Moderate Doses Of Aspirin Reverse Insulin Resistance

[haidut]

The study was in rats but it has been replicated in humans as well, even though the replication study in humans used much higher doses of aspirin (human dose 90mg/kg). This study used smaller doses of aspirin equivalent to 650mg taken every 6 hours. If this works, it could be a much safer dosing regimen especially for people prone to bleeding.

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/11559

"...Insulin-stimulated whole-body glucose uptake was decreased by 37% with the lipid infusion (Figure 1c). Salicylate pretreatment prevented decreases in insulin-stimulated whole-body glucose uptake caused by lipid infusion. Decreases in insulin-stimulated whole-body glucose uptake were due to a 41% decrease in insulin-stimulated glucose uptake in skeletal muscle (soleus) with lipid infusion (Figure 1d). Salicylate pretreatment also prevented the lipid-induced decrease in insulin-stimulated skeletal muscle glucose uptake. Furthermore, insulin-stimulated whole-body glycolysis and glycogen/lipid synthesis were significantly decreased by 27% and 43%, respectively, with the lipid infusion (Figure 2, a and b). Salicylate pretreatment prevented these decreases in insulin-stimulated whole-body glucose metabolic flux caused by lipid infusion. Similar to the decreases in insulin-stimulated whole-body glucose metabolic flux with lipid infusion, insulin-stimulated skeletal muscle glycolysis was decreased by 36% with lipid infusion (Figure 2c), but the most profound change was a 66% decrease in insulin-stimulated skeletal muscle glycogen synthesis with lipid infusion (Figure 2d). Salicylate pretreatment also prevented the lipid-induced decreases in insulin-stimulated skeletal muscle glucose metabolism."

 

[yoshiesque]

Is there a way to find out if I am prone to bleeding from Aspirin? I am about to experiment with this but not sure if I should just go all out and start on the high doses.

Also, I read in one experiment where they used aspirin for insulin resistance, they found that bicarbonate levels decreased after use of aspirin....any idea why this would be? I thought it should increase...? (reference below)

Mechanism by which high-dose aspirin improves glucose metabolism in type 2 diabetes

 

[haidut]

Is there a way to find out if I am prone to bleeding from Aspirin? I am about to experiment with this but not sure if I should just go all out and start on the high doses.

Also, I read in one experiment where they used aspirin for insulin resistance, they found that bicarbonate levels decreased after use of aspirin....any idea why this would be? I thought it should increase...? (reference below)

Mechanism by which high-dose aspirin improves glucose metabolism in type 2 diabetes

Whether you are prone or not, Ray suggests taking 1mg K2 for every tablet of aspirin. Even the moderate doses used in this study can cause bleeding issues.

 

[yoshiesque]

Thanks for your response Haidut. I recently brought up the whole K2 negating Aspirins blood thinning effects with my doctor. He is quite open minded so is open to many of Rays ideas. He told me that there are two ways in which you can clot (and consequently thin) blood. Aspirin thins the blood via a different process, and because of this K2 wont negate that. K2 would on the other hand can stop the thinning caused by Warfarin as Warfarin thins the blood via the same process in which K2 clots it.

He explained the process but it was too technical for me and unfortunately googling this has proven very difficult. Do you have any information on this?

 

[haidut]

Thanks for your response Haidut. I recently brought up the whole K2 negating Aspirins blood thinning effects with my doctor. He is quite open minded so is open to many of Rays ideas. He told me that there are two ways in which you can clot (and consequently thin) blood. Aspirin thins the blood via a different process, and because of this K2 wont negate that. K2 would on the other hand can stop the thinning caused by Warfarin as Warfarin thins the blood via the same process in which K2 clots it.

He explained the process but it was too technical for me and unfortunately googling this has proven very difficult. Do you have any information on this?

He is correct that there are multiple mechanisms for blood thinning but he is NOT correct that vitamin K won't help with aspirin bleeding. IM injections of K1 are given in hospitals to prevent bleeding from aspirin overdose and it works like a charm.

 

[mirc12354]

He is correct that there are multiple mechanisms for blood thinning but he is NOT correct that vitamin K won't help with aspirin bleeding. IM injections of K1 are given in hospitals to prevent bleeding from aspirin overdose and it works like a charm.

Can K2 help with blood thinning in exactly the same way the K1 can?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Also warfarin should be taken with k2. K2 helps prevent calcification of arteries caused by warfarin and it does not inactivate or prevent warfarin from working.

 

[haidut]

Can K2 help with blood thinning in exactly the same way the K1 can?

Yes, all of them can. K2 has the added benefit that it affects arterial calcification unlike K1 which mostly affects coagulation.

 

[yoshiesque]

Haidut, thank you for your responses. I was hoping you could take a look at the new post someone made about Aspirin still thinning blood and shed some light on this. The link is here:

Thorne’s K2 Not Effective At All - Aspirin Still Causing Bleeding

And also the following post where someone discusses the technical details behind what my doctor suggested:

When it comes to clotting there are two mechanisms your body uses. Platelet aggregation and fibrogenen. Based on what we know in the research at this time, as far as I'm aware of , vitamin K has no or very little influence on platelet aggregation. K1 and K2 do have a strong influence on fibrogenen coagulation. Aspirin affects platelet aggregation exclusively so if there is a relationship between K and platelet aggregation it is a weak one. Granted at this time there is still plenty we don't know. But based on what is known about these two products the bleeding symptoms posted here do not surprise me. High doses of aspirin can have lasting effects on platelet clotting as well and may take time to reverse. In theory it is possible to damage the platelet's clotting function and may only be reversed gradually as the platelets are replaced by new ones.

As I mentioned above there is a strong relationship between K and fibrogenen. Fibrogenen and platelets work together to regulate blood thickness and coagulation. Especially when it comes to stopping bleeding. Arteries and veins inherently leak as this is how they ultimately transfer nutrients and waste to and from the cells. If the blood is excessively thin spontaneous bleeding and international bleeding is expected. coumadin thins the blood by blocking K factor responsible for fibrogenen clotting function. There are a few OTC anti fibrogenens such as enzymes and tumeric, however these don't block K they dissolve the fibrogenen. In summary I would not count on vitamin K in any form as a protective agent when using aspirin in high doses. I would also use extreme caution when using high dose aspirin as your primary risks are poor wound clotting, internal bleeding and renal damage. Animal grade aspirin may also play a factor as well.

I am wondering if maybe its K1 that needs to be used instead....or does my doctor have a point? Not sure. Thanks in advance for your response!

 

[ecstatichamster]

K2 works for me to eliminate bleeding when I take aspirin.

 

[dbh25]

K2 works for me to eliminate bleeding when I take aspirin.

May I ask what kind of bleeding? I'm new here, and I'm trying to understand the risks/benefits from taking aspirin. Thanks.

 

[ecstatichamster]

May I ask what kind of bleeding? I'm new here, and I'm trying to understand the risks/benefits from taking aspirin. Thanks.

a bit of rectal bleeding, a bit of nose bleeding

 

[dbh25]

@ecstatichamster- Thanks for the clarification

 

[Cirion]

When you say 1mg of K2 per tablet of aspirin, how much assumed to be in 1 tablet of aspirin? Or are all containers of aspirin equal in terms of dosage per tablet?

 

[ecstatichamster]

When you say 1mg of K2 per tablet of aspirin, how much assumed to be in 1 tablet of aspirin? Or are all containers of aspirin equal in terms of dosage per tablet?

325mg

 

[Cirion]

Mine are only like 40 mg per tablet. No wonder I notice no effect from it haha

 

[success23]

I am wondering if mixing aspirin with baking soda will be even better?
From what i can tell aspirin will react with the bakinb soda yielding sodium acetylsalicylate which is a lot more water soluble that plain aspirin.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Mixing aspirin with baking soda is helpful but doesn’t stop bleeding issues. Only K2 MK4 does that.

ASA breaks down quickly into salicylic acid in the gut anyway. I use baking soda routinely.

 

[Vinny]

Mixing aspirin with baking soda is helpful

1. Why mixing them is helpful if it doesn't stop bleeding?
2. Why you use b soda routinely?
Thanks