with a Guru. Gurus are fine, if you benefit from them, but if after three years with a Guru, you are not seeing any benefit, it may be time to ditch the Guru. No need to make it personal, maybe he just wasn't for you. But I suspect that if your Guru had told you for three years to take amphetamine (if such were legal), you probably would have done better. Amphetamine is a far better stimulant than thyroid, and it doesn't screw up the endogenous thyroid metabolism. Have you had any TSH or other thyroid bloodwork indicating that you need thyroid?

The poster who recommended that you get a full blood chemistry/blood count is correct. If you have low platelets, that's another index for possible low copper intake. If you can get ferritin measured too, that can be helpful, just because anemia is one of those things that can happen, tho far less often in males. But if you have serious bleeding from your piles, who knows. If you have insurance, these tests should be covered, one would hope, if you present with fatigue and if you are honest with your doctor about having developed a fixation with an internet "guru" who advises people eat a hyper-restricted diet. Bad teeth indicates mineral deficiency of some sort.

Also, those DV values are for a 2000 calorie diet; so figure out how many calories you should eat, and divide yourCalories/2000 and multiply those DV values by the number of calories you should eat. You can, as I said, use an app or a spreadsheet to make sure you get the DV.

"My sodium intake is little if any. My body just never wants it."

wtf does this even mean? You need a certain amount of salt every day, this is just common sense. But, again, it's not about taking larger than normal amounts of any one nutrient or hormone or substance (except amphetamine...mmm, amphetamine) to "feel better."

Did you ever have a period of good health, or were you raised by lower-middle white trash people with poor eating habits?

Hi Jack, Do you have an insight into what an ideal ceruloplasmin level would be? thx

 

[Constatine]

Sorry for the lack of reply. It's just rough for me. My sodium intake is little if any. My body just never wants it.

I also agree with venturing off of Peat. But I have tried, and for a long while. Most foods give me stomach pain, bleeding, etc. I had 9 colonscopies by the time I was 30. It's pathetic.

I would just try a high sodium intake for a week and see if your symptoms improve. Eating more sodium increases ones desire for sodium. If your sodium levels are low you do not crave sodium, this is another sign you are low.

 

[BingDing]

I would take Peat's advice and address thyroid. It is not a stimulant, it is the control signal that turns the whole system on. Without adequate thyroid cellular metabolism fails and curing any disease or fixing symptoms is pretty much impossible. Put any questions about supplementing thyroid aside, don't worry about whether your own thyroid gland will ever be able to supply enough, and don't fear going into an excessive hyperthyroid condition (but keep a jar of sauerkraut on hand in case you do). Topically applied T3 might be a good approach, like haidut's Tyronene. Two drops at a time six times a day is close to physiological, maybe start with one drop twice a day and build up to it. Remember that it is possible for a lot less T3 than you take to ever make it into the cells where it is needed.

Forum member Jenn lived on potatoes (and maybe coconut oil) for months until she got better. I can't think of a single food to suggest that is any better than what Peat advises. With increased thyroid there will be a need for increased nutrition so put aside any questions about supplementing vitamins and minerals, too. They work the same no matter where they come from.

Good luck, and don't give up!

 

[wintagal]

Thyroid plus cortisol (cortef and prednisone, low dose) have given me my life back. Without the cortisol, thyroid made me sicker than I was without it. It was the end of life as I knew it. I remember it was the worst year of my life. I tried T4, T3, Armour, all kinds of combinations, and had a frozen shoulder, stomach problems, repeated infections (including nonstop herpes which by the way zinc helps suppress), swollen face, zero energy, and more that I've forgotten.
Getting cortisol plus thyroid was the key. All the endocrinology textbooks tell you that. When you start thyroid supplementation, it demands more cortisol. If you are short on cortisol, adrenaline kicks in, hence the anxiety.
Alcohol raises cortisol. But then you pay the next day.
Bags under your eyes, constipation, low temps - classic hypothyroid symptoms. But you may need to add the cortisol. You can order prednisone 5mg from mexico and see if it helps. Try up to 10 mg prednisone per day, no more. A week won't hurt you and it will help you find out.
You will have to go prednisone for a week to do a saliva test for cortisol levels. The saliva test is good, the blood tests aren't useful unless you're in the hospital nearly dead, because the lab ranges are too wide.
I still struggle to get thyroid to work for me. I have high reverse T3, but nonetheless I feel better than I have in 20 years. Don't give up. Read what Dr H Lindner's website (HormoneRestoration) says about thyroid and cortisol.

I'm not expecting many replies as I know people here have pretty much exhausted all options trying to help me. I'm sorry, just feel like ranting.


I don't understand how I have done everything pro metabolic for the last 3 years and have gotten way worse. It isn't even like I just halted progression, or got a little better. I've gotten dramatically worse and life absolutely sucks. I'm so miserable.
Nothing has helped my gut, even the slightest. Cyprophetadine, antibiotics, cascara, aspirin, charcoal, laxatives, enemas. None of them done absolutely anything for me.

Sugar, salt, thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, methylene blue have not helped cognitive function the slightest.

An all milk diet, years of no grains, fillers, gums, etc have only made me feel worse.

I am so nervous, I'm constantly tense. It's severe to, not just a minor nuisance. Life is a race right now and I can never just be relaxed. The closest I get to bring relaxed is having a few drinks. But that only aggravates me the next day and explodes herpes outbreaks.

I'm so exhausted, my temple is constantly fluttering, I can't enjoy my kids or do things with then because of how miserable I am. I can't even focus or do school events. I can't have a female in my life because the herpes out breaks are now with my every single day and never come close to disappearing. I used to get 1 outbreak a year if at all. Now I have one active 365 days a year. I constantly bleed from hemmorhoids regardless of laxative use. I'm always bloated. I'm always dry. I'm 32 and half my hair is gray. I keep it cut almost bald because it's so scarce and balding and unattractive. I have bad roseca, bad teeth, and severe bags under my eyes that never go away. 6, 8, 10, 12 hours of sleep feels like 0.

I'm just a mess. Its so hard to live life like this, under constant nervousness and dizziness, and feeling like at any second my legs are going to give out and faint.