-
By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.
-
Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter
-
Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
Rest the rest of this post by clicking here
-
The Forum is transitioning to a subscription-based membership model - Click Here To Read
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
MPB Experimental Treatments
- Thread starter TubZy
- Start date
Progesterone
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2017
- Messages
- 1,553
I was talking to @Travis via PM earlier and he had some really interesting insight on topical cyclosporine dissolved in olive oil. Accordng to the studies, when applied topically there is known T call induced immune suppression so it could he safe and I'm sure you know that stuff grows hair like crazy. If you are interested in the studies I can post them here. Ironically it also stimulates 5AR in the CNS too.
Progesterone
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2017
- Messages
- 1,553
Thoushant
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2015
- Messages
- 211
Cyclosporin A is also the number one CypD blocker used in many experiments. Blocking CypD stops mPTP, improves inner membrane potential and inhibits cytochrome C release and apoptosis.
It all sounds very good for a proliferating HF stem cell..
mPTP is Ca mediated(excitation) minidoxil opens K channels, less Ca influx.
FOXOs increase CypD and can block IGF-1, insulin and AR pathways(read isotretinoin and foxo1, for good review)
I think this goes well with recent experiments showing lactate promotion good for hair growth, in rats.
gsk3b inhibition also related to mPTP and foxos, valproate shows hair growth
normal stem cells rely heavily on glycolysis for ATP and mitochondria TCA is used Amino acid production and growth.
Manganese is used for MnSOD to reduce ROS, ROS opens mPTP via CypD, Mn is also important for collagen production all over. check acne org long term accutane side effects.thread, pages ~200 (and very very interesting around 230ish) look for tryingtohelp and modeaa, it's the wildest back and forth.Ive ever read
It all sounds very good for a proliferating HF stem cell..
mPTP is Ca mediated(excitation) minidoxil opens K channels, less Ca influx.
FOXOs increase CypD and can block IGF-1, insulin and AR pathways(read isotretinoin and foxo1, for good review)
I think this goes well with recent experiments showing lactate promotion good for hair growth, in rats.
gsk3b inhibition also related to mPTP and foxos, valproate shows hair growth
normal stem cells rely heavily on glycolysis for ATP and mitochondria TCA is used Amino acid production and growth.
Manganese is used for MnSOD to reduce ROS, ROS opens mPTP via CypD, Mn is also important for collagen production all over. check acne org long term accutane side effects.thread, pages ~200 (and very very interesting around 230ish) look for tryingtohelp and modeaa, it's the wildest back and forth.Ive ever read
Thanks, yeah manganese was actually on my mind as well. Another member on here claimed manganese and zinc would cure hair loss and referenced the study showing them being very abnormally low in regards to the hair follicle. Do you have any insight on topical manganese or were you referring to oral?
Yeah, you? I missed this past week however.
Thoushant
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2015
- Messages
- 211
I have to research on it, and plan a supplement protocol. I've always come across how mineral imbalances affect vitamins and enzymes etc with nothing to back it up or explain.
tryingtohelp and modeaa just paved the way for it all. like B1 B2 are needed for Mn use, Mn is the most important for liver detox reactions, Mn stabilising smooth ER, so Fe can be stored and released etc etc. I recall they built up from methylation and went backwards through enzymes.
eventually I'm planning to supplement Mn orally, about 5mg and take it from there.
I suspect a deficiency that activates foxos, and cells then think they are starving, no anabolism. or failing mitochondria that try to recharge membrane and use valuable subtrates, but end up releasing cyt C and go apoptotic. I would definitely be researching mitochondria regulation and pathways.
tryingtohelp and modeaa just paved the way for it all. like B1 B2 are needed for Mn use, Mn is the most important for liver detox reactions, Mn stabilising smooth ER, so Fe can be stored and released etc etc. I recall they built up from methylation and went backwards through enzymes.
eventually I'm planning to supplement Mn orally, about 5mg and take it from there.
I suspect a deficiency that activates foxos, and cells then think they are starving, no anabolism. or failing mitochondria that try to recharge membrane and use valuable subtrates, but end up releasing cyt C and go apoptotic. I would definitely be researching mitochondria regulation and pathways.
Progesterone
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2017
- Messages
- 1,553
Yes but I am slightly worried about DAWS from daily use. Thoughts?
I am thinking taking weekend off (SAT-SUN) and use 5 days a week?
Not really lol I also use nicotine daily as well so I have been pounding my dopamine receptors pretty hard. I mean for me personally on the off days I don't notice much of a difference mentally but it could be different for someone else. I would say use the lowest amount needed to be effective and if you can only take it every other day and still get the positives do that.
Unrelated to an extent I also ordered a full body red light/infared (wasn't cheap at all) not specially for hair purposes but just overall health and skin. Probably the last area of Peat which I haven't really dove into yet, but it seems pretty interesting considers NASA has been researching it.
OK, so below includes some of the messages that @Travis sent me via PM, I just copied them here because he did some excellent research on this. So I think the more people engaged the better.
"The good news is the capsules are already formulated with about 10% cyclosporine in oil, so they would be easy to use.
It's an expensive drug to produce, and the pet-grade seems way cheaper. At 2$ apiece, you even use one per day.
On of the other case reports in Archives of Dermatology used a concentration of 25%! It regrew this guys entire head. Let me see if I can find it...
This was officially called alopecia areata, but how would you know? It's like they admit that it's caused by aldosterone and cortisol in some people, but decide that it's DHT in others? There is never any biochemical justification for this.
Here is another case report at 5%, this time for "androgenic alopecia."
In this very small study (n=8), one-fourth of patients responded strongly to this.
It does make you wonder about the other 75%? Was their skin too thick, too much cholesterol in the sebum?
Not sure. But once it gets inside the cell it works great. The hard part is getting it there. I've seen 3 separate studies (and read one of them) on chemists studying the topical absorption of this drug. It really is that notorious for low absorption.
"Yeah 5% should be 50mg/g, or about 50 mg/mL.
The density of most liquids is around 1 mg/g, and I'm pretty sure that the gram is actually defined as one milliliter of water. Yup. Here's a quote from the Wiki:
mass of almost exactly one kilogram, because the kilogram was originally defined in 1795 as one cubic decimetre of water at the temperature of melting ice.
And most oils have a density close enough to just use 1 mg/g for simplicity.
But it doesn't matter as long as it's either around or above 5%. Remember that first case report used "250 mg in 105 mL of lotion." This is close to 25%!
Rat studies seem to work with a little lower concentration even, but the rat skin is thinner and researchers had used acetone."
"This is from the 5% in olive oil case reports:
There were no local side effects, abnormal physical findings, or laboratory abnormalities during the study. All patients failed to show evidence of systemic absorption of cyclosporine by high-performance liquid chromatography, which is highly specific. The less specific radioimmunoassay techniques, however, detected traces of cyclosporine in samples from the two patients demonstrating hair growth.
And here is from the 25% case reports:
The blood levels of cyclosporine we found in our patient are far lower than the usual serum levels of 500 to 1500 ng/mL reached in transplantation. The modest rise of white blood cell and lymphocyte counts is therefore likely to be a coincidental event...
It actually raised T-cells slightly; probably just a coincidence. "
"You could probably cut it half-and-half with either coconut of olive oil. The pills already have long-chain fatty acids from the castor oil that it's dissolved in.
It should dissolve nearly immediately.
I hope it works. It seems to work in at least 25% of people. It's hard to tell if the other 75% had an absorption issue or there was some other cellular reason for thinning.
The thyroid receptor, the vitamin A receptor, and the glucocorticoid receptor can all influence hair growth. But only changes in the mineralcorticoid receptor and vitamin D receptor can produce total alopecia. These are the most powerful cellular controllers of hair growth.
Vitamin A and thyroid can affect the rate, and the glucocorticoid receptor effects mainly the skin and not the follicle.
I see the mineralcorticoid receptor as the main target, and drugs like spiro and cyclo target this. There is no coincidence that they produce hair growth.
And I think that the vitamin D receptor should be target #2."
"I wouldn't do it. It can cause hair to grow everywhere!
Some people taking this stuff orally even had hair growing on their nose. The powerful hair-growth effects of this drug were first noted as a side-effect."
"The good news is the capsules are already formulated with about 10% cyclosporine in oil, so they would be easy to use.
It's an expensive drug to produce, and the pet-grade seems way cheaper. At 2$ apiece, you even use one per day.
On of the other case reports in Archives of Dermatology used a concentration of 25%! It regrew this guys entire head. Let me see if I can find it...
This was officially called alopecia areata, but how would you know? It's like they admit that it's caused by aldosterone and cortisol in some people, but decide that it's DHT in others? There is never any biochemical justification for this.
