Most Amount Of Centenarians In Japan? Not Very Peaty

[EndlessResearch]

Sorry I post so much recently. I have been devouring all of this information as of late because I am going into the field of corrective exercise and nutrition in hopes of healing people after all these years I've put into healing myself. I have 20 new questions pop up everyday I think about this. There is SOOOOO much to read. Anyways, I read an article that Japan has almost 3 times the amount of centenarians that the US has and twice as many as Sweden and France, yet they eat raw fatty fish, flour, soy, chicken, kelp, and lots of other things which are not very "Peaty". Any thoughts on this? Obviously the majority of America is up to its ***s in PUFAs and processed foods, so that kills the numbers, but Japan seems to have a TON of healthy people. Is it because they have been eating that way for such a long time?

 

[Mittir]

Someone asked him similar question in a KMUD interview
about higher life expectancy in Japan.
RP replied that these are propaganda based on adjusted data.
Apparently most countries do not publish real data anymore.
The magic of statistics and mathematical modeling.

 

[SaltGirl]

In regards to eating chicken and flour it is most likely a recent development that appeared after world war II. There also seems to be a relation to iodine and PUFA, ie. if you get enough iodine it might offset some of the negative effects of PUFA.

I would also take into account that certain parts of the diet weren't common place until very recently as they used to be more expensive due to lack of refining processes and efficient fishing.

So those who are old now might have been living on a much different diet to the more modern Japanese individuals. It's impossible to take the current general diet and apply it to those who were born over 90-100 years ago and are most likely living on a very old fashioned diet.

In short, there are many factors and taking generalities and applying them to a certain subset will most likely paint a very biased(and wrong) picture.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think they might eat very little tryptophan, or it's just the caloric restriction causing that. Tryptophan seems to be even worse than low level PUFA for average longevity. And of course, their doctors are much less close-minded than ours!

 

[jyb]

I think they might eat very little tryptophan, or it's just the caloric restriction causing that. Tryptophan seems to be even worse than low level PUFA for average longevity. And of course, their doctors are much less close-minded than ours!

Little trypophan? The salmon or shellfish has similar issues as muscle meat.

 

[Blossom]

Here is one thought on why Japan may have more centenarians. I went to a conference a few years ago for ALS. In the US when a person has what is considered a terminal illness that could likely result in death within 6 months that person is given the option of hospice care. Not so in Japan. It is very culturally taboo to submit to the dying process. The Japanese were at the forefront of medical research in this area due to the fact that they do not condone hospice-

 

[Blossom]

The fact that they have more centenarians could be influenced partially by the fact that you can keep people alive with things like dialysis, feeding tubes and ventilators after the body has shut down. I would be I interested to know how many of the Japanese centenarians are living due to extreme artificial intervention.

 

[Danno]

That seems like too easy of a way out to chalk up any observation that opposses your dogma as clever statistical methods. There is danger in filtering new knowledge by saying anything can be explained away with manipulating stats. It feels like a trap or a way to never be wrong.

These centenarians like ones studied in The Blue Zones research are living full independent lives, not bedwridden on life support or dialysis, or whatever assumed excuses to explain away long lived healthy people not peating. ???? Confusing I know, but it appears people can be healthy by not eating dairy, and eating rice, beans, vegetables some pork or chicken. Many probably do have fruit trees and may grow melons and things in their veggie gardens. Also, get a full days worth of LIGHT therapy naturally with vitamin d.

 

[EndlessResearch]

That seems like too easy of a way out to chalk up any observation that opposses your dogma as clever statistical methods. There is danger in filtering new knowledge by saying anything can be explained away with manipulating stats. It feels like a trap or a way to never be wrong.

These centenarians like ones studied in The Blue Zones research are living full independent lives, not bedwridden on life support or dialysis, or whatever assumed excuses to explain away long lived healthy people not peating. ???? Confusing I know, but it appears people can be healthy by not eating dairy, and eating rice, beans, vegetables some pork or chicken. Many probably do have fruit trees and may grow melons and things in their veggie gardens. Also, get a full days worth of LIGHT therapy naturally with vitamin d.

I like this viewpoint. Could you maybe elaborate?

 

[Blossom]

Honesty I was just saying the life support measures could be one aspect of it not the ony reason. Usually things have multiple factors.

 

[jaa]

That seems like too easy of a way out to chalk up any observation that opposses your dogma as clever statistical methods. There is danger in filtering new knowledge by saying anything can be explained away with manipulating stats. It feels like a trap or a way to never be wrong.

These centenarians like ones studied in The Blue Zones research are living full independent lives, not bedwridden on life support or dialysis, or whatever assumed excuses to explain away long lived healthy people not peating. ???? Confusing I know, but it appears people can be healthy by not eating dairy, and eating rice, beans, vegetables some pork or chicken. Many probably do have fruit trees and may grow melons and things in their veggie gardens. Also, get a full days worth of LIGHT therapy naturally with vitamin d.

I agree. They also likely have stronger social bonds, and other healthy lifestyle things that aren't included in diet.

 

[jyb]

I originally thought that the Japanese society would be as stressful as any big city in the West, because it is said to have strict hierarchies and traditions (but that is changing now, especially for women), but when I went there on a trip people appeared calm and unstressed so I changed my mind. The food seemed neither good or bad compared to here, often fresher and with plenty of carb as rice, but on on the other hand low calcium, high iron and muscle meat, and I would guess high pufa. The West-inspired desserts were popular, its a lot of grains and fried stuff. The cooking seemed to be with pufa rich oils (they have many seed oils to choose from). Sodas have some popularity, including from well maintained vending machines, and those seemed not too high in sugar but with plenty chemicals and in plastic bottles. And of course, natto and other soy-products everywhere.

 

[kiran]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071

More than 230,000 elderly people in Japan who are listed as being aged 100 or over are unaccounted for, officials said following a nationwide inquiry.

An audit of family registries was launched last month after the remains of the man thought to be Tokyo's oldest were found at his family home.

Relatives are accused of fraudulently receiving his pension for decades.

Officials have found that hundreds of the missing would be at least 150 years old if still alive.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think they might eat very little tryptophan, or it's just the caloric restriction causing that. Tryptophan seems to be even worse than low level PUFA for average longevity. And of course, their doctors are much less close-minded than ours!

Little trypophan? The salmon or shellfish has similar issues as muscle meat.

The whole japan=fish is a bit of a stereotype if you ask me.

 

[jyb]

The whole japan=fish is a bit of a stereotype if you ask me.

I was served salmon for breakfast every day. Sushi bars are mostly fish or shellfish. As snack, the dried fish is very popular. In grocery store, there is a large selection of fish I never saw before. In traditional restaurants not open to tourists, fish is on most dishes, I ate some large sardines on rice.

It doesn't mean meat isn't popular too, though, but fish was significant, and probably pufa's too.

 

[HDD]

Fish broth made with fish heads = gelatin and thyroid. Green tea = caffeine Natto = vitamin k
Okinawans = water rich with minerals especially calcium

 

[Danno]

It seemed like most of the high volume groups of centenarians where somewhat isolated from big cities and at least maintained the traditional dietary staples, being less exposed to the western influences of larger cities. However, desserts and wine seemed popular.

Funny thing is I never felt good eating rice, veggies, meat combo. Or rice, beans, corn tortillas like Sardinian centenarians.( ie. Lots of Chipotle bowls with corn tortillas on the side for me)
I knew I needed animal products and possibly dairy, I just couldn't find a staple carbohydrate source that provided needed energy, potassium, vitamin C. Light bulb...FRUIT easily digestable sugars for energy, vit c, potassium. Started to read about 80/10/10 and got over sugar phobia, but thought for long term success one should include dairy, eggs, meat with fruit. Sure enough on 30bananasadaysucks.com I found similar discussions and first read about Ray Peat. Long road, but has only just began!

What fruits do I tolerate, how to make orange juice work, is orange peal in commercial oj allergenic, how do you get quality ripe fruit up north, is something in cheese allergenic, why does gelatin cause histamine reaction, are oj eggs and liver histamine liberators, is coconut oil causing reaction, sulfites, mycotoxins, do I need thyroid, pregnenolone? Never easy.

 

[charlie]

What fruits do I tolerate, how to make orange juice work, is orange peal in commercial oj allergenic, how do you get quality ripe fruit up north, is something in cheese allergenic, why does gelatin cause histamine reaction, are oj eggs and liver histamine liberators, is coconut oil causing reaction, sulfites, mycotoxins, do I need thyroid, pregnenolone? Never easy.

Indeed. Even with good suggestions on where to start its a lot of trial and error finding what works for you as an individual.

 

[haidut]

The reason Japan "appears" to have more centenarians per capita has been explained by Peat several times in his interviews and some of his articles. I am a bit surprised that nobody has run into that explanation before, but here it is, and make sure to look at the studies cited at end of the Peat quote on the peatarian.com website:

http://peatarian.com/7626/yuzurihara-japan

"...You are probably referring to the Willcox and Suzuki publications about Okinawa. Similar methods can distort the Masai situation, in the opposite direction. Japan has had a very low infant mortality rate, and Okinawa has encouraged emigration. A society's infant mortality is usually the biggest factor in its "longevity" or life expectancy, i.e., the average length of life. The older people in a population are the least likely to emigrate, so emigration increases the average age of a population. Willcox's and Suzuki's statements about Okinawa's longevity rank are no longer valid, but in their publications they talked about the high number of centenarians per 100,000 population, but weren't clear about exactly when the cited centenarians were alive.
Since the 1940s, immigration from Europe has displaced the Masai from their traditional areas, causing great poverty and extremely high infant mortality, and vegetables now form the largest part of the diet for most of their population.
As Okinawa gradually recovered from post-war devastation, its government implemented another emigration policy, citing overpopulation as one of the major reasons. Following the war, the government of the Ryukyu Islands vigorously promoted overseas emigration under the direction of the U.S., and the Okinawa Overseas Association was reestablished in 1948 as a result. It should be noted that the first post-war group of 33 emigrants departed for Argentina and one to Peru this year. In 1954 a group of 278 emigrants was sent to Bolivia as part of the government's emigration plan. In the next 10 years, until 1964, more than 3,200 Okinawans emigrated to Bolivia and the government even established a subsidy program for the emigrants. This emigration policy continued until 1973, the year following Okinawa's reversion to Japanese administration."

 

[Kray]

That seems like too easy of a way out to chalk up any observation that opposses your dogma as clever statistical methods. There is danger in filtering new knowledge by saying anything can be explained away with manipulating stats. It feels like a trap or a way to never be wrong.

These centenarians like ones studied in The Blue Zones research are living full independent lives, not bedwridden on life support or dialysis, or whatever assumed excuses to explain away long lived healthy people not peating. ???? Confusing I know, but it appears people can be healthy by not eating dairy, and eating rice, beans, vegetables some pork or chicken. Many probably do have fruit trees and may grow melons and things in their veggie gardens. Also, get a full days worth of LIGHT therapy naturally with vitamin d.

Danno, curious since this post if you are doing well on the Peat diet? Lots of dairy, fruits, eggs, low PUFA, gelatin, liver, shellfish, meats? Or have you found a different mix that works for you? Please share!