My Journey To Optimal Health

[redsun]

Yes, for myself.
So, the other way then? Via improving digestion? If yes, how?

Well if you do have a B12 deficiency you dont want to wait to try and fix digestion. A blood test confirms deficiency then you would be given shots or oral tablets. If you dont plan on testing you can always buy B12 as methylcobalamin tablets which come in 1 to 5mg tablets and see how you feel from them. If you do it sublingually it will get in the system faster. The longer you keep sublingual B12 under the tongue the more you absorb. 1-5mg tablets have an absorption rate of about 1% by diffusion.

 

[Vinny]

Well if you do have a B12 deficiency you dont want to wait to try and fix digestion. A blood test confirms deficiency then you would be given shots or oral tablets. If you dont plan on testing you can always buy B12 as methylcobalamin tablets which come in 1 to 5mg tablets and see how you feel from them. If you do it sublingually it will get in the system faster. The longer you keep sublingual B12 under the tongue the more you absorb. 1-5mg tablets have an absorption rate of about 1% by diffusion.

ok, thanks.

 

[Markus]

I am definitely thinking someone sick should definitely focus on the most nutritious foods possible which is basically what I'm starting to converge upon.

That is the same conclusion that I've come to.

 

[Cirion]

Weight more or less unchanged again today. I am suspecting the broth as a culprit. It's a sad day when even bone broth prevents weight loss lol.... this is what things have come to.... the whole container is 2.2 lbs though, probably just adding too much liquid to the diet. I will try cooking the potatoes in broth again today like usual, but this time throwing out the extra broth rather than drinking it all.

I notice a trend that happens virtually every day--- I get thru the whole day and maybe gain 1 lb of bloat, and then dinner makes me gain a whopping 2-3 more lb of bloat. I think I commented on this earlier in my thread. Maybe digestion is just awful in the evening? This might explain why people tell you not to eat soon before bed?

So what basically happens is it takes most of the night to lose the dinner bloat, not leaving much to lose any weight beyond that... and this is precisely why fasting from dinner seems to make me lose weight

Starting to really think those intermittent fasters are on to something.

I think the compromise is at the very least, eat calorie rich foods and NOT high volume foods (like the 4 cups / 2.2 lbs of broth I was doing). High volume / high weight foods seem to just stick in your gut for a long time, especially at night time. I mean, even 12 hrs without the high volume foods doesn't seem enough. Seems to me that high volume foods should cease after lunch time.

 

[redsun]

Weight more or less unchanged again today. I am suspecting the broth as a culprit. It's a sad day when even bone broth prevents weight loss lol.... this is what things have come to.... the whole container is 2.2 lbs though, probably just adding too much liquid to the diet. I will try cooking the potatoes in broth again today like usual, but this time throwing out the extra broth rather than drinking it all.

I notice a trend that happens virtually every day--- I get thru the whole day and maybe gain 1 lb of bloat, and then dinner makes me gain a whopping 2-3 more lb of bloat. I think I commented on this earlier in my thread. Maybe digestion is just awful in the evening? This might explain why people tell you not to eat soon before bed?

So what basically happens is it takes most of the night to lose the dinner bloat, not leaving much to lose any weight beyond that... and this is precisely why fasting from dinner seems to make me lose weight

Starting to really think those intermittent fasters are on to something.

I think the compromise is at the very least, eat calorie rich foods and NOT high volume foods (like the 4 cups / 2.2 lbs of broth I was doing). High volume / high weight foods seem to just stick in your gut for a long time, especially at night time. I mean, even 12 hrs without the high volume foods doesn't seem enough. Seems to me that high volume foods should cease after lunch time.

The increased sodium will make you hold more water. If you keep up sodium intake the water will drop. It takes time for the body to adjust to different sodium intake and this especially when there is a vast different. Most people eat like 4g sodium a day, going up to 8g or more for example will cause bloat until the body recalibrates. This is why its best to consume salt to taste. I found 8g sodium to become a chore and I do fine with 4-5, sometimes 6 grams and this is entirely based on taste. I dont think you need tons of sodium, taste is the best indicator.

 

[Cirion]

The increased sodium will make you hold more water. If you keep up sodium intake the water will drop. It takes time for the body to adjust to different sodium intake and this especially when there is a vast different. Most people eat like 4g sodium a day, going up to 8g or more for example will cause bloat until the body recalibrates. This is why its best to consume salt to taste. I found 8g sodium to become a chore and I do fine with 4-5, sometimes 6 grams and this is entirely based on taste. I dont think you need tons of sodium, taste is the best indicator.

Maybe, but I've always been eating pretty high sodium for the most part & I have noticed this bloating in the evening trend for months now its not a new thing, just something I'm trying to understand fairly recently and resolve.

BTW I always heavily salt my potatoes. I don't think it is as simple as just sodium as a result. I replaced directly salting the potatoes with broth, so I think actually the net sodium is precisely the same. I really think it boils down to volume. In hypothyroid, dealing with calorically un-dense foods seems to be a major problem. It costs more energy to process foods that are higher volume/weight but the same (or less) calories.

 

[redsun]

Maybe, but I've always been eating pretty high sodium for the most part & I have noticed this bloating in the evening trend for months now its not a new thing, just something I'm trying to understand fairly recently and resolve.

BTW I always heavily salt my potatoes. I don't think it is as simple as just sodium as a result. I replaced directly salting the potatoes with broth, so I think actually the net sodium is precisely the same. I really think it boils down to volume. In hypothyroid, dealing with calorically un-dense foods seems to be a major problem. It costs more energy to process foods that are higher volume/weight but the same (or less) calories.

How much sodium do you have compared to potassium? Potassium helps shuttle glucose into cells and is probably necessary if we are talking high quantities of carbs. Insulin depletes potassium by shuttling it into cells. K and insulin work in synergy.

 

[Cirion]

6 grams a day of potassium usually, plenty.

None of this explains why digestion is worse in the evening. I really think there is a circadian cycle to digestion at this point. It makes sense, if you think about it. Digestion needs to be strong in the waking hours to get you the energy you need. Digestion from a circadian cycle stand point doesn't need to be strong at night because that's when your body is going to sleep and doesn't need the energy.

 

[charlie]

Via improving digestion? If yes, how?

For me B1, B3, magnesium, and branch out from there with the other cofactors. And of course everything Peaty. Trying to score some liverwurst for the B's but dang their minimum order requirements.

I tried Swansons B1 and was not impressed. When I got a high quality powder it was night and day. Niacniamide gives me anxiety, Niacin not so much and just seems to work better. Not sure what to do about that situation.

 

[redsun]

6 grams a day of potassium usually, plenty.

None of this explains why digestion is worse in the evening. I really think there is a circadian cycle to digestion at this point. It makes sense, if you think about it. Digestion needs to be strong in the waking hours to get you the energy you need. Digestion from a circadian cycle stand point doesn't need to be strong at night because that's when your body is going to sleep and doesn't need the energy.

Think less circadian rhythm and more the rhythm of stress building up over the day so the increases sympathetic activation from daily stress worsening the digestion.

 

[Cirion]

Think less circadian rhythm and more the rhythm of stress building up over the day so the increases sympathetic activation from daily stress worsening the digestion.

Assuming ample food intake and not having a crazy stressful day but an "average" stress day, stress should decrease over the course of the day, not increase. This is what an average cortisol curve looks like vs. time of day:



Night time is by far the most stressful time of the day. Ray peat has written extensively about this.

 

[redsun]

Assuming ample food intake and not having a crazy stressful day but an "average" stress day, stress should decrease over the course of the day, not increase. This is what an average cortisol curve looks like vs. time of day:



Night time is by far the most stressful time of the day. Ray peat has written extensively about this.

Sympathetic activation is not necessarily cortisol. Noradrenaline(which is the primary sympathetic neurotransmitter) can easily increase throughout the day. Keep in mind even normal stress days can be detrimental to digestion if there is deficiencies. There is also sympathetic overactivation caused directly because of obesity and more so abdominal fat. According to chris masterjohn, the fatty acids from the abdominal adipose tissue when they are released empty right into the liver, increase FFAs in the liver, and probably worsening fatty liver despite measures taken to mitigate FFA. I believe the sympathetic activation is a adaptive mechanism to increase energy expenditure and is also directly increased by elevated FFAs in blood from extra adipose tissue.

