Mum just had the Pfizer vaccine - what's the case to make to stop the rest of my family taking it

[Tash]

My mother volunteered for the covid Pfizer vaccine - she deliberately didn't tell me because of my big pharma mistrust and you know, Ray Peat. Now she's bailed out of coming for Christmas because she doesn't want to affect the vaccination process as she awaits the booster shot. She seems pretty proud of herself.

She was strongly endorsed by my siblings which leads me to my question - what's the case to make against taking this vaccine (at least so prematurely) without being shrugged off as a cynical anti-vaxxer? I'm worried that all my unconditionally NHS-loving family will pre-emptively take it. Sharing a study here and there only seems to backfire as me being a fear-mongerer.

Grateful for your thoughts.

 

[Peater]

My mother volunteered for the covid Pfizer vaccine - she deliberately didn't tell me because of my big pharma mistrust and you know, Ray Peat. Now she's bailed out of coming for Christmas because she doesn't want to affect the vaccination process as she awaits the booster shot. She seems pretty proud of herself.

She was strongly endorsed by my siblings which leads me to my question - what's the case to make against taking this vaccine (at least so prematurely) without being shrugged off as a cynical anti-vaxxer? I'm worried that all my unconditionally NHS-loving family will pre-emptively take it. Sharing a study here and there only seems to backfire as me being a fear-mongerer.

Grateful for your thoughts.

Possibly too "conspiracy theorist" but the evidence should make them ask questions.

 

[Bad Linhat]

My mother volunteered for the covid Pfizer vaccine - she deliberately didn't tell me because of my big pharma mistrust and you know, Ray Peat. Now she's bailed out of coming for Christmas because she doesn't want to affect the vaccination process as she awaits the booster shot. She seems pretty proud of herself.

She was strongly endorsed by my siblings which leads me to my question - what's the case to make against taking this vaccine (at least so prematurely) without being shrugged off as a cynical anti-vaxxer? I'm worried that all my unconditionally NHS-loving family will pre-emptively take it. Sharing a study here and there only seems to backfire as me being a fear-mongerer.

Grateful for your thoughts.

I think is very difficult.
I have the same problem too with my parents, that are old (they are in their eighties) so i'm very worried about the side effects of vaccine.
If your parents aren't into technical articles and believe in big pharma (like mine), i think the best strategy is to give them some "lighter articles" like this:

'Very inconsistent': 2 allergic reactions in the UK to COVID-19 vaccine puzzle researchers

First COVID-19 Vaccine 90% Effective?

or better, some adverse testimony if you can find any

 

[Inaut]

What people who take the vaccine don’t realize is that they will be the cause of the spread (of new exosomes)... These devils have worked it out so you don’t need to take the jab to “download” the new “viru”

 

[Giraffe]

what's the case to make against taking this vaccine (at least so prematurely) without being shrugged off as a cynical anti-vaxxer?

You could ask them to wait at least until the flu season is over. It's no good to deal with a vaccine when you have an infection already. And if your body is acutely fighting with the vaccine, you do not want to be infected by other bugs on top.

 

[Ras]

What people who take the vaccine don’t realize is that they will be the cause of the spread (of new exosomes)... These devils have worked it out so you don’t need to take the jab to “download” the new “viru”

True.

 

[Ras]

Remove these people from your life. Let them know that irresponsible, unsafe behavior will not be tolerated, and that their actions have consequences. They can choose to read the data and make a truly informed decision, or they can have you in their life.

I'd also share with them everything published by Dr. Andy Kaufman, Dr. Tom Cowan, and the article below:

COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud

Iain Davis COVID 19, and the subsequent governmental responses, appear to be part of an international conspiracy to commit fraud. It seems there is no evidence that a virus called SARS-CoV-2 causes…

off-guardian.org

 

[boris]

The Pfizer and Moderna trials combined had 8 cases of Bell‘s Palsy.

Of course they say it has nothing to do with the shot because it‘s in the percentage range of occurences in the general population ....but the general population gets vaccinated.

Pfizer trial: 4 people in the vaccine group developed Bell‘s Palsy. 0 people in the placebo group.

Moderna trial: 3 people in the vaccine group developed Bell‘s Palsy. 1 in the placebo group. ...Only that there is no placebo group in the moderna trial, the „placebo“ is a meningitis vaccine.

So all in all, only people receiving a vaccine developed Bell‘s Palsy.

 

[Tarmander]

I would just love on them and if it comes up, say you think its a very bad idea

Your love will do more convincing then any facts. When they probably get it anyway, that love will stick out in their mind if any consequences come from their choices.

 

[keytothecity]

The Pfizer and Moderna trials combined had 8 cases of Bell‘s Palsy.

Of course they say it has nothing to do with the shot because it‘s in the percentage range of occurences in the general population ....but the general population gets vaccinated.

Pfizer trial: 4 people in the vaccine group developed Bell‘s Palsy. 0 people in the placebo group.

Moderna trial: 3 people in the vaccine group developed Bell‘s Palsy. 1 in the placebo group. ...Only that there is no placebo group in the moderna trial, the „placebo“ is a meningitis vaccine.

So all in all, only people receiving a vaccine developed Bell‘s Palsy.

I had that once after taking mdma. Lasted a couple of hours. Did these cases not recover?

My mother volunteered for the covid Pfizer vaccine - she deliberately didn't tell me because of my big pharma mistrust and you know, Ray Peat. Now she's bailed out of coming for Christmas because she doesn't want to affect the vaccination process as she awaits the booster shot. She seems pretty proud of herself.

She was strongly endorsed by my siblings which leads me to my question - what's the case to make against taking this vaccine (at least so prematurely) without being shrugged off as a cynical anti-vaxxer? I'm worried that all my unconditionally NHS-loving family will pre-emptively take it. Sharing a study here and there only seems to backfire as me being a fear-mongerer.

Grateful for your thoughts.

Just say there is no long term data available and that it was rushed through trials. Both facts are mainstream. Use them for fear

 

[boris]

I had that once after taking mdma. Lasted a couple of hours. Did these cases not recover?

Not all of them. Only 2 are said to have recovered so far. Some are showing improvements, some not.

 

[boris]

@Tash

Some think they are doing a noble thing by accepting the dangers of the vaccine. Showing them that the vaccines aren‘t even designed to stop the „pandemic“ could keep them from taking it:

COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Essentially Pointless

...because they won't tell us if the vaccines can prevent deaths or serious COVID-19 complications, or virus transmission between people. If you think I am trolling, check out the CNN and BMJ articles below - that is exactly what they are saying. If that is the case, then I do not see what is...

raypeatforum.com

 

[cdg]

3,150 Injuries in First Week of Illegal Experimental COVID Vaccines Among American Healthcare Workers!

The first week of injecting American healthcare workers with the experimental illegal Pfizer mRNA vaccine has resulted in over 3000 of these healthcare workers reporting that they were injured to the extent that they could not continue on their jobs and perform normal activities, requiring care from a doctor or healthcare worker.

This report is directly from the CDC and was published yesterday, December 19, 2020.

If the staffing issues and overcrowding at hospitals across the U.S. were being over-exaggerated in the Pharma-controlled corporate media in recent weeks to instill fear over COVID to the public, that is all about to change as the next phase of the experimental COVID vaccine trials is being conducted on the American public, starting with healthcare workers this past week.

Because according to this CDC report, the healthcare system just lost over 3000 staff due to the experimental COVID vaccine, and not COVID itself.

Using healthcare workers as the first human lab rats in the public was obviously planned from the start. Those trained in the dogma of the pharmaceutical industry, at least many of them, were able to roll up their sleeves and get this experimental vaccine and be convinced that the side effects are "normal" and for the "greater good," because that is what their training has taught them.

This will also lead to REAL hospital over-crowding as more and more of these healthcare workers will not be able to show up for work next week, and probably the weeks ahead, and the pharma-controlled corporate media will spin this as being due to the rising "cases" of COVID to convince the general public to line up and get this vaccine.

Next up will be seniors in assisted living institutions, probably beginning this week, and most of them have co-morbidity conditions with weakened immune systems and are pumped full of toxic pharmaceutical drugs.

This will be a literal holocaust, and be far worse than the tens of thousands of seniors who died when COVID started!

The other disturbing aspect of the CDC report published yesterday is that there were 514 healthcare workers pregnant that received the first round of Pfizer's experimental vaccine.

WARNING: 3,150 Injuries in First Week of Illegal Experimental COVID Vaccines Among American Healthcare Workers! Pregnant Women Included

The first week of injecting American healthcare workers with the experimental illegal Pfizer mRNA vaccine has resulted in over 3000 of these healthcare workers reporting that they were injured to the extent that they could not continue on their jobs and perform normal activities, requiring care...

healthimpactnews.com

 

[Yves]

3,150 Injuries in First Week of Illegal Experimental COVID Vaccines Among American Healthcare Workers!

The first week of injecting American healthcare workers with the experimental illegal Pfizer mRNA vaccine has resulted in over 3000 of these healthcare workers reporting that they were injured to the extent that they could not continue on their jobs and perform normal activities, requiring care from a doctor or healthcare worker.

This report is directly from the CDC and was published yesterday, December 19, 2020.

If the staffing issues and overcrowding at hospitals across the U.S. were being over-exaggerated in the Pharma-controlled corporate media in recent weeks to instill fear over COVID to the public, that is all about to change as the next phase of the experimental COVID vaccine trials is being conducted on the American public, starting with healthcare workers this past week.

Because according to this CDC report, the healthcare system just lost over 3000 staff due to the experimental COVID vaccine, and not COVID itself.

Using healthcare workers as the first human lab rats in the public was obviously planned from the start. Those trained in the dogma of the pharmaceutical industry, at least many of them, were able to roll up their sleeves and get this experimental vaccine and be convinced that the side effects are "normal" and for the "greater good," because that is what their training has taught them.

This will also lead to REAL hospital over-crowding as more and more of these healthcare workers will not be able to show up for work next week, and probably the weeks ahead, and the pharma-controlled corporate media will spin this as being due to the rising "cases" of COVID to convince the general public to line up and get this vaccine.

Next up will be seniors in assisted living institutions, probably beginning this week, and most of them have co-morbidity conditions with weakened immune systems and are pumped full of toxic pharmaceutical drugs.

This will be a literal holocaust, and be far worse than the tens of thousands of seniors who died when COVID started!

The other disturbing aspect of the CDC report published yesterday is that there were 514 healthcare workers pregnant that received the first round of Pfizer's experimental vaccine.

WARNING: 3,150 Injuries in First Week of Illegal Experimental COVID Vaccines Among American Healthcare Workers! Pregnant Women Included

The first week of injecting American healthcare workers with the experimental illegal Pfizer mRNA vaccine has resulted in over 3000 of these healthcare workers reporting that they were injured to the extent that they could not continue on their jobs and perform normal activities, requiring care...

healthimpactnews.com

"Health impact events" would include having a fever or fatigue or other normal effects of your immune system responding to the vaccine. I just recently had covid, in the process of recovering, it's not gonna kill me, but it's not exactly fun either.

To date the virus has a 99% survival rate and the vaccine has a 100% survival rate. Side effects of the vaccine are much lower than the side effects of covid. I am not looking forward to having to deal with covid aftereffects on top of existing issues. People are freaking out about the vaccine, but to date it appears far safer than the actual disease. If I had to choose, I'd take my chances with the vaccine.

90 percent of coronavirus patients experience side effects after recovery, study finds

An online survey of 965 recovered COVID-19 patients found 9 in 10 reported experiencing symptoms such as fatigue, loss of taste and smell and psychological issues.

thehill.com

COVID-19 long haulers explained

UC Davis Health experts offer insights as to why some people experience long-term symptoms after contracting COVID-19.

health.ucdavis.edu

 

[boris]

To date the virus has a 99% survival rate

The statistics are wildly inaccurate for various reasons. Many have been killed by unnecessary false treatment, even though effective treatments were already known. Additionally the numbers are inflated because the PCR tests were run at cycle tresholds which show more false positives, you have to assume that many in the COVID death statistics had no COVID at all but died of completely unrelated causes.

CNN: Covid-19 Death Rate Is Under 1% For Everyone But People Over 70

...and that

raypeatforum.com

...and that <1% death rate is actually about 0.17% on average for everybody except those people over 70. Bottom line - COVID-19 is now confirmed to be less lethal than the flu, according to the govt's own numbers[...]

• 0.003% of children 18 and younger who are infected with coronavirus die.
• The fatality rate is 0.02% of people aged 20 to 49.
• 0.5% of people aged 50 to 69.
• 5.4% of people 70 and older.

That's almost 99.9% survival rate for non elderly people. And the real survival rate must be much higher.

I am not looking forward to having to deal with covid aftereffects on top of existing issues. People are freaking out about the vaccine, but to date it appears far safer than the actual disease. If I had to choose, I'd take my chances with the vaccine.

There was no real safety testing. A few months are not enough to say anything about the long term effects. Usually a vaccine has to be tested for years. You will maybe protect yourself from the sniffles, while simultaneously risking that the vaccine will give you cancer 10 years down the line. Absolutely not worth it.

