MPB Experimental Treatments

[dq139]

hey guys, what would you say would help keep hair when taking dht steroids?...I just got a 12% dht gel from russianstarpeptides.com and honestly after reading this I don't even want to use it lol...I have basically a full head of hair but its starting to thin at the hairline slightly...I feel like I have lower dht levels at the moment..from reading Ray peats opinions on balding I thought I could use a little dht and it would'nt hurt my hair or prostate if my estrogen is lower range...I'm not confident anymore honestly and would be really depressed if I traded my youthful good head of hair for a libido rush and energy....anyway, what do u guys recommend? thanks for the help as always.

 

[redred]

This is a very fascinating thread I must say. I have been reading almost the whole thread with much enjoyment. About 3 weeks ago I started taking 1g taurine, about 400-600mg of caffeine, 500mg niacinamide, an aspirin in the morning and sometimes glycine. About 3 times I take it, of course with orange juice or some other sugary beverage.

It's a marvelous concoction. It was from haiduts aspirin/niacinamide/caffeine mix that the aspirin and niacinamide comes from. The taurine/caffeine/glycine comes from this thread. I remember from peatarian.com that some person mixed aspirin, niacinamide and caffeine in a bottle (powder), and got good results with applying it on his lost hair.

Theanine is something I will try next.

The effects have been gradual but no doubt pronounced. More motivation (more dopamine I presume), a less dark outlook on life, women don't have the same appeal as they normally do which is confusing but relieving.

My weight is reducing (is it the taurine? caffeine?), and it's nice because I do have a bit of a belly. And the typical symptoms of high prolactin/cortisol is there also, hairy back, shoulders, biceps, hairy pretty much everything. Maybe i'm the living proof that we do come from monkeys lol.

Caffeine seems like the holy grail.

Lampofred, what caffeine are you using? Powder, pills? I know peat favours coffee but it has too little caffeine really.

I quit smoking too after this, probably because of the dopamine increase.

 

[redred]

In a nutshell: high dopamine, low serotonin, low prolactin, low cortisol overall but high cortisol-to-dheas ratio, low adrenal androgens, high thyroid function, fast metabolism. Achieving all of these at once is very hard to do because it is a state of great health which is why so many people go bald. Luckily for us though we have Ray Peat to help us with this goal. Caffeine helps tremendously (1200 mg per day) and is probably the most important supplement, salt, aspirin + vitamin K, vitamin A, vitamin E, basically all vitamins are important including niacinamide. High caloric intake of good food (high sat fat, high protein, high salt, etc.) is important and so is high CO2. The number 1 goal is to achieve a state of low prolactin and low cortisol. Adrenal androgens and peripheral DHT (NOT blood DHT) is the cause of MPB, and prolactin/estrogen are the main drivers of adrenal androgens. I use caffeine + high blood sugar (ever wonder why diabetics disproportionately keep their hair even they are unhealthy in other ways) + high CO2 to keep prolactin/adrenal androgens low, and a zinc/magnesium/calcium/vitamin D supplement to take care of the estrogen. Sleep is umimportant, in fact probably the less you regularly sleep the healthier your hair will be (this does NOT mean all-nighters, I'm talking more of consistently sleeping less over longer periods of time) because if you're able to get by perfectly well on little sleep you most likely have high dopamine/low prolactin. This is going to be politically incorrect but stereotypes are useful: Margaret Thatcher, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Shahrukh Khan, Mick Jagger, etc are all people who barely sleep (high dopamine) and have great hair. Lebron James on the other hand sleeps 12 hours a day and the hair line shows it. Balding guys are often associated with "fat, bald, hairy, lazy." All 4 of those have low dopamine/high prolactin as the connection. Also it is important to become energetic/sleepless by increasing dopamine/NOT by increasing stress hormones which will have the opposite effect of accelerating hair loss. Optimism, religiosity, drive, motivation, etc. will naturally come with high dopamine, so working to fix your hair isn't purely vanity...it has numerous overall health benefits b/c hair loss really is a whole body systemic problem. I took bromocriptine for a while to "jumpstart" my d2 and crush my prolactin and it helped a lot. I also smoke. Acute smoking raises prolactin but chronic smoking keeps prolactin low and dopamine high because it degrades MAO-B faster than it degrades MAO-A. Excessive orgasm will also strongly elevate prolactin.

It's a great post don't get me wrong here but mind you, lots of famous, successful people who rarely sleep have also been bald. Sean Connery (bald since he was a young lad, 20's), Winston Churchill, Julius Ceasar, Napoleon all have in common baldness and a insane drive for power. And they slept very little too.

(Not to mention all the banker wankers and businessmen who sport a shiny head and work 24/7)

 

[mayweatherking]

vitamin A:

classic MPB sufferer has low testosterone, vitamin A is essential for testosterone production, basically thyroid + cholesterol + vitamin A makes testosterone.

vitamin A is essential in pregnenlone production

DANDRUFF... FUNGUS this FUNGUS that... vitamin A is another essential vitamin necessary for the elimination of fungus.

another massive part of le puzzle....

 

[Makaveli]

I've been experiencing increased hair thickness and some mini new hairs on my scalp. When i look at the hairs that fall out closely, the bulb is fatter and more distinct. Here are some things I've been doing recently:

• consuming more calcium rich foods and focusing on Ca to phosphorous ratio
• progesterone on gums and on scalp
• vitamin K and D oils on scalp
• magnesium chloride "oil" on scalp
• vitamin A on legs and occasionally scalp
• eating around 2000 calories per day
• Selsun Blue on and off
• Coconut oil soap
• niacinamide occasionally
  
• pregnenolone about 350 mg once a week
  
• Trying to increase caffeine intake based on what @lampofred said, but it's tough for me to consume 1200 mg

I apply the oils about 3-4 times a week, massage and leave them on overnight. Some of these I use to break up calcification. The calcification problem should be resolved if you want new hairs to grow because they won't grow if your scalp is still calcified. Ca, K and magnesium are important for that reason.

 

[JDreamer]

Taurine definitely works for me. Topical taurine added to my selsun blue.

For stopping the shed and maintaining or regrowth?

 

[Progesterone]

Taurine definitely works for me. Topical taurine added to my selsun blue.

Selsun blue good for your hair?

How often do u use it? how long do u keep it in hair?

I was using it and had zero itch but the 1950's studies of diffuse loss scared the chit outta me

 

[Daniel11]

Selsun blue good for your hair?

How often do u use it? how long do u keep it in hair?

I was using it and had zero itch but the 1950's studies of diffuse loss scared the chit outta me

Selsun blue is nasty stuff that will be absorbed in too your blood steam if you put it on your head, this will have a compounding negative effect on your liver and endocrine functioning.

If you need a really good anti fungal just use Boron (brand name Borax) it works well to clean hair and quickly deal with fungus on the scalp. The element Boron is the strongest natural anti fungal on our planet. Put 2 Tbs in quart bottle of non-chlorinated water, shake and let dissolve over night then apply 1/4 cup after shower or get nice spray bottle and leave in hair until dry.

Don’t use soap or shampoo very often, just rinse with 1/2 fresh lemon juice once in a while to clean and balance ph. Rub lemon juice in hair leave for 5-10 min then quick rinse.

Chlorinated water is major issue for hair and body, if your on public water you should get a good chlorine water filter for your shower this will dramatically help your hair and your whole body.

Of course the real key to healthy scalp and hair is improving your digestive and endocrine functioning.

 

[xetawaves]

Can't using Borax like that be potentially dangerous? I'm pretty sure I've got seb derm in my scalp, and I can't find anything to get rid of it completely. I had it on my face pretty badly a couple years ago and it eventually went away after getting plenty of sun and applying tea tree oil everyday. It's stubborn as hell in the scalp though. I'm almost positive it's the main cause of my thinning hair. There are still lots of individuals hairs, but a lot of them grow thin, short and curled. I also had trichotillomania for years, so I'm sure there are places of folliculitis as well. I use a natural apple cider vinegar shampoo with a few other natural ingredients and it makes those spots on my scalp very sensitive. My scalp feels great throughout the day, but by night time it becomes sensitive and itchy again.

 

[xetawaves]

whoops dp

 

[Daniel11]

Can't using Borax like that be potentially dangerous? I'm pretty sure I've got seb derm in my scalp, and I can't find anything to get rid of it completely. I had it on my face pretty badly a couple years ago and it eventually went away after getting plenty of sun and applying tea tree oil everyday. It's stubborn as hell in the scalp though. I'm almost positive it's the main cause of my thinning hair. There are still lots of individuals hairs, but a lot of them grow thin, short and curled. I also had trichotillomania for years, so I'm sure there are places of folliculitis as well. I use a natural apple cider vinegar shampoo with a few other natural ingredients and it makes those spots on my scalp very sensitive. My scalp feels great throughout the day, but by night time it becomes sensitive and itchy again.

Why would using Boron (Borax) in a water solution on your hair/skin be dangerous, i have done it for years, i also use a mild solution for general skin and scalp cleaning, my skin and hair is soft and healthy. You still need to deal with digestion, stress and other environmental factors.

 

[johnwester130]

There is substantial evidence for the importance of endocrine factors in the produc-
tion of seborrheic dermatitis. Barber (5) noted that seborrheic dermatitis is rarely seen
before the stimulation of sebaceous gland activity which begins in puberty. Women ap-
proaching or at the climacteric were found to be prone to seborrheic dermatitis, perhaps
as a result of alteration in the androgen/estrogen ratio. Hamilton (6) reported that cas-
trates and eunuchs do not develop seborrheic dermatitis, acne, or ordinary male baldness,
and that their sebaceous secretion is only one-third that of the normal male. However,
when these subjects were given testosterone, the output of sebum increased, and some
developed seborrheic dermatitis or acne. When substitution therapy was stopped, sebor-
rheic dermatitis abated; upon resumption the condition reappeared. The influence of
androgens on the sebaceous glands was reemphasized by the observations of Brunner,
*

THE JOURNAL OF INVESTIGATIVE DERMATOLOGY
Riddell and Best (7) on patients under treatment with adrenocorticotropic hormone and
cortisone. They noted that treatment with cortisone or corticotropin was capable of caus-
ing seborrheic or acneform skin eruptions, the latter through stimulation of the adrenal
cortex with the eventual production of steroids with androgenic activity. Rony and Zakon
(8) demonstrated a stimulatory effect of androgen on the sebaceous glands, and inhibition
by estrogen. Rothman, et al. (9) demonstrated differences between adult and children's
sebum which also point to the importance of endocrine-controlled alterations in sebum
on the skin flora. They noted that with the onset of puberty, the sebaceous glands of the
scalp secreted a sebum which contained higher concentrations of certain low-boiling fatty
acids, as shown by its increased fungistatic activity. They correlated this finding with
the known resistance of adults to scalp infections with fungi of the Microsporon group.
The role of microorganisms in the production of seborrheic dermatitis has also been
studied extensively. The effect of sebum on the growth of some skin bacteria was investi-
gated by Benham (2), Emmons (3), Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Dubos (10).
Benham (2) showed that Pityrosporum ovate grew very poorly or not at all on plain Sa-
bouraud's medium, when isolated directly from scalp scales. Growth was more rapid and
profuse when lipids such as lanolin, butter, glycerin and oleic acid were added to the me-
dium. Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Pollack, Howard and Boughton (11), in a
series of papers on long chain unsaturated fatty acids, found that oleic acid favored the
growth of Fropionibacterium aenes
and of some diphtheroid species inhabiting the skin.
Of fifty-two strains isolated from the skin, five required oleic acid for growth. Dubos (1)
encountered a similar effect of lipids on the growth of an unidentified Micrococcus C. This
data suggests that the growth of Pit yrosporuni ovate, certain propionibacteria and micro-
cocci is favored by lipids, and for some of these organisms lipids are an absolute require-
ment. However, evidence of a specific stimulatory effect on any of these organisms by
sebum from seborrheic subjects has not yet been presented.





......................so sebum can cause baldness.
remove sebum with b6, zinc, b5, glycolic acid and polysorbate 80

apple cider vinegar won't remove the sebum in the follicle - which is what you need to get to

 

[xetawaves]

There is substantial evidence for the importance of endocrine factors in the produc-
tion of seborrheic dermatitis. Barber (5) noted that seborrheic dermatitis is rarely seen
before the stimulation of sebaceous gland activity which begins in puberty. Women ap-
proaching or at the climacteric were found to be prone to seborrheic dermatitis, perhaps
as a result of alteration in the androgen/estrogen ratio. Hamilton (6) reported that cas-
trates and eunuchs do not develop seborrheic dermatitis, acne, or ordinary male baldness,
and that their sebaceous secretion is only one-third that of the normal male. However,
when these subjects were given testosterone, the output of sebum increased, and some
developed seborrheic dermatitis or acne. When substitution therapy was stopped, sebor-
rheic dermatitis abated; upon resumption the condition reappeared. The influence of
androgens on the sebaceous glands was reemphasized by the observations of Brunner,
*

THE JOURNAL OF INVESTIGATIVE DERMATOLOGY
Riddell and Best (7) on patients under treatment with adrenocorticotropic hormone and
cortisone. They noted that treatment with cortisone or corticotropin was capable of caus-
ing seborrheic or acneform skin eruptions, the latter through stimulation of the adrenal
cortex with the eventual production of steroids with androgenic activity. Rony and Zakon
(8) demonstrated a stimulatory effect of androgen on the sebaceous glands, and inhibition
by estrogen. Rothman, et al. (9) demonstrated differences between adult and children's
sebum which also point to the importance of endocrine-controlled alterations in sebum
on the skin flora. They noted that with the onset of puberty, the sebaceous glands of the
scalp secreted a sebum which contained higher concentrations of certain low-boiling fatty
acids, as shown by its increased fungistatic activity. They correlated this finding with
the known resistance of adults to scalp infections with fungi of the Microsporon group.
The role of microorganisms in the production of seborrheic dermatitis has also been
studied extensively. The effect of sebum on the growth of some skin bacteria was investi-
gated by Benham (2), Emmons (3), Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Dubos (10).
Benham (2) showed that Pityrosporum ovate grew very poorly or not at all on plain Sa-
bouraud's medium, when isolated directly from scalp scales. Growth was more rapid and
profuse when lipids such as lanolin, butter, glycerin and oleic acid were added to the me-
dium. Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Pollack, Howard and Boughton (11), in a
series of papers on long chain unsaturated fatty acids, found that oleic acid favored the
growth of Fropionibacterium aenes
and of some diphtheroid species inhabiting the skin.
Of fifty-two strains isolated from the skin, five required oleic acid for growth. Dubos (1)
encountered a similar effect of lipids on the growth of an unidentified Micrococcus C. This
data suggests that the growth of Pit yrosporuni ovate, certain propionibacteria and micro-
cocci is favored by lipids, and for some of these organisms lipids are an absolute require-
ment. However, evidence of a specific stimulatory effect on any of these organisms by
sebum from seborrheic subjects has not yet been presented.





......................so sebum can cause baldness.
remove sebum with b6, zinc, b5, glyclic acid and polysorbate 80

Should I use those internally or topically? I wonder if the hair that has been lost will grow back once the seb derm has been taken care of.

 

[johnwester130]

Should I use those internally or topically? I wonder if the hair that has been lost will grow back once the seb derm has been taken care of.

zinc/b6 can be taken topically or orally

polysorbate 80 definitely topical only

 

[churchmouth]

I don't agree that that information means that sebum can cause baldness? Everyone will have sebum. Reducing Sebum doesn't seem like a smart approach to me, particularly if you are going to megadose some particular supplements.

 

[xetawaves]

I think reducing sebum if there is an excess is a good idea. If sebum feeds fungus, then having too much would not be ideal. I need to get a scalp biopsy done and see exactly what I'm dealing with.

I'm staying the hell away from ashwagandha though. I've been taking it for years. Since I stopped, my sebum levels have decreased substantially.

 

[brix]

There is substantial evidence for the importance of endocrine factors in the produc-
tion of seborrheic dermatitis. Barber (5) noted that seborrheic dermatitis is rarely seen
before the stimulation of sebaceous gland activity which begins in puberty. Women ap-
proaching or at the climacteric were found to be prone to seborrheic dermatitis, perhaps
as a result of alteration in the androgen/estrogen ratio. Hamilton (6) reported that cas-
trates and eunuchs do not develop seborrheic dermatitis, acne, or ordinary male baldness,
and that their sebaceous secretion is only one-third that of the normal male. However,
when these subjects were given testosterone, the output of sebum increased, and some
developed seborrheic dermatitis or acne. When substitution therapy was stopped, sebor-
rheic dermatitis abated; upon resumption the condition reappeared. The influence of
androgens on the sebaceous glands was reemphasized by the observations of Brunner,
*

THE JOURNAL OF INVESTIGATIVE DERMATOLOGY
Riddell and Best (7) on patients under treatment with adrenocorticotropic hormone and
cortisone. They noted that treatment with cortisone or corticotropin was capable of caus-
ing seborrheic or acneform skin eruptions, the latter through stimulation of the adrenal
cortex with the eventual production of steroids with androgenic activity. Rony and Zakon
(8) demonstrated a stimulatory effect of androgen on the sebaceous glands, and inhibition
by estrogen. Rothman, et al. (9) demonstrated differences between adult and children's
sebum which also point to the importance of endocrine-controlled alterations in sebum
on the skin flora. They noted that with the onset of puberty, the sebaceous glands of the
scalp secreted a sebum which contained higher concentrations of certain low-boiling fatty
acids, as shown by its increased fungistatic activity. They correlated this finding with
the known resistance of adults to scalp infections with fungi of the Microsporon group.
The role of microorganisms in the production of seborrheic dermatitis has also been
studied extensively. The effect of sebum on the growth of some skin bacteria was investi-
gated by Benham (2), Emmons (3), Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Dubos (10).
Benham (2) showed that Pityrosporum ovate grew very poorly or not at all on plain Sa-
bouraud's medium, when isolated directly from scalp scales. Growth was more rapid and
profuse when lipids such as lanolin, butter, glycerin and oleic acid were added to the me-
dium. Pollack, Wainright and Manson (1) and Pollack, Howard and Boughton (11), in a
series of papers on long chain unsaturated fatty acids, found that oleic acid favored the
growth of Fropionibacterium aenes
and of some diphtheroid species inhabiting the skin.
Of fifty-two strains isolated from the skin, five required oleic acid for growth. Dubos (1)
encountered a similar effect of lipids on the growth of an unidentified Micrococcus C. This
data suggests that the growth of Pit yrosporuni ovate, certain propionibacteria and micro-
cocci is favored by lipids, and for some of these organisms lipids are an absolute require-
ment. However, evidence of a specific stimulatory effect on any of these organisms by
sebum from seborrheic subjects has not yet been presented.





......................so sebum can cause baldness.
remove sebum with b6, zinc, b5, glyclic acid and polysorbate 80

my seborrheic dermatitis and hair loss started at the same time. I would lose like 40 hairs in the shower before I started treating the seb derm. Now I lose like 4.

 

[xetawaves]

my seborrheic dermatitis and hair loss started at the same time. I would lose like 40 hairs in the shower before I started treating the seb derm. Now I lose like 4.

What's your regimen

 

[brix]

What's your regimen

Getting enough A,D,K and selsun blue shampoo seems to be doing the trick for the seb derm.

Lowering prolactin/estrogen/serotonin has been my goal for stopping shedding and regrowth.

 

[xetawaves]

Getting enough A,D,K and selsun blue shampoo seems to be doing the trick.

My shedding has decreased a lot since I started eating carrots, getting sunlight and supplementing d3 everyday. I'm still on the fence about using Selsun blue. I've read both good and bad things. Can your scalp become dependent on selsun blue?