Mortality Rate Of COVID-19 Is 0.5%, Much Lower Than CDC / WHO Claims

[Whichway?]

Well, if COVID 19 already spread through the majority of the population, neither intervention will have any affect. And there's a very good chance that is did, over the winter-

Could CDC Data Prove COVID-19 Infections in November 2019? - UncoverDC

That's a bold claim. We won't know the answer to how many people have had the illness until an antibody test is available.

The estimates from Wuhan are that 81% do only experience a mild illness so this could have been responsible for the uptick in influenza like illness seen in late stages of 2019 in the US. However about 15% experience more serious illness and 5% experience critical illness and half of these die. So where was the uptick in critical illness patients and deaths if that article is correct that it has already burned through the US population. It only talked about an increase in reports of influenza like illness. If people had reported to ICU with severe difficulty breathing and required ventilation and a chest x-ray revealed widespread lung inflammation, the doctors would have recognised and reported it as something different to flu. They did not do this, so either all the doctors in the US are stupid or negligent or both.

Seriously, if you really believe that COVID 19 is **more** infectious than the flu, why would you believe it's juuuuust now showing up in places like the United States, which is at the end of the flu season? How can it simultaneously be more infectious, and incredibly slow to spread?

It is more infectious. For every person with the flu they infect something like 1.4 - 1.6 other people via aerosol transmission. Covid-19 infects about 2.2 people. I don't just believe it, it is what the evidence demonstrates.

 

[tankasnowgod]

That's a bold claim. We won't know the answer to how many people have had the illness until an antibody test is available.

The estimates from Wuhan are that 81% do only experience a mild illness so this could have been responsible for the uptick in influenza like illness seen in late stages of 2019 in the US. However about 15% experience more serious illness and 5% experience critical illness and half of these die. So where was the uptick in critical illness patients and deaths if that article is correct that it has already burned through the US population. It only talked about an increase in reports of influenza like illness. If people had reported to ICU with severe difficulty breathing and required ventilation and a chest x-ray revealed widespread lung inflammation, the doctors would have recognised and reported it as something different to flu. They did not do this, so either all the doctors in the US are stupid or negligent or both.

It is more infectious. For every person with the flu they infect something like 1.4 - 1.6 other people via aerosol transmission. Covid-19 infects about 2.2 people. I don't just believe it, it is what the evidence demonstrates.

Interesting how you are willing to put unwavering faith in health estimates from Wuhan, and assume that they must hold true for any other area the disease travels to, or any other seasonal time period. If you had looked at the stats for Spanish Flu, you would know that mortality and severity varied drastically from area to area and during different seasons within the same area.

 

[RealNeat]

Not being worried about it doesn't protect people, it endangers them.
Viruses are not all the same. Covid-19 is not the flu.

Who do you think would take care of all the elders and the many other vulnerable people if covid-19 became really is widespread?

+1


Look at the trends - eg doubling times.



Flu is a significant killer. The fact that it's endemic, and therefore not often news, doesn't make it trivial.
Measures that reduce infection rates should reduce flu too. Adding covid-19 deaths at a rate similar to flu would be very significant.
The current estimates taking into account the measures being taken are higher than annual flu's (eg 100 000+). Without these measures, estimates are much higher.

Here you can track stats and trends, by country and world. There's some explanation about how to understand the stats:
Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) – Statistics and Research


Yet. It's still only spread to a small fraction of the population.

Proof of that last claim is needed...

 

[Whichway?]

Interesting how you are willing to put unwavering faith in health estimates from Wuhan, and assume that they must hold true for any other area the disease travels to, or any other seasonal time period. If you had looked at the stats for Spanish Flu, you would know that mortality and severity varied drastically from area to area and during different seasons within the same area.

So? What's your point? I'm not placing unwavering faith in it. When doctors take the time to write up the stats from Italy, Spain, Germany, Britain, US, etc I will use those as well. Sure they will vary from place to place, however the clinical picture that caused doctors in Wuhan to first contact the WHO to register that they had several cases of unusual flu probably will not vary by location.

No doctors in the US contacted the WHO to report unusual cases of flu. Sure there was an uptick of reports to doctors of flu in the US, but there were not people making it to hospital and presenting with lung x-rays showing widespread inflammation and breathing difficulties. There are symptomatic elements of Covid-19 which are different from flu, and it affects age groups in a different way to influenza. These differences alerted the doctors in Wuhan that this was not flu. These types of cases were either NOT SEEN or NOT REPORTED in the US.

