My Journey To Optimal Health

[YourUniverse]

The entire forum now revolves around helping 1 member whom is reluctant to take advice

 

[Cirion]

Recovering from a state of chronic stress _sucks_, it makes you feel like absolute garbage, ask anyone who's ever recovered from a restrictive eating disorder or stopped smoking or withdrawn from any other addictive drug. You become tired, bloated, irritable, achy, hypoglycaemic, digestion all messed up, thermoregulation all messed up, cannot think straight, etc. These are not signs of low thyroid but of low levels of stress hormones like cortisol and dopamine. It happens when you are starting to recover from a state of prolonged exhaustive stress, and in this case it is a sign that you are doing something right. If you actually are in a state of chronic stress you can never recover as long as you simply chase feeling good, losing weight and having high temps while ignoring any internal cues of what you need to recover.

I get what you're saying but not buying it. By that logic I was in a state of low stress constantly before I found Peat, due to my constant 96F temps. No, I was hypothyroid. Pure and simple lol. The goal that every thyroid doctor (Broda barnes, Ray Peat, etc...) is to get to euthyroid temperatures, not to lower it in the name of lowering stress... Dopamine is not a stress hormone lol.

@Runenight201 I actually really don't have energy for video games. I find myself doing it because it fills my dopamine "hole" even tho it makes me tireder/e. I'll try again to quit this week but so far no luck lol.

The entire forum now revolves around helping 1 member whom is reluctant to take advice

Wow, no need to be such a **** about it. Nobody making you post here man. I do value all the posts made here even if I don't agree with them (Except for this post which adds literally nothing to the discussion except antagonism).

 

[YourUniverse]

I get what you're saying but not buying it. By that logic I was in a state of low stress constantly before I found Peat, due to my constant 96F temps. No, I was hypothyroid. Pure and simple lol. The goal that every thyroid doctor (Broda barnes, Ray Peat, etc...) is to get to euthyroid temperatures, not to lower it in the name of lowering stress... Dopamine is not a stress hormone lol.

@Runenight201 I actually really don't have energy for video games. I find myself doing it because it fills my dopamine "hole" even tho it makes me tireder/e. I'll try again to quit this week but so far no luck lol.



Wow, no need to be such a **** about it. Nobody making you post here man. I do value all the posts made here even if I don't agree with them (Except for this post which adds literally nothing to the discussion except antagonism).

Nothing I said is rude, it is truthful. You need help and scoff at advice given because it doesnt meet your false paradigms, and it is annoying, and I pointed it out. I wish everyone the best, I wish everyone health, including you.

 

[Cirion]

You say you are tired but you clearly aren't. If you were you would stop with your own experiments and obsession with temperature and follow tried and true methods and actual science.

There is nothing scientifically reasonable about what and how you eat. You will never achieve even close to optimal temps running on catecholamines and stress hormones(which you are). This why animal fat and flesh and starch lowers temperatures, because it tones down stress hormones. You run on catecholamines. Your yoyo dieting, obsessive need for control over little things and extreme measures are evidence of this. Getting back on the sugar train will start to raise catecholamines again giving the false sense of these things working right again.

You were advised by many against your course of action of operating on a one track mind of temps and pulse months ago in this thread and Dino D's thread as well as others. Even the top dog posters here who are much more knowledgeable have attempted to get your mind where it needs to be by giving real advice that works. Saying you are lost is an understatement. You are locked in chains of your own making. But as I said initially you clearly are not tired yet.

So broad barnes, ray peat, all of them are wrong that you should get to euthyroid body temps? I'm literally following the experts advice and somehow I'm crazy for doing so.

Also ray says starch in hypo should be zero and that muscle meat can be also a problem. I'm not following my own crazy ideas its literally what ray himself says. You're welcome to disagree of course, but you're not just disagreeing with me you disagree with key ray tenants.

That's actual science BTW as the thyroid doctors all agree on body temps correlating to hypo.

 

[lampofred]

ray peat, all of them are wrong that you should get to euthyroid body temps? I'm literally following the experts advice and somehow I'm crazy for doing so.

Also ray says starch in hypo should be zero and that muscle meat can be also a problem. I'm not following my own crazy ideas its literally what ray himself says.

That's actual science BTW as the thyroid doctors all agree on body temps correlating to hypo.

He also says keeping calcium higher than phosphate is extremely important and that vitamin D is essential for this.

Otherwise the stress burns you out and leaves you with chronic fatigue, which seems to be what happened.

 

[Cirion]

He also says keeping calcium higher than phosphate is extremely important and that vitamin D is essential for this.

Otherwise the stress burns you out and leaves you with chronic fatigue, which seems to be what happened.

Yeah, I'm giving milk another go.

I was eating low phosphorus AND low calcium, with calcium being low. I think it's more dangerous to go low phosphorus at the expense of too low calcium.(I wasn't even getting RDA)Trying for 200% rda calcium now. But getting rid of muscle meat, should tip the balance back in favor of calcium: phosphorus while also keeping total calcium high.

Having orange Julius at the recommendation of a couple people (OJ mixed with milk) this keeps the carb:protein ratio higher (plus tbh I dislike the taste of straight milk, this makes it taste like a refreshing orange drink).

I am thinking of getting tested for Iron. I was just thinking how muscle meats really jack me up (high Iron), not to mention that the diet that made me hypo in the first place was essentially a carnivore diet with TONS of meat daily (Iron overload anyone)?

 

[Cirion]

Nothing I said is rude, it is truthful. You need help and scoff at advice given because it doesnt meet your false paradigms, and it is annoying, and I pointed it out. I wish everyone the best, I wish everyone health, including you.

Well, I don't blindly follow what goes against my gut, as that's what landed me in this mess. I had a coach for the first year or so and I gained 80-90 lbs under his 'guidance' (I even kept telling him hey i'm gaining weight etc and he's just like no worries keep it up, you're doing it right and I followed without question). So, you'll excuse me if I don't just blindly take all advice.

People seem to frequently think I gained 80+ lb doing my own thing and I find that annoying because it isn't true. In fact it was NOT listening to my gut that resulted in gaining 80 lb. I knew gaining that much weight was wrong, but my coach kept plugging me along until I finally said enough is enough and fired him. It wasn't until then that I actually stabilized my weight gain but not before all the damage had been done, now I'm having to undo all of the damage he caused for me.

I want to iterate again though that I DO value all advice, whether I take or not, but yes, I'll be ultimately using my own discretion now after the disaster that happened before.

 

[Collden]

I get what you're saying but not buying it. By that logic I was in a state of low stress constantly before I found Peat, due to my constant 96F temps. No, I was hypothyroid. Pure and simple lol. The goal that every thyroid doctor (Broda barnes, Ray Peat, etc...) is to get to euthyroid temperatures, not to lower it in the name of lowering stress... Dopamine is not a stress hormone lol.

Dopamine is a catecholamine similar to adrenaline and noradrenaline and works in synergy with those stress hormones. Its main function is to mobilise energy and ready your body for action, same as other stress hormones. The main difference between dopamine and other stress hormones is that it mainly responds to opportunity rather than threat, so its associated with "positive stress" - but its stress all the same.

Thyroid also interacts with the stress hormones - it increases tissue responsiveness to catecholamines and stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, so a low thyroid person will often also be a person with low stress hormone activity. This is part of the reason why just eating and sleeping doesn't cure hypothyroidism by itself- you also need a certain amount of stimulation (positive stress) for optimal health.

I think the sustainably high thyroid state is a fine balance between high and low stress states - of expending resources and rebuilding them. A truly healthy high thyroid person is not simply hyperactive or low stress all the time - rather they get tired, unmotivated and inactive at the appropriate times where they follow their instinctive drives to eat what they crave and relax - and then become energetic, motivated and alert at the other appropriate times where they feel the urge to become active and discharge their built up energy in a coordinated fashion that serves to advance their goals.

So dopamine is the same as cortisol and adrenaline, none of them are good or bad, in fact you want all these hormones to be elevated at the appropriate times, but labelling any of them as absolutely good or bad and striving to keep them either perpetually low or perpetually high is a recipe for failure.

 

[redsun]

So broad barnes, ray peat, all of them are wrong that you should get to euthyroid body temps? I'm literally following the experts advice and somehow I'm crazy for doing so.

Broda Barnes, or Ray Peat 100% would not agree with your methods which are not correct. Get a response from Peat where you explain to him exactly how you have been eating, your body stats and he will tell you you are way way off. He will probably tell you that you are running on stress hormones, Your nutrient intake is inadequate, your diet is extreme and not going to work. He'd probably tell you to increase protein intake as that is the first most common cause of hypothyroidism and he himself mentions this in his quotes and likewise it is protein intake that is the best chance at increasing temperatures. If he says you are all good on the right track with diet, I will eat my ******* shoe. Guess what, he would never say that.

"The thermogenic substances–dietary protein, sodium, sucrose, thyroid and progesterone–are antiinflammatory for many reasons, but very likely the increased temperature itself is important.” -Ray Peat, PhD

Number one is protein, second is sodium, third is sucrose, thyroid is fourth and then there's progesterone. You obsess over sucrose and as of late thyroid and the #1 important thing for raising temperature you say is bad despite the fact that you will chomp down 4 burgers, obvious sign of protein deficiency. Its so obvious yet you refuse to fix it. Eat meat, eggs(for choline as well), and possibly dairy, all the above to intake as much protein as possible.

Eat tons, you'll drop the weight like a rock, your temps will lower initially then start climbing again, youll heat up like a stove and you'll have real energy, you'll have real drive again. You are literally dessicating from the inside out because you lack raw material. If you want to fix digestion take niacin like you are supposed to so you can start digesting real food again at a fast rate. Protein is the most important macronutrient period, sugar is nothing without protein, and you made the fatal mistake of thinking sugar is the key. This is my last attempt at advice for you. I am going to follow suit with many others who have just resorted to ignoring your posts for help as they have all been unsuccessful because you never listen.

TL;DR Eat a bunch of protein in the form of meat, seafood, eggs, and dairy, take oral B-complex and niacin every meal, eat carbs to appetite(dont eat just because which you mentioned you have been doing), use oral thyroid T3 therapeutically(not willy nilly taking a bunch at once) to help maintain energy levels so you can function. Get sleep, don't overstress about dietary things that dont matter, give the protein and Bs time to do their magic, and you'll be back to your old self soon enough. Take it or leave it.

 

[Cirion]

@redsun

OK, then why did eating so much meat cause my hypothyroid in the first place 2 yrs ago? I ate protein day in and day out and my temps dropped to 96F. Been there done that. Didn't work.

Also, not much protein is needed--at least if its quality--. Ray peat has said that 80 grams of quality protein is more than enough (and BTW my data shows this also). Yeah, I chomped down 4 burgers because I was eating less than 80 gram for several days in a row, which even I admit is too low.

Protein "deficiency" is a smokescreen. Yes, you are right, hypo people are fairly deficient in protein. I want to say this to say that on this we do agree, but only at face value. But it's not for a lack of protein intake. It's for lack of carbohydrates (either insufficient intake, or insufficient uptake AKA diabetes/insulin resistance / fatty acid oxidation). Ray peat has literally said that eating poor quality foods (read: MUSCLE MEATS) can literally exascerbate a protein deficiency in fact! The average American eats 2-3X rda protein yet is "protein deficient". Should they eat even more protein?? No. They need to fix insulin resistance, and eat more carbs. Ray peat does NOT recommend muscle meats at all ever except minimal amounts and always with gelatin and/or milk (superior proteins)

When you are:

-- Insulin resistance
-- Hypothyroid
-- Have elevated FFA's in blood / elevated stress & FAO

Then your body breaks down protein for GLUCOSE. Why is FFA/FAO high? To bring blood glucose up in a sensed GLUCOSE (not protein) deficiency. The sensed glucose deficiency is what drives the protein deficiency. If you do eat more protein, its just gonna convert to glucose, in a very wasteful process (gluconeogenesis).

I do agree that eating carbs alone without protein is unwise, but Haidut posted a thread showing that you only need about 1 parts protein to 10 parts carbs for carbs to be assimilated optimally (doesn't take much protein) so about a 1:10 ratio. (That's science, he posted an actual scientific study on it) for those that think I'm anti science.

I'm using Ray Peat's own words as arguments, so this is why I'm frustrated arguing with people, using Ray Peat's words on a ray peat forum lol. Everything I said can be found in various Ray Peat articles. I'm not even really using my own opinions in this whole post I just made.

 

[Cirion]

Some relevant quotes:

Gelatin, stress, longevity

The amino acids that constitute protein have many hormone-like functions in their free state. When our glucose (glycogen) stores have been depleted, we convert our own tissue into free amino acids, some of which are used to produce new glucose. The amino acids cysteine and tryptophan, released in large quantities during stress, have antimetabolic (thyroid-suppressing) and, eventually, toxic effects. Hypothyroidism itself increases the catabolic turnover of protein, even though general metabolism is slowed.

Both tryptophan and cysteine inhibit thyroid function and mitochondrial energy production, and have other effects that decrease the ability to withstand stress. Tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin, which causes inflammation, immunodepression, and generally the same changes seen in aging. Histidine is another amino acid precursor to a mediator of inflammation, histamine; would the restriction of histidine in the diet have a longevity promoting effect, too?

It happens that gelatin is a protein which contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. Using gelatin as a major dietary protein is an easy way to restrict the amino acids that are associated with many of the problems of aging.

When only the muscle meats are eaten, the amino acid balance entering our blood stream is the same as that produced by extreme stress, when cortisol excess causes our muscles to be broken down to provide energy and material for repair. The formation of serotonin is increased by the excess tryptophan in muscle, and serotonin stimulates the formation of more cortisol, while the tryptophan itself, along with the excess muscle-derived cysteine, suppresses the thyroid function.

There were also lots of posts definitely advocating for NOT eating too low protein, so I'll grant you that. For some reason a quick google search couldn't locate a couple of quotes I was looking for but you'll have to take my word for it. Peat definitely did say if he dipped below 80-100 gram or so he didn't feel right, so I think we all agree that's about as low as you should ever get for sure and that definitely, I went too low on my low protein experiment lol agreed there.

"The thermogenic substances–dietary protein, sodium, sucrose, thyroid and progesterone–are antiinflammatory for many reasons, but very likely the increased temperature itself is important.” -Ray Peat, PhD

I'm requoting this quote you quoted for great justice, emphasizing temperature matters.

The quality of most vegetable protein (especially beans and nuts) is so low that it hardly functions as protein. Muscle meats (including the muscles of poultry and fish) contain large amounts of the amino acids that suppress the thyroid, and shouldn't be the only source of protein. It's a good idea to have a quart of milk every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish…”

“Protein deficiency creates an inflammatory state, and since stress causes tissue proteins to be destroyed and converted into sugars and fats, it's common to underestimate the amount of protein needed. One of the functions of sucrose in the diet is to reduce the production of cortisol, and so to spare protein."

 

[Cirion]

Dopamine is a catecholamine similar to adrenaline and noradrenaline and works in synergy with those stress hormones. Its main function is to mobilise energy and ready your body for action, same as other stress hormones. The main difference between dopamine and other stress hormones is that it mainly responds to opportunity rather than threat, so its associated with "positive stress" - but its stress all the same.

Thyroid also interacts with the stress hormones - it increases tissue responsiveness to catecholamines and stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, so a low thyroid person will often also be a person with low stress hormone activity. This is part of the reason why just eating and sleeping doesn't cure hypothyroidism by itself- you also need a certain amount of stimulation (positive stress) for optimal health.

I think the sustainably high thyroid state is a fine balance between high and low stress states - of expending resources and rebuilding them. A truly healthy high thyroid person is not simply hyperactive or low stress all the time - rather they get tired, unmotivated and inactive at the appropriate times where they follow their instinctive drives to eat what they crave and relax - and then become energetic, motivated and alert at the other appropriate times where they feel the urge to become active and discharge their built up energy in a coordinated fashion that serves to advance their goals.

So dopamine is the same as cortisol and adrenaline, none of them are good or bad, in fact you want all these hormones to be elevated at the appropriate times, but labelling any of them as absolutely good or bad and striving to keep them either perpetually low or perpetually high is a recipe for failure.

That's an interesting thought process, I guess too much dopamine produced artificially can be harmful. I can't see natural dopamine being harmful ever tho (like not from excess stimulation) but natural dopamine released from every day life like going out with friends, going for a stroll in the park etc.

Perhaps that is why @Mufasa said forced boredome can be restorative in hypo? That means not only low cortisol but also forcing a temporary state of low dopamine by avoiding excess stimulating like from TV and video games.

 

[Runenight201]

Dopamine is a catecholamine similar to adrenaline and noradrenaline and works in synergy with those stress hormones. Its main function is to mobilise energy and ready your body for action, same as other stress hormones. The main difference between dopamine and other stress hormones is that it mainly responds to opportunity rather than threat, so its associated with "positive stress" - but its stress all the same.

Thyroid also interacts with the stress hormones - it increases tissue responsiveness to catecholamines and stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, so a low thyroid person will often also be a person with low stress hormone activity. This is part of the reason why just eating and sleeping doesn't cure hypothyroidism by itself- you also need a certain amount of stimulation (positive stress) for optimal health.

I think the sustainably high thyroid state is a fine balance between high and low stress states - of expending resources and rebuilding them. A truly healthy high thyroid person is not simply hyperactive or low stress all the time - rather they get tired, unmotivated and inactive at the appropriate times where they follow their instinctive drives to eat what they crave and relax - and then become energetic, motivated and alert at the other appropriate times where they feel the urge to become active and discharge their built up energy in a coordinated fashion that serves to advance their goals.

So dopamine is the same as cortisol and adrenaline, none of them are good or bad, in fact you want all these hormones to be elevated at the appropriate times, but labelling any of them as absolutely good or bad and striving to keep them either perpetually low or perpetually high is a recipe for failure.

I liked this post. It corresponds a lot with how I like to live also. Big heavy protein/starchy meals, lay low for an hour or so, and then once the energy has been assimilated, eat some fruit/sugar and then ramp up energy expenditure. During my high energy expenditure I don’t need anything besides water to keep me going. It’s very freeing.

I didn’t know about dopamine also being considered a stress hormone. It does make sense though. As being “on” all the time, even if through dopamine, can get exhausting. I remember one time I was tired due to sleep deprivation but kept experiencing feelings of grandiosity, motivation, drive, etc.... I felt the underlying fatigue but was to turned on to relax and fall asleep.

This idea of cyclical energy corresponds with a ton of natural concepts. Day/night, high tide/low tide, summer/winter, hunt/eat/sleep, etc... many wild animals sleep all the damn time. Even my own dog sleeps for about 16 hours a day or more and then plays, eats, and hangs around lol. it is perhaps the greatest sin we have done to ourselves by attempting to accomplish so much irrespective of our own natural instincts.

 

[Cirion]

I think some things like TV and video games increase both cortisol and dopamine concurrently. I tend to be most addicted to things like these when I'm very hypo. Video games didn't use to be as addicting when we had cheesy 2-dimensional games. Now we have 3-d games and even full VR games that really enhance the dopamine/cortisol responses. Now you can play horror games in full VR. Stress hormones anyone? I'm definitely aware it is self-medication, and even though video games are not as harmful as hard drugs, still probably not the greatest things to do for hours and hours on end when I should be winding down not winding up to recover. I need to pick up a new hobby that's not as stimulating, or at least learn how to just "do nothing" lol. I'm in agreement there. I dream of living on a beach and just laying in the sun all day. But then, would my hyperactive brain allow me to do that without deciding "I need to do something" 15 minutes into sun-bathing? lol

 

[Cirion]

Re:protein

Looked at my data since now I have way more data on protein. I've looked at protein smaller scale (couple of days) but decided to plot it up on a bigger time frame (14 days or two weeks)

100 grams definitely seems to be the sweet spot both for weight loss and metabolic rate. It's quite clear that more than that is not helpful for metabolic rate but especially not for body weight, and you can see in the plot how my weight balloons up on more than 100 gram and metabolic rate tanks concurrently. But, the same things happens with less protein, so that's also not good. 100 grams it is then... 175 gram protein average brought about as much as 10 lb weight gain in 14 days, so I won't be going back to that no matter what someone tries to tell me high protein will do for me. Sorry not sorry, not gonna apologize for sticking to my guns on this.

 

[redsun]

@redsun

OK, then why did eating so much meat cause my hypothyroid in the first place 2 yrs ago? I ate protein day in and day out and my temps dropped to 96F. Been there done that. Didn't work.

Also, not much protein is needed--at least if its quality--. Ray peat has said that 80 grams of quality protein is more than enough (and BTW my data shows this also). Yeah, I chomped down 4 burgers because I was eating less than 80 gram for several days in a row, which even I admit is too low.

Protein "deficiency" is a smokescreen. Yes, you are right, hypo people are fairly deficient in protein. I want to say this to say that on this we do agree, but only at face value. But it's not for a lack of protein intake. It's for lack of carbohydrates (either insufficient intake, or insufficient uptake AKA diabetes/insulin resistance / fatty acid oxidation). Ray peat has literally said that eating poor quality foods (read: MUSCLE MEATS) can literally exascerbate a protein deficiency in fact! The average American eats 2-3X rda protein yet is "protein deficient". Should they eat even more protein?? No. They need to fix insulin resistance, and eat more carbs. Ray peat does NOT recommend muscle meats at all ever except minimal amounts and always with gelatin and/or milk (superior proteins)

When you are:

-- Insulin resistance
-- Hypothyroid
-- Have elevated FFA's in blood / elevated stress & FAO

Then your body breaks down protein for GLUCOSE. Why is FFA/FAO high? To bring blood glucose up in a sensed GLUCOSE (not protein) deficiency. The sensed glucose deficiency is what drives the protein deficiency. If you do eat more protein, its just gonna convert to glucose, in a very wasteful process (gluconeogenesis).

I do agree that eating carbs alone without protein is unwise, but Haidut posted a thread showing that you only need about 1 parts protein to 10 parts carbs for carbs to be assimilated optimally (doesn't take much protein) so about a 1:10 ratio. (That's science, he posted an actual scientific study on it) for those that think I'm anti science.

I'm using Ray Peat's own words as arguments, so this is why I'm frustrated arguing with people, using Ray Peat's words on a ray peat forum lol. Everything I said can be found in various Ray Peat articles. I'm not even really using my own opinions in this whole post I just made.

80g protein is sufficient for a small woman, not an adult overweight male. Yeh putting deficiency of protein in quotes just proves you don't actually understand the implications. You still latch onto to sugars as the key to hypothyroidism. You need carbs, but carbs are useless without protein. And yet by your words, you need more carbs for hypo, you should have a better thyroid then the rest of us. Yet you have one of the worst functioning thyroids on this forum if not the worst, evidence being your current bodyweight, your horrid temperature consistency, your inability to engage in much exercise without severe exhaustion, I can go on and on... Funnily enough you need cysteine to make coenzyme A, and therefore acetyl-CoA. There is no TCA cycle without acetyl-CoA therefore there is no citric acid cycle without cysteine. Lots of out of context posting that I probably already debated with you before so I am not going to bother. All aminos have a role in the human body as much you like to think this is not the case and that a few aminos are the cause of your issues. Yet with mountains of gelatin you didnt get any better. Theory this theory that, your extreme methods you have done to prove this have been and are still full of ***t as they have not fixed your health. Your aversion to muscle meats is up to you, get your protein from seafood, milk, eggs, and organs the point is to actually get protein.

Do not even begin to try to discuss insulin resistance with me when you don't even take B vitamins orally. Energin is clearly not absorbing beyond the fat under your area of application and not enough for your bodyweight otherwise you would not be in such a mess and you wouldnt even be pounding down as much sugar as you might actually have been oxidizing it.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I'm not gonna argue about protein anymore and I have a million things I can say in response, but most of which I've already said anyway and since we both know it won't end productively all I will say is that of course I'm having problems, just being fat is stressful and promotes IR, FFA, FAO and even if I eat the 100% perfect diet it is hard to recover, one doesn't recover overnight even with a picture perfect diet and lifestyle, and if I deviate from the 100% perfect diet (which I have the last few weeks) then of course symptoms return in full force, this shouldn't be a surprise. Even with picture perfect diet of course I won't have a better metabolism than someone lean without FFA's/FAO/etc to deal with, again shouldn't be a surprise, by definition being hypo/overweight comes with that and increased protein catabolism and other fun things.

Anyway... moving on from that dead horse of a subject...

I'm open to taking B vitamins orally, I don't recall ever saying I was resistant to doing so? I have actually a few days taken energin orally. Didn't notice a difference. I'm already taking like 5x the dosage (Haidut said in an interview that one only needs to take it once every 5 days, and I'm taking it every day). That said I guess its possible even that's not enough, maybe I can start taking some oral product in addition to energin topically.

 

[lampofred]

80g protein is sufficient for a small woman, not an adult overweight male. Yeh putting deficiency of protein in quotes just proves you don't actually understand the implications. You still latch onto to sugars as the key to hypothyroidism. You need carbs, but carbs are useless without protein. And yet by your words, you need more carbs for hypo, you should have a better thyroid then the rest of us. Yet you have one of the worst functioning thyroids on this forum if not the worst, evidence being your current bodyweight, your horrid temperature consistency, your inability to engage in much exercise without severe exhaustion, I can go on and on... Funnily enough you need cysteine to make coenzyme A, and therefore acetyl-CoA. There is no TCA cycle without acetyl-CoA therefore there is no citric acid cycle without cysteine. Lots of out of context posting that I probably already debated with you before so I am not going to bother. All aminos have a role in the human body as much you like to think this is not the case and that a few aminos are the cause of your issues. Yet with mountains of gelatin you didnt get any better. Theory this theory that, your extreme methods you have done to prove this have been and are still full of ***t as they have not fixed your health. Your aversion to muscle meats is up to you, get your protein from seafood, milk, eggs, and organs the point is to actually get protein.

Do not even begin to try to discuss insulin resistance with me when you don't even take B vitamins orally. Energin is clearly not absorbing beyond the fat under your area of application and not enough for your bodyweight otherwise you would not be in such a mess and you wouldnt even be pounding down as much sugar as you might actually have been oxidizing it.

Protein might have been the hypo cure for you but that doesn't mean it's going to cure hypo for everyone. RP actually said hypothyroidism is analogous to a glucose deficiency. The older you are the less the protein you need because you are done growing, and excess protein will increase methylation and shut down the body.

Plus I think the high carb could have actually caused brain growth, it seems to me like there is a difference in writing style from the beginning of this log to now...

Also I think excess meat and especially organ meat could make you run on purine-driven energy as opposed to thyroid.

 

[Cirion]

It is silly to try to divide people into "protein" camps and "carb" camps.

Do you need protein? Yes.

Do you need sugar? Yes.

Can you get by on just one or the other? No.

Therefore, both protein and carbs are equally important. They are synergistic, they both require each other. One can not say one is more important than the other. You can die just eating protein (see rabbit starvation) and you can probably die just eating carbs (see fruitarians who waste away to almost no muscle and no fat).

And yes of equal importance is ability to assimilate protein and carbs. You won't hear any arguments from me here.

 

[Cirion]

I have officially eliminated meat from the diet and made the switch to milk. I briefly was on fattier types of milk, but quickly remembered that is stupid for me to do as me and fats don't mix, so I am transitioning from whole to 2% to skim. Milk still gives me kind of a drugged out like feeling but at least I lost a good amount of weight yesterday (but keeping in mind, that's with a lot of fat, so I actually more blame the fat than the milk for the drugged like feeling) but thats pretty cool that I dropped in weight even with whole milk. I'm gonna just tough it out this time and "Force" my body to get used to milk, as it is simply the only food that is going to work for my goals (avoiding meat while not being too low protein) as I feel like its doing me good if I can have a lot of it and shed weight while doing so. I am also having a couple eggs a day though, so that I can get 100% RDA choline. My cronometer looks the best it has in a while actually, with virtually everything being at least 100% RDA, and calcium at 200-300% RDA due to adding milk back in. I'm adding orange juice and maple syrup to heavily sweeten the milk and make it into a high carb:protein ratio, which lessens the "drugged" feeling slightly.

So, now I'm basically full on peat now. Milk and orange juice lol =P Well, and some other things too, but those are actually my bulk calories lol.