My CPTSD Has Rapidly And Consistently Dissolved After Implementing An IdeaLabs Protocol

[Cirion]

Gut health is also an inmense source of mental problems. The "pestilent vapours" of the intestines (the ancient medical way to say endotoxin) altering your mind.

Yes, and in fact I believe these are my main problems currently - beating my bloat. Luckily Hans gave me some great suggestions I'm going to try and I'm hopeful for them given that he says both he and his wife used to have bloat problems so I'm basically using his same protocols.

BTW sorry @Peatogenic if I'm derailing your thread.

 

[Peatogenic]

True, but when you're someone like me that has spent 95% of his life getting through life by "toughing it out" and "grit" and whatever else you wanna call it, I'm burned out and need the fix the root cause - hormones. Being healthy should be the norm of life, not the exception.

Nate has a long chapter on Depression in his book F*** portion control on the fact he did literally everything (massage, therapy, support groups, acupuncture, prayer, etc... everything non diet/hormone related) and nothing fixed his depression and other mental issues until he fixed his hormones.

Mental health problems are nothing more than an extension of the disturbed physical health (endocrine system) of the individual. I feel quite confident in saying 100% of people with mental health conditions (whether its bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, PTSD, whatever) have a disturbed thyroid / endocrine system, easily enough verified through hormone tests.

Just to be clear, I don't hold this view. I believe that external traumas cause many of these conditions for a lot of people. Yes, they are reflected by metabolic issues, but the metabolic issues don't just appear out of nowhere. Nevertheless, I believe that the primary (not only) way of addressing the original trauma is through physiological means. Some people dissociate from their trauma and have no memory of it. But their body does. How in the world are they going to process that trauma? Most Somatic therapists believe you don't even have to engage with the original trauma to heal it.

 

[InChristAlone]

True, but when you're someone like me that has spent 95% of his life getting through life by "toughing it out" and "grit" and whatever else you wanna call it, I'm burned out and need the fix the root cause - hormones. Being healthy should be the norm of life, not the exception.

Nate has a long chapter on Depression in his book F*** portion control on the fact he did literally everything (massage, therapy, support groups, acupuncture, prayer, etc... everything non diet/hormone related) and nothing fixed his depression and other mental issues until he fixed his hormones.

Mental health problems are nothing more than an extension of the disturbed physical health (endocrine system) of the individual. I feel quite confident in saying 100% of people with mental health conditions (whether its bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, PTSD, whatever) have a disturbed thyroid / endocrine system, easily enough verified through hormone tests.

I am reading his book, he has quite the emotional rollercoaster of a childhood. Which is probably what caused his thyroid cancer. He even said he comes from good stock. So it wasn't his genes as his genes are obviously very good. What comes first? The hormone derangement doesn't appear out of nowhere. Hans Selye says:

"Every stress leaves an indelible scar, and the organism pays for its survival after a stressful situation by becoming a little older."

"Mental tensions, frustrations, insecurity, aimlessness are among the most damaging stressors, and psychosomatic studies have shown how often they cause migraine headache, peptic ulcers, heart attacks, hypertension, mental disease, suicide, or just hopeless unhappiness."


Nathan also says his recovery from alcoholism was mainly from attending AA meetings.

So yes those with mental disorders are sick body and mind. The two go together like bread and butter.

 

[Cirion]

Just to be clear, I don't hold this view. I believe that external traumas cause many of these conditions for a lot of people. Yes, they are reflected by metabolic issues, but the metabolic issues don't just appear out of nowhere. Nevertheless, I believe that the primary (not only) way of addressing the original trauma is through physiological means.

I've read and re-read this like 6 times. I don't even see where we disagree lol. Alongside all disorders regardless of what it is metabolic dysfunction.The solution to said disorder is also cured by restoring metabolic function. I guess the one part we disagree is that I actually do believe metabolic issues can "appear out of nowhere" if the stressor is large enough and the thyroid gets completely overloaded and shuts down (Look at many older couples who, when their spouse dies, they usually die soon after, their older body can't handle the extreme stress of loss). In many cases, if there's not a single large stressor, it can be a build up of grievances against the body (chronic under sleeping, poor diet, basically small cumulative stressors).

 

[Peatogenic]

I've read and re-read this like 6 times. I don't even see where we disagree lol. Alongside all disorders regardless of what it is metabolic dysfunction.The solution to said disorder is also cured by restoring metabolic function. I guess the one part we disagree is that I actually do believe metabolic issues can "appear out of nowhere" if the stressor is large enough and the thyroid gets completely overloaded and shuts down.

You said that you believe all these mental disorders have a root cause of hormone issues. So, whatever you meant, I was just clarifying that my view is that the root cause is often a trauma. Or, in the subject matter of this post (CPTSD), it is. The intense and repeated stressor is the root problem. It often has a component of developing false thought conditioning as well (via abuse). These things are the root of CPTSD. I'd also argue that ancillary disorders like depression and anxiety are rooted in an environmental/developmental trauma, but it doesn't have to be. Trauma is the root. This root then causes the cascade of endocrine dysfunction. Just a point of clarification.

I think it's equally irresponsible to disregard situational/environmental/developmental roots as it is to disregard hormone roots. Because for some people, that's part of their holistic path of seeing new realities.

 

[Cirion]

Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with my best friend LOL I mean that in a nice way I hope that doesn't come across the wrong way though!! I say that because I'll have a 30 minute plus argument on the phone with him... only to find out that we actually agree LOL

I agree 100% that stress is the root cause which causes the endocrine dysfunction.

However, the body is not good at restoring endocrine function, in my experience. Even removing what caused the stress, usually will not restore the endocrine function, and usually only a physical solution will fully fix the endocrine system disruption. As @Janelle525 suggested

"Every stress leaves an indelible scar, and the organism pays for its survival after a stressful situation by becoming a little older."

"Mental tensions, frustrations, insecurity, aimlessness are among the most damaging stressors, and psychosomatic studies have shown how often they cause migraine headache, peptic ulcers, heart attacks, hypertension, mental disease, suicide, or just hopeless unhappiness."

The scar will not properly heal even once the stressor is removed. The damage is done. The endocrine system is ruined. It must be fixed.

Yes, mental symptoms accompany a physical problem and can cause a negative feedback loop. Breaking out of this negative feedback loop is the key, and I'm not convinced "positive thinking" has much permanent, long lasting impact on this as can be seen with the OP who spent 5 years trying things like this with merely limited success.

I think it's equally irresponsible to disregard situational/environmental/developmental roots as it is to disregard hormone roots. Because for some people, that's part of their holistic path of seeing new realities.

Never said to disregard environment. This is why I think we're arguing when in fact we're agreeing lol.

All I'm saying is that mental/physical health problems caused by stress of any kind (traumatic, cumulative small stressors, whatever) result in a disruption of the endocrine system and the ultimate goal should be the restoration of the endocrine system to achieve complete healing (also removing the stressor if there is one, and minimizing overall chronic exposure if caused by chronic exposures).

When I say that 100% of the resolution of the problem needs to come from physical means I'm referring to hormones. Certainly, sometimes improving the environment for example can also improve the hormones. And hormones are 100% a physical phenomenon that your body pumps out from your thyroid, not some nebulous concept that the mental health community tries to make it.

And with that I think I'm gonna peace out, I've derailed your topic too much, lol sorry.

 

[Peatogenic]

Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with my best friend LOL I mean that in a nice way I hope that doesn't come across the wrong way though!! I say that because I'll have a 30 minute plus argument on the phone with him... only to find out that we actually agree LOL

I agree 100% that stress is the root cause which causes the endocrine dysfunction.

However, the body is not good at restoring endocrine function, in my experience. Even removing what caused the stress, usually will not restore the endocrine function, and usually only a physical solution will fully fix the endocrine system disruption. As @Janelle525 suggested



The scar will not properly heal even once the stressor is removed. The damage is done. The endocrine system is ruined. It must be fixed.

Yes, mental symptoms accompany a physical problem and can cause a negative feedback loop. Breaking out of this negative feedback loop is the key, and I'm not convinced "positive thinking" has much permanent, long lasting impact on this as can be seen with the OP who spent 5 years trying things like this with merely limited success.



Never said to disregard environment. This is why I think we're arguing when in fact we're agreeing lol.

All I'm saying is that mental/physical health problems caused by stress of any kind (traumatic, cumulative small stressors, whatever) result in a disruption of the endocrine system and the ultimate goal should be the restoration of the endocrine system to achieve complete healing (also removing the stressor if there is one, and minimizing overall chronic exposure if caused by chronic exposures).

When I say that 100% of the resolution of the problem needs to come from physical means I'm referring to hormones. Certainly, sometimes improving the environment for example can also improve the hormones.

I'm sorry, I gathered from the way you described that comment on mental disorders that you might be disregarding the root of the root.

And I agree, you can be away from the stressor, in a completely safe environment and feel unsafe and threatened. This is the Hallmark of trauma disorders. It also leads to many cognitive thought impairments and beliefs. When I bring this up, I don't mean positive thinking. I mean actually exposing lies you were taught.

Want to bring up again what Peat wrote to me:.

"A person’s way of being is continuous with the way the world appears, so a person has an attitude which includes assumptions about everything. As you discover things about the world described by Blake and Whitman you change; all that is stored is a view of the world that changes as soon as you look at it."

Having new observations even within endocrine chaos was instrumental in my experiencing of a new reality. Doing my depersonalization rehabilitation led me to experiencing new realities (there's studies that this kind of therapy reduces cortisol and certainly manipulates the Limbic statement). And starting this hormone protocol has also created a new reality, the most complete and efficient to date. That was the amazing part for me...seeing how manipulating your physiology could give you a new identity, new skills, new behaviors.

 

[Regina]

True, but when you're someone like me that has spent 95% of his life getting through life by "toughing it out" and "grit" and whatever else you wanna call it, I'm burned out and need the fix the root cause - hormones. Being healthy should be the norm of life, not the exception.

Nate has a long chapter on Depression in his book F*** portion control on the fact he did literally everything (massage, therapy, support groups, acupuncture, prayer, etc... everything non diet/hormone related) and nothing fixed his depression and other mental issues until he fixed his hormones.

Mental health problems are nothing more than an extension of the disturbed physical health (endocrine system) of the individual. I feel quite confident in saying 100% of people with mental health conditions (whether its bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, PTSD, whatever) have a disturbed thyroid / endocrine system, easily enough verified through hormone tests.

Similarly, I was a member of a dojo that had zen priests who knew fantastic bodywork, we did meditation, chanted heart sutra and I also regularly went to an acupuncturist. There were many very nice members who formed a nice social network. But nobody really questioned the insane pain tolerance or over-training. I never heard of cortisol, adrenaline or endorphins and certainly not serotonin at a dojo. I had only encountered those words in drivel click-bait articles that I may have skimmed. No one can tell them anything about this. They are absolutely convinced of their becoming superpowers--surpassing the little weak people.

 

[Makrosky]

Just to be clear, I don't hold this view. I believe that external traumas cause many of these conditions for a lot of people. Yes, they are reflected by metabolic issues, but the metabolic issues don't just appear out of nowhere. Nevertheless, I believe that the primary (not only) way of addressing the original trauma is through physiological means. Some people dissociate from their trauma and have no memory of it. But their body does. How in the world are they going to process that trauma? Most Somatic therapists believe you don't even have to engage with the original trauma to heal it.

Maybe you don't have to "process" anything. I don't feel like I am a kind of milk that has to be processed to get cheese.

 

[Makrosky]

Yes, and in fact I believe these are my main problems currently - beating my bloat. Luckily Hans gave me some great suggestions I'm going to try and I'm hopeful for them given that he says both he and his wife used to have bloat problems so I'm basically using his same protocols.

BTW sorry @Peatogenic if I'm derailing your thread.

Share the protocols man!

 

[Makrosky]

"Mental tensions, frustrations, insecurity, aimlessness are among the most damaging stressors, and psychosomatic studies have shown how often they cause migraine headache, peptic ulcers, heart attacks, hypertension, mental disease, suicide, or just hopeless unhappiness."

I think Seyle refers to these things as happening in your present, not 30 years ago.

 

[Peatogenic]

Maybe you don't have to "process" anything. I don't feel like I am a kind of milk that has to be processed to get cheese.

Maybe you don't. But some people do. It was processing that led me to this point, so...

My trauma came from an extremist/authoritarian cult and being led to believe all manner of things about myself that filled me with terror. For a long time. You don't just walk away from that and not process anything. It took me about eight months just to have a different view of the world. And up until three months ago, even writing about it as I am now would have activated my endorphins, I would lose sensation in my body, be unable to speak or keep my eyes open. I actually became aware of Peat and stress and nutrition while in the cult, but I never once thought there was something dehumanizing about my world view or environment. It's not as if I escaped by my own thought, I was kicked out and told I was a vessel of Satan, created by God to spiritually murder His true church with no free will of my own. I believed everything.

 

[Peatogenic]

I think Seyle refers to these things as happening in your present, not 30 years ago.

You need to research trauma disorders. The damage starts 30 years ago. It reorders your entire body and brain.

 

[InChristAlone]

Somatic practice is more about releasing and helping the fight flight or freeze play out fully than it is about processing. I think that's a loaded word. Therapists will sometimes have someone relive a trauma to process it but that can re trauamtize someone. SE believes the trauma is in the wiring of the nervous system. When an animal comes close to death it will shake for several minutes before walking off. This is completion of the survival energy. If someone isn't allowed to shake and tremble and come to their senses after an acute trauma that energy remains in the nervous system and you get stuck in survival mode. This shuts down digestion as energy is diverted to muscles. This is actually pretty common and why PTSD is so prominent. Being in a chronically traumatic environment leads to being stuck in shut down/ freeze survival response. This causes all bodily processes to run at very low levels. Essentially causing what we know as hypothyroidism. Now you can try to force your metabolism to wake up through use of hormones but what needs to happen is the nervous system needs to release the stuck survival energy and start to re regulate again. This restores many of the processes that were functioning very low. Some may need extra help, but the body should be allowed time to heal and regulate on it's own. I think we just live in a chronically stressful environment and so a lot of people won't ever get back to regulation fully.

 

[Peatogenic]

Somatic practice is more about releasing and helping the fight flight or freeze play out fully than it is about processing. I think that's a loaded word. Therapists will sometimes have someone relive a trauma to process it but that can re trauamtize someone. SE believes the trauma is in the wiring of the nervous system. When an animal comes close to death it will shake for several minutes before walking off. This is completion of the survival energy. If someone isn't allowed to shake and tremble and come to their senses after an acute trauma that energy remains in the nervous system and you get stuck in survival mode. This shuts down digestion as energy is diverted to muscles. This is actually pretty common and why PTSD is so prominent. Being in a chronically traumatic environment leads to being stuck in shut down/ freeze survival response. This causes all bodily processes to run at very low levels. Essentially causing what we know as hypothyroidism. Now you can try to force your metabolism to wake up through use of hormones but what needs to happen is the nervous system needs to release the stuck survival energy and start to re regulate again. This restores many of the processes that were functioning very low. Some may need extra help, but the body should be allowed time to heal and regulate on it's own. I think we just live in a chronically stressful environment and so a lot of people won't ever get back to regulation fully.

This is what the SE world taught me, all of it. But I really began to question the idea of trapped energy. I could never find any concrete explanation, certainly not through scientific studies, that trauma is stored as that unreleased energy. This was through many months of observation. I believe even the activation of neurogenic tremoring to just be a natural state anyone can activate, stored trauma or not. What I've concluded is that the "trapped energy" is actually just the body trapped in the stress response (Limbic over activation). Again, there's a cause for the body to even shake. It's not as if there's just a vague energy that we transfer from human to human or event to human. There's a corresponding hormone state to everything we think and feel. What I'm curious about is what causes the tremoring....what causes the shaking. When someone gets in a car accident, and begins to shake (not everyone does or needs to)....what's really going on. I could be completely wrong on this, but I've spent a long time thinking, researching, observing on this topic. I've just been unable to find any concrete evidence of this belief in the SE community. And the efficacy of SE work, which has been positively established, what is the real basis and mechanics of what's taking place in the SE therapy room.

However, had it not been for SE, I wouldn't have been given treatment for dissociation/depersonalization on a physiological level. She actually was a dissociation researcher and treated it like a physical impairment. She called it neurological, but if you look at associated studies that relate to her treatments, it's all a manipulation of the hormone state.

She was an SE therapist, but the work we were doing had nothing to do with trapped energy, it had to do with dissociation/depersonalization....existing out of body and out of your senses.

 

[InChristAlone]

Emotion is just energy in motion. It has to flow. But sooooo many people repress emotions thus that energy is stuck. I don't have any concrete evidence for this, not everything can be proven via science. Spiritual energy cannot be proven yet billions of people past and present believe in some kind of spirit. If we believe we are only a product of our hormonal state at any given moment is to suggest that life is meaningless. That we have no spirit and life ends when the heart stops beating. I think that is really really depressing. I'd rather die than believe we have no spiritual energy.

 

[InChristAlone]

This is what the SE world taught me, all of it. But I really began to question the idea of trapped energy. I could never find any concrete explanation, certainly not through scientific studies, that trauma is stored as that unreleased energy. This was through many months of observation. I believe even the activation of neurogenic tremoring to just be a natural state anyone can activate, stored trauma or not. What I've concluded is that the "trapped energy" is actually just the body trapped in the stress response (Limbic over activation). Again, there's a cause for the body to even shake. It's not as if there's just a vague energy that we transfer from human to human or event to human. There's a corresponding hormone state to everything we think and feel. What I'm curious about is what causes the tremoring....what causes the shaking. When someone gets in a car accident, and begins to shake (not everyone does or needs to)....what's really going on. I could be completely wrong on this, but I've spent a long time thinking, researching, observing on this topic. I've just been unable to find any concrete evidence of this belief in the SE community. And the efficacy of SE work, which has been positively established, what is the real basis and mechanics of what's taking place in the SE therapy room.

However, had it not been for SE, I wouldn't have been given treatment for dissociation/depersonalization on a physiological level. She actually was a dissociation researcher and treated it like a physical impairment. She called it neurological, but if you look at associated studies that relate to her treatments, it's all a manipulation of the hormone state.

She was an SE therapist, but the work we were doing had nothing to do with trapped energy, it had to do with dissociation/depersonalization....existing out of body and out of your senses.

Good question. Tremoring itself doesn't necessarily activate the survival response. We don't know all there is to know about the limbic system yet.

 

[Cirion]

I'm not denying the possibility of a spiritual aspect to our bodies. After all, I'm a Christian myself, so I'm no stranger to this idea.

I think the only thing I'm really disagreeing with the idea is that there is a disconnect between hormones and the mind, or the spirit, or the environment. It ALL is connected to hormones, this is why I like to look at hormones to see what's going on as a whole in the body because it is the common thread that connects everything (environment, mental state, physical state, spirituality, everything). Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, and if so apologies for that.

If you're mathematically inclined, you can describe it like this:

State of Endocrine system / hormones = function(Environment, Diet, Supplementation, Spirituality, Relationships, Sleep, Sunlight, Water, ETC)

I do think spirituality can have an impact on the hormones. But speaking spirituality in some vagaries like it performs some magic on the body that can't be measured or understood at all in any sort of physical fashion, I don't believe that. Yes the spiritual world is difficult to explain for sure with science, but its effects on the body is not hard to explain or even measure. You could clearly do a study where someone prays for a couple of hours and then measure their hormone levels and probably find their cortisol levels are down, and dopamine are up - for example.

AN ideal state of being would have all parameters optimized. Sometimes we can't do that. In these situations, it can be necessary to over-exaggerate / over-optimize other parameters in order to still achieve reasonable health. And given that equation, I see no reason why you can't "Cheat" and directly influence hormones to improve the well-being as the person as a whole using Haidut's (or others') products to effect DHEA, cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, testosterone etc etc. That may not necessarily permanently solve the problem, but it can easily motivate the individual to make improvements in the areas that need help. For example, as I get healthier I get more motivated to change my environment in a positive way. Which will help me further. A positive spiral, breaking out of the negative spiral

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe you don't. But some people do. It was processing that led me to this point, so...

My trauma came from an extremist/authoritarian cult and being led to believe all manner of things about myself that filled me with terror. For a long time. You don't just walk away from that and not process anything. It took me about eight months just to have a different view of the world. And up until three months ago, even writing about it as I am now would have activated my endorphins, I would lose sensation in my body, be unable to speak or keep my eyes open. I actually became aware of Peat and stress and nutrition while in the cult, but I never once thought there was something dehumanizing about my world view or environment. It's not as if I escaped by my own thought, I was kicked out and told I was a vessel of Satan, created by God to spiritually murder His true church with no free will of my own. I believed everything.

So we have a society/culture designed on purpose or by accident to cause the maximum ammount of meaningless work, relationships, sense of purpose, goals in life, etc. Ray has written about this and haidut has posted good papers and thoughts about this also. The Korean philosopher Byung-Chul Han has good theories about all this.

On top of that we add that it is very beneficial for the establishment to make people believe the problem in their heads it is because their parents or childhood or traumas or abusive environment INSTEAD OF seeing that we have created an absolutely non sense society and that we are being chemically and culturally emmasculated.

Then we have a massive ammount of toxins and endocrine disruptors thrown at use which it is scientifically proven that lower metabolism, androgens, etc...

And then you think people's mental health problems are because they haven't processed "a trauma". Well, it is normal, as I said, it is so deeply buried in our culture that it's really difficult to escape.

From another thread :

Peat made a statement a few years ago that is eerily similar to the "ethereal storage" and/or Akashic story above.
Childhood Stress
"..."Nothing is stored [in the organism]; it's like the pasts are all present in the same room, and we periodically have a different perspective on them. When the present balance of stuff, toxicants, euphoriants, etc., is good, you can think and feel what you want to about things." —Ray Peat

Whatever. I'm glad you are feeling better no matter which was the path that healed you. That's what's most important after all.

 

[Nokoni]

@Peatogenic It's wonderful to hear of your great progress, and you tell the story well.

Without the endocrine dysfunction, there would be more resilience to stress.

This is my experience as well, and the androsterone was a significant help. You might also want to consider 6-keto P4. It seems to be providing even further improvement for me.

Methylene blue might also be helpful. "Mitochondria play important roles in biosynthesis of sex steroid hormones" (Mitochondrial and sex steroid hormone crosstalk during aging | Longevity & Healthspan | Full Text), and MB not only improves mitochondrial function, it can actually repair damage to the mitochondria (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.12434). So maybe it can help with restoring natural production of sex steroids. I use Oxidal and love the effect.