Moderate Alcohol Use Is Protective Against Dementia

raypeatclips

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
I believe Peat and haidut have said alcohol is one of the things that can dissolve lipofuscin:

Alcohol Mostly Benign For The Liver, Causing Injury Requires Endotoxin (LPS)

And neuronal lipofuscin seems elevated in people with Alzheimer dementia:

Neuronal lipofuscin accumulation in ageing and alzheimer dementia: a pathogenic mechanism? - PubMed - NCBI

" The results indicate that there is a liner relationship between the accumulation of cell body lipofuscin and advancing age, both in neuronal populations of the non-demented groups, and in the olivary neurones of the demented group. However, in the demented group, the lipofuscin fluorescence intensity of the parietal neurons was not significantly correlated with age."


Peat has also said he thinks alcohol in the context of someone that eats high saturated fat diet may be completely neutral, and the damaging effects are related to PUFA, but it hasn't been research enough yet. He has mentioned small amounts of alcohol have antioxidant effects (But he was talking about amounts less than 1 unit of vodka)
 
OP
R

rei

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
1,607
Thanks! The lipofuscin dissolving was completely new information to me.
 

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
I believe Peat and haidut have said alcohol is one of the things that can dissolve lipofuscin:

Alcohol Mostly Benign For The Liver, Causing Injury Requires Endotoxin (LPS)

And neuronal lipofuscin seems elevated in people with Alzheimer dementia:

Neuronal lipofuscin accumulation in ageing and alzheimer dementia: a pathogenic mechanism? - PubMed - NCBI

" The results indicate that there is a liner relationship between the accumulation of cell body lipofuscin and advancing age, both in neuronal populations of the non-demented groups, and in the olivary neurones of the demented group. However, in the demented group, the lipofuscin fluorescence intensity of the parietal neurons was not significantly correlated with age."


Peat has also said he thinks alcohol in the context of someone that eats high saturated fat diet may be completely neutral, and the damaging effects are related to PUFA, but it hasn't been research enough yet. He has mentioned small amounts of alcohol have antioxidant effects (But he was talking about amounts less than 1 unit of vodka)

This shows that alcohol actually induces lipofuscin formation :
Flavonoids from grape seeds prevent increased alcohol-induced neuronal lipofuscin formation. - PubMed - NCBI

An Overview of the Role of Lipofuscin in Age-Related Neurodegeneration
On the other hand, chronic alcohol consumption induces increasing LF deposition in rat hippocampal neurons (Borges et al., 1986) and Purkinje (Lewandowska et al., 1994; Wenisch et al., 1997; Dlugos, 2015).

And in this one, alcohol abstinence caused cognitive enhancements in Alzheimer's :
Association between alcohol and Alzheimer's disease
In line with this view, AD patients with a habitual drinking history have shown cognitive improvement during the clinical course of abstinence (11). By contrast, this effect was not observed in patients consuming high amounts of alcohol prior to diagnosis of AD (11).
(implying abstinence caused improvements compared to a consumption that isn't abusive)

As for alcohol being "completely neutral" with a saturated fat diet, I don't think that its aromatase-triggering effect is dependent on dietary fat.

Edit : It also directly triggers Serotonin (5-HT3).
 
Last edited:

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820

I'm not claiming that it cannot have beneficial effects but here's something to consider. Some people who are chronically stressed may not be able to sustain the effects of Alcohol and so instinctively, or from experience, stay away from it. Stress being a major cause of neurodegeneration. Stress and excess Iron also damaging the liver, making one less able to support Alcohol. And iron deposits are found in Alzheimer and other chronic brain disorders. Excess estrogen is also neurotoxic, women are more likely to be affected by Alzheimer's, and Peat argues that estrogen in old age increases the risks of Alzheimer's. Someone who already has high estrogen levels is likely to get a bad reaction from Alcohol, and more likely to stay away from it.

It would be interesting to see dementia rates on people who abstain from religious conviction.
 
Last edited:

raypeatclips

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
This shows that alcohol actually induces lipofuscin formation :
Flavonoids from grape seeds prevent increased alcohol-induced neuronal lipofuscin formation. - PubMed - NCBI

An Overview of the Role of Lipofuscin in Age-Related Neurodegeneration


And in this one, alcohol abstinence caused cognitive enhancements in Alzheimer's :
Association between alcohol and Alzheimer's disease
(implying abstinence caused improvements compared to a consumption that isn't abusive)

As for alcohol being "completely neutral" with a saturated fat diet, I don't think that its aromatase-triggering effect is dependent on dietary fat.

My issues with this is that the rats were consuming 20 percent of their diet as ethanol for months at a time. Surely you cannot really claim anything about alcohol intake one way or another with a study like this, unless you are talking about people that are actually consuming 20% of their diet as ethanol. I don't think anyone argues alcohol in excess is a bad thing.

The changes noted with withdrawal of alcohol may have something to do with the diet, PUFA and iron, which agrees with what Peat says that I mentioned above. Possibly avoiding alcohol in a SAD PUFA rich diet is wise, but more Peat focused diet i.e watchful of iron intake and low PUFA it's less damaging.
 
Last edited:

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
My issues with this is that the rats were consuming 20 percent of their diet as ethanol for months at a time. Surely you cannot really claim anything about alcohol intake one way or another with a study like this, unless you are talking about people that are actually consuming 20% of their diet as ethanol.