 

[tankasnowgod]

No doctors in the US contacted the WHO to report unusual cases of flu. Sure there was an uptick of reports to doctors of flu in the US, but there were not people making it to hospital and presenting with lung x-rays showing widespread inflammation and breathing difficulties. There are symptomatic elements of Covid-19 which are different from flu, and it affects age groups in a different way to influenza. These differences alerted the doctors in Wuhan that this was not flu. These types of cases were either NOT SEEN or NOT REPORTED in the US.

So?

The conditions in Wuhan aren't like the conditions in the US. Wuhan has notoriously bad air pollution, which is known to damage lungs. You don't need any virus to have lung inflammation and breathing difficulties, or even full blown pneumonia in Wuhan. You just have to go outside and breathe the air.

Pollution isn't the flu. And the combo of a new virus plus pollution could be what is responsible.

You might not see as severe inflammation and breathing difficulties in the US, as the air quality is far better, even in some of the most polluted cities.

 

[Whichway?]

So?

The conditions in Wuhan aren't like the conditions in the US. Wuhan has notoriously bad air pollution, which is known to damage lungs. You don't need any virus to have lung inflammation and breathing difficulties, or even full blown pneumonia in Wuhan. You just have to go outside and breathe the air.

Pollution isn't the flu. And the combo of a new virus plus pollution could be what is responsible.

You might not see as severe inflammation and breathing difficulties in the US, as the air quality is far better, even in some of the most polluted cities.

While the pollution is worse in Wuhan (which it is) it does not produce the unusual “ground glass” lesions seen on the chest x-rays of critical Covid-19 sufferers;

What is killing the thousands in other countries like the US which doesn’t have the same level of pollution?
Why does it present a different clinical picture to that associated with influenza?
Why are the x-ray images and patterns from Covid sufferers the same from country to country, but different to that seen with flu?

 

[tankasnowgod]

While the pollution is worse in Wuhan (which it is) it does not produce the unusual “ground glass” lesions seen on the chest x-rays of critical Covid-19 sufferers;

What is killing the thousands in other countries like the US which doesn’t have the same level of pollution?
Why does it present a different clinical picture to that associated with influenza?
Why are the x-ray images and patterns from Covid sufferers the same from country to country, but different to that seen with flu?

Well, prove that last one, by posting at least 10 Xrays from, say, 6 different countries, and let's see the images and patterns be the same across those minimum sixty images.

There isn't proof that COVID 19 has killed thousands, anywhere. It's merely been "associated" with tens of thousands of deaths. Not the same thing. And you are falling into the trap of thinking it always has to be "one" cause. Jon Rappoport makes that point clearly here- COVID: It’s not one thing, it’s not one disease « Jon Rappoport's Blog

If you've seen breakdowns of the numbers from both Italy and New York City you would notice that the overwhelming majority of deaths (80-90% or higher) had serious underlying conditions, like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and hypertension.

 

[Whichway?]

Well, prove that last one, by posting at least 10 Xrays from, say, 6 different countries, and let's see the images and patterns be the same across those minimum sixty images.

Mate....I don't have access to that many x-ray images. I am basing what I say based on peer reviewed science papers made by people that do this for a living. However I'm sure those findings won't convince you

There isn't proof that COVID 19 has killed thousands, anywhere. It's merely been "associated" with tens of thousands of deaths. Not the same thing. And you are falling into the trap of thinking it always has to be "one" cause. Jon Rappoport makes that point clearly here- COVID: It’s not one thing, it’s not one disease « Jon Rappoport's Blog

If you've seen breakdowns of the numbers from both Italy and New York City you would notice that the overwhelming majority of deaths (80-90% or higher) had serious underlying conditions, like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and hypertension.

Why the semantics. I read that blog link. If this was normal influenza killing these people, it's still influenza that would be causing the death blow. Sure many of these people don't need a lot of help due to underlying conditions, but it is the virus that is putting them into hospital requiring treatment, and no doubt their underlying conditions don't increase their chances, but I don't see any problem in listing the cause of death as the virus.

Analogy, if you have diabetes and have lost your job, got divorced recently and have gone to the bar because you are pissed off with life. You drink 6 beers and drive home and hit a pole and have to go to hospital for intensive care but die because of your injuries. Rappaport would argue that the diabetes or long term stress caused your death, not the collision with the pole.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Mate....I don't have access to that many x-ray images. I am basing what I say based on peer reviewed science papers made by people that do this for a living. However I'm sure those findings won't convince you

Then post the studies. You've posted nothing.

Why the semantics. I read that blog link. If this was normal influenza killing these people, it's still influenza that would be causing the death blow. Sure many of these people don't need a lot of help due to underlying conditions, but it is the virus that is putting them into hospital requiring treatment, and no doubt their underlying conditions don't increase their chances, but I don't see any problem in listing the cause of death as the virus.