Here is another case report at 5%, this time for "androgenic alopecia."
In this very small study (n=8), one-fourth of patients responded strongly to this.
It does make you wonder about the other 75%? Was their skin too thick, too much cholesterol in the sebum?
Not sure. But once it gets inside the cell it works great. The hard part is getting it there. I've seen 3 separate studies (and read one of them) on chemists studying the topical absorption of this drug. It really is that notorious for low absorption.
"Yeah 5% should be 50mg/g, or about 50 mg/mL.
The density of most liquids is around 1 mg/g, and I'm pretty sure that the gram is actually defined as one milliliter of water. Yup. Here's a quote from the Wiki:
mass of almost exactly one kilogram, because the kilogram was originally defined in 1795 as one cubic decimetre of water at the temperature of melting ice.
And most oils have a density close enough to just use 1 mg/g for simplicity.
But it doesn't matter as long as it's either around or above 5%. Remember that first case report used "250 mg in 105 mL of lotion." This is close to 25%!
Rat studies seem to work with a little lower concentration even, but the rat skin is thinner and researchers had used acetone."
"This is from the 5% in olive oil case reports:
There were no local side effects, abnormal physical findings, or laboratory abnormalities during the study. All patients failed to show evidence of systemic absorption of cyclosporine by high-performance liquid chromatography, which is highly specific. The less specific radioimmunoassay techniques, however, detected traces of cyclosporine in samples from the two patients demonstrating hair growth.
And here is from the 25% case reports:
The blood levels of cyclosporine we found in our patient are far lower than the usual serum levels of 500 to 1500 ng/mL reached in transplantation. The modest rise of white blood cell and lymphocyte counts is therefore likely to be a coincidental event...
It actually raised T-cells slightly; probably just a coincidence. "
"You could probably cut it half-and-half with either coconut of olive oil. The pills already have long-chain fatty acids from the castor oil that it's dissolved in.
It should dissolve nearly immediately.
I hope it works. It seems to work in at least 25% of people. It's hard to tell if the other 75% had an absorption issue or there was some other cellular reason for thinning.
The thyroid receptor, the vitamin A receptor, and the glucocorticoid receptor can all influence hair growth. But only changes in the mineralcorticoid receptor and vitamin D receptor can produce total alopecia. These are the most powerful cellular controllers of hair growth.
Vitamin A and thyroid can affect the rate, and the glucocorticoid receptor effects mainly the skin and not the follicle.
I see the mineralcorticoid receptor as the main target, and drugs like spiro and cyclo target this. There is no coincidence that they produce hair growth.
And I think that the vitamin D receptor should be target #2."
"I wouldn't do it. It can cause hair to grow everywhere!
Some people taking this stuff orally even had hair growing on their nose. The powerful hair-growth effects of this drug were first noted as a side-effect."
Last edited:
@TubZy also talked with Travis a bit about cyclo. I found a formulation called Neoral that also comes in liquid form, seems pretty fitting for topical application. I’m just wondering, provided I could get a prescription for it, how to gauge if it’s being absorbed. My hair is pretty long on top so with topical s I always question the absorption.
I have the little liquid softgel ones but man the liquid does not come out, it is almost like stuck in there, I have been trying to dilute it into olive oil. From what Travis told me, the results should be apparent in a few weeks, if you have a scalp itch or any inflammation I think a reduction in that either after a few days or weeks should means it is working. Other than that, I would say any possible thickening or hair quality could be another hair indicator.
Did you add the Neoral to olive oil? I think that is key, travis mentioned that the olive oil is what enhances the absorption of it topically sinze cyclo has such a large molecule.
So it's sounding like that stuff would need to be used indefinitely to maintain?
Oral cyclosporine for the treatment of alopecia areata. A clinical and immunohistochemical analysis. - PubMed - NCBI
Oral cyclosporine for the treatment of alopecia areata. A clinical and immunohistochemical analysis. - PubMed - NCBI
Yeah you would need to use it continuously.
Check out this thread as well and it also carries on to the following page, Travis posted more info and cyclo and all the metabolite of spiro (canrenone) (that supposedly works much better for hair with much less possible anti androgen effects).
Post Finasteride Syndrome, 5ar, And The Brain
Oh, awesome, I had missed that.
There is not a single drug for hairloss which works as use one time and fix your problem forever. Idk why you are even asking this
Idk why you are even saying that. There is no precedent for a drug that can supposedly regrow a full head of hair.
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
Similar threads
