More Saturated fat seems to have lessened my adhd symptoms + reduced my facial bloating.

Jam

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gaze

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Yeah no, I don't eat pure stearic acid. Let's see, yesterday it was 98g SAT, 7g PUFA and 54g MUFA + 77g protein + 128g carbs (mostly from a plate of potato gnocchi with pesto sauce.)
yea that's what I thought you meant too. wasn't sure if you meant to say 100g of total fat or saturated initially but thanks for the clarification.
 

Maljam

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What do Edward's ideas advocate?
More saturated fat? (what about other fats like MUFA, omega 3 from fish, etc)
Also what about carb sources? Starch vs sugar?

I tried googling his blog but it's down now. "The connection has timed out"

In a summary and taking out all the explanation, he says the body should be running off saturated fat and carbs should be there to prevent the body from going into ketosis, whatever level that is for an individual. I think somewhere in the realms of ~100g carbs but that isn't a concrete recommendation. Carbs should be from starch, he had some interesting blog posts about fructose being a negative thing. He used to eat potatoes when his health was bad but then branched out when he got stronger. A reasonable amount of protein, but not going crazy with it.
 

Jam

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In a summary and taking out all the explanation, he says the body should be running off saturated fat and carbs should be there to prevent the body from going into ketosis, whatever level that is for an individual. I think somewhere in the realms of ~100g carbs but that isn't a concrete recommendation. Carbs should be from starch, he had some interesting blog posts about fructose being a negative thing. He used to eat potatoes when his health was bad but then branched out when he got stronger. A reasonable amount of protein, but not going crazy with it.
Yeah that's pretty much it, although I don't agree with him that fruit (in moderation) is bad. I think he got most of his carbs from milk in the beginning, but then later cut back on the milk and started adding starch (sourdough bread, etc.).
 

theotokos

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I don't really track my macros but I do notice that I need a decent amount of fats daily for mood and relaxation, not so much for energy levels (in the form of butter, cream, whole fat dairy, egg yolks).

I know the Ray Peat explanation behind a no starch or low starch diet and it seems to make a lot of sense, but my experience is very different. Eating more fruit in substitution for starch is more problematic than when it's all the way around. I do consume fruit, honey and sucrose regularly, but I need rice and/or potatoes daily as well, and the occasional sourdough bread.

I have experimented with doing no fruit/honey in the past and relying mostly on starches as my main carb source, and again, my energy levels were fine. I even lost weight. No bloating or constipation.
 

Maljam

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Yeah that's pretty much it, although I don't agree with him that fruit (in moderation) is bad. I think he got most of his carbs from milk in the beginning, but then later cut back on the milk and started adding starch (sourdough bread, etc.).

I'm not sure if he thinks fruit in moderation is bad, I think he was more warning about excessive sugar consumption like lots of white sugar a day and that it wasn't preferable to starch.
 

mipp

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In a summary and taking out all the explanation, he says the body should be running off saturated fat and carbs should be there to prevent the body from going into ketosis, whatever level that is for an individual. I think somewhere in the realms of ~100g carbs but that isn't a concrete recommendation. Carbs should be from starch, he had some interesting blog posts about fructose being a negative thing. He used to eat potatoes when his health was bad but then branched out when he got stronger. A reasonable amount of protein, but not going crazy with it.
This sounds a lot like Jan Kwaśniewski's 'Optimal nutrition'. Edward Edmonds was a proponent of LCHF diets such as this at one point but didn't he change his views later on? I vaguely remember him posting pictures of pizzas and pastas in the more recent entries on his blog.
 

Maljam

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This sounds a lot like Jan Kwaśniewski's 'Optimal nutrition'. Edward Edmonds was a proponent of LCHF diets such as this at one point but didn't he change his views later on? I vaguely remember him posting pictures of pizzas and pastas in the more recent entries on his blog.

I think Edward liked higher carbs than Kwasniewski but for the most part I think they were fairly similar. The pizza and pasta might have been an example of what he was eating at the time, rather than what he thought someone that is unwell and needs to heal should eat. By that point I think he had fixed many of his health issues. Not entirely sure though.
 

Sefton10

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I think Edward liked higher carbs than Kwasniewski but for the most part I think they were fairly similar. The pizza and pasta might have been an example of what he was eating at the time, rather than what he thought someone that is unwell and needs to heal should eat. By that point I think he had fixed many of his health issues. Not entirely sure though.
Just spent some time reading old posts on his blog through the internet archive.

This was a comment reply of his in 2016:

1613404953831.png
 

mipp

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Good idea with the archive. From 2017:
I’ve come back to a way of eating that tries to avoid PUFA (not that that ever changed outside of some childhood favorites I craved every once and a while), but I don’t deemphasize carbohydrate as much as I used to, I’m quite liberal with them especially sucrose. I eat carbohydrate to taste and fats of the saturated sort to taste and protein to taste, it ends up being my macro ratios are pretty balanced between one another (and incidentally when they are the most palatable). I tend to like the idea of a little bit of physiological insulin resistance promoted by saturated fat so that glucose is shunted to hepatic glycogen and muscle glycogen stores.
That way of eating would make obese in no time. In my experience high sat fat diet worked as long as I kept my carbs strictly in the 50-80g range. Going above 100g meant quick weight gain. I'm fairly sedentary though.
 

