My Journey To Optimal Health

[Cirion]

I determined over the weekend, and reading some topics here, plus a discussion I had with my coach Nate, that I need to limit my fructose intake.

I was eating lots of apples and pears, both with significantly more fructose than glucose. I noticed over the weekend despite having a great morning (98.5F on Sat), other than that I seemed to struggle. I also now believe all the fructose is probably contributing to my constant bloat / fatty liver. I even found myself disgusted with the apples I made and couldn't finish them, which I believe is my body telling me enough is enough with the fructose lol. I notice that excess of raisins cause me problems too. Again, probably the fructose. You can OD on fructose quite quickly with a package of raisins. You can OD on fructose quite easily on the RP diet in general. Today I brought a bunch of oranges and sweet potatos to work, both of which have about equal glucose to fructose. I seem to be doing better, and higher temps also (99.5F currently!). I believe that's enough to convince me. I'm probably gonna start eating more starch in general (although from quality sources) like Ezekiel bread and other sprouted sources.

Common sense would make me think that an "optimal" carbohydrate intake would be 1 : 1 : 1 fructose:glucose:starch ratios, taking care that starch that you intake is from quality sources like tubers and sprouted grains. I know RP doesn't like starch, but I only think starch is problematic when it is wheat or any of the other bad starches that is part of the standard American diet or anything not sprouted.

I also am going to do a no-caffeine experiment soon. Nate's chapter on GABA suggests that caffeine can seriously impede GABA production. My sleep is not yet optimal, although much improved since eliminating most EMF's in my sleeping environment. I usually only wake up once a night now. I am still being exposed to Electrical Fields from my CPAP though, which will be alleviated starting tonight once my 10 foot unheated hose arrives (the heated hose was blasting me with lots of electrical fields, no doubt impacting sleep). I am just going to insulate it to negate the need of electrical heating.

 

[Cirion]

Made an important discovery last night which verified some of my suspicions I believe.

I did sort of cheat though, I didn't have any sprouted rice to work with so I did a big no-no lol and had brown rice. I cooked a whole cup with a whole stick of butter, and later ate a whole pint of haagen dazs when I woke up in the middle of the night.

After the rice meal, I felt more energetic than I have in quite a while (which unfortunately made it hard to sleep at first lol), compared to how fructose tends to make me lethargic in too much quantities and also handily got 100+F temperature. In addition, with all the fat, I finally had a few nocturnal boners and even morning wood. I strongly believe dietary fat is critical for the male hormonal health. I was definitely dietary fat-deprived and glucose deprived also.

Only drawback is I note that I woke up this morning with dark circles under my eyes, which hasn't happened to me in a while. I think it is because of the unsprouted brown rice probably triggering some endotoxin. Also may be because my sleep was sub-optimal (took me a while to get to sleep).

 

[Jsaute21]

Made an important discovery last night which verified some of my suspicions I believe.

I did sort of cheat though, I didn't have any sprouted rice to work with so I did a big no-no lol and had brown rice. I cooked a whole cup with a whole stick of butter, and later ate a whole pint of haagen dazs when I woke up in the middle of the night.

After the rice meal, I felt more energetic than I have in quite a while (which unfortunately made it hard to sleep at first lol), compared to how fructose tends to make me lethargic in too much quantities and also handily got 100+F temperature. In addition, with all the fat, I finally had a few nocturnal boners and even morning wood. I strongly believe dietary fat is critical for the male hormonal health. I was definitely dietary fat-deprived and glucose deprived also.

Only drawback is I note that I woke up this morning with dark circles under my eyes, which hasn't happened to me in a while. I think it is because of the unsprouted brown rice probably triggering some endotoxin. Also may be because my sleep was sub-optimal (took me a while to get to sleep).

Good observations. I also do much better with good healthy saturated fat sources in my diet. I think it is important not to stress if you eat a shitty meal once in a while. I know it temporarily halts recovery but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. I eat pizza or pasta at least once a week and it certainly doesn't kill me.

 

[Cirion]

Unfortunately, after having some white rice last evening, I didn't get the same benefits and actually got worse.

I think RP is right about starch... sometimes we have to learn the hard way lol... I got a nice allergic reaction this go around, sniffy nose, scratchy throat, dry mouth... and none of the benefits this time, zero nocturnal wood / no morning wood.

Rp does this popular quote that goes something like this: "For those especially hypothyroid with gut issues, starch should be zero."

I'll give it one more go with starch, this time using proper sprouted starch, and if I still get the same reaction, then I have to scratch starch off of my list of acceptable foods, sadly. I have some sprouted quinoa, but I don't really like quinoa, lol.

But, the importance of glucose still stands. I seem to do better with higher glucose fruits for sure.

Part of my problems too is during the work week I just can not for the life of me get enough sleep. I can never get to bed early even when I physically go to bed early, and so it is impossible to wake up early and have enough sleep. I'm basically hypothyroid for the whole day if I start the day tired but nothing I can do about it really.

Ironically, after finally eliminating electric fields from my bed, I actually have a harder time falling asleep than before. That isn't to say having EF's is a good thing in your bed, just that the EF's probably induced a torpor/coma so it did help me fall asleep, but the quality of sleep wasn't great. I wish I had a yard so I could experiment sleeping in nature. I think the earth gives off beneficial EMF's now based upon my researching, that is healthful to sleep in. Skipping the science (that I don't fully understand anyway), unnatural EMF's disturb processes in your body (leaky gut, leaky blood brain barrier, clumping of red blood cells) whereas natural EMF's probably do the opposite... (fix gut, fix BBB, correct red blood cell derangements) which would then promote healing of all sorts of disorders. When I think about it that way, it seems almost mandatory to get more nature in order to fix my gut...

 

[InChristAlone]

Unfortunately, after having some white rice last evening, I didn't get the same benefits and actually got worse.

I think RP is right about starch... sometimes we have to learn the hard way lol... I got a nice allergic reaction this go around, sniffy nose, scratchy throat, dry mouth... and none of the benefits this time, zero nocturnal wood / no morning wood.

Rp does this popular quote that goes something like this: "For those especially hypothyroid with gut issues, starch should be zero."

I'll give it one more go with starch, this time using proper sprouted starch, and if I still get the same reaction, then I have to scratch starch off of my list of acceptable foods, sadly. I have some sprouted quinoa, but I don't really like quinoa, lol.

But, the importance of glucose still stands. I seem to do better with higher glucose fruits for sure.

Part of my problems too is during the work week I just can not for the life of me get enough sleep. I can never get to bed early even when I physically go to bed early, and so it is impossible to wake up early and have enough sleep. I'm basically hypothyroid for the whole day if I start the day tired but nothing I can do about it really.

Ironically, after finally eliminating electric fields from my bed, I actually have a harder time falling asleep than before. That isn't to say having EF's is a good thing in your bed, just that the EF's probably induced a torpor/coma so it did help me fall asleep, but the quality of sleep wasn't great. I wish I had a yard so I could experiment sleeping in nature. I think the earth gives off beneficial EMF's now based upon my researching, that is healthful to sleep in. Skipping the science (that I don't fully understand anyway), unnatural EMF's disturb processes in your body (leaky gut, leaky blood brain barrier, clumping of red blood cells) whereas natural EMF's probably do the opposite... (fix gut, fix BBB, correct red blood cell derangements) which would then promote healing of all sorts of disorders. When I think about it that way, it seems almost mandatory to get more nature in order to fix my gut...

I've been seeing you say you get very high temperatures. I wonder if this is going to be a good thing in the long run? You could be crashing yourself. So while it feels good in the moment it doesn't last and might cause a burnout condition if you can't keep up with it. When I had a thyroid problem I would literally wake up with 98.7 temp. It wouldn't even go down after a meal! I couldn't sleep, I was anxious, exhausted, and feeling like I was burning the candle at both ends. I am now stable at 98.6 and go down at night and sleep very well even with WiFi all around me. Even with gluten. Even junk food. Regulate your nervous system, regulate your body temp, regulate your blood sugar and you can heal.

 

[TeaRex14]

Achieving optimal health is easier said then done, simply because I think when the word "optimal" is used instead of just "great" or "good" we now have to include other aspects of the subject's lifestyle not just the diet. Good health, maybe even great health, can be achieved by optimal nutrition. But optimal health? I would think not only optimal nutrition is required but also optimal sleep, optimal light exposure, healthy social relationships, healthy sex life, over all sense of purpose, etc. My own personal journey with nutrition was a struggle as well. I actually think the Standard American Diet (SAD) is healthier then any sort of low carb hybrid diet. I did the whole low carb thing for a few years and lost some weight, but felt horrible. I even started developing some complications, the worst of which was a terrible breathing problem. For a while I didn't attribute it to the diet, thinking I was just getting asthma or something (runs in the family). I found out it was the diet when I was basically forced into a social event at a restaurant. I ate some "sub optimal" food full of carbohydrates and never felt better in my life, lol. The "asthma" like symptoms completely disappeared. That was when I made some changes, I started doing the whole Weston Price protocol. I felt much better doing this, and started researching similar approaches like the Perfect Health Diet (PHD) and the GAPS diet. Even to this day I still think WAPF, PHD, and GAPS are vastly better then most other alternative diets out there. They don't really focus on low carb intake or low salt intake or anything of the sort. But the way I found out about Ray Peat was reading an article on the WAPF website about Mary Enig interviewing Ray Peat about polyunsaturated fats. Of course the WAPF tried to spin the whole narrative to make Peat look wrong and incorrect. But what got me interested in his work was looking at how much blow back that interview got. Several people commented in Ray's defense. So I figured I needed to dig deeper. Been doing a Peaty inspired nutritional plan ever since.

 

[Cirion]

I've been seeing you say you get very high temperatures. I wonder if this is going to be a good thing in the long run? You could be crashing yourself. So while it feels good in the moment it doesn't last and might cause a burnout condition if you can't keep up with it. When I had a thyroid problem I would literally wake up with 98.7 temp. It wouldn't even go down after a meal! I couldn't sleep, I was anxious, exhausted, and feeling like I was burning the candle at both ends. I am now stable at 98.6 and go down at night and sleep very well even with WiFi all around me. Even with gluten. Even junk food. Regulate your nervous system, regulate your body temp, regulate your blood sugar and you can heal.

I definitely almost never wake up with a 98.7 temp. I've only achieved 98.5+ once or twice and thought I had finally achieved victory only to have a low temp the next morning. It could very well be that starch stimulates the metabolism too much (which would be in line with Ray's saying that glucose rises rapidly from starch and falls quickly), so maybe anything too much higher than 100 may be too much possibly. Usually I don't get more than 99-99.5 from sugar, so that's probably more the ideal temperature to get after a meal.

Really the only way for me to achieve high waking temp is to get a LOT of sleep, which is next to impossible while holding a job, so I really don't know how to get healed while holding a job? Many people here, like Haidut, had to quit their job to heal, but quitting my job isn't an option for me except as a last resort. I started to get better when I had 5 days off for thanksgiving, only to backpedal the next work day when I got sleep deprived again. The problem is I have essentially delayed-sleep phase syndrome, which means it's impossible for me to get to sleep early, because I always want to fall asleep at least 15 minutes later each following day regardless of blue light blocker glasses or whatever.

Why do you want to go below 98.6? Do you wake up refreshed? What is your waking temp? How do I regulate my body temp/sugar at night when I'm asleep, easier said than done? I can't hold glucose for more than 3-4 hrs, and the amount of food I have to eat to keep from dropping below 98.6 is crazy, or to even have a prayer of lasting even 4 hrs in the night without stress reactions, which makes it impossible to keep a healthy weight also.

Achieving optimal health is easier said then done, simply because I think when the word "optimal" is used instead of just "great" or "good" we now have to include other aspects of the subject's lifestyle not just the diet. Good health, maybe even great health, can be achieved by optimal nutrition. But optimal health? I would think not only optimal nutrition is required but also optimal sleep, optimal light exposure, healthy social relationships, healthy sex life, over all sense of purpose, etc. My own personal journey with nutrition was a struggle as well. I actually think the Standard American Diet (SAD) is healthier then any sort of low carb hybrid diet. I did the whole low carb thing for a few years and lost some weight, but felt horrible. I even started developing some complications, the worst of which was a terrible breathing problem. For a while I didn't attribute it to the diet, thinking I was just getting asthma or something (runs in the family). I found out it was the diet when I was basically forced into a social event at a restaurant. I ate some "sub optimal" food full of carbohydrates and never felt better in my life, lol. The "asthma" like symptoms completely disappeared. That was when I made some changes, I started doing the whole Weston Price protocol. I felt much better doing this, and started researching similar approaches like the Perfect Health Diet (PHD) and the GAPS diet. Even to this day I still think WAPF, PHD, and GAPS are vastly better then most other alternative diets out there. They don't really focus on low carb intake or low salt intake or anything of the sort. But the way I found out about Ray Peat was reading an article on the WAPF website about Mary Enig interviewing Ray Peat about polyunsaturated fats. Of course the WAPF tried to spin the whole narrative to make Peat look wrong and incorrect. But what got me interested in his work was looking at how much blow back that interview got. Several people commented in Ray's defense. So I figured I needed to dig deeper. Been doing a Peaty inspired nutritional plan ever since.

Oh yeah I pretty much agree with all you said, I'm trying to improve all areas of my life as much as I can. The one thing that has literally been a struggle my entire life is with the relationships/sex part. I have zero motivation to have a social life let alone a love life currently. In the past when I did manage to have a gf for a few months, it was only because I was in a brief period of my life where I actually was healthy and did have social motivation, but that's since gone now that I've lost my health and even though my temps and pulses are good, that motivation still is non-existent. I can't even remember the last time I went out to a social event, probably 6 months ago to a friends' wedding and that's about it. I'm always fatigued so the motivation just isn't there, I always just want to relax and go to bed after work and on weekends. I would agree the SAD is better than low carb, but only just barely. The SAD diet results in extreme lethargy and lack of motivation for me, huge energy crashes after meals. PUFA + starch + fat is a very bad combination for the thyroid.

Light exposure is basically impossible too, since I am indoors all day with the worst possible light (flourescant). I'm thinking of buying and bringing a red light / IR lamp or something to work because it drives me crazy.

Nate suggested if I want to consider trying to lose some of this body fat in a healthy manner if I get desperate enough is to take thyroid while on a low-fat diet. The key is to take thyroid while on low-fat because you need dietary fat to make hormones, so this helps buffer against low-fat metabolism damage.

 

[InChristAlone]

Read through this website about fixing low body temp it will answer all of your questions including why being stuck at a high temp isn't good either and results in insomnia.
http://www.fixlowbodytemp.com/papers/LowTemp.htm

There is also a discussion about it on this forum.

 

[Cirion]

That's a really long document that looks interesting so I'll read it later. Thanks for the link.

The comment on too high body temp is noted and may very well be why I struggled the last two nights to sleep if I bumped my temp to 100+ before trying to go to bed. My thing is I want to have enough food to last the night though, so I guess if body temp is 98.6 before bed that's considered sufficient food? I just worry I will wake up every 2-3 hrs without enough food at night in particular.

I don't have a problem getting or even keeping my temp up for the most part anymore, but I still don't feel too good even at 98.6, UNLESS I had a good nights' sleep the night prior, this seems to be my major stumbling block now. How good my sleep was the night prior sets my mood for the entire next day. So it's a vicious cycle for me... What I can't seem to do is get my body temp to regulate itself during the night.

I really quickly glossed over the link. I did learn one new interesting thing, dressing warmly. I have noticed the last few days I have effortlessly maintained 99+F during the day, and I think it's because I'm dressing warm and they really crank up the heat in the office, uncomfortably so, lol. Jack Kruse is a big believer in dressing warm too, from what I've read over there, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe this is why my temps struggle on the weekend when I'm lounging around? I tend to wear little or even nothing and tend to keep temperatures on the cool side since I hate being hot. Now I realize that may be working against me. So keeping temps cool while also eating cold fruits / OJ... no wonder I've been having issues.

Once again I like to go back to the example of how people in Hawaii and other tropical places are always the healthiest. It's kind of hard to be low body temp when its like always 90+ outside and sunny lol. Plus you're always grounded to the earth a lot, and get lots of sun.

I do recall awhile back someone posting here and saying he started dressing super warm during the night and it helped him have a high waking temp (98.6). I keep saying I'll try that but I always get so uncomfortably hot to where I can't sleep... I always have to put my thermostat to low 60's to sleep well... also as a male I have the unique problem that if the gonads are too hot, it basically sterilizes them no? I don't want that... lol. Plus most of our testosterone for the next day is generated at night right?

Even though my temp is high during the day using the warm clothing trick, I still have excessive fatigue though...

 

[InChristAlone]

That's a really long document that looks interesting so I'll read it later. Thanks for the link.

The comment on too high body temp is noted and may very well be why I struggled the last two nights to sleep if I bumped my temp to 100+ before trying to go to bed. My thing is I want to have enough food to last the night though, so I guess if body temp is 98.6 before bed that's considered sufficient food? I just worry I will wake up every 2-3 hrs without enough food at night in particular.

I don't have a problem getting or even keeping my temp up for the most part anymore, but I still don't feel too good even at 98.6, UNLESS I had a good nights' sleep the night prior, this seems to be my major stumbling block now. How good my sleep was the night prior sets my mood for the entire next day. So it's a vicious cycle for me... What I can't seem to do is get my body temp to regulate itself during the night.

I really quickly glossed over the link. I did learn one new interesting thing, dressing warmly. I have noticed the last few days I have effortlessly maintained 99+F during the day, and I think it's because I'm dressing warm and they really crank up the heat in the office, uncomfortably so, lol. Jack Kruse is a big believer in dressing warm too, from what I've read over there, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe this is why my temps struggle on the weekend when I'm lounging around? I tend to wear little or even nothing and tend to keep temperatures on the cool side since I hate being hot. Now I realize that may be working against me. So keeping temps cool while also eating cold fruits / OJ... no wonder I've been having issues.

Once again I like to go back to the example of how people in Hawaii and other tropical places are always the healthiest. It's kind of hard to be low body temp when its like always 90+ outside and sunny lol. Plus you're always grounded to the earth a lot, and get lots of sun.

I do recall awhile back someone posting here and saying he started dressing super warm during the night and it helped him have a high waking temp (98.6). I keep saying I'll try that but I always get so uncomfortably hot to where I can't sleep... I always have to put my thermostat to low 60's to sleep well... also as a male I have the unique problem that if the gonads are too hot, it basically sterilizes them no? I don't want that... lol. Plus most of our testosterone for the next day is generated at night right?

Even though my temp is high during the day using the warm clothing trick, I still have excessive fatigue though...

It's been so long since I researched all this but I did read through his webpage really quickly so that I could be more helpful if you asked. He mentions that if you don't have a normal temp and if it does go too low say at night (he says a good temp for sleeping is 97.4) then you may feel too hot even though your temp is not. And then that just screws everything up because you'll dress too lightly and the cycle continues and you won't be able to tolerate sleeping warm. Well actually he talks more about daytime, but I'm sure you could apply to nighttime. Do you know how low it dips at night?

I used to need sugar throughout the night too before I was more regulated. Sooooo glad that's over. I didn't really do anything in particular other than de stressing stuff trying to get to sleep before midnight blocking blue light. And slowly training my body to switch to beta oxidation. Using carbs day and night is not normal. Liver glycogen can only go so far. I am not positive I use beta oxidation but I think so since even if I eat 1700 calories I don't need to eat at night. If I really don't eat enough then I will wake up but I can fall back to sleep without food. Enough saturated fats are essential if you do want to fast 12 hrs.

 

[Blossom]

That's a really long document that looks interesting so I'll read it later. Thanks for the link.

The comment on too high body temp is noted and may very well be why I struggled the last two nights to sleep if I bumped my temp to 100+ before trying to go to bed. My thing is I want to have enough food to last the night though, so I guess if body temp is 98.6 before bed that's considered sufficient food? I just worry I will wake up every 2-3 hrs without enough food at night in particular.

I don't have a problem getting or even keeping my temp up for the most part anymore, but I still don't feel too good even at 98.6, UNLESS I had a good nights' sleep the night prior, this seems to be my major stumbling block now. How good my sleep was the night prior sets my mood for the entire next day. So it's a vicious cycle for me... What I can't seem to do is get my body temp to regulate itself during the night.

I really quickly glossed over the link. I did learn one new interesting thing, dressing warmly. I have noticed the last few days I have effortlessly maintained 99+F during the day, and I think it's because I'm dressing warm and they really crank up the heat in the office, uncomfortably so, lol. Jack Kruse is a big believer in dressing warm too, from what I've read over there, so maybe there is something to that. Maybe this is why my temps struggle on the weekend when I'm lounging around? I tend to wear little or even nothing and tend to keep temperatures on the cool side since I hate being hot. Now I realize that may be working against me. So keeping temps cool while also eating cold fruits / OJ... no wonder I've been having issues.

Once again I like to go back to the example of how people in Hawaii and other tropical places are always the healthiest. It's kind of hard to be low body temp when its like always 90+ outside and sunny lol. Plus you're always grounded to the earth a lot, and get lots of sun.

I do recall awhile back someone posting here and saying he started dressing super warm during the night and it helped him have a high waking temp (98.6). I keep saying I'll try that but I always get so uncomfortably hot to where I can't sleep... I always have to put my thermostat to low 60's to sleep well... also as a male I have the unique problem that if the gonads are too hot, it basically sterilizes them no? I don't want that... lol. Plus most of our testosterone for the next day is generated at night right?

Even though my temp is high during the day using the warm clothing trick, I still have excessive fatigue though...

It’s okay and some would argue it’s normal for your temperature to begin to decrease a little in the evening as part of the circadian rhythm. That’s part of what helps us sleep. As far as I know you should wake up slightly below 98.6 and peak in temperature sometime in the afternoon and then gradually decline a bit before sleeping. If you have different information that’s cool. I just don’t think it means you are hypo or not healing if you wake up a bit below 98.6 or are slightly lower than that at bedtime.

 

[Cirion]

It's been so long since I researched all this but I did read through his webpage really quickly so that I could be more helpful if you asked. He mentions that if you don't have a normal temp and if it does go too low say at night (he says a good temp for sleeping is 97.4) then you may feel too hot even though your temp is not. And then that just screws everything up because you'll dress too lightly and the cycle continues and you won't be able to tolerate sleeping warm. Well actually he talks more about daytime, but I'm sure you could apply to nighttime. Do you know how low it dips at night?

I used to need sugar throughout the night too before I was more regulated. Sooooo glad that's over. I didn't really do anything in particular other than de stressing stuff trying to get to sleep before midnight blocking blue light. And slowly training my body to switch to beta oxidation. Using carbs day and night is not normal. Liver glycogen can only go so far. I am not positive I use beta oxidation but I think so since even if I eat 1700 calories I don't need to eat at night. If I really don't eat enough then I will wake up but I can fall back to sleep without food. Enough saturated fats are essential if you do want to fast 12 hrs.

Nate hatch told me a similar thing (feeling hot at night is actually body dumping heat) makes sense. I was just monitoring at my desk here and noted that "I felt hot" if I was significantly over 98.6 deg and cooled off by having some water and stopped feeling hot at around 98.8F.

Makes sense with the cycle. That's probably my problem. I'll try to sleep warm, wake up in the middle of the night sweating, throw off a layer of clothing / covers, until by the end of the night I may have brought down the thermostat as low as 60 deg and have a very light blanket. This happens like every night now.

I do not know how low it gets unfortunately. I don't think it gets below 97 but I could be wrong. So you eat carbs during day and eat most your fats in the evening? I definitely notice that carbs alone at night time is fruitless (lol, pun not really intended). I'll have a glass of OJ and wake up literally an hour later if I try to go that route.

Thanks for the help, I think you provided to me another piece of the puzzle that I've been missing.

One final question - do you think sleeping in a dark room is detrimental for regulating body temps? (Since the body can't "tell" it is daylight easily) Should I at least invest in a light alarm? I have one but lost the cable for it... doh

It’s okay and some would argue it’s normal for your temperature to begin to decrease a little in the evening as part of the circadian rhythm. That’s part of what helps us sleep. As far as I know you should wake up slightly below 98.6 and peak in temperature sometime in the afternoon and then gradually decline a bit before sleeping. If you have different information that’s cool. I just don’t think it means you are hypo or not healing if you wake up a bit below 98.6 or are slightly lower than that at bedtime.

All I know is that I literally never wake up refreshed which can't be normal, regardless of temperature. I use how I feel ultimately as my gauge for being hypothyroid (fatigued a lot, crappy sleep, low libido etc...) Blah. Lol

Brain fog: A condition of impaired thinking ability, that even very healthy people typically have when they first wake up, that is very similar to being a little drunk. Even the least affected low temp people are typically functioning as though they already had one drink when they are at their highest 98.0oF temperature. This is most easily measured in apparently equivalent alcoholic drinks. Hence, a normal healthy person might have level-2 brain fog when they first wake up. A typical low temp person at 96.8oF, who feels like he has had a couple of drinks, would have level-3 brain fog (because what he thinks is no brain fog at 98.0oF is really at least level-1 brain fog).

I don't think I agree with this quote specifically the underlined section. I've had times where I was definitely healthy, I had absolutely zero brain fog upon waking up, and started my day with perfect energy and clarity even right after waking, and no it was not adrenaline because it was "Clean" energy. Like on the weekends when I had perfect sleep and got a 98.5 waking temp. That's the kind of health that I want, the kind where I have perfect energy from wake up to bed and sleep perfectly.

 

[InChristAlone]

Nate hatch told me a similar thing (feeling hot at night is actually body dumping heat) makes sense. I was just monitoring at my desk here and noted that "I felt hot" if I was significantly over 98.6 deg and cooled off by having some water and stopped feeling hot at around 98.8F.

Makes sense with the cycle. That's probably my problem. I'll try to sleep warm, wake up in the middle of the night sweating, throw off a layer of clothing / covers, until by the end of the night I may have brought down the thermostat as low as 60 deg and have a very light blanket. This happens like every night now.

I do not know how low it gets unfortunately. I don't think it gets below 97 but I could be wrong. So you eat carbs during day and eat most your fats in the evening? I definitely notice that carbs alone at night time is fruitless (lol, pun not really intended). I'll have a glass of OJ and wake up literally an hour later if I try to go that route.

Thanks for the help, I think you provided to me another piece of the puzzle that I've been missing.

One final question - do you think sleeping in a dark room is detrimental for regulating body temps? (Since the body can't "tell" it is daylight easily) Should I at least invest in a light alarm? I have one but lost the cable for it... doh



All I know is that I literally never wake up refreshed which can't be normal, regardless of temperature. I use how I feel ultimately as my gauge for being hypothyroid (fatigued a lot, crappy sleep, low libido etc...) Blah. Lol



I don't think I agree with this quote specifically the underlined section. I've had times where I was definitely healthy, I had absolutely zero brain fog upon waking up, and started my day with perfect energy and clarity even right after waking, and no it was not adrenaline because it was "Clean" energy. Like on the weekends when I had perfect sleep and got a 98.5 waking temp. That's the kind of health that I want, the kind where I have perfect energy from wake up to bed and sleep perfectly.

Yes omg yes! I remember due to the recommendation by a practitioner named Zachariah that I should do 4:1 carbs to protein ratio and that would help me handle protein better and not have adrenaline rushes, well one day before bed I had Greek yogurt which is loaded with protein so I did the 4:1 which turned out to be so much sugar and I had one of the worst nights, that sugar lasted all of like 2 hrs. Then it was adrenaline all night. I probably did a lot of my healing by using haagen dazs before bed. I don't need it anymore though. But I always eat roughly 34% of my calories fat. Not everyone has these results though. I was almost convinced that fat caused anxiety attacks and was going to go low fat but I'm glad I didn't. I'd probably still be trying to figure out my health problems.

I think you shouldn't using the heat lamp before bed and then sleeping dark. Peat has said that it's better to just use very bright light for several minutes than to just have a lower watt light on all the time. He does think darkness is a stress but I think most people say darkness is essential for circadian rhythm.

 

[TeaRex14]

Oh yeah I pretty much agree with all you said, I'm trying to improve all areas of my life as much as I can. The one thing that has literally been a struggle my entire life is with the relationships/sex part. I have zero motivation to have a social life let alone a love life currently. In the past when I did manage to have a gf for a few months, it was only because I was in a brief period of my life where I actually was healthy and did have social motivation, but that's since gone now that I've lost my health and even though my temps and pulses are good, that motivation still is non-existent. I can't even remember the last time I went out to a social event, probably 6 months ago to a friends' wedding and that's about it. I'm always fatigued so the motivation just isn't there, I always just want to relax and go to bed after work and on weekends. I would agree the SAD is better than low carb, but only just barely. The SAD diet results in extreme lethargy and lack of motivation for me, huge energy crashes after meals. PUFA + starch + fat is a very bad combination for the thyroid.

It can be tough. I'm currently not seeing anyone either, I find it hard to date and see people when I expose myself to not just the possibility, but the probability, of inferior environments and inferior nutrition. Best thing to do is find someone who shares enthusiasm with improving their health. Yeah SAD is pretty bad, it made me fat. I just thought that personally the low carb approach was slightly worse because it gave me all sorts of nagging and very uncomfortable health aliments. For others low carb might not be as bad as it was for me.

Light exposure is basically impossible too, since I am indoors all day with the worst possible light (flourescant). I'm thinking of buying and bringing a red light / IR lamp or something to work because it drives me crazy.

This is a BIG one for me. I honestly believe the majority of western civilization is probably light deficient. It's so important for metabolism, the typical westerner sits in their cubical 8 hours a day without much if any quality sunlight exposure. After I started making an effort to get at least 3 to 4 hours of sunlight everyday during the summer I didn't even need my thyroid supplement anymore. Problem with sunlight is it can be seasonal. I don't get very much sun during the winter, just doesn't shine often. Can confirm red light is a really good replacement if sun isn't available though. I don't think it's quite as powerful as sunlight, but it does increase cellular respiration and oxidative metabolism. I get a good calm but energized feeling from enough red light exposure.

Nate suggested if I want to consider trying to lose some of this body fat in a healthy manner if I get desperate enough is to take thyroid while on a low-fat diet. The key is to take thyroid while on low-fat because you need dietary fat to make hormones, so this helps buffer against low-fat metabolism damage.

That's probably a good idea. In fact most people in today world probably need thyroid supplementation given our sub-optimal lifestyles. Many people take the synthetic stuff now, but I'm still a fan of the good old natural desiccated stuff (Thyroid-S). I've also found if I eat nothing but refined coconut oil with my otherwise low-fat high sugar diet I won't experience any weight loss stalling. So maybe you wouldn't have to sacrifice hormone production. I prefer the non-hydrogenated stuff, just what I'm use to. The PUFA content is like 3 grams per 1 cup of oil, but I never use 1 cup of oil. Refined coconut oil and very small amounts of butter don't put any fat on me no matter how much sugar I eat, so might be worth a try.

 

[Runenight201]

For what it's worth, I don't think starch is inherently bad, but it depends on the quantity to which you include it in your diet.

Too much will most definitely bloat, and for hypothyroid people, it's just impossible to gain sufficient calories from starch without causing severe gastrointestinal distress.

Starch is definitely good in the diet though, and I have found yucca, potatoes, white rice, and corn tortillas to be part of my rotational staples as of late. However, it is probably only about 100-200 calories worth of food at each meal, with the main source of calories coming from fish (cod and salmon are amazing), meat, eggs, dairy, and fruit/sugars. After enough trial and error, I've gotten to the point where I can eyeball how much meat, starch, and fat I should have on my plate depending on my current hunger levels and cravings. Fish and chicken need a little extra butter for optimal taste and satiation, skirt steak and pork chops can be eaten as is. Leftover meat goes to the dog and the leftover starch in the trash. Eggs are anywhere from 3-6 a day (crucial for feelings of strength, confidence, well-being, and most definite increase in semen quality), and the key to it all.....HOT CHOCOLATE WITH WHITE BREAD IN THE MORNING. This has been my favorite morning go-to, heated whole milk with a couple pieces of melted dark chocolate mixed with sugar, dip the bread until I've had enough.

Lentils are also a quality food in my experience. They constitute maybe 100-300 calories a day worth of food, and only when I crave them, but they satiate my stomach in a way that at times no other food will. I've also found success with straight honey/maple syrup in about 100 calorie servings as desserts after certain meals (only when I feel that I need calories but my stomach is at capacity).

Soda is consumed with lunch/dinner, with either Jarritos strawberry soda or Mexican cola. Fruit and fruit juices consumed ad libitum depending on craving and need. A cup of coffee after each meal a day.

Organ meat once a week, which I plan on rotating between liver, brain, and heart.

Eating this way has greatly improved my quality of life, and I'm finally feeling the consistent urge to learn and develop and grow, with less apathy, stress, and anxiety. Right now everything is factory farmed because unfortunately that's all I can afford, but now that I've figured out what I want to do career wise and I start making money again, I plan on purchasing everything grass-fed/pastured (cant wait for that raw goat milk =P).

Only sharing this in case you or anyone else want to take ideas from it. It's been a painstakingly long health journey and I definitely hurt my career to figure this out, but it was necessary to save myself from the tragedy of depression, anxiety, and lower quality of life. Not quite sure how to pitch this to future employers...because the year long break in my resume needs to be explained somehow, but as long as I can convince the coach to put me back in, I'll eat up the competition X.X

 

[Nighteyes]

HOT CHOCOLATE WITH WHITE BREAD IN THE MORNING. This has been my favorite morning go-to, heated whole milk with a couple pieces of melted dark chocolate mixed with sugar, dip the bread until I've had enough.

Omg ultimate morning comfort-food. Might try this with my whole sheeps milk. Will be good for the northern winter months

 

[Cirion]

Temp was 97.7 at around 2 am when I woke up, and 98.0 this morning upon waking.

I don't know if I'm convinced wearing warm clothes to achieve warm temperatures is working... I just feel tired all the time now, even though I'm keeping a high temperature. It seems to me that wearing warm clothes is like a "cheat code" to get warm and doesn't actually address the sluggish metabolism? I'm extremely tired today after sleeping warm, and even coffee did nothing for me, in fact coffee this morning made me want to go back to bed... I just wanna fall asleep at my desk at work.

Then again, warm clothing / environments has had this effect on me my whole life, which is why I tend to avoid warm environments, warm clothing, heating in homes as much as I can, so maybe I've been basically hypothyroid / adrenal fatigued my whole life? A warm dark room in college was the worst and the quickest way to make me pass out.

Maybe I have been addicted to cold because cold stimulates adrenaline which = energy (but not a good form of it)?

People with low body temperatures must often avoid dressing warmly, because they both keep themselves going and keep themselves warm with adrenaline. If they warm themselves up by other means such as warm clothing, then they shut down their adrenaline supply and crash into chronic fatigue. However, once their body temperature has been reset back up to 98.6oF, they have no problem dressing warmly, because they can keep going just fine at 98.6oF without adrenaline.

I guess this is what is happening to me. How do you fix adrenal fatigue then? Just takes time? And avoiding stress? I'm going to skip coffee this weekend and other stress inducers.

Yes omg yes! I remember due to the recommendation by a practitioner named Zachariah that I should do 4:1 carbs to protein ratio and that would help me handle protein better and not have adrenaline rushes, well one day before bed I had Greek yogurt which is loaded with protein so I did the 4:1 which turned out to be so much sugar and I had one of the worst nights, that sugar lasted all of like 2 hrs. Then it was adrenaline all night. I probably did a lot of my healing by using haagen dazs before bed. I don't need it anymore though. But I always eat roughly 34% of my calories fat. Not everyone has these results though. I was almost convinced that fat caused anxiety attacks and was going to go low fat but I'm glad I didn't. I'd probably still be trying to figure out my health problems.

I think you shouldn't using the heat lamp before bed and then sleeping dark. Peat has said that it's better to just use very bright light for several minutes than to just have a lower watt light on all the time. He does think darkness is a stress but I think most people say darkness is essential for circadian rhythm.

I agree you need a lot more carbs than protein, but yeah, if I don't have enough saturated fat to buffer that sugar it won't get you very far, satiation wise, and I get the same problems as you. I also think you need at least 1/3 calorie from fat, that's been my experience as well. Any lower than that and my libido in particular drops to zero basically. Low fat is the worst. I honestly don't see how people around here can go low fat - which, isn't very many people (I only know like two-three forum members that claim to do well on low/zero fat).

My question regarding the lamp was, should I use an alarm that also activates a light in the morning? If indeed light is the bodys' trigger to start raising body temperature in preparation for waking up?

 

[InChristAlone]

Temp was 97.7 at around 2 am when I woke up, and 98.0 this morning upon waking.

I don't know if I'm convinced wearing warm clothes to achieve warm temperatures is working... I just feel tired all the time now, even though I'm keeping a high temperature. It seems to me that wearing warm clothes is like a "cheat code" to get warm and doesn't actually address the sluggish metabolism? I'm extremely tired today after sleeping warm, and even coffee did nothing for me, in fact coffee this morning made me want to go back to bed... I just wanna fall asleep at my desk at work.

Then again, warm clothing / environments has had this effect on me my whole life, which is why I tend to avoid warm environments, warm clothing, heating in homes as much as I can, so maybe I've been basically hypothyroid / adrenal fatigued my whole life? A warm dark room in college was the worst and the quickest way to make me pass out.

Maybe I have been addicted to cold because cold stimulates adrenaline which = energy (but not a good form of it)?



I guess this is what is happening to me. How do you fix adrenal fatigue then? Just takes time? And avoiding stress? I'm going to skip coffee this weekend and other stress inducers.



I agree you need a lot more carbs than protein, but yeah, if I don't have enough saturated fat to buffer that sugar it won't get you very far, satiation wise, and I get the same problems as you. I also think you need at least 1/3 calorie from fat, that's been my experience as well. Any lower than that and my libido in particular drops to zero basically. Low fat is the worst. I honestly don't see how people around here can go low fat - which, isn't very many people (I only know like two-three forum members that claim to do well on low/zero fat).

My question regarding the lamp was, should I use an alarm that also activates a light in the morning? If indeed light is the bodys' trigger to start raising body temperature in preparation for waking up?

It sounds like this is what's happening for you. Keeping warm shuts down the adrenaline and makes you sleepy. I know people who keep their apartment at like 64 or less because they hate the heat and one of them was diagnosed with MS at like 17. She will not age well unless she changes a lot of things. Elderly typically can't tolerate cold or heat. I prefer just hot enough. But I can sleep very warm and be fine. My health tends to be better when it is easy to keep my body warm. I feel best when toes are warm.

So I had a typo in my last comment, it should have said that you should do heat lamp before bed to kind of top up light while not going as far as causing revved up metabolism.

Sure using light to wake you up sounds like a great idea. I like to wake up naturally at the end of a sleep cycle.

 

[Jsaute21]

Temp was 97.7 at around 2 am when I woke up, and 98.0 this morning upon waking.

I don't know if I'm convinced wearing warm clothes to achieve warm temperatures is working... I just feel tired all the time now, even though I'm keeping a high temperature. It seems to me that wearing warm clothes is like a "cheat code" to get warm and doesn't actually address the sluggish metabolism? I'm extremely tired today after sleeping warm, and even coffee did nothing for me, in fact coffee this morning made me want to go back to bed... I just wanna fall asleep at my desk at work.

Then again, warm clothing / environments has had this effect on me my whole life, which is why I tend to avoid warm environments, warm clothing, heating in homes as much as I can, so maybe I've been basically hypothyroid / adrenal fatigued my whole life? A warm dark room in college was the worst and the quickest way to make me pass out.

Maybe I have been addicted to cold because cold stimulates adrenaline which = energy (but not a good form of it)?



I guess this is what is happening to me. How do you fix adrenal fatigue then? Just takes time? And avoiding stress? I'm going to skip coffee this weekend and other stress inducers.



I agree you need a lot more carbs than protein, but yeah, if I don't have enough saturated fat to buffer that sugar it won't get you very far, satiation wise, and I get the same problems as you. I also think you need at least 1/3 calorie from fat, that's been my experience as well. Any lower than that and my libido in particular drops to zero basically. Low fat is the worst. I honestly don't see how people around here can go low fat - which, isn't very many people (I only know like two-three forum members that claim to do well on low/zero fat).

My question regarding the lamp was, should I use an alarm that also activates a light in the morning? If indeed light is the bodys' trigger to start raising body temperature in preparation for waking up?

How has your experience been with iodine? I ordered some lugols and have experimented the past two days or so at an extremely conservative dose. Always hard to speculate whether something is placebo or not, but i feel worse on it so far.

 

[TeaRex14]

In a way, I wouldn't disagree with the notion of warm clothing being a "cheat code" as you put it. Because artificially warming your body up won't necessarily make you more sensitive to thyroid hormone on a cellular level. Hypothyroidism is like diabetes in this regard. A diabetic's problem generally isn't the fact they aren't producing enough insulin, it's the fact their cells aren't sensitized to the insulin. Same thing with hypothyroidism in people with under active metabolisms. You generally produce enough hormone, the problem is somewhere along the pathway the hormone is becoming blocked by unresponsive cells. This can take place in various areas, like the liver, transport proteins, etc. Simply wearing warm clothes won't change this. Nonclinical, or subclinical rather speaking, is the most abundant and apparent form of hypothyroidism in America. It's the most dangerous too, because you could go to the doctor and have T4 and T3 levels checked and they would be perfectly normal.