Analogy, if you have diabetes and have lost your job, got divorced recently and have gone to the bar because you are pissed off with life. You drink 6 beers and drive home and hit a pole and have to go to hospital for intensive care but die because of your injuries. Rappaport would argue that the diabetes or long term stress caused your death, not the collision with the pole.

Ridiculous. Many cancer patients get pneumonia right near the end of their lives, often in hospice care. You really think the cause of death should be listed as "pneumonia," and not "cancer?"

Your analogy is silly. It's obvious trauma that would be the cause of death in that situation, and you wouldn't need something like a PCR test to diagnose it. That cause of death could have just as easily been made in the 1960s. For COVID 19, the only way it can be listed as a cause of death is either through using a very specific test like the PCR or antibody test, or from pressure to classify the death as such. Forget the 60's, no one would even list the same cause of death in May of 2019.

 

[Whichway?]

Ridiculous. Many cancer patients get pneumonia right near the end of their lives, often in hospice care. You really think the cause of death should be listed as "pneumonia," and not "cancer?"

From what I can see doing a quick perusal of how cause of death is listed, that is how it is done.

The immediate cause of death being the illness which precipitated the train of events leading to death, followed by any underlying conditions which contributed to the patients health. So the cause of death would be bronchopneumonia with underlying conditions listed after that.

 

[Dave Clark]

Back when AIDS was rampant, didn't most, if not all, of them die from infections and other complications caused by their weak immune system that was a result of the disease? They had no problem saying these people died of AIDS, you didn't hear on the news that any of the victims of that disease died of pneumonia, fungal infections, liver failure, etc., etc.

 

[tara]

They had no problem saying these people died of AIDS, you didn't hear on the news that any of the victims of that disease died of pneumonia, fungal infections, liver failure, etc., etc.

Do you know what was on their medical certificates?

 

[Dave Clark]

Do you know what was on their medical certificates?

I really do not. I just recall the media reporting death rates from people dying of AIDS, but then when you read into it and understand what the disease is, you find out that these people are dying from complications, i.e. infections, etc. brought on by the disease. I would like to know myself what the official cause of death was, but it certainly was reported by the media as AIDS being the cause of death. Conversely, it would seem that the corona infection will get the credit for death, even if a person has a terminal disease.

 

[SOMO]

Back when AIDS was rampant, didn't most, if not all, of them die from infections and other complications caused by their weak immune system that was a result of the disease? They had no problem saying these people died of AIDS, you didn't hear on the news that any of the victims of that disease died of pneumonia, fungal infections, liver failure, etc., etc.

Their immune system was suppressed because of recreational drugs. As in, street drugs.

What are the unique risks associated with nitrite abuse?

Animal research raises the possibility that there may also be a link between abuse of nitrites and the development and progression of infectious diseases and tumors. The research indicates that inhaling nitrites depletes many cells in the immune system and impairs mechanisms that fight infectious diseases. A study found that even a relatively small number of exposures to butyl nitrite can produce dramatic increases in tumor incidence and growth rate in animals.

Impact of methamphetamine on infection and immunity

The prevalence of methamphetamine (METH) use is estimated at ~35 million people worldwide, with over 10 million users in the United States. METH use elicits a myriad of social consequences and the behavioral impact of the drug is well understood. However, new information has recently emerged detailing the devastating effects of METH on host immunity, increasing the acquisition of diverse pathogens and exacerbating the severity of disease. These outcomes manifest as modifications in protective physical and chemical defenses, pro-inflammatory responses, and the induction of oxidative stress pathways. Through these processes, significant neurotoxicities arise, and, as such, chronic abusers with these conditions are at a higher risk for heightened consequences. METH use also influences the adaptive immune response, permitting the unrestrained development of opportunistic diseases. In this review, we discuss recent literature addressing the impact of METH on infection and immunity, and identify areas ripe for future investigation.

In vivo effects of cocaine on immune cell function. - PubMed - NCBI

Cocaine use has been shown to increase the risk of HIV infection in humans, and this increased risk cannot be explained by i.v. drug use alone. It is thought that this increased susceptibility may be a result of decreased immune responsiveness in cocaine addicts. Scientists are now using animal models to study the effects of cocaine on immune function in vivo under controlled conditions.

Microbial Infections, Immunomodulation, and Drugs of Abuse

Effects of cocaine on immune functions
Mode of administration Immune functiona Reference(s)
In vivo
    Humans ↓Antimicrobial activity 14
↑↓Cytokine production 14
    Rodents ↓Lymphoproliferation 20, 21, 171
↓Antibody formation 166, 253
↓DTH 253
↓↑Humoral immunity 11
↑↓Cytokine production 250
In vitro
    Humans ↑HIV replication 12, 177
↓Lymphocyte proliferation 23, 49, 109
↓Cytokine production 131, 132
    Rodents ↓Cytokine production 250, 254, 262
↓Lymphocyte proliferation 262
↓NK activity 262

I really do not. I just recall the media reporting death rates from people dying of AIDS, but then when you read into it and understand what the disease is, you find out that these people are dying from complications, i.e. infections, etc. brought on by the disease. I would like to know myself what the official cause of death was, but it certainly was reported by the media as AIDS being the cause of death. Conversely, it would seem that the corona infection will get the credit for death, even if a person has a terminal disease.

I can only speak to personal experience, but I know many gay men in NYC with HIV who take their meds diligently, daily and comply with their doctors...but they consume massive amounts of hard, toxic street drugs.

As if a pill was going to save them.

 

[Dave Clark]

I was friends with two guys, who were gay, I am not, but I got to know them through my Mom who was a hairdresser, and so were they. They both got HIV and died of AIDS complications, they did not do drugs. I also am friends with a guy whose daughter contracted HIV through non-protected sex with a drug user. She has been on the cocktail for years and did not go into AIDS, she is alive and in relatively good health. I want to see evidence that every person that died from AIDS was on drugs, and therefore died of AIDS because of the drug use. I have never heard of that correlation.
The point I was making is the medical profession is rife with mistakes or deceit, and nobody is really going to know if these deaths from COVID-19 were really 'caused' by that virus, or caused by a preexisting terminal condition. Trust the stats if you want to, I do not.

 

[SOMO]

I was friends with two guys, who were gay, I am not, but I got to know them through my Mom who was a hairdresser, and so were they. They both got HIV and died of AIDS complications, they did not do drugs. I also am friends with a guy whose daughter contracted HIV through non-protected sex with a drug user. She has been on the cocktail for years and did not go into AIDS, she is alive and in relatively good health. I want to see evidence that every person that died from AIDS was on drugs, and therefore died of AIDS because of the drug use. I have never heard of that correlation.
The point I was making is the medical profession is rife with mistakes or deceit, and nobody is really going to know if these deaths from COVID-19 were really 'caused' by that virus, or caused by a preexisting terminal condition. Trust the stats if you want to, I do not.

1. How do you know they didn't do drugs?

2. Did they have multiple sexual partners, as most gay men do? Many gay men can have over 300+ sexual a year and each encounter is a possible exposure to not just HIV, but every STD under the sun. Multiple-simultaneous infections are likely magnitudes more damaging than a single infection.

3. Even if they didn't do drugs, if they consumed or received semen rectally - which most gays do - that is enough to damage the immune system.

4. Alloimmunization caused by semen in the rectum causes an immune reaction.

5. The anus is also prone to microscopic tears/bleeding and if semen enters the bloodstream, there is a strong immune response.

 

[Dave Clark]

1. How do you know they didn't do drugs?

2. Did they have multiple sexual partners, as most gay men do? Many gay men can have over 300+ sexual a year and each encounter is a possible exposure to not just HIV, but every STD under the sun. Multiple-simultaneous infections are likely magnitudes more damaging than a single infection.

3. Even if they didn't do drugs, if they consumed or received semen rectally - which most gays do - that is enough to damage the immune system.

4. Alloimmunization caused by semen in the rectum causes an immune reaction.

5. The anus is also prone to microscopic tears/bleeding and if semen enters the bloodstream, there is a strong immune response.

I don't why you are going back and forth with me, you are only proving my point, that the virus itself is not what causes the problem, it is the weak immune system. I am done with this conversation, and still asserting that people who die from AIDS, corona virus most likely die from other complications. People who get HIV don't necessarily die from AIDS, and people who get the corona virus don't necessarily die form the virus, they can, but it all depends on the host.

 

[Inaut]

I read a tweet that US has revised mortality rate estimate to 60,000 in the U.S. Down from whatever it was. I see it dropping lower following next week. Looking like a slightly worse flu season than usual :)

 

[Gone Peating]

I read a tweet that US has revised mortality rate estimate to 60,000 in the U.S. Down from whatever it was. I see it dropping lower following next week. Looking like a slightly worse flu season than usual :)

Unfortunately they will take all the credit and this will be most likely be the new norm

 

[thomas00]

Yes, I've been wondering if the CDC, the WHO and all the other health bodies and their media amplifiers are going to get away with this. There's obviously no shortage of bad ideas in medicine that have hung around for years that we can point to and be pessimistic about the prospect that this mass incompetence will be exposed.

I think there is only so many times that these kind of stuff ups can be made though before the weight of criticism becomes too much to ignore. It's no surprise that a lot of the critics of this latest alleged pandemic have come from the German medical and scientific communities. They've had investigations into the WHO's abysmal track record so many must have had their bull**** detectors at the ready.