My body my choice , abortions , vaccines, end of life?

InChristAlone

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Do you know what it's like to raise a child with a serious disability? A child like that will require the constant attention of the parents, just to support an existence that is predominantly one of suffering; a human that won't be able to relate to those around them in a way that matters. Using a binary to discuss such a nuanced issue is reductionist and lazy. We're not talking about sterilizing people due to the supposed inferiority of their genes here; putting my stance in the same box as those of early 20th century eugenicists is ridiculous.
I understand what it takes to raise special needs children, I have one with ADHD and one with Asperger's, they are completely vax free I breastfed them for yrs it didn't stop what was already taking place prenatally. Should I have aborted them? The autistic one has zero friends and is mostly agoraphobic and took forever to teach basic hygiene (he still hates showers and having his nails cut). But he's also someone who has taught me a lot about life who also shows me so much loyalty and love one that I do not take for granted as it's hard to get inside his world. And particularly the ADHD son has taught us a lot about what it means to find blessings amid the challenges. And of course I love them sacrificially. Nothing is greater than a man (or woman) who lay's down his life for another.

The irony of trying to avoid suffering is that you only cause more of it because your focus is on the negative. If instead you focused on what you are grateful for, the suffering vanishes. Yes life is a challenge for everyone but no one gets to live pain free.

Also this is all discounting that genetic testing early in pregnancy is not very accurate. Many cases of children born healthy that doctors said would be disabled or not make it.
 

Lollipop2

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Examine the spirit behind the issues:

Abortion rights:
1. Heavily pushed by eugenics (e.g. Margaret Sanger) for population control
2. Profits for private clinics, selling parts to pharmaceuticals
3. Racism, particularly reduction of black American (see writings and speeches of the eugenics society of the early 20th century)

Forced vaccination:
1. Massive profits
2. Eugenics 2.0
3. Control

Now you have the masses divided based on talking points, rather than pulling away the curtain to see the who and the why.
? ?
 

Lollipop2

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Do you know what it's like to raise a child with a serious disability? A child like that will require the constant attention of the parents, just to support an existence that is predominantly one of suffering; a human that won't be able to relate to those around them in a way that matters. Using a binary to discuss such a nuanced issue is reductionist and lazy. We're not talking about sterilizing people due to the supposed inferiority of their genes here; putting my stance in the same box as those of early 20th century eugenicists is ridiculous.
WoW! My cousin had a downs child and they LOVE him sooo much. He has brought great joy to their lives and yes a lot of work. Be careful that you don’t place your personal opinion on others.
 

Lollipop2

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Totally agree. Those on this forum that preach that no pregnancy should be terminated have never had to raise a child with a disability plus they often assume you have the resources (physical, emotional and financial) to do a good job of it, which is often not the case. It’s such a Pollyanna view.
Not even. My cousin’s experience totally negates your opinion. Be careful you and the other guy are treading on territory that unless walked down personally might be hard to justify from the sidelines…
 

Lollipop2

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I understand what it takes to raise special needs children, I have one with ADHD and one with Asperger's, they are completely vax free I breastfed them for yrs it didn't stop what was already taking place prenatally. Should I have aborted them? The autistic one has zero friends and is mostly agoraphobic and took forever to teach basic hygiene (he still hates showers and having his nails cut). But he's also someone who has taught me a lot about life who also shows me so much loyalty and love one that I do not take for granted as it's hard to get inside his world. And particularly the ADHD son has taught us a lot about what it means to find blessings amid the challenges. And of course I love them sacrificially. Nothing is greater than a man (or woman) who lay's down his life for another.

The irony of trying to avoid suffering is that you only cause more of it because your focus is on the negative. If instead you focused on what you are grateful for, the suffering vanishes. Yes life is a challenge for everyone but no one gets to live pain free.

Also this is all discounting that genetic testing early in pregnancy is not very accurate. Many cases of children born healthy that doctors said would be disabled or not make it.
This is such a beautiful post and response. Shows such maturity. Thank you.
 

OliviaD

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I understand that that these struggles can be overcome, but not without a lot of sacrifice. And never did I advocate the someone MUST do X if they find out that there is something wrong with their unborn child. My posture is not that a child must be aborted if it is found out that it's seriously disabled, but that the choice to abort should be there. I think it is hard for people to detach their emotions from the issue, because many of us know disabled people that, for some reason, seem to have an easier time being joyful and all around good human beings.. I too have a family member who is mentally retarded. She is a very happy person and I'm glad that she's around, but the toll it took on my uncle and aunt to raise her cannot be understated. You say: "the mutual love for all parties far surpasses any inconvenience." That's the ideal situation, and I believe it's the same in my relative's case, but I still maintain my position
No, I think you are unable to see beyond this egocentric viewpoint. Some issues should never have what you call 'emotion' attached to them.
 

Whichway?

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where there's a will there's a way.

If you disagree with the above quote, you suffer learned helplessness, which means estrogen dominance; I'd suggest going to raypeat.com, where you can learn more about fixing things like hormonal imbalance and restoring things called youth hormones, so you can have an inkling of hope and creativity to work thru a hard situation...

Or, I guess you could just die. Of course, I'm morally apposed to letting someone die because the situation is hard, so I believe in getting you all the help you need.
Haha yeah righto Doc. What an oestrogen fuelled putdown. You need some OJ and thyroid quick!

I guess this is 2 different value systems. Love IS a value system, that changes the way we do things.

dropping the the baby off at a fire department is even an option before kill.
The people seeking abortions aren't living a value system of Love. That's part of the issue. Your projecting your values onto people that do NOT live like you.

WoW! My cousin had a downs child and they LOVE him sooo much. He has brought great joy to their lives and yes a lot of work. Be careful that you don’t place your personal opinion on others.
Still just an N=1 example. We need this to be the example for the great masses, but unfortunately it is not.

Letting people who conceive children in what is essentially sin, and expecting the outcome to be good is naive. Look at our overflowing prisons, disrupted schools and society resulting from children bought up in broken homes, single child families, and by parents affected with alcohol, drug or mental health issues. That's what we have now.
 
B

BRBsavinWorld

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Haha yeah righto Doc. What an oestrogen fuelled putdown. You need some OJ and thyroid quick!
The logic of worldviews are currently bent by mental cases that are suboptimal; one ought to fix the mental case, not embrace it’s logic, because we are (were) a society that aspired to ever higher standards for life, and ground zero of building a society of fairness and safety begins with protecting/aiding the weak.

In my hypothetical, where you have learned helplessness, you ought to get help, not commit suicide.
So, maybe apologies are in order for jibing you over your mindset of killing babies because life is hard, even tho that’s literally learned helplessness on a cultural scale. excuses aside, I apologize.

Maybe theres a case for learned helplessness… in the jungle where the wolf pack is chasing you down, killing your babies is the best decision, then killing your slow children, then killing your wife, then jumping off the cliff once they surround you; maybe these are all valid cases of learned helplessness. (Of course, not really, because that’s actual helplessness… and the belief that you have no other way out, even when you do, is Learned helplessness).
so, that’s The very reason a society is built — protection of the weak… we have many means in order to prevent unwanted pregnancies without abortion, and we have many means for saving the children after birth.

In an advanced society that put itself in a situation to not off itself in a case of learned helplessness, it’s answer to a problem that involves the death of the weak, is “do better, get good.” This affects social order. When we begin passing laws that change cultural landscape to accept baby murder, then we literally shift the approval of poor mental health states that run headfirst into a bad decision, and then embrace the most extreme actions as par to the course. Outlier events don’t deserve cultural shifts into the worse like this.

The people seeking abortions aren't living a value system of Love. That's part of the issue. Your projecting your values onto people that do NOT live like you.
Well, yes; We don’t accept people with value systems that make bad things legal like… slavery, pedophilia, spousal abuse, theft, arson, assault, murder…

In the end, none of this philosophizing matters as much as determining if we are, indeed, murdering a human in the womb; if so, a changing worldview of killing the weak, has already started.
 

InChristAlone

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Abortion is about devaluing human beings. That worldview is scary. And we see it in those who choose abortion, they aren't valuing their own life how can they value others? We are commanded to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds and soul, then secondly to love our neighbor as ourself. When these two things are not happening you see the consequences. It's not pretty. It's ugly. But the answer does not lie in more death and destruction the answers lies in more love for God and for others.
 
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area51puy

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****!!! When Covid starts to creep up in the fall and they start saying we need mandates to save lives, I tell them my body my choice they are going to bring up these right wing idiots and say that doesn’t apply anymore because of the prolifes magical imagination of a clump of cells. And now I have to sacrifice my health. We live in a world of idiots.
 

Jonk

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****!!! When Covid starts to creep up in the fall and they start saying we need mandates to save lives, I tell them my body my choice they are going to bring up these right wing idiots and say that doesn’t apply anymore because of the prolifes magical imagination of a clump of cells. And now I have to sacrifice my health. We live in a world of idiots.
You can't stop doing the right thing because fear of it being manipulated. You sound fearful and unempathic which is exactly what they want you to be.
 
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area51puy

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You can't stop doing the right thing because fear of it being manipulated. You sound fearful and unempathic which is exactly what they want you to be.
This is the exact same thing the provaxxers said because they said they are trying to save grandpa.
 

tankasnowgod

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****!!! When Covid starts to creep up in the fall and they start saying we need mandates to save lives, I tell them my body my choice they are going to bring up these right wing idiots and say that doesn’t apply anymore because of the prolifes magical imagination of a clump of cells. And now I have to sacrifice my health. We live in a world of idiots.
Ummm, what are you even talking about?

Neither Roe vs. Wade, nor the Dobbs case, had anything to do with "My Body, My Choice." It's not a legal principle, it's a slogan used to support the abortion industry. Neither did the Dobbs case ban abortion in any way, shape, or form. It simply overruled Roe, and decided that the Constitution itself doesn't protect any "Right To Abortion," which is clear to anyone who ever read it, and simply returned any power to regulate it (through the medical industry) to the several states.

Also, if you haven't noticed, Democrat politicians seem to be both VERY pro abortion, and VERY pro mandate and restrictions. It was only California and New York that had "Vaccine Mandates" for restaurants and such, both having a Democrat governor and was done in cities with Democrat Mayors. Democrat Biden tried to force a Vaccine Mandate OSHA rule, and it was the Conservatives on the Supreme Court that blocked him, the same Conservatives that overruled Roe. If Roe vs. Wade had in any way been an obstacle to Vaccine Mandates, they wouldn't have happened in 2021.

My suggestion is to stop thinking in slogans, and go and actually read the constitution and the various Supreme Court cases you are so worried about. In fact, my man Anthony Colpo suggested the same thing in the first few paragraphs of his most recent article.


As even those in a coma would be aware, on June 24, 2022 the United States Supreme Court overturned the 1973 Roe vs Wade decision. In the epic global temper tantrum that promptly followed, critics claimed the Supreme Court had "banned" abortion, stripped women of "control over their own bodies" and removed the "constitutional right to abortion."

The Supreme Court did no such thing. A majority of the court simply ruled that the 1973 decision was incorrect, because there is no such thing as a "constitutional right to abortion." And they are correct. The US Constitution says nothing about abortion or killing fetuses - positive or negative. Regardless of how you feel about abortion, the fact of the matter is that the US Constitution does not enumerate it as a "right."

If you don't believe me, feel free to check for yourself by reading the US Constitution - something the majority of talking heads and protesters, both within and without the US - clearly have not done.

Colpo lives in Austrialia, but he clearly demonstrates a greater understanding of how the Federal Government works in those three paragraphs than you currently have. If you live in the Republic, this should embarrass you into reading (or re-reading) the Constitution right now. And if you don't, then the Dobbs case doesn't affect you in any way.
 
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area51puy

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Ummm, what are you even talking about?

Neither Roe vs. Wade, nor the Dobbs case, had anything to do with "My Body, My Choice." It's not a legal principle, it's a slogan used to support the abortion industry. Neither did the Dobbs case ban abortion in any way, shape, or form. It simply overruled Roe, and decided that the Constitution itself doesn't protect any "Right To Abortion," which is clear to anyone who ever read it, and simply returned any power to regulate it (through the medical industry) to the several states.

Also, if you haven't noticed, Democrat politicians seem to be both VERY pro abortion, and VERY pro mandate and restrictions. It was only California and New York that had "Vaccine Mandates" for restaurants and such, both having a Democrat governor and was done in cities with Democrat Mayors. Democrat Biden tried to force a Vaccine Mandate OSHA rule, and it was the Conservatives on the Supreme Court that blocked him, the same Conservatives that overruled Roe. If Roe vs. Wade had in any way been an obstacle to Vaccine Mandates, they wouldn't have happened in 2021.

My suggestion is to stop thinking in slogans, and go and actually read the constitution and the various Supreme Court cases you are so worried about. In fact, my man Anthony Colpo suggested the same thing in the first few paragraphs of his most recent article.




Colpo lives in Austrialia, but he clearly demonstrates a greater understanding of how the Federal Government works in those three paragraphs than you currently have. If you live in the Republic, this should embarrass you into reading (or re-reading) the Constitution right now. And if you don't, then the Dobbs case doesn't affect you in any way.
I called out many liberals idiots at the height of vaccine mandate push with my body my choice. now I see the idiots on the right doing the same thing.
 
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area51puy

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IM for a law if you were pro-vax you lose your right to abortion, and if you were pro-life you must take every vaccine. If It’s all about saving lives.

Then you have to what the government says
 

tankasnowgod

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I called out many liberals idiots at the height of vaccine mandate push with my body my choice. now I see the idiots on the right doing the same thing.
Really? I haven't seen any Republican politicians pushing vaccine mandates. Governors like Ron DeSantis have been quite vocal about this. If you have a specific example, please share.

I will agree it's pretty hypocritical to base your medical thinking around a slogan of "My Body, My Choice," and at the same time support vaccine mandates.
 

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