Sefton10

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Interesting, yes, this is what I do. More activity = more carbs. Sitting around in my house = less carbs. I like the idea of the diet being dynamic.
That intuitive/dynamic aspect is important. I'm certainly guilty of trying to hit arbitrary targets/amounts/ratios because it'a what some guru or diet recommends. Tuning into cravings/appetite is wise, e.g. does X actually appeal in this moment or am I just trying to cram it in because I "need" to hit X grams of something?

I found this post of Edward's interesting on protein, for many years I've been eating way over 150g most days as I got conditioned into thinking my biceps might fall off overnight otherwise. More recently it's been forcing down carbs to hit certain numbers or ratios. As long as choosing from the best quality foods available, it's likely far better to let macros fall where they may based on daily fluctuations in activity/appetite and how different foods actually make you feel. Where that averages out over a week, month, season or year is anyones guess and likely highly individual.
 

Maljam

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That intuitive/dynamic aspect is important. I'm certainly guilty of trying to hit arbitrary targets/amounts/ratios because it'a what some guru or diet recommends. Tuning into cravings/appetite is wise, e.g. does X actually appeal in this moment or am I just trying to cram it in because I "need" to hit X grams of something?

I found this post of Edward's interesting on protein, for many years I've been eating way over 150g most days as I got conditioned into thinking my biceps might fall off overnight otherwise. More recently it's been forcing down carbs to hit certain numbers or ratios. As long as choosing from the best quality foods available, it's likely far better to let macros fall where they may based on daily fluctuations in activity/appetite and how different foods actually make you feel. Where that averages out over a week, month, season or year is anyones guess and likely highly individual.

I can absolutely relate to your first paragraph, I think everyone that has spent any time in the world of internet health forums will relate to. After being browsing health forums for around 15 years and doing a lot of wacky stuff, the only thing I am sure of these days is that saturated fat is good and PUFA is bad.

It sounds like you have things figured out and you are making jokes, that is always a good sign. I laughed at your biceps comment.

If you haven't come across him before, Peter at Hyperlipid is another blog that might interest you that shares many of the same ideas as Edward. Although I find it strange he has recently gone carnivore, which I feel like is a step backwards with regards to a development of diet and ideas. I also think he is a little too low in carbs.
 

Jam

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Good idea with the archive. From 2017:

That way of eating would make obese in no time. In my experience high sat fat diet worked as long as I kept my carbs strictly in the 50-80g range. Going above 100g meant quick weight gain. I'm fairly sedentary though.
That's interesting, as at 150g carbs (25% carb / 60% fat) I lose weight, if anything. Indeed, I believe that any amount of fat is fine as long as it is saturated, and you don't stuff your face and consistently overeat. But throw in some vegetable oil (PUFA) in any type of diet (the more carbs, the more dramatic the response) and you'll get fat (depending on your "personal fat threshold"), and eventually diabetic.

A theory (the short of it) is that on a "highish" sat-fat diet, the oxidation of stearic acid in primis, but also palmitic to an extent, drives reverse electron flow in the ETC, producing extreme satiety and making adipocytes insulin resistant. Also, stearic acid and other saturated fats promote uncoupling and the conversion of white to brown adipose tissue.

My n=1 experience with this confirms it. I can eat a single pot (200g) of creme fraiche at 12pm and not feel any hunger until well after dinner time (which is 20:00 here). During this 8-hour fast, my temps consistently hover around 37c, pulse is steady at 70-75bpm, and as long as I don't start sprinting or doing extremely intensive physical excercise, I'm fine until dinner, atleast. If I eat that same pot of creme fraiche with a plate of starch then I'm totally stuffed, to quote Mr. Creosote... I'm set until next day's breakfast.

So, as long as the sat-fat ratio to other fats is high enough, and you're eating "enough" of it (I don't think anyone knows what that would be just yet), you should be fine, metabolically speaking.

Did you perhaps also increase your caloric intake, when going above 100g (ie., did you eat less fat with the additional carbs, or not?)
 
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Sefton10

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I can absolutely relate to your first paragraph, I think everyone that has spent any time in the world of internet health forums will relate to. After being browsing health forums for around 15 years and doing a lot of wacky stuff, the only thing I am sure of these days is that saturated fat is good and PUFA is bad.
It's funny isn't it how we need to go through so many years of complexity and the most detailed minutiae to arrive at pretty simple conclusions, usually after digging ourselves into some serious trouble. I came across this post earlier today and found it genuinely hilarious.

This was another comment I liked by a user on Edward's blog:
Occam’s razor thinking if we are really talking about getting as healthy as possible. What are the most important things to focus on, what things have the biggest impact, what makes the most sense, what translates to the fastest real world results, etc. What 20% of the information out there is going to yield 80% of the benefits, and what 80% is mostly fluff that doesn’t translate to much in the real world.
Saturated fat over PUFA would definitely be part of the 20%. I've enjoyed reading his blog this afternoon, I'd never heard of him until seeing this thread today.
If you haven't come across him before, Peter at Hyperlipid is another blog that might interest you that shares many of the same ideas as Edward. Although I find it strange he has recently gone carnivore, which I feel like is a step backwards with regards to a development of diet and ideas. I also think he is a little too low in carbs.
Yes I used to read some of Peter's stuff back in my own low carb/carnivore days, another really smart guy, but again very deep into the minutiae that could no doubt lead some people down some deep rabbit holes if they're not careful.
 

Sefton10

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My n=1 experience with this confirms it. I can eat a single pot (200g) of creme fraiche at 12pm and not feel any hunger until well after dinner time (which is 20:00 here). During this 8-hour fast, my temps consistently hover around 37c, pulse is steady at 70-75bpm, and as long as I don't start sprinting or doing extremely intensive physical excercise, I'm fine until dinner, atleast. If I eat that same pot of creme fraiche with a plate of starch then I'm totally stuffed, to quote Mr. Creosote... I'm set until next day's breakfast.
I find this degree of satiety appealing. One thing with the typical “Peating” approach is the constant need to have food at hand, it has never quite sat right with me.
 

mipp

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That's interesting, as at 150g carbs (25% carb / 60% fat) I lose weight, if anything. Indeed, I believe that any amount of fat is fine as long as it is saturated, and you don't stuff your face and consistently overeat. But throw in some vegetable oil (PUFA) in any type of diet (the more carbs, the more dramatic the response) and you'll get fat (depending on your "personal fat threshold"), and eventually diabetic.

A theory (the short of it) is that on a "highish" sat-fat diet, the oxidation of stearic acid in primis, but also palmitic to an extent, drives reverse electron flow in the ETC, producing extreme satiety and making adipocytes insulin resistant. Also, stearic acid and other saturated fats promote uncoupling and the conversion of white to brown adipose tissue.

My n=1 experience with this confirms it. I can eat a single pot (200g) of creme fraiche at 12pm and not feel any hunger until well after dinner time (which is 20:00 here). During this 8-hour fast, my temps consistently hover around 37c, pulse is steady at 70-75bpm, and as long as I don't start sprinting or doing extremely intensive physical excercise, I'm fine until dinner, atleast. If I eat that same pot of creme fraiche with a plate of starch then I'm totally stuffed, to quote Mr. Creosote... I'm set until next day's breakfast.

So, as long as the sat-fat ratio to other fats is high enough, and you're eating "enough" of it (I don't think anyone knows what that would be just yet), you should be fine, metabolically speaking.

Did you perhaps also increase your caloric intake, when going above 100g (ie., did you eat less fat with the additional carbs, or not?)
I didn't count calories but it's possible that with increased carbs my total caloric intake went up since sat fat + carbs create the super palatable combo.

Eating fat in isolation doesn't really work for me. I experimented with 30% cream and fatty broths, as they are the only fats I can think of that aren't disgusting to eat on their own, but it's never really satisfying and I'm not sure that the fat is even absorbed. More than say 250 ml of cream in one sitting could make me feel nauseous or even cause diarrhea. Eating pure fat feels more like fasting really. Occasinally I experienced "hunger headaches" trying to eat like that. Short term it woluld lead to weight loss but I think I'd rather do intermittend fasting with slow cardio if I wanted a six-pack now.

The only way that HFLC worked for me long term (years) without overconsuming protein and not feeling terrible was to eat a small amount of carbs with each one of my three meals and not exceed the daily limit. It was restrictive, it was a pain in the **** tbh but it kept me reasonably lean, healthy and functional.

In retrospect I think macro splits are overrated anyways. Most poeple who feel that they improve on a higher fat and lower carb probably benefit from reduced endotoxin load rather than some biochemical magic of one fatty acid or another. They snack less, they eat less processed crap, they eat less in general and unintentionally restrict calories.
 

jet9

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Guys, what's the optimal amount of fats (grams) a day do you feel best with?
After being lower fat (mostly fruit and animal proteins) i added 60g of suet to breakfast and i feel so much better. Satiety, mood, digestion - all improved.
Thinking about trying to increase it to say 100g of suet.
Interestingly non animal fats don't work for this, make me worse if anything (coconut oil, etc)
 
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334c

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Guys, what's the optimal amount of fats (grams) a day do you feel best with?
After being lower fat (mostly fruit and animal proteins) i added 60g of suet to breakfast and i feel so much better. Satiety, mood, digestion - all improved.
Thinking about trying to increase it to say 100g of suet.
Interestingly non animal fats don't work for this, make me worse if anything (coconut oil, etc)
i think itd be best to adjust fat intake to how much seems appetising for that day.
 

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