Morality May Be Energetically Dependent

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,799
Location
USA / Europe
Probably not surprising to most people, but I think it is important to have some official evidence for the role of metabolism in something abstract like making the "right" or "wrong" decisions.

http://hbr.org/2014/05/in-the-afternoon ... erier/ar/1


"...I still have trouble accepting that people are less depleted in the morning. If you gave me a moral choice before I’ve had my coffee, there’s no telling what I might do. Of course, there are individual variations. “Morning people” tend to be more alert in the AM, and “evening people” perk up late in the day. You may be right—you may make your best moral choices after you’ve had your coffee, after lunch, or even late at night. But again, we’re talking about averages."

"...If being depleted makes us revert to unethical behavior, doesn’t that imply that humans are naturally unethical? Is everyone really corruptible given the right circumstances? There is debate over that question in psychology. Some studies have shown that people default to their own self-interest; others show that they default to cooperative—in other words, ethical—behavior. What matters is that when self-interest conflicts with the motivation to be ethical, a person usually requires self-control in order to stick with the moral behavior. And when you’ve been thrown for a loop by your manager’s criticism, a customer’s complaint, or a call from the car dealership saying that replacing your side mirror is going to cost $900, you may not have the mental resources to maintain your self-control. That applies especially to people who are generally the most morally engaged—people who pride themselves on doing the right thing."

"...So after a long, trying day, moral people become like their immoral colleagues. Sort of. I should point out that in corporations, ethics or the lack thereof extends way beyond the obvious transgressions such as cooking the books, embezzling, and lying about credentials. Most jobs have an ethical component. You’d be hard-pressed to think of one that didn’t. There are many situations in which we must make small moral choices. Should I leave that mess for someone else to clean up? Should I write my report in such a way as to make my coworker appear less competent than she really is? Should I conceal my own incompetence? And so on up the ladder of ethical magnitude. By the way, when your psychological resources are depleted, you’re less likely to even recognize that an intended action (or inaction) has moral implications."

"...Or maybe we should just stop working so hard. People do work hard. People I know in financial services and in Silicon Valley have told me how exhausted they are by the end of the day. Some even take pride in maintaining an almost nonstop intensity over the course of long days. They feel that working brutal hours is part of fulfilling the company’s mission. That’s fine, but they should know that factors beyond our control can influence our behavior. Exhaustion has costs, and one is a loss of control over the ability to make ethical choices. Are you really fulfilling your company’s mission if you can’t maintain your moral bearings?"
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
Systemic moral failure is now a thing. The future is upon us. We are unstoppable :mrgreen:
 

pboy

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
1,681
nice find, its one of those things that's obvious if you actually think about it but most don't, for most of my life I didn't. It reminds me of a lot of what ive read about older Chinese culture...in their model, it took a healthy vital body to even be able to produce the kind of thoughts that were of good will, emitting good will to others. Sort of like maslows hierarchy or needs, but it probably happens on an hourly basis more than a fixed state. The common greeting in parts of old china was not hello, or how are you, it was 'have you had rice today?' , which was basically the equivalent of asking 'how are you?' and it was sort of just a known thing that people who hadn't eaten yet would not be as friendly and it was important to offer it
 

Elast1c

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
164
Doesn't add up philosophically. I don't care how energetically compromised you are murder is murder. If morality is subjective then human rights are just an opinion
 

Hugh Johnson

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
2,649
Location
The Sultanate of Portugal
Doesn't add up philosophically. I don't care how energetically compromised you are murder is murder. If morality is subjective then human rights are just an opinion
People don't just jump to murder from sainthood. It's a slow process.

However, this is a a lot more complex than metabolism. Young people are the ones that murder and generally commit crimes, and they have better metabolism. Also, this is a two way street. I remember being in a Rosen therapy, and I said to my heart "I love you" and the woman doing felt my pulse become stronger and she commented on it and asked what I did.
 

Elast1c

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
164
People don't just jump to murder from sainthood. It's a slow process.

However, this is a a lot more complex than metabolism. Young people are the ones that murder and generally commit crimes, and they have better metabolism. Also, this is a two way street. I remember being in a Rosen therapy, and I said to my heart "I love you" and the woman doing felt my pulse become stronger and she commented on it and asked what I did.
The spectrum has nothing to do with the philsophical basis for objective morality as far as reasoning has it. If it exist it is objective, if it is su jective then it is just a point of view. Hurting people isn't wrong because it's someones view of their low metabolism.
 

Hugh Johnson

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
2,649
Location
The Sultanate of Portugal
The spectrum has nothing to do with the philsophical basis for objective morality as far as reasoning has it. If it exist it is objective, if it is su jective then it is just a point of view. Hurting people isn't wrong because it's someones view of their low metabolism.
Or there is a biological basis for morality, which is subjective and at the same time common to all humans.

I do think there is an objective morality, though on deeper level. But that is a deeper discussion.
 

Elast1c

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
164
Or there is a biological basis for morality, which is subjective and at the same time common to all humans.

I do think there is an objective morality, though on deeper level. But that is a deeper discussion.
If it doesn't objectively exist then it can't be said to be more than opinion. Subjective perspective that can't be enumerated in reality. It's like a color in your mind. Really don't understand ehy anyone even bothers eith being moral whrn you can just rob people to relieve stress. Wouldn't be subjectively immoral then.
 

Hugh Johnson

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
2,649
Location
The Sultanate of Portugal
If it doesn't objectively exist then it can't be said to be more than opinion. Subjective perspective that can't be enumerated in reality. It's like a color in your mind. Really don't understand ehy anyone even bothers eith being moral whrn you can just rob people to relieve stress. Wouldn't be subjectively immoral then.
It's not subjective to the individual if it's a biological imperative. It is real, even if it only exists within people. Not my view, but it is probably the most popular view among materialist scientists.
 

Elast1c

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
164
If It's changing from person to person from situation to situation then it's hardly easy to give it any absolute deterministic causality. Ray peat understands they painted themself into a corner that can't be defended but as well Ray leaves people that believe autonomy is a right indefensible.
 

Quelsatron

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
484
In Swedish we have the dialectal term "matond" which translates to roughly "food evil", my mom uses it a lot when she's hungry and in a bad mood :)))
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom