My Methylation Findings

[kineticz]

I think we are arguing the same point except you haven't either been through it or assimilated my testimonial very well.

I effectively de-ironed my liver and now I'm only taking iron as long as I take the co factors for ceruloplasmin and restore bone marrow with calcium.

 

[whodathunkit]

@kineticz: any recs on dosage and timing of l-serine? Does it tend to cause wakefulness or sedation? I"m finding some various recs on dosage and nothing on when to take it. I haven't looked too hard but have been a little busy today so thought I'd ask in case you were around and can answer. Thanks!

 

[Such_Saturation]

No I verified it myself with a very expensive blood test.

called?

 

[tankasnowgod]

I think we are arguing the same point except you haven't either been through it or assimilated my testimonial very well.

I agree with this statement.

I'm very interested in hemochormatosis in general, as I had very high ferritin myself, which I lowered mainly through phlebotomy. I think high iron (even in the high normal range) can cause so many problems, while for most people who have it, the treatment is simple (basically blood donation), low cost, and very low risk. And I think it sucks that doctors ignore it (or don't even know about it), and the general public doesn't know much about it, either. I did read your testimonial here, though I did not go through the entire methylation thread, and yes, I don't think I totally understand your particular situation.

I notice you are in the UK, and I'm in the US, so we might have different definitions of hemochromatosis. For me, it basically means that ferritin is over 400, or TSAT is over 55%, or both. Ferritin is usually more representative of whole body iron stores. Ferritin over 1000 is usually seen as critical, as it can cause permanent liver damage. There is also a genetic component (I happen to carry a single copy of two of the genes thought to be responsible), but it's the iron itself that's the problem. I think this tends to be in line with what iron researchers and authors like E.D. Weinberg state as well. This is what I am going off of when I say that someone with hemochromatosis should never take any form of iron supplement (again, unless they were overbled).

Based on the quote "Remember I took high dose MB12 so effectively self-inflicted an iron deficiency by releasing the iron from the liver with nowhere to go/no transferrin," it sounds like you had a different issue. You displaced iron from your liver, into your bloodstream, overloading tranferrin (effectively making TSAT over 100%), while much of it was not bound to any carrier protein. All while the liver and marrow can't get enough iron to make hemoglobin. So, simultaneously, iron deficiency anemia (not one of the other kinds), along with TSAT over 100%? Is that correct? If so, that is something I never heard of, but seems plausible, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Also, if this is correct, this seems more like a short term condition (though still very serious), and I could see where it could be remedied with the correct supplements.

Hemochromatosis from high ferritin usually takes months, or even years, to treat with phlebotomy (sometimes with weekly or even bi-weekly extractions), or iron chelators like desferal. In the case of the "genetic mutations," it's considered permanent.

 

[mayweatherking]

if you have excessive iron.. wouldnt simply donating blood be enough to offset it?

 

[Sheila]

Dear Mr Kineticz,
I have enjoyed reading your findings, thank you. A question, if I may.
In conventional medicine, many chronic conditions lead to 'the anaemia of chronic disease' which, for the most part seems dismissed as to cause eg "well, cancer does that" ie. let's not look further., with the focus on making sure Hb and RBC do not go too low and resupplying via transfusion as needed.
I have come to appreciate this state as a low metabolism issue, often with concomitant high iron but low bioavailable iron and giving iron, which is often done, can make things worse, all of which you have confirmed I think.
In my experience, keeping Hb and RBC up is particularly problematic in chronic renal disease, although IF one can keep calcium levels up and phosphorus in check (not easy) Vitamin K2 supplementation seems to boost Hb levels well, which I presume is working with calcium to replenish RBC at the bone marrow level. But it does not seem to work with chronic leukaemia, where RBC and Hb lower as/or as a result of, far too many (immature) WBC being made. There may be more here so feel free to expound if you have any ideas. Vitamin K, despite good blood calcium and magnesium levels does not do the RBC, Hb increase job in CLL. Do you have any comment on all of this with respect to your perspective. I would appreciate your insights as I am sure I am missing connections here and - in both cases I am thinking of - lowered stomach acid (high inflammatory pictures) is highly likely.
I do appreciate your time to answer if you can.
Sincerely,
Sheila

 

[Agent207]

I think we are arguing the same point except you haven't either been through it or assimilated my testimonial very well.

I effectively de-ironed my liver and now I'm only taking iron as long as I take the co factors for ceruloplasmin and restore bone marrow with calcium.

Are you still doing the phospholipid exchange protocol before bed? I wonder if keeping a diet with proper ratio of LA:ALA is enough.

What do you think about Garth Nicolson and his lipid replacement theory approach?

A Special Note from Garth Nicolson PhD Why Lipid Replacement Therapy is Key to our Health

 

[kineticz]

Received a PM so thought I'd check in folks. I am feeling so good these days.

It's most likely caused by a shut down of the P450 enzyme in the liver which both feeds cholesterol into the adrenals to make pregnenolone and initiates phase 1 of cleansing your cells and bloodstream from toxins. It can start through serotonin-induced learned helplessness which is when your cells no longer respire to generate ATP to methylate into the P450 pathway.

What really helped me get the liver going was liquid (Lugols) iodine, a drop of that in water and some ferrous fumarate iron tablets taken WITH the liquid iodine.

Iron is the primary P450 component and liquid iodine (not iodine pills) ensures your stomach will make hydrochloric acid to absorb the iron and kickstart P450.

When P450 is blocked all your glutathione in the liver will be in oxidized (used) form rather than reduced (new, recycled) this concurs with your 'magic' feeling. In order to clear this transulfuration pathway (both P450 into the adrenal glands and glutathione are made through the same B6 cysteine pathway) you need to start generating ATP and releasing your toxins.

Now I can consume and benefit from sugar whenever I like. I don't tend to consume much, maybe 80gram a day, to keep ketogenesis the primarily fuel, but I no longer get low blood sugar as the liver is up to the job and sugar diverted cysteine into pregnenolone and glutathione/taurine/bile.

Kind regards
Daniel

 

[kineticz]

I also found during this healing many months worth of candida die off during sleep (horrific nightmares!) as the iron started to repair my liver and tackle anemic oxidized glutathione-reliant cells. My urine during this time had strong smells of ammonia too.

 

[Antonello]

Hi all been a while since my methylation thread got locked.

I found out that I have hemochromatosis, but it gets worse, I not only retain iron, I had low stomach acid so I wasn't absorbing iron either! With my family history of kidney disease you can understand my life's struggle. A sluggish liver and anemia cause high phosphates which leach calcium in the bone.

I wanted to say that you CAN become iron deficient if you are vitamin B2 deficient. This becomes low under high phoshorus and high oxidative stress/low glutathione redox.

So calcium IS needed to strengthen bone but the issue is while it might lower PTH, phosphate clearance and still be poor and this is driven by anemia and low stomach acid. Low stomach acid causes high lactic acid and this further demineralises bone to buffer the pH.

The reason magnesium helps therefore in high amounts is because it decalcifies your mitochondria which lowers lactic acid and serum phosphates. You then increase your calcium intake to rebuild your bone marrow.

The methylation posts continue to aid my health, I would give one word of warning which I give in my methylation, be very careful with methyl b12 as they are quick to push it on Freddd's forum but methyl b12 if you are malnourished is very bad, it lowers potassium, ceruloplasmin, b2, b6 - I have felt first hand the congestive heart problems with low potassium, and later I found out that low B2 causes low stomach acid so you become iron deficient! B12 is also very taxxing on your lipid membranes so it can alter your brain chemistry if you are low on oils and fats.

Malnutrition, edema and anemia are NOT pleasant so proceed carefully. A tank in liver function with heavy handedness of B12 causes high serum phosphates and brittle bones which is heavily damaging to the kidneys and further promotes anemia since bone marrow is where blood is made.

So Ray is right to urge against overmethylating with B12 and to use niacinamide. Potassium produces the necessary carbon dioxide to demethylate and then you take calcium to improve red cell production.

All the best
Dan
UK

Dear Dan,
Thanks for your research.
Can you please give to us a the dose and the form of magnesium you are using for this protocol?
Also I wanna to ask what is your thoughts on magnesium retention, do we really need thyroid for store the magnesium properly?
Regards

 

[Antonello]

@Kinetics "I found out that low B2 causes low stomach acid so you become iron deficient!"
I thought that is B1 that help with stomach acid. Where did you find the connection with B2?

 

[skycop00]

@Kinetics "I found out that low B2 causes low stomach acid so you become iron deficient!"
I thought that is B1 that help with stomach acid. Where did you find the connection with B2?

 

[Antonello]

Thank you very informative but I don't see mention the connection with B2.

 

[skycop00]

Thank you very informative but I don't see mention the connection with B2.

Yes Nor did I. I did several searches and could not find any mention of it.

 

[chrismturner89]

I had a thorough blood test and my hemochromatosis reading was off the scale.

The anemia is actually self-induced by heavy handedness of MB12, hence I am able to come back here and amend my theories on methylation to include the production of heme.

Since backing off the MB12 for a year and learning about the redox cycle and B2, I am now able to take MB12 with really exciting results in terms of stamina and wellbeing. I've tried all the supplements that supposedly help the gut, SIBO and hypochlorydia, all that and could never take in iron without horrible symptoms. Immediately by finding out that low B2 caused by high phosphates and low ATP - ADP - ATP in the mitochondria just happens to cause gastritis. As soon as I added high dose B2 I can take MB12 and iron and feel fantastic. All those gut supplements are the biggest scam on this earth.

Do you still stand by this or have you discovered anything further or information that has made you reconsider this statement?

I find what you've said in this threat truly fascinating.