 

[Cirion]

Regardless of the reason, digestion is worse in the evenings, which means saving heavy meals for night doesn't make sense for me.

 

[Cirion]

So after some reading of random threads today, I randomly came across the fact that the pancreas is strongly involved with digestive health.

So, why not eat beef pancreas organ meat or use something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Ancestral-Supplements-Grass-Fed-Pancreas/dp/B0734FP2W4

It seems far more logical to regenerate your own pancreas, than it does to subsist on digestive enzymes for the rest of your life, which is some people will recommend that you do.

 

[charlie]

So, why not eat beef pancreas organ meat or use something like this?

That's what I been doing.

 

[Andy316]

Bloating has got bad for me too, undigested food to just sitting in the gut and causing massive bloating, really must be a weak pancreas that cant digest protein. Have ordered Wobenzym n (Pancreatic systemic enzymes) and Ox Bile (Fat digestion) to experiment (Will be trying one supplement at a time though, not together) should be arriving Monday. *Fingers Crossed*

So after some reading of random threads today, I randomly came across the fact that the pancreas is strongly involved with digestive health.

So, why not eat beef pancreas organ meat or use something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Ancestral-Supplements-Grass-Fed-Pancreas/dp/B0734FP2W4

It seems far more logical to regenerate your own pancreas, than it does to subsist on digestive enzymes for the rest of your life, which is some people will recommend that you do.

 

[Cirion]

Lol before long I might starting either eating or supplementing virtually all the various organs. Hey, there are worse things to do, and one of the amazon reviewers of the pancreas supplement said that's how she transformed her life (eating brain, gallbladder, kidney, thymus, liver, pancreas, heart,... basically the whole nine yards lol)

@charlie
Are you supplementing pancreas or actually eating it? US wellness meats doesn't sell pancreas =(

Interestingly, US wellness meats DOES sell thymus, which seems like it could be helpful too, as Ray talks about the thymus as an important organ that is easily destroyed.

 

[Vinny]

None of this explains why digestion is worse in the evening. I really think there is a circadian cycle to digestion at this point.

Cirion,
Probably digestion is not the same all the time. I, however, for all my life except last year or two, had been eating gigantic portions of food, in the middle of the night, loaded with pufa and sometimes accompanied with alcohol, till I burst. Horrible, but never been obese.
Now, when I`m truly done with all that madness, I became obese. Go figure...
Yes, age must`ve been taking its toll, and midnight eating is best not to be done as well, but there must be another, unknown yet factor, contributing the unexplained fat gain.
Meanwhile, I suspect my pancreas is not in a good state. I hope I`m wrong, because pancreas is very, very difficult to heal.

 

[Cirion]

Cirion,
Probably digestion is not the same all the time. I, however, for all my life except last year or two, had been eating gigantic portions of food, in the middle of the night, loaded with pufa and sometimes accompanied with alcohol, till I burst. Horrible, but never been obese.
Now, when I`m truly done with all that madness, I became obese. Go figure...
Yes, age must`ve been taking its toll, and midnight eating is best not to be done as well, but there must be another, unknown yet factor, contributing the explainable fat gain.
Meanwhile, I suspect my pancreas is not in a good state. I hope I`m wrong, because pancreas is very, very difficult to heal.

Yeah, I am thinking the unknown factor is failure of one or multiple organs, hence my latest approach which is load up on organ meat. Hopefully I'm right...

The good news is if you ascribe to the whole "eat organ to heal said organ" then pancreas is actually not hard to heal, just eat lots of pancreas.

 

[Vinny]

The good news is if you ascribe to the whole "eat organ to heal said organ" then pancreas is actually not hard to heal, just eat lots of pancreas.

Ok. In this case, I should try to reestablish again a positive connection I had once with one local butcher, so that presumably, with his contacts, get my hands on some good fresh juicy pancreas tissue. It`s achievable, I think, I hope only, that this "eat organ/gland to heal organ/gland" is not a hippy bulsh*t!