 

[Yves]

Was my PCR test result a false positive?

You used to ace true-or-false tests back in middle school. But now you’re stuck inside for 10 days with a positive COVID-19 test result and no symptoms! Was that answer actually… false?

medical.mit.edu

PCR is not giving "false positives" the more cycles you do, it's just more sensitive. At any rate more false positives would mean that case rates are overestimated and thus fatality rates are underestimated. Likely the opposite is true since false negatives are more likely and not everyone who gets it gets tested. Excess mortality this year exceeds covid death statistics by about 100,000 in the US.

Everyone can make their own risk assessment, but we know COVID has killed people and has caused side effects / long term damage after recovery. The vaccine has not yet killed anyone (yes it's early but covid has killed people in weeks, and it's been months since the vaccine was in trials).

OP- I would be more worried if your mom had covid. vaccine has a 100% survival rate. the sars-cov2 virus is more dangerous than the mRNA in the vaccine.

 

[MichaelY]

The virus has already mutated into a less lethal version of its prior self than it was when it first reared its ugly head, fatalities are down, hospitals are not overrun, etc. I work with an obese mess of a person that eats candy bars and lipton iced tea for breakfast every morning and he recovered from the Covid...I'm not worried about it anymore. Furthermore, the vaccines supposedly only have a 95% effective rate but 99.98% recover fine from covid. I'll take my chances with my own immune system. Can also add that natural compounds like D3 and anti-viral agents like wild oregano p73 have been shown to strengthen the immune system as well. My .2cents anyway.

 

[Peater]

Was my PCR test result a false positive?

You used to ace true-or-false tests back in middle school. But now you’re stuck inside for 10 days with a positive COVID-19 test result and no symptoms! Was that answer actually… false?

medical.mit.edu

PCR is not giving "false positives" the more cycles you do, it's just more sensitive. At any rate more false positives would mean that case rates are overestimated and thus fatality rates are underestimated. Likely the opposite is true since false negatives are more likely and not everyone who gets it gets tested. Excess mortality this year exceeds covid death statistics by about 100,000 in the US.

Everyone can make their own risk assessment, but we know COVID has killed people and has caused side effects / long term damage after recovery. The vaccine has not yet killed anyone (yes it's early but covid has killed people in weeks, and it's been months since the vaccine was in trials).

OP- I would be more worried if your mom had covid. vaccine has a 100% survival rate. the sars-cov2 virus is more dangerous than the mRNA in the vaccine.

COVID has a >99% survival rate.

Sure just trust those doctors and pharmaceutical companies...yeah no.

 

[boris]

At any rate more false positives would mean that case rates are overestimated and thus fatality rates are underestimated.

Fatality rates are overblown because people are being tested on their deathbed and even postmortem.



Fauci: "If you get a cycle threshold of 35 or more, the chances of it being replication competent are miniscule, ... if somebody does come in with 37, 38, even 36, you gotta say you know, it's just dead nucleotides. Period."

OP- I would be more worried if your mom had covid. vaccine has a 100% survival rate. the sars-cov2 virus is more dangerous than the mRNA in the vaccine.

You are making claims that you have absolutely no basis for. There has not been enough safety testing to account for long term effects.

 

[Yves]

Fatality rates are overblown because people are being tested on their deathbed and even postmortem.



Fauci: "If you get a cycle threshold of 35 or more, the chances of it being replication competent are miniscule, ... if somebody does come in with 37, 38, even 36, you gotta say you know, it's just dead nucleotides. Period."



You are making claims, that you have absolutely no basis for. There has not been enough safety testing to account for long term effects.

This isn't a false positive in the sense that you don't/didn't have the virus. It means what's left of the virus in your system is probably not infectious.


In terms of survival rates, we have what, 6+ months of people having been on the vaccine and no deaths due to the vaccine? We knew covid was deadly within weeks of it's spread because people died from it. So unless there is a delayed killer effect of the vaccine, there is no evidence currently that it is anywhere near as dangerous as covid. Maybe that will change in the future, I'm not married to an opinion so I will change my mind if there is good evidence.

IMO, if you are young and of reproductive age, you can be justified in skipping the vaccine since the risk/reward is relatively minimal. If you're older and past reproductive age which I assume the OP's mom is, then the risk/reward is probably very much in favor of the vaccine. If I was 70+ I would be eager to get it as well.