Mortality Rate Of COVID-19 Is 0.5%, Much Lower Than CDC / WHO Claims

LeeLemonoil

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Oh come on, are you blind, have you watched any of the news of Italy? The main problem is not even the deaths but more that 15% of the infected people get severe lung inflammation and can not breathe without medical intervention.

Thats it. The scope is unlike everything in the West since Spanish flu. By far not as many dead, but a severe burden on society as a whole.
Now is not the time to downplay anything. Scientists even say 1 week earlier lockdown in China would have led to 66% less infections
 

rei

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Meanwhile yesterday our local health district reported of first covid patient needing intensive care. An old person with severe pre-existing conditions. 0 deaths in whole country.

I'm sure the epidemic will hit any day now.
 

tupolev

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when we return to state-issued currency suddenly there is money for everything as the banking class does not get to live on others.

Money always and everywhere has been based on the mutual trust and productivity of a people. This is why the USD is the global reserve currency. The American People are formidable and have rule of law. The United States has never in its existence cancelled a note. You can literally walk into an American bank and cash a note from 200 years ago. Every country in Europe and Asia has cancelled a note in the last 50 years.

If utterly failed Marxist monetary ideas from 130 years ago tickle your fancy, have fun with that. The real world operates on multi-trillion capital flows by millions of people with skin in the game who care naught for theories.
 

tankasnowgod

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It's simpler and less conspiratorial than that. All over the world governments and corporate elites spent the last 25 years building up unsustainable debt, because it kept working out very well at the time for those involved. This includes your unionized American school teacher and German teacher with a totally unpayable pension, just as much as JP Morgan executives and CCP elites.

There was a hiccup in 2008, but they choked the engine and got the debt spigot spewing again. Now the bill is really coming due. And it can't be paid. The bond and currency market action right now is showing all the old patterns breaking down. No way can the 2008/2009 fiscal and monetary restart be done again. All the national governments are flat broke. China/Japan/USA/EU all broke. They're going to be forced to massively cut budgets in the face of a bad recession.

In exactly the same way these people acted similarly in running up insane debts, they're all acting the same way now to use the virus as an excuse and smokescreen. It's not a conspiracy. It's emergent correlated behavior that makes perfect sense and requires no coordination. It's what I would do, wouldn't you?

China's debt collapse is the most dangerous situation. I worry that as things spiral out of control there they'll do something stupid like invade Taiwan to distract their population from the domestic crises. Technically the USA is on the hook to defend Taiwan. But even if we did nothing there's a real chance Japan would spring to action. Either way it's a total global shitshow.

Honestly, I don't know why they couldn't just do the same move again. Paper over the problem, kick the can down the road. The Federal Reserve has already announced they are going to be printing more money, lowering interest rates to zero, and also getting rid of any reserve requirement. Blow the bubble up even bigger. It doesn't seem to make sense, but nothing really does in the financial world. It seems like it has to end at some point (and we probably are closer to the end now), but they could probably get another 5-10 years out of this insane system.

There is one other thought, and I'd agree it's very unlikely, but at least possible. There have been rumors of a compact signed by most countries around the world to default on the banks, which is one of the reasons they are running debts up so high recently.
 

tankasnowgod

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Money always and everywhere has been based on the mutual trust and productivity of a people. This is why the USD is the global reserve currency. The American People are formidable and have rule of law. The United States has never in its existence cancelled a note. You can literally walk into an American bank and cash a note from 200 years ago. Every country in Europe and Asia has cancelled a note in the last 50 years.

Except the United States hasn't issued money since the 60's, with the possible minor exception of Silver Eagles. The Federal Reserve does that 100% now. Nor is there any sort of backing of these Federal Reserve Notes since Nixon eliminated the Gold Standard in the early 70s. There may have been "mutual trust," but that hasn't stopped the devaluing of that money over the last 40+ years, nor has using US Citizens as surety helped it to hold its value.
 

Gone Peating

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Except the United States hasn't issued money since the 60's, with the possible minor exception of Silver Eagles. The Federal Reserve does that 100% now. Nor is there any sort of backing of these Federal Reserve Notes since Nixon eliminated the Gold Standard in the early 70s. There may have been "mutual trust," but that hasn't stopped the devaluing of that money over the last 40+ years, nor has using US Citizens as surety helped it to hold its value.

The backing of the money is the American taxpayers, we pay the Federal Reserve hundreds of billions of dollars in interest payments every year and every year those payments increase as they continue to accumulate more and more government assets.
Basically the United States is now owned by the Federal Reserve, in theory we're a nation but in reality we truly are a corporation and every citizen is an employee of the FED
The US government's biggest asset is student debt, valued at over a trillion dollars. Our countries biggest asset is debt from education... let that sink in
 

michael94

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The backing of the money is the American taxpayers, we pay the Federal Reserve hundreds of billions of dollars in interest payments every year and every year those payments increase as they continue to accumulate more and more government assets.
Basically the United States is now owned by the Federal Reserve, in theory we're a nation but in reality we truly are a corporation and every citizen is an employee of the FED
The US government's biggest asset is student debt, valued at over a trillion dollars. Our countries biggest asset is debt from education... let that sink in
All true but if there was a "debt jubilee" overnight and the .gov started printing money at their discretion in exchange for materials/labor, the USD would still be the most trusted currency just based on the resources and ability in the United States.
 

michael94

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Actually what I described above would be so incredible for America it is not even funny.
 
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haidut

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I updated the original post with another, more recent study. I am putting the relevant quote here.
"...We also found that 51 most recent crude infection fatality ratio (IFR) and time–delay adjusted IFR is estimated 52 to be 0.04% (95% CrI: 0.03%–0.06%) and 0.12% (95%CrI: 0.08–0.17%), which is 53 several orders of magnitude smaller than the crude CFR estimated at 4.19%."

"...These findings indicate that the death risk in Wuhan is estimated to be much higher than those in other areas, which is likely explained by hospital-based transmission [32]. Indeed, past nosocomial outbreaks have been reported to elevate the CFR associated with MERS and SARS outbreaks, where inpatients affected by underlying disease or seniors infected in the hospital setting have raised the CFR to values as high as 20% for a MERS outbreak [33-34]. Public health authorities are interested in quantifying R and CFR to measure the transmission potential and virulence of an infectious disease, especially when emerging/re emerging epidemics occur in order to decide the intensity of the public health response. In the context of a substantial fraction of unobserved infections due to COVID-19, R estimates derived from the trajectory of infections 280 and the IFR are more realistic indicators compared to estimates derived from observed cases alone [18,35-36]."
 
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tankasnowgod

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I updated the original post with another, more recent study. I am putting the relevant quote here.
"...We also found that 51 most recent crude infection fatality ratio (IFR) and time–delay adjusted IFR is estimated 52 to be 0.04% (95% CrI: 0.03%–0.06%) and 0.12% (95%CrI: 0.08–0.17%), which is 53 several orders of magnitude smaller than the crude CFR estimated at 4.19%."

"...These findings indicate that the death risk in Wuhan is estimated to be much higher than those in other areas, which is likely explained by hospital-based transmission [32]. Indeed, past nosocomial outbreaks have been reported to elevate the CFR associated with MERS and SARS outbreaks, where inpatients affected by underlying disease or seniors infected in the hospital setting have raised the CFR to values as high as 20% for a MERS outbreak [33-34]. Public health authorities are interested in quantifying R and CFR to measure the transmission potential and virulence of an infectious disease, especially when emerging/re emerging epidemics occur in order to decide the intensity of the public health response. In the context of a substantial fraction of unobserved infections due to COVID-19, R estimates derived from the trajectory of infections 280 and the IFR are more realistic indicators compared to estimates derived from observed cases alone [18,35-36]."

I posted this in another thread, but apparently, the President of the Higher Institute of Health in Italy, Silvio Brusaferro, has also made a statement that, in all but two cases of the deceased, patients were also suffering from other chronic diseases-

"Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge.

Coronavirus: Iss, in Italia i decessi accertati finora per causa del Covid-19 sono solo due

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haidut

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I posted this in another thread, but apparently, the President of the Higher Institute of Health in Italy, Silvio Brusaferro, has also made a statement that, in all but two cases of the deceased, patients were also suffering from other chronic diseases-

"Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge.

Coronavirus: Iss, in Italia i decessi accertati finora per causa del Covid-19 sono solo due

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Thanks, I did not see it before posting.
Some forum members in this thread already started trying to change the discussion from mortality rates towards "overwhelming the health system" but I am not convinced about that either. I guess time will tell what this is all truly about...
 
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Mufasa

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Thanks, I did not see it before posting.
Some forum members in this thread already started trying to change the discussion from mortality rates towards "overwhelming the health system" but I am not convinced about that either. I guess time will tell what this is all truly about...

In the Netherlands, of the 100 people tested, 2 die and 15 need to go to hospital and 6 end up on the intensive care. Half of the people on the intensive care are younger than 50. The estimate is that there 6 times more people infected than tested, which means 0.33% die and 1% end up on IC. We dont have enough IC beds in the netherlands to let that freely happen. Below an interview with a doctor in the netherlands, from 13th march, translated by google, Brabant is a province in the Netherlands with most infected people:
Artsen vrezen het ergste: ‘Je schrikt ervan hoe weerloos we zijn’

In a few days, the number of corona patients has increased enormously. The limits of absorption capacity are already coming into view in Brabant. "It is a realistic scenario that we will soon no longer be able to take in the over-80s."

Yes, during his education Mark van der Kuil has had a lecture on disaster medicine. A factory explosion, a bus crash on the highway. And how you deal with a large group of patients who enter the hospital at once. Even then there is triage, says Van der Kuil, medical head of the intensive care unit at Bernhoven hospital in Uden: determining who is eligible for care. "That happens on the basis of medical arguments."

Now he fears another script. "The essence of the story is that we are in a situation where we can no longer help people, just because we don't have the capacity." Then all people over 80 will no longer be helped; and if that does not offer sufficient relief: above 75, or 70, or who knows where it ends. That we will be there in a week and a half, "is really a real scenario."

Because the virus is a poisonous mix of misery, making the total of 1,150 intensive care beds seem far too small - while in times without a pandemic, only 70 percent of those beds are occupied.

The number of patients in hospitals in Brabant has "exploded" in recent days, says Van der Kuil. If you could easily count the patients on one hand a week ago, on Friday morning there were 100 corona patients in the hospitals in Brabant, dozens of them in Uden.

Much impression

That's a snapshot; the actual numbers vary from hour to hour, says Jan Kluytmans, physician-microbiologist at Amphia Hospital in Breda. "Last week we had zero patients, now we already have ten in intensive care." Actually exactly as Kluytmans had predicted at a meeting for employees, now ten days ago. "Although I may be one of the people in the Netherlands who was best prepared for this, it still makes a big impression now that I see it happening in practice."

Ten IC patients may not seem like much, it is not. During a heavy flu year, only ten people at the top of an epidemic with influenza are on the IC of the Amphia, "and we are only now at the beginning." Kluytmans: "Those who still label this virus as an ordinary flu now show really reprehensible behavior."

That is why all parties in Brabant care now meet every day about the latest state of affairs and "cars start driving from three sides if one hospital is without masks," says Bart Berden, chairman of the board of the Elisabeth TweeSteden Hospital in Tilburg. Hospitals have also decided to try to increase the number of intensive care beds as much as possible. From about 200 now in Brabant, to a maximum of 350. But then every ventilator, every operating room, every recovery room is also in use. And nurses have been hastily trained to operate the complex respiratory equipment.

Hospitals are adjusting their schedules, retired nurses are asking if they can help, anyone with IC experience is going to run services.

Carnival

The question is whether it is enough. Because when the hospitals above the rivers also fill up, those alternative options will also be cut off. Nobody knows exactly how this will turn out, says microbiologist Kluytmans, and what scenario this virus will stick to. The rise may be leveling off, as Carnival has proven to be a hot spot for infections, and those who contracted it are now hitting the hospital at a peak - taking into account an incubation period of five days, plus seven days until major health symptoms the people who contracted the virus now reach the hospital. It could also be that the increase continues unabated.

Kluytmans: "Everyone expects the prime minister or the experts to know. But we don't know exactly either, we just don't have all the information about the virus yet. We learn every day. "What he already knows:" This is the pandemic we've been warned about for decades. This is just real. And then you are shocked by how defenseless you are. "The virus really does not only kill old people, says intensivist Van der Kuil. "I also have someone aged 26 in the hospital." There are also a striking number of young people in Amphia Hospital, who have few known problems. Although the elderly are still clearly in the majority.

In addition, about a third of patients admitted to hospital eventually have to go to intensive care because of lung failure. "That's really shocking," says the doctor, a percentage whose politicians don't seem to understand the impact yet. "We do not know this figure in any clinical picture.
 
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Wagner83

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7730 confirmed cases in France, 2579 in hospital, 699 in intensive care (without help, they don't breathe and die). 7 % of deaths are people younger than 62.
 

Gone Peating

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All true but if there was a "debt jubilee" overnight and the .gov started printing money at their discretion in exchange for materials/labor, the USD would still be the most trusted currency just based on the resources and ability in the United States.

Yes we are the best of the worst. For the past 100 years or so the powers controlling America have made sure every other nation is much worse off comparatively
 

Mufasa

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Interesting way of saying "93% of Deaths are 62 and older."

In the netherlands all deaths are 60+, but from people on the intensive care half are younger than 50. So you are not likely to die when you are young, but equally likely to end up for weeks on the IC with artificial breathing.
 

Giraffe

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I noticed in the video, that the patients hardly were covered with blankets (more or less only the private parts were covered). I have seen this before, when visiting family with pneumonia in hospital. The window or a door or often both were open, but the sedated patient was lying there with noting covering the chest. Patients who are not sedated wear kind of a tunic that is completely open at the back, and the nurses often do not bother to close the door when they enter the room. The door just stays open until they have done their job and leave the room again. This is just my personal experience.
 

yerrag

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Money always and everywhere has been based on the mutual trust and productivity of a people.

That hasn't been the case for quite a while. There are too many parasites feeding off its system. The host is too weakened, saddled with enormous debt and a high cost structure. There is a lack of political will to address serious issues.
Yes we are the best of the worst. For the past 100 years or so the powers controlling America have made sure every other nation is much worse off comparatively
The US dollar will lose its status when the empire falls. In a faux democracy, there is no empire to fall. No emperor. If at all, the emperor is decentralized into various centers of power: the military, backed by publicly traded defense contractors, and the American investing public , and by the American lower class, whom the military employs for wars; the lawmaking body, Congress, backed by lobbyists and PACS, backed by AIPAC and by various industrial lobby groups ranked from profitability- war-making and defense, disease and drugs, thought and fear manipulation and social media, pyramid schemes and wealth building, protection rackets and the legal profession etc. Ditto with the executive branch and the judicial branch.

Under this system, anything that is true is marginalized. To work hard is not enough. Working hard at lying, or perpetuating the lie, is key.

Aligning the American center, its middle class to the interest of these power centers keeps the enpire stable, just like a large ship - immovable and when it moves, is slow to change direction. Their nest egg is precious. It must be secure, and the security is ensured when they resist any attempt to rock the boat. Rocking the boat diminishes and weakens this empire. To that end, middle Anerica votes for its nest egg, tied in with the highly bloated stock market, cheap money enabled by the Fed printing of fake money, and perpetual wars that ensure control of strategic resources as well as the containment of threats to its hegemony.

The dollar's strength lies in the invisible power structure that allows the full spectrum of American society to bless and indirectly participate in the use of power to perpetuate false narratives. The US dollar is strong. While it holds no intrinsic value, it is propped up by the sense that there is no better alternative. Made possible by an empire that is hard to bring down.

However hard China tries, it has already lost. It is winning on the US' terms. It is merely replicating the US model. It's building a bubble just as bad as that of the US. The dictum "If you can't beat them, join them" aptly applies here. In this way, China perpetuates US empire, just as the vassal states do.

It's a world of magic, interlopers, wannabes and vassals. Take your pick.
 
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