MitoLipin - Liquid Saturated Phosphatidylcholine (PC) Mix

[tara]

This combinaton had been nothing short of amazing for my inflammation and digestion. Almost immediately I felt some relief in the amount of inflammation in my chest and back and after a week I have almost zero sternum pain and very minamal back pain even after some exercise I did! My digestive upset has also almost disappeared. Lastly I have lost fat in all the places I have put it on which is pretty interesting. I also feel calmer and have reduced stress which could also be from the lack of pain.

I am off of the Prednisone, yay, and will continue forward with no medication. My liver enzymes are back to normal from the 500 range.

Nice stories. :)

 

[haidut]

@haidut I have communicated with you before about my autoimmune hepatitis. I am currently taking:
Energin 40 drops
Kuinone 2 drops
Niacinamide 100 x 2
Taurine 500 x 3
Unique e 400 iu every other day
Retinal 5 drops
Lapodin 12 drops
Estroban 8 drops
Progest-e 10 mg x 3
PanSterone 8 drops morning and Eve
StressNon 24 drops eve
Progestene 24 drops eve
Aspirin 650 mg at night
NP Thyroid by Acella 90 mg
Coffee 2 cups

I am off of the Prednisone, yay, and will continue forward with no medication. My liver enzymes are back to normal from the 500 range. I am thinking of adding MitoLipin to my regimen. Can you please comment whether this will help along with the other things I am taking? I am concerned about the liver fibrosis and inflammation. I know that it's important to keep the inflammation down to keep the fibrosis from getting worse. Why do the doctors want to suppress your immune system? Does the inflammatory process continue once it's started? Is there anything I'm taking that I don't need? Are my dosages correct for my condition? You've been a big help to me so far but I still feel lost.

MitoLipin may help as saturated PC has been used for decades in Europe as a drug for liver disease (especially fibrosis/cirrhosis). I think starting with a single dose of 40 drops split into 10-15 drops with each meal would be enough. You can take more but even 1 dose should have an effect. From the supplements you listed I think vitamin K (Kuinone or other vendor) can be taken in pretty much any dose and Lapodin can also be increased if needed. The rest look fine. For fibrotic conditions, vitamin K, caffeine, low dose niacinamide, taurine, emodin, progesterone, aspirin, glycine/gelatin are the most helpful. You probably don't need all of these supplements at the same time, but if you feel find on them I would retest liver enzymes in a month and then maybe drop everything except the low dose niacinamide, vitamin K, emodin, and aspirin.
Doctors give prednisone b/c this is the emergency treatment for acute inflammation. They either do not give much thought to the side effects or are taught that the side effects are unavoidable and something to be "managed" with other more less toxic drugs. Such is the state of medicine we pay dearly for. It has actually regressed in terms of effectiveness since the mid 19th century.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Is it useful to think of mitolipin and the effects it may have on mitochondrial energy production as a precursor to even thyroid health in the grand scheme of troubleshooting peatian energy problems in the body? In other words, can it maybe make one successful with thyroid supplementation or possibly newly sensitive to existing blood levels already in the body, due to a fix upstream?

Also, have you noticed or heard of improved light therapy results after mitolipin supplementation?

Thanks, will have to give this one a try.

I think it should make thyroid more effective as the effects of thyroid depend on cell PUFA status. If there is too much PUFA it can occupy both the thyroid transport protein in the blood AND the thyroid receptor inside the cell. Saturated PC should be able to displace the PUFA from the cell over time and thus increase thyroid effectiveness. I just don't know how long it needs to be taken for that effect, but the animal studies show effects on cardiolipin within 4-8 weeks.

 

[haidut]

Have you tried dissolving steroids in MitoLipin/phosphatidylchloline?
Could it work for transdermal steroid delivery, do you think?

That is actually a really good idea! Peat has already written about the benefits of vitamin E as steroid carrier, and some of the studies I posted in the original MitoLipin post talk about using PC as a highly effective carrier for drugs directly into the mitochondria. So, dissolving progesteron and/or DHEA or even thyroid into MitoLipin may be a great way to deliver them directly into mitochondria with very little wastage.

 

[haidut]

Just for anyone who wants to know more experiences of using. So today was my second day using mitolipin. The first day of use I both topically applied some over my stomach and swallowed some. I did experience a good feeling, more energy, and I was really hungry all day. Mentally it seemed to have some effect too. I felt more present than usual. This might seem weird, but I also noticed that I found things funnier than usual. I don't really laugh hard at much anymore, and I've had a similar effect using marijuana before but I had some real belly laughter again which was nice. This was juxtaposed by an extra nervousness at the prospect of certain things though. I dunno maybe I'm looking too far into it but that's what happened lol. After I went to sleep, I woke up at about 6am and I was starving (this has happened before quite a bit so I don't know if it was the supplement), so I went downstairs and had a bite to eat. Back in bed I started getting really hot (hot flash? maybe mitochondrial uncoupling?) And then really sharp pains in my stomach. I've experienced these pains very often before, they were one of the first symptoms I had when I first got ill, I'd have them pretty much everyday but they've lessened in frequency over the past few years to rarely. Anyway I ended up falling back asleep. After waking I felt the need to stretch more than usual. After using the second dose just topically, I again felt pretty good, more energy than usual, I'd say I've felt warmer than usual too (cold limbs everyday usually and although I still had it at points throughout the day I felt warmer overall). Well the stomach pains came back at some point with less intensity and you can guess the rest. No stomach pain since. So yeah so far I'd say this has seemed to have more effect than anything else I've tried to date, which could mean PUFA storage is a big problem for me or something I dunno

Thanks for sharing! Keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

I'm curious, is MitoLipin (and any of your other supplements too) susceptible to damage from X-rays? I travel out of state and back 3-4 times a month on average, so of course my bag of liquids gets scanned through an X-ray machine 6-8 times per month. I was wondering if this is a major problem or not. I haven't bought any of your supplements before because of the high cost, but I find myself intrigued by MitoLipin and the possibility of repairing my mitochondria. I'm tempted to try this one.

Well, I think everything is subject to damage by X-Rays but I have not seen anything on airport scanner somehow spoiling supplements. I doubt it degrades the PC from a such a brief exposure.

 

[haidut]

@haidut is there any upper limit on how much of this one should use in a day? Each dose has 200ml of phosphatidylcholine, so can one use 2 or 3 doses for increased effect? Or is it a waste to take that much?

Other than the 600 IU vitamin E you get from each dose, I don't know of anything else that has to be considered when taking higher doses. The human trials with UC and Chron's used 3g a day for months without any side effects.

 

[haidut]

@haidut I'm looking forward to trying this one. I have "Crohn's disease" and gallstones. Hopefully the regular 40 drops/day will be enough to make a difference in this. The studies that I looked at used larger doses with an enteric-release formula, but maybe the saturated form will be more effective. I'm still willing to give it a try just because I tried PC once and the feeling was amazing. So blissful with nootropic effects.

@Jonoh your symptoms seem reminiscent of high and low serotonin. Maybe it is having an effect on estrogen?

There are animal studies showing beneficial effects on the liver from as little as a human dose of 100mg daily. So, how much you take is up to you and the doctor and considering each ml (20 drops) has 600 IU (400mg) of vitamin E.

 

[haidut]

Since I don't have access to pure vitamin E, I am considering this supplement also for vitamin E. I saw some people asked about the amount of vitamin E in 1 dose of this supplement, but I didn't see a specific number in IU. Anybody knows?

Each ml (20 drops) has 400mg (which is about 600 IU) of mixed tocopherols.

 

[haidut]

I'm fascinated by this! I started my diet adventures maybe 6 years ago with basically chugging PUFA oils, then went to paleo and low carb. So, ugh.

Anyway, I think that Time Of Stupidity created a PUFA context that will take many more years to undo, and at 60 years old I wouldn't mind accelerating this a wee bit.

@haidut, Questions:

1. Are there important cofactors, other than the usual Peaty foods/supps? I've recently discovered the issue of creating a deficiency by taking too much of a good thing and would prefer to avoid that here.
2. Why is dinner time suggested - is there a reason to NOT suggest morning?
3. If I chose oral would it make sense to include other fatty food/coconut oil?
4. I like the bread idea - maybe blending with butter to make a tasty spread would be useful?
5. Also I'm curious about the question above: is high dosing a waste?

Update: my first experiment - Mitolipin squirted on a small slab of fresh farmer's cheese:

View attachment 2585

I think the high dose vitamin E in MitoLipin may need to be taken into account by people prone to bleeding. So, adding some vitamin K2 may not be a bad idea. Other than that, I am not aware of any data on PC leading to deficiencies of any sort or requiring supplementing with other nutrients. The suggestion to take with meal was Peat's and I thought it is not a bad idea given the GI upset some people get when ingesting vitamin E on empty stomach. But the fat in MitoLipin is enough to make it not need additional fat intake for absorption. Blending with butter is a great idea. All ingredients in MitoLipin are fully saturated and should not spoil for years to come. In fact, they may even protect the small residual amount of PUFA in butter from going rancid.

 

[allblues]

That is actually a really good idea! Peat has already written about the benefits of vitamin E as steroid carrier, and some of the studies I posted in the original MitoLipin post talk about using PC as a highly effective carrier for drugs directly into the mitochondria. So, dissolving progesteron and/or DHEA or even thyroid into MitoLipin may be a great way to deliver them directly into mitochondria with very little wastage.

Cool! I was sure you'd have tried this already :)
I'm asking on behalf of a family member who one day asked me what i was up to with all these little bottles.
I got her interested in trying pregnenolone, but thought DMSO might put her off, if she has a skin reaction.
I'll definitely try mixing some pregnenolone powder with the MitoLipin.
If it works, it sounds almost like a speedball of peatdom.

 

[haidut]

I wanted to sign up just to share my experiences with Haiduts supps.

First of all I really want to thank Haidut for making topical supplements without any fillers. I have found that almost any oral supplement does not work for me so using things topically is great.

Quick background, I suffer from a form of arthritic condition that attacks the lower back and sternum mostly, it's also connected to gut issues, maybe chrones or similar and leaky gut. It's been getting out of control the last few years where I'm unable to work out or run or even sleep comfortably. As a 28yo male, this really sucks. Eliminating fiber and starch had done a lot for this condition but it was not enough.

I have been taking a combination of mitolipon, estroban, k2 and pansterone for just over a week now, I split it up in a morning and night dose of 20 drops, 3 drops, 3 drops, 3 drops. I put it over a big area of the body, usually chest, stomach, lower back and legs.

This combinaton had been nothing short of amazing for my inflammation and digestion. Almost immediately I felt some relief in the amount of inflammation in my chest and back and after a week I have almost zero sternum pain and very minamal back pain even after some exercise I did! My digestive upset has also almost disappeared. Lastly I have lost fat in all the places I have put it on which is pretty interesting. I also feel calmer and have reduced stress which could also be from the lack of pain.

Thanks Haidut for the truly awesome supplements! I look forward to trying others when I get more $.

Edit: I wanted mention that 40 drops orally made me the most tired I have ever been in my life. I like it topically much better.

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
The tired feeling is probably from the progesterone effects of high dose vitamin E. I also find topical MitoLipin to give me an energy boost while oral makes me sleepy. I do like the sleepy feeling as well, so I take at night sometimes.

 

[haidut]

Doesn't the Kuinone stain your body a yellow color? It stained me and my entire family for the entire day when we put Kuinone on topically.