The changes noted with withdrawal of alcohol may have something to do with the diet, PUFA and iron, which agrees with what Peat says that I mentioned above. Possibly avoiding alcohol in a SAD PUFA rich diet is wise, but more Peat focused diet i.e watchful of iron intake and low PUFA it's less damaging.

Well it was 20% of their liquid source, they also ate food.

Still, abstinence from prior moderate consumption produced cognitive improvements in humans affected by Alzheimer. Perhaps very small concentrations of alcohol can reduce lipofuscin in labs, but to which extent, and does it produce cognitive benefits when all effects of alcohol are considered, is hard to say.

I found this while searching :
hyperoxia accelerates the rate of lipofuscin accumulation, as we reported previously.
CO2 and slow breathing should be protective.
 

raypeatclips

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
Well it was 20% of their liquid source, they also ate food.

Still, abstinence from prior moderate consumption produced cognitive improvements in humans affected by Alzheimer. Perhaps very small concentrations of alcohol can reduce lipofuscin in labs, but to which extent, and does it produce cognitive benefits when all effects of alcohol are considered, is hard to say.

I found this while searching :

CO2 and slow breathing should be protective.

I guess just don't over do it, on the back of a healthy diet with regular blood donations would be sensible advice. When I asked Peat about what amount of alcohol he thought would be beneficial for the antioxidant effect he said something like 10ml of clear alcohol like vodka.

It is hard to say with so many variables involved one way another, with complete certainty.

Interesting, thanks! I believe also Peat and haidut mentioning vitamin E.
 

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
@raypeatclips
Yeah, vitamin E protects against iron damage.

So I found that under 20% oxygen atmosphere 6.2mM decreased lipofuscin in myocytes, and that 7mM is achieved in blood and brain of humans with "one alcoholic beverage" (I'm guessing 14 grams since it's an American study). It starts to increase lipofuscin past 12.5mM (2 drinks). But at 40% oxygen atmosphere, only 3.1mM decreased lipofuscin and 6.2mM and 12.5mM increased it. I wonder if breathing habits and physical location could then make the difference with alcohol's effect of increasing vs decreasing lipofuscin at a given concentration.

Turns out you're right, but at least the other studies showed that high alcohol intake (even just a bit more than 2 drinks) increases lipofuscin.
 
Last edited:
OP
R

rei

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
1,607
Well it was 20% of their liquid source, they also ate food.

Imagine how you would feel if all the liquid you drank during several weeks contained maximum allowed concentration of alcohol for those aged 18-21 in many countries. I don't know if you could survive it.
 

Aymen

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
596
Location
Tunisia
I'm not claiming that it cannot have beneficial effects but here's something to consider. Some people who are chronically stressed may not be able to sustain the effects of Alcohol and so instinctively, or from experience, stay away from it. Stress being a major cause of neurodegeneration. Stress and excess Iron also damaging the liver, making one less able to support Alcohol. And iron deposits are found in Alzheimer and other chronic brain disorders. Excess estrogen is also neurotoxic, women are more likely to be affected by Alzheimer's, and Peat argues that estrogen in old age increases the risks of Alzheimer's. Someone who already has high estrogen levels is likely to get a bad reaction from Alcohol, and more likely to stay away from it.

It would be interesting to see dementia rates on people who abstain from religious conviction.
i have a friend who is always stuttering when speaking and he drinks once a week or once in two weeks when he is stressed and feels lonely or get low self-esteem , he says when he drinks he overcomes this stress but always he regrets it .. i,m relegious and drinking is not allowed but i can say that many relegious people i know (40-60 years old ) who do the long term abstinence don't have dementia .
 

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
Imagine how you would feel if all the liquid you drank during several weeks contained maximum allowed concentration of alcohol for those aged 18-21 in many countries. I don't know if you could survive it.
I know, I just wanted to point that it wasn't 20% total of their diet. But that basically reflects the situation of many alcoholics, they often don't hydrate much, they could be drinking 40% alcohol and only drink as much water in between their binge sessions. These studies are basically animal abuse though.

@Aymen Interesting. Alcohol is supposed to have dual effects, increasing GABA at low dose while the drunkness effect has been shown to be caused by Adrenaline. In my experience, in periods of high stress I found even a small amount of alcohol stressing and serotonin-increasing.
 

Bingo

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
72
In Peat's newsletter titled critical issues there are several references that link ethanol consumption and cancer in humans (Based on the title, I didn't follow up to read them critically as he suggests in the newsletter.) I thought the original and often quoted study saying moderate alcohol consumption was healthful had used a flawed control group. Wasn't the abstainer group comprised of heavy use alcoholics who had finally quit? So they had considerable health issue carryover from their addiction. It is so easy to rig a study.
 

Collden

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
630
In Peat's newsletter titled critical issues there are several references that link ethanol consumption and cancer in humans (Based on the title, I didn't follow up to read them critically as he suggests in the newsletter.) I thought the original and often quoted study saying moderate alcohol consumption was healthful had used a flawed control group. Wasn't the abstainer group comprised of heavy use alcoholics who had finally quit? So they had considerable health issue carryover from their addiction. It is so easy to rig a study.
Well there are literally hundreds of studies showing moderate alcohol consumers are healthier than either abstainers or light consumers. As far as rigged studies goes I'd be more suspicious of papers such as the one linked above that uses convoluted statistics to attempt to overturn the entire pre-existing literature on moderate alcohol use.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom