My Journey To Optimal Health

milkboi

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Check it out guys. If I wasn't convinced starch is the devil. I am now.

View attachment 13624

These are 14-day rolling averages from my personal database. Clearly, increased starch directly lowers body temp and pulses. I'm done with starch now. After seeing these plots, I can not in good conscious eat it anymore.

14-day data is quite trust-worthy because it eliminates most of the day-to-day scatter (At least in pulse and temps). Wt change is still somewhat volatile.

**note when I say decrease temp and pulses I mean long-term, short term, starch can and dose raise temp and pulses, misleading you into thinking it's helpful.

I wonder if that’s only only a result of bad digestion/endotoxin
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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I wonder if that’s only only a result of bad digestion/endotoxin

Partially, yes, probably. But I know only a handful of people who are attempting the high caloric intakes that I am, and when it comes to high caloric intake, starches can probably destroy even a healthy persons' gut. I don't know anyone here on a 5000 calorie diet thriving off of starch lol.

The fact is that starch needs more digestive energy to digest than sugars, healthy or not. Its just that a healthy person has more digestive power so they can eat more starch before the problems really become apparent.
 

Bart1

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Partially, yes, probably. But I know only a handful of people who are attempting the high caloric intakes that I am, and when it comes to high caloric intake, starches can probably destroy even a healthy persons' gut. I don't know anyone here on a 5000 calorie diet thriving off of starch lol.
Do you believe in “good” gut bacteria?
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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Do you believe in “good” gut bacteria?

Really I don't know enough about gut bacteria to make a good judgment call. I don't think anyone knows a lot about gut bacteria, not even Ray, because we have seen here that taking antibiotics has messed people up.

I can say for almost certainty that at least some strands of bacteria is probably not helpful though. I guess I'm leaning towards that there are some good strands of bacteria, so I think some select antibiotics may indeed be helpful... ones that destroy the band strands but leave the good strands intact.

I do not believe in probiotics though. But, I'm open to the possibility that supplementing specific strands *may* be useful.
 

Bart1

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Really I don't know enough about gut bacteria to make a good judgment call. I don't think anyone knows a lot about gut bacteria, not even Ray, because we have seen here that taking antibiotics has messed people up.

I can say for almost certainty that at least some strands of bacteria is probably not helpful though. I guess I'm leaning towards that there are some good strands of bacteria, so I think some select antibiotics may indeed be helpful...
You also read the book of Nathan right? He talks about lactic acid producing bacteria as the bad bacteria. Apple pectin, ACV is advised to help the good bacteria. I’m also not sure. Definitely a regular course of antibiotics can mess you up; that’s my experience. Although also good things come out of it **** well, but then I think lower dose and long term probably. But I think it’s a complicated matter. I think it’s too easy to say all bacteria are bad.
 

Vinny

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Check it out guys. If I wasn't convinced starch is the devil. I am now.

View attachment 13624

These are 14-day rolling averages from my personal database. Clearly, increased starch directly lowers body temp and pulses. I'm done with starch now. After seeing these plots, I can not in good conscious eat it anymore.

14-day data is quite trust-worthy because it eliminates most of the day-to-day scatter (At least in pulse and temps). Wt change is still somewhat volatile.

**note when I say decrease temp and pulses I mean long-term, short term, starch can and dose raise temp and pulses, misleading you into thinking it's helpful.
Amazing!
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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You also read the book of Nathan right? He talks about lactic acid producing bacteria as the bad bacteria. Apple pectin, ACV is advised to help the good bacteria. I’m also not sure. Definitely a regular course of antibiotics can mess you up; that’s my experience. Although also good things come out of it **** well, but then I think lower dose and long term probably. But I think it’s a complicated matter. I think it’s too easy to say all bacteria are bad.

I agree with that. Lactic acid is the main problem, that and serotonin. Maybe I should make sure I have an apple or two a day. I stopped eating apples though out of fear of pesticides... maybe I can peel them and eliminate a lot of concern... but doesn't pesticide seep even through the skin of apples? I guess just get organic and not worry about the skin.
 

Bart1

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i guess when money is tight you coukd get the regular onces and peel them. I think berries have the most pesticides
 
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Cirion

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Who needs starch for raising body temps. Today I am on pure sugar and as I write this my body temp is 100.1F basically fever levels lol.
 

milkboi

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Who needs starch for raising body temps. Today I am on pure sugar and as I write this my body temp is 100.1F basically fever levels lol.
Good ish my man, keep living that oven life. Inb4 you grill the occasional lean beef on your skin.
 

Bart1

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Who needs starch for raising body temps. Today I am on pure sugar and as I write this my body temp is 100.1F basically fever levels lol.
Btw how do you consume starch? Do you accompany it with a soda or some fruit?
 
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Cirion

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Good ish my man, keep living that oven life. Inb4 you grill the occasional lean beef on your skin.

Lol!

Btw how do you consume starch? Do you accompany it with a soda or some fruit?

The only starch I eat anymore is a small bit of white rice. I think white rice is the most benign starch you can possibly eat. But I limit even that. Yeah I usually have sugar with it. I don't think glucose is used very well in the absence of fructose. Fructose and glucose are both synergestic to each other, that's one reason why sugar is so useful.
 
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Cirion

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I now think the last thing I'm eating that is causing me inflammation is my jello concoction, which makes me a little sad. Gelatin, OJ, and honey. I am not sure which one of the three is doing it, or it could be all three. All I know is that I often feel a little brain fog after consuming it, and it immediately increases my body weight/bloat. Probably doesn't help either that OJ is a liquid, which I know I don't do well having a lot of. Will have to think how I can make up some of the nutrients that OJ has... or just not have as much jello as I have been.

I like the gelatin because it lowers my fernstrom ratio, but maybe I'll have to rely on the amino pro supplement to do that instead, if I can't make gelatin work for me. However what is interesting though is that my weight going to bed and weight waking up today was a lot more different than usual (Lost 1 more lb than I was expecting overnight), so perhaps even though the jello bloats me in the moment, ultimately lowers inflammation in the long run? Weird.
 
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Cirion

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Cut my jello intake by half yesterday, but increased overall calories and carbs to almost 1,100 grams. Lost 0.6 lb last night, though temp was only 97.9F waking up, but I felt better than usual after having some coffee, and I also had somewhat of a libido this morning. I suppose I won't complain too bad about the lower than desired temperature given that I lost weight, on 1100 grams of carbs lol.

I've now convinced myself that higher caloric dense foods are the superior choice for metabolism. I am having things like straight maple syrup, dried fruit when I want a quick boost to metabolism. I tested that last night, I woke up at like 4 am, had 1/2 cup of raisins and instantly my temperature went up to 98.4F because virtually all the carbs were instantly used for energy with nearly no waste due to the high energy density of raisins.
 

Bart1

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1100 carbs! Wow that’s insane! I wish I had your appetite... I’m also using organic maple syrup and honey. Both I react really well to. Fruit a lot of the time seem to enhance bloating. What are all your carb sources ?
 
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Cirion

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So guys I did something dumb this week, lol. So this past week I experimented with basically "eating any food I had appetite for" and that included lots of poor food choices like pufa laden pizza and also ended up eating way too many calories (even for me! and that's saying something lol) and did absolutely horrible in particular on Fri, & yesterday (Sat). Don't even ask, I'm an idiot, I already know LOL. Back on track now though, and what I did learn from this brief but silly experiment is that macros ABSOLUTELY matter and one way to mitigate the possible negative impact of protein and fats is just make sure carbs remain very high in comparison, which lets you increase fats and proteins a little if you feel like you need them also. Example: Let's say your ideal macros are 80C-10F-10P (which is roughly what it seems like it is for me, give or take a few % on each). Maybe you're currently eating let's say 4000 (as it was for me many days), but you find you're starving for protein and/or fats. In the past, I'd just eat more protein/fats but not increase carbs in the right proportions and I'd get in trouble. So I am thinking the % matters more than the absolute value of each macro a day because they balance each other out. Now I realize the key is probably to keep the %'s the same but just raise everything by that amount if more protein or fats is desired. For me, I think as long as carbs are sufficiently high (75-80% of diet) that I can increase calories pretty high and not run into issues. The issues arise when I get lazy and eat protein/fats because of feeling hungry, and not bring up carbs, and end up at like say 60% calories from carbs, which gets me into trouble because I end up with a much lower than ideal carb/protein and carb/fat ratios. I did that several times last week and paid the price. Conversely, I also found problems the week prior (as previously stated) when I increased carbs too much and did not increase protein and fats alongside of it. I find protein and fats absolutely are needed in some quantities, but there's a huge inverse U involved and the top of the U is very narrow, any less - problems, any more - problems. Also had my protein and fats almost all right at night time last night and that seemed to be beneficial for me. Carbs for energy during the day, protein and fats to slightly slow digestion and last the night blood sugar wise (still having carbs @ night also though). Today feeling 100x better than Saturday... thank God and gonna try not to let myself do any more stupid things moving forward LOL

1100 carbs! Wow that’s insane! I wish I had your appetite... I’m also using organic maple syrup and honey. Both I react really well to. Fruit a lot of the time seem to enhance bloating. What are all your carb sources ?


Haha, now I realize 1100 carb may be too much if its at the expense of any protein or fats, when I started to push 1200+ without the appropriate fats and protein behind it I really started to feel a bit off and my temps also suffered. Like I say, seems to be an upside down U of benefit for protein and fats and too little is also not great in the long term.

I am always experimenting (for better or worse, as you saw in my last paragraph LOL), but right now I've actually mostly ditched fruit since they are not calorie dense enough for my tastes and focus more on juice concentrates which is super calorie rich (to minimize the liquids), some mexi colas, usually coffee with maple syrup in morning, sometimes a little white rice. Sometimes dried fruits but they seem to hurt my teeth so lately I haven't had a lot of them. Out of all the juices, orange juice concentrate does seem to be the one I react to best too but also grape juice concentrate a lot. Also been playing with some naked juice / bolthouse farms juices to try to get a mix of some other fruits also. It's a little more liquid than I'd like, but they are pretty calorie rich and I seem to do OK on at least a few of the flavors.
 

Runenight201

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Lol I mean the one thing the eat whatever you want theory gets right is sufficient calories. But our food choices matter, the effects of rice and meat are different from milk and rice, or cheese and bread, or meat and bread. Eating “whatever I want” has me always falling back on rice, meat, and eggs as the stock of the diet. The foods are just so safe, warming, and easily digestible.

Glad to see you back on track =P I also rarely eat fruit now too. It tends to bloat and create some inflammation and brain fog. I enjoy apple juice though, it seems pretty clean in my experience. I like pairing soda with my meat, eggs, and rice meals, and then in between meals snacking on coffee, yerba mate, sugar, and fruit juice to keep energy up. Every now and then I dabble with the milk but you gotta be careful with that stuff!
 
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Cirion

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Lol I mean the one thing the eat whatever you want theory gets right is sufficient calories. But our food choices matter, the effects of rice and meat are different from milk and rice, or cheese and bread, or meat and bread. Eating “whatever I want” has me always falling back on rice, meat, and eggs as the stock of the diet. The foods are just so safe, warming, and easily digestible.

Glad to see you back on track =P I also rarely eat fruit now too. It tends to bloat and create some inflammation and brain fog. I enjoy apple juice though, it seems pretty clean in my experience. I like pairing soda with my meat, eggs, and rice meals, and then in between meals snacking on coffee, yerba mate, sugar, and fruit juice to keep energy up. Every now and then I dabble with the milk but you gotta be careful with that stuff!

Yes, I'm still 100% on board with lots of calories needed especially while still hypo. What I didn't respect enough is that the macro % breakdown absolutely matters a LOT. I must have 70-80% calories from carbs always to function properly. I now know this for pretty much a fact with how long I've tracked data now.

I don't have the bloating issue with fruit, or at least from grapes, but it got too tedious to eat 2 lb+ of grapes every day lol.

Yeah I like to have mexi colas with more "solid" foods also. Lately I have been eating only carbs during the day and saving my meat and fats for the evening meal, so actually, I am experimenting lately with only one "Meal" and carbs exclusively the rest of the day. I just always feel heavy, lethargic etc if I have meat and fats during the day and I hate how that feels. It feels right to me to bring about heavier foods at the end of the day when I no longer need to be energetic anyway and this helps induce sleep too.
 

ShotTrue

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How do you get near enough protein?
A general rule for active people has been 40% protein 40% carbs , though I could see carbs up to 60%. 80% sounds too low protein

I have been feeling better on high carb myself though, OJ, bread, cookies etc
 
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Cirion

Cirion

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How do you get near enough protein?
A general rule for active people has been 40% protein 40% carbs , though I could see carbs up to 60%. 80% sounds too low protein

I have been feeling better on high carb myself though, OJ, bread, cookies etc

Like I say, I take my macros and just scale up calories... Example here was yesterday:

upload_2019-6-30_17-38-50.png


I can go upwards of 15% protein and sometimes be OK also, in which case that would have brought me up to 180. 125 is more than plenty with a high total calorie intake too though.

40% protein is extreme overkill, especially for the active person. The active person doesn't really need more protein, but they do need more carbs. Excessive protein intake is completely unnecessary for almost everyone, even people who are taking steroids, except perhaps when they're in their initial mass build phase. Even people who are on steroids start to reach a point of diminishing returns with muscle building rate though.

Also, Ray has said the ideal carb to protein ratio is somewhere in the 2-3 range (I believe, don't have the quote handy). Personally, I need to be in the 6-8+ range.
 

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