Morning Jogging, Yay Or Nay?

maryjanexx

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Hello! Just a quick question I wanted to through out there. I've read mixed things on the Internet and "adrenal reset" books about exercise first thing in the morning. I've been doing it for years now, and emotionally I think it definitely puts me in a better place than when I don't.

But, is exercising in a fasted state the first thing in the morning skyrocketing my cortisol levels? Or is there something to be said for de-stressing (mentally at least) right away in the AM? I heard is helps fasting glucose, but the internet is a dangerous place for health and fitness advice.

Note: I usually go on a jog for about 45 minutes or moderate elliptical-ing for 50.
 

Makrosky

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Hello! Just a quick question I wanted to through out there. I've read mixed things on the Internet and "adrenal reset" books about exercise first thing in the morning. I've been doing it for years now, and emotionally I think it definitely puts me in a better place than when I don't.

But, is exercising in a fasted state the first thing in the morning skyrocketing my cortisol levels? Or is there something to be said for de-stressing (mentally at least) right away in the AM? I heard is helps fasting glucose, but the internet is a dangerous place for health and fitness advice.

Note: I usually go on a jog for about 45 minutes or moderate elliptical-ing for 50.
You run 45 minutes without having anything for breakfast? Yes you're right you can find everything on the internet but from a Peat perspective what you're doing is a big NO-NO.
Try doing it having had breakfast before (vert easily digestible) and see the difference.
 

thegiantess

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If you exercise without eating, and therefore fasting all night... And also at a slow pace, you're forcing your body to burn fat. That's the first problem. Second problem hinges on what Haidut pointed out on a generative energy show; that if you are exercising to feel good, it's a crutch. You are relying on the release of adrenaline and endorphins to give you a high.. Stress hormones are making you feel better in the short term. I totally get the exercising because it feels good thing, but I think from a bioenergetic perspective it is stressful.
 

Makrosky

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If you exercise without eating, and therefore fasting all night... And also at a slow pace, you're forcing your body to burn fat. That's the first problem. Second problem hinges on what Haidut pointed out on a generative energy show; that if you are exercising to feel good, it's a crutch. You are relying on the release of adrenaline and endorphins to give you a high.. Stress hormones are making you feel better in the short term. I totally get the exercising because it feels good thing, but I think from a bioenergetic perspective it is stressful.
Exercise is (or should be) normally fun and made outdoors and socializing and lots of other mind/emotion factors that help you feel good. I'm not saying the stress hormones thing is incorret but there's more than that.
Sitting in the sofa taking thyroid hormone is much worse than pumping adrenaline playing football with friends, trekking in nature or socializing with your buddies in the gym.Of course I'm not talking about the people who can only feel good if they run every day, and otherwise they feel bad. That's pathological.
 

thegiantess

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Exercise is (or should be) normally fun and made outdoors and socializing and lots of other mind/emotion factors that help you feel good. I'm not saying the stress hormones thing is incorret but there's more than that.
Sitting in the sofa taking thyroid hormone is much worse than pumping adrenaline playing football with friends, trekking in nature or socializing with your buddies in the gym.Of course I'm not talking about the people who can only feel good if they run every day, and otherwise they feel bad. That's pathological.

I agree with you, I was talking about the people that need to exercise to feel good. For example, I have a very dear friend who has severe depression, never eats, has a host of issues and the only time she feels okay is when she is running. And then she feels badly again afterward. That's no Bueno. I think the OP hinted that the exercise is used to de stres. I would think that's not a good way to look at it, especially whilst also forcing yourself to burn fat.
 

Greg says

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Hello! Just a quick question I wanted to through out there. I've read mixed things on the Internet and "adrenal reset" books about exercise first thing in the morning. I've been doing it for years now, and emotionally I think it definitely puts me in a better place than when I don't.

But, is exercising in a fasted state the first thing in the morning skyrocketing my cortisol levels? Or is there something to be said for de-stressing (mentally at least) right away in the AM? I heard is helps fasting glucose, but the internet is a dangerous place for health and fitness advice.

Note: I usually go on a jog for about 45 minutes or moderate elliptical-ing for 50.

'A walk through interesting and pleasant surroundings consumes more energy than does harder but more boring exercise. An activate brain consumes a tremendous amount of fuel...'

'Besides causing stress, oestrogen levels are increased by stress. For example, a male runner’s oestrogen is often doubled after a race.'

'Men who went for a run before breakfast were found to have broken chromosomes in their blood cells, but if they ate breakfast before running, their chromosomes weren’t damaged.'

'Exercise increases blood clotting, and so can increase the risk of strokes and heart attacks. Some doctors have been reporting increase incidence of flat feet, varicose veins, and prolapsed uterus among runners. Walking is a better form of exercise.' - Ray Peat
 

Integral

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Only tangentially relevant but I went for a run a few days ago and the next day I was so tired I couldn't move all day LOL I felt kinda bummed because of that....
 

Nighteyes

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Anecdotally I have experienced great benefits of quitting long distance running.. Somehow it makes sense to me that of course we are meant to be able to run from an evolutionary standpoint but mainly in bursts of sprinting and not every day for many miles at a time.

Sprinting (for mere seconds at a time) seems to boost my metabolism and I dont feel addicted to it the same way long distance made me feel. Another important point is to reach homeostasis I guess it is called between sprints. So complete control over breathing before next sprint.
 

James_001

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Exercise is (or should be) normally fun and made outdoors and socializing and lots of other mind/emotion factors that help you feel good. I'm not saying the stress hormones thing is incorret but there's more than that.
Sitting in the sofa taking thyroid hormone is much worse than pumping adrenaline playing football with friends, trekking in nature or socializing with your buddies in the gym.Of course I'm not talking about the people who can only feel good if they run every day, and otherwise they feel bad. That's pathological.

If you're healthy sure, but for me even exercising with other people kills my metabolism at this point...
 
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maryjanexx

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Thanks for the replies everyone!

My body has become pretty accustomed to morning fasted workouts, as I actually don't feel any weakness, less power, etc. during them. I like them better because my food isn't coming up at random points during my workout...

In response to a few posters here, I just wanted to through out some little facts on distinguishing stress-reducing vs. stress-causing exercise (as if there is a thing):
  • I don't exercise every morning before breakfast. It is usually only 3 days a week.
  • 'Exercise increases blood clotting, and so can increase the risk of strokes and heart attacks. Some doctors have been reporting increase incidence of flat feet, varicose veins, and prolapsed uterus among runners. Walking is a better form of exercise.' - Ray Peat I actually do have flat feet, but I've had them since I can remember (footprints at the pool never looked "pretty" like the other kids haha). Walking actually makes my leg muscles tense up way more than running. And in fact, sprinting loosens them up the most, especially my hamstrings/glutes.
  • I don't exercise pathologically. I had issues years prior with not feeling "good" when I didn't work out, but now I am definitely doing it from a much more positive and social perspective--it helps vs. hurts my mental state. 99% of the time I run outdoors over anything else, love being out in the fresh air. If I am doing a strength workout it is always with someone else, so there is that social aspect. And, if I am on the elliptical I use it as my time to find new music, read articles, etc. since it doesn't require much coordination. I don't do fitness for fitness, it's a positive way to get out of my house haha.
  • 'Men who went for a run before breakfast were found to have broken chromosomes in their blood cells, but if they ate breakfast before running, their chromosomes weren’t damaged.' I'll have to read more into this.
  • 'Besides causing stress, oestrogen levels are increased by stress. For example, a male runner’s oestrogen is often doubled after a race.' Is there any correlation between this and the fact that they are racing? Honestly that's the reason why I don't run any races, even though I could easily pull of a half marathon. It would strip it of all the fun! Turning my hobby into a competition just ruins it for me. I will only run the occasional 5k for fun, and if a family member suggests it.
  • Also, I agree that it might be a crutch, something that makes me feel good, but where is the defining line between hobby and crutch? I don't believe that everything that makes me feel good (books, music, art) is me using it as a crutch in life.
 

mt_dreams

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When exercising in the morning in a fasted state, the danger with cortisol is due to the fact that it's already elevated, then you are increasing it even more by stressing the body. This is why taking in some sugar can lower the double whammy cortisol hit. The sugar can be anything from lemonaide, oj, sugar cane water, etc. Running on a full stomach is just as negative as running in a fasted state, so eating breakfast, and then going out for a run is not any better.

Ideally you want to get in some sugar and some electrolysis that you will soon deplete during the run. The benefit of taking in only sucrose is that you will probably avoid the feeling of food coming back up during the run, which usually comes with longer digesting macros like fat & protein.

In the end, if you cannot tolerate even simple sucrose before a run, then just stick with what you're doing (as it appears you enjoy running), but make sure to get the proper testing done every so often to insure nothing is changing behind the scenes. Keeping a pace that will allow you to contentiously breath through you nose is a good indicator that you're not pushing too hard. Most people above 25/30 need more than 1 days to recover from exercise, so if you notice even a little bit of soreness, then you may want to hold off the next run until it's gone.

Also have you tested the difference b/w a 15 minute run & a 45 min one? You might be able to derive the same feeling from a shorter run. I've noticed I get the same feeling from 6-8 30 second sprints that I would with a long jog.
 

tara

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Unless you have exceptionally strong glycogen storage, I think this makes sense:
Stress hormones are making you feel better in the short term. I totally get the exercising because it feels good thing, but I think from a bioenergetic perspective it is stressful.

I think you would probably better off getting some fuel into you before morning exercise.
Running with your mouth shut will serve you better than with it open, even if you have to slow down to do it.

You may be able to get more information about the effect of the running on your metabolism by monitoring your temps and resting heart-rate before and after exercise, and on days when you don't. If they go lower on exercise days, that may indicate it's more burden than support to your metabolism at the moment. If temps and heart-rate are good whatever, that's a good sign.
 

Makrosky

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  • 99% of the time I run outdoors over anything else, love being out in the fresh air. If I am doing a strength workout it is always with someone else, so there is that social aspect. And, if I am on the elliptical I use it as my time to find new music, read articles, etc. since it doesn't require much coordination. I don't do fitness for fitness, it's a positive way to get out of my house haha.
  • Also, I agree that it might be a crutch, something that makes me feel good, but where is the defining line between hobby and crutch? I don't believe that everything that makes me feel good (books, music, art) is me using it as a crutch in life.

Good points.

That's a very good mindset I would say. And the positives outcome the negatives. BUT theoretically what you're doing is not proper and can be improved. Follow mt_dreams suggestions. Try some liquid nutrition before the workout. OJ is acid and might disturb you but what about a tablespoon or two of honey dissolved in warm water, or even better, in a glass of warm milk ? Try it! Ray Peat is all about self-experimenting. If you take it 20-30 mins before the workout I don't think it's gonna upset your stomach.
 

Tarmander

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A good test would be to do as Makrosky suggests, and see if you feel worse. If taking in some carbs before your run makes you feel really bad during your run, it's a good sign that you are running on stress hormones. There are people who skip breakfast and one thing that happens to them over time is eating in the morning starts to feel bad. They say that not eating, they feel invigorated and energetic, and eating breakfast makes them feel sluggish and tired. It is a pretty good indication you are in stress hormones if you are in that boat.
 
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maryjanexx

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Thanks for all the responses guys! I have an off day tomorrow so I'll do some checking in with the body temps and see what's going on. When should I be checking, waking and then on running days how long after a run?

All those fueling ideas are really great. I don't think I'm gonna get any solid food down that early, especially since I'm usually out the door within 30 minutes of waking, but some sort of fruit juice wouldn't be the worst thing,

Breakfast in the morning is hit or miss with me, keeping it light and easily digestible is fine. But, I don't think I'll ever be one of those "eat breakfast like a king" people. I prefer a large meal at night, probably because of my lighter breakfast and lunches and my am workout preference.
 

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