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MitoLipin - Dietary Supplement For Cardiolipin And Mitochondria Support

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Ray has written extensively about the mitochondria and its crucial role in health. The structure and contents of the mitochondria undergo extensive change as part of the aging process and one of the most important constituents of mitochondria is the lipid cardiolipin (CL). CL is crucial for the proper function of complex IV (cytochrome C oxidase) of the electron transport chain, and oxidative metabolism as a whole. In addition, there is evidence that CL is also crucial for the proper functioning of Complex III and V.
    Cardiolipin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "...In mammalian cells, but also in plant cells,[2][3] cardiolipin (CL) is found almost exclusively in the inner mitochondrial membrane where it is essential for the optimal function of numerous enzymes that are involved in mitochondrial energy metabolism."

    "...The enzyme cytochrome c oxidase or Complex IV is a large transmembrane protein complex found in bacteria and the mitochondrion. It is the last enzyme in the respiratory electron transport chain of mitochondria (or bacteria) located in the mitochondrial (or bacterial) membrane. It receives an electron from each of four cytochrome c molecules, and transfers them to one oxygen molecule, converting molecular oxygen to two molecules of water. Complex IV has been shown to require two associated CL molecules in order to maintain its full enzymatic function. Cytochrome bc1(Complex III) also needs cardiolipin to maintain its quaternary structure and to maintains its functional role.[15] Complex V of the oxidative phosphorylation machinery also displays high binding affinity for CL, binding four molecules of CL per molecule of complex V.[16]"

    Another important function of CL is the activation of the mitochondrial side-cleavage enzyme, which is responsible for the synthesis of pregnenolone from cholesterol.
    "...
    • Cholesterol translocation from outer to the inner membrane of mitochondrial
    • Activates mitochondrial cholesterol side-chain cleavage
    ..."

    Given the importance of CL for proper functioning of mitochondria, it is not surprising that it plays a very important role in both health and disease.

    "...Oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation are believed to be contributing factors leading to neuronal loss and mitochondrial dysfunction in the substantia nigra in Parkinson's disease, and may play an early role in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease.[20][21] It is reported that CL content in the brain decreases with aging,[22] and a recent study on rat brain shows it results from lipid peroxidation in mitochondria exposed to free radical stress. Another study shows that the CL biosynthesis pathway may be selectively impaired, causing 20% reduction and composition change of the CL content.[23] It’s also associated with a 15% reduction in linked complex I/III activity of the electron transport chain, which is thought to be a critical factor in the development of Parkinson's disease.[24]"

    "...Recently, it is reported that in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease[25] and heart failure[26], decreased CL levels and change in acyl chain composition are also observed in the