More Than One Method Of Gauging Hunger?

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
As one who seldom experiences hunger but frequently experiences cold nose, hands, feet I was intrigued with the following statement by Dr Peat:

"When the liver is the main cause of hypothyroidism, your temperature (and especially the temperature of your nose, hands and feet) will fall when hungry, and will rise when you eat carbohydrates."

After reading an Adele Davis book and her take on hunger and blood sugar levels I emailed Dr Peat. I am posting my question to him and his reply:

Dr Peat,
In one of Adele Davis' books she comments that hunger does not occur until blood sugar drops to 70 or below and that most Americans have blood sugar levels of 90 or above twelve hours after eating their evening meal; therefore, do not experience true hunger in the mornings. How does this relate to hypoglycemia in the context of trying to "keep it at a good level" by frequent food intake. Does this mean keeping it high in regards to what ones normal fasting level is (perhaps 90 or above), or high in regards to being above 70 (indicating hunger)? If one never feels hungry could this be because blood sugar is always 15 to 20 points above 70? What is happening when the cold nose of adrenalin surge occurs with a blood sugar level of 90 or above?

Dr Peat's Reply:
"A really healthy person can go all day on stored glycogen, but most people deplete the glycogen quickly, then produce cortisol to convert tissue protein to glucose, and while doing that, shift to using more fat. The fat blocks the use of glucose, so it can raise blood glucose. In the 1940s and ‘50s the average american had a different metabolism. With fatty acids interfering with glucose oxidation, creating “insulin resistance,” adrenaline is secreted even when the blood glucose level seems good."

Since, for some people, blood sugar levels may not be an accurate gauge of the body's need for fuel, warmth of extremities is a better gauge of when it's time to refuel the body. Eating when one does not feel hungry has been a challenge for me. Anyone else have a comment on this?
 

paymanz

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
2,707
You have high adrenaline maybe.

As ray mentioned, insulin resistance and high adrenalin comes afterwards.

Probably the solution has something to do with them.

Salt is important but I'm sure you get enough salt.
 
OP
D

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
Thank you for your comments. Actually I think salt intake is insufficient and have been trying to increase it. I have previously been more focused on sugar/carbs/blood sugar levels. More carbs ended up with higher triglycerides and a feeling of constantly stuffing myself. Thus the questions on blood sugar and hunger symptoms.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Since, for some people, blood sugar levels may not be an accurate gauge of the body's need for fuel, warmth of extremities is a better gauge of when it's time to refuel the body. Eating when one does not feel hungry has been a challenge for me. Anyone else have a comment on this?
If I wait till I have strong hunger signals every time, then I only have a very short window of opportunity before I get from hungry and ready to eat now, to distressed and hangry. Sometimes life can't be organised around eating like that - getting hungry when I have to be doing something else.

I'm trying, when possible, to more often honour Gwyneth Olwyn's approach: she says normal eating is not to eat when you feel really hungry, but to eat when you think of eating. If I override that too much, I can get into trouble.
 
OP
D

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
Thanks Tara. I agree with what you say about waiting too long and having no readily available means to remedy the hunger, and like the approach of eating when its thought of. Thanks for sharing that.

I am beginning to wonder if blood sugar numbers are of much value unless they run way too high. I know I'd be starving at BS of 70, but that certainly isn't a goal to strive for just to see what it feels like. I'm curious, but not that curious. Since that isn't going to happen, relying on how I feel based on warmth of extremities is the option. I don't know how reliable that actually is either and probably presents the same issue of it being too late once its begun. More fine tuning on that signaling system would probably help me. I recall many occasions of ignoring that first inkling of cold nose - thinking, I can't possibly be hungry.... Might help if I changed that thought from hunger signal to being out of fuel signal and try to eat a little bit, not a full meal. Just a tiny tweak in concept. Working at a computer several hours taxes the brain but does not feel like physical work; therefore, it's a deceptive type of notion to think nutrients have not been completely used up.
 

DavidGardner

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
165
I'm trying, when possible, to more often honour Gwyneth Olwyn's approach: she says normal eating is not to eat when you feel really hungry, but to eat when you think of eating. If I override that too much, I can get into trouble.

That's like a news flash to me. I hear people all the time talk about being hungry, and I can't understand it because I almost never feel hungry, even when skipping meals. I can understand wanting to eat for the pleasure of it or to maintain energy or lower stress, but I rarely experience a physical sense of hunger. I wonder if most people really do, or if they just want food.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
I recall many occasions of ignoring that first inkling of cold nose - thinking, I can't possibly be hungry.... Might help if I changed that thought from hunger signal to being out of fuel signal and try to eat a little bit, not a full meal. Just a tiny tweak in concept. Working at a computer several hours taxes the brain but does not feel like physical work; therefore, it's a deceptive type of notion to think nutrients have not been completely used up.
I used to do that a lot - think about food, and think I couldn't/shouldn't be hungry. Cultural/family messages that didn't fit my personal needs. Maybe another question to ask when you think about food is 'could I enjoy eating food atm?'.