I will post in the Kuinone thread as well but just wanted to share this here too. Due to the large number of reports on Kuinone staining, we are using a batch that has a much paler yellow color and it should not stain. I will see how this batch fares and if it is liked just as much as the staining batch we will stick to using the non-staining version. Vitamin K2 can vary in color from almost pure white to bright yellow/orange. People who have used the vitamin K2 pills from VRP, Relentless Improvement, etc have seen this - i.e. they all vary in color even though chemically it is the same vitamin K2 (or at least it has the same CAS number).

 

[allblues]

Regarding @Jayfish comment, the part about losing fat where MitoLipin was used;

I know PUFAs are preferentially stored - is there any way the PUFA can be saturated when stored?
In this case, could MitoLipin be saturating the local fat tissues, making the fats more suitable and likely to be burned?
I've been wondering this about vitamin E, also. If my physiologizing is off, please set me straight.

Regardless, i'm definitely putting some on my slight cortisol belly.

 

[haidut]

Regarding @Jayfish comment, the part about losing fat where MitoLipin was used;

I know PUFAs are preferentially stored - is there any way the PUFA can be saturated when stored?
In this case, could MitoLipin be saturating the local fat tissues, making the fats more suitable and likely to be burned?
I've been wondering this about vitamin E, also. If my physiologizing is off, please set me straight.

Regardless, i'm definitely putting some on my slight cortisol belly.

Peat has a quote in one of his articles about vitamin E having no known metabolic role that does not somehow include the saturation of PUFA.
Vitamin E: Estrogen antagonist, energy promoter, and anti-inflammatory
"..."No metabolic function is known for alpha-tocopherolquinol or its quinone other than as a cofactor in the biohydrogenation of unsaturated fatty acids that can be carried out by only a few organisms."

So, vitamin E on its own and especially when combined with the saturated PC and the MCT in MitiLipin should be able to re-saturate fat in fatty cells. I seem to remember somebody post an experiment back in 2014 showing that topical vitamin E lowered their blood levels of PUFA FFA and raised saturated blood FFA.

 

[Jayfish]

Should I be concerned at all with taking both estroban and mitolipon and maybe adding in progest-e? All topically. Is this too much e? I'm also taking k2.

 

[haidut]

Should I be concerned at all with taking both estroban and mitolipon and maybe adding in progest-e? All topically. Is this too much e? I'm also taking k2.

Vitamin E, progesterone, and vitamin A can all thin the blood when used on their own. Together, the effects is probably much more potent. So, keeping that vitamin K intake is crucial. Nobody knows how much vitamin E is "too much". It depends on a host of factors like age, PUFA stores, iron saturation, estrogen levels, etc and those are all different for different people.

 

[Peata]

Anyone find themselves more prone to headache from taking it? I don't know if that's why, but I noticed since I started using it that something can set off a headache easier, whether it's stress, heat, too much caffeine without enough food, etc. The headache is located between brows and/or above brows/center of forehead when I get it. I tend to need ibuprofen to make it go away and/or a night's sleep. Eating food doesn't necessarily help, so I'm not sure it's a blood sugar thing. It could be a coincidence. Or could MitoLipin be making me more sensitive or is it a product of raising metabolism?

 

[haidut]

Anyone find themselves more prone to headache from taking it? I don't know if that's why, but I noticed since I started using it that something can set off a headache easier, whether it's stress, heat, too much caffeine without enough food, etc. The headache is located between brows and/or above brows/center of forehead when I get it. I tend to need ibuprofen to make it go away and/or a night's sleep. Eating food doesn't necessarily help, so I'm not sure it's a blood sugar thing. It could be a coincidence. Or could MitoLipin be making me more sensitive or is it a product of raising metabolism?

MitoLipin has a decent amount of vitamin E in every dose and tocopherols can give that headache side effect. I doubt it is the saturated PC as I a few people have tried it on its own and it has no side effects except raising temps quite a bit in one person. Have you measured your temps when you get the headache?

 

[Soren]

Would MitoLipin have any potential benefit for those suffering from Opiate withdrawal and if so how?

Thanks.