For me, another indicator is that I run out of energy. I just run out of steam and want to sit down and stop doing things physically, and my brain slows down. Unless it's got some other obvious reason, it could be that I ran out of fuel and should have tanked up before I got so low. Several hours would generally be too long for me, but we are all different in that regard.
 

X3CyO

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
512
Location
Hawaii
If I wait till I have strong hunger signals every time, then I only have a very short window of opportunity before I get from hungry and ready to eat now, to distressed and hangry. Sometimes life can't be organised around eating like that - getting hungry when I have to be doing something else.

I'm trying, when possible, to more often honour Gwyneth Olwyn's approach: she says normal eating is not to eat when you feel really hungry, but to eat when you think of eating. If I override that too much, I can get into trouble.

Thanks for the insight in that last paragraph. Im going to try that out as well.
 
OP
D

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
Oh my Tara, when I read the question "Could I enjoy eating food atm?" a large bowl of ice cream jumped into my mind and I instantly wanted it! That reaction has nothing to do with hunger. I've been toying with the idea that pictures of food always make me want to eat even if I don't feel hungry and am thinking it is possible food boredom has something to do with the lack of hunger sensation. The proverbial "what do you want to eat?" replied with "I don't know, what do you want to eat?" The idea of a buffet where one could graze on really good food at leisure would probably reveal quite an intake of calories on my part. If food picture stimulation can create the Pavlov dog effect, then a scrapbook of appetizing food photos could be a nice tool. Perhaps that is part of the meaning that we eat with our eyes.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
That reaction has nothing to do with hunger.
Maybe for some people that's what hunger looks like?
I think it could be a useful indicator for people who don't eat enough because they don't notice or recognise hunger signals. I used to override that kind of signal a lot because I thought it meant I was greedy or something.
For people who have habits of regularly and obviously eating well beyond their needs, or have particular addictive attractions to some thing that is personally harmful, it might mean something else?
There are times when a bowl of ice cream seems very appealling to me, other times not so much.
 
OP
D

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
Then it seems, Tara, that the stimulation to eat is not necessarily tied to actual hunger. Which takes me back to the blood sugar question. I have this concept that maintaining blood sugar in a consistent range is one of RP's recommendations for the body to function without stress hormones being paramount. However, what does that actually mean for the individual in terms of blood sugar numbers? And how exactly is that implemented by the body when it apparently employs its own methods of maintaining blood sugar. Either it uses ingested food or it digests itself. For me, the only "feel" of adrenaline is cold extremities. No shaking, no anxiety, no irritability, nothing but the sensation of cold. Salt can quickly relieve that action, but that's not food. Non-diabetic hypoglycemic blood sugar is stated to be around 55. I know we're not all about numbers as they have proven to be unreliable and inconsistent per the individual. But if low blood sugar, whatever that is for the individual, is the body's way of indicating hunger then constant feeding at designated intervals would seem to short circuit the process rather than assist it. Are we designed to exist in a perpetual state of never feeling hungry?
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Then it seems, Tara, that the stimulation to eat is not necessarily tied to actual hunger.
Well, I think it normally would be in healthy people, if it didn't get messed up by health imbalances, culture or personal emotional tangles.

Are we designed to exist in a perpetual state of never feeling hungry?
I expect hunger to motivate us to organise food. Gathering, hunting, gardening, cooking, eating ...

Ideally, I don't think it's great to regularly spend a lot of time in extreme hunger stress.
 
OP
D

Dotdash

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
136
Well, I think it normally would be in healthy people, if it didn't get messed up by health imbalances, culture or personal emotional tangles.

Ideally, I don't think it's great to regularly spend a lot of time in extreme hunger stress.

Yes. Those two ideas, to me, represent the see-saw of external stimulation to eat and internal stimulation to eat. Both ideas or situations carried to an extreme are detrimental. One might move toward ingesting too much food and the other might move toward too much stress from poor timing of intake.

If a drop in blood sugar is the regulating/notifying factor then individually that could mean dropping from 100 to 95. Both of these numbers are in the above average hunger indicating range of 70 but for the individual the higher numbers may be their average. I hope to do some further experimenting with this via testing as I've already found that when my blood sugar is at 125 I am really comfortable, but fasting levels are seldom below 90 and the sensation of hunger is almost non-existent.
 

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
@Lucas Not sure. I have been taking K2 and Taurine for a while, I reckon they did good to my liver (no longer have sleep issues), however they lower my cortisol too much and give me sedative effects.

Ate a good lunch today, with coffee and B3. 1hr later, cold feet. Ate again. Cold feet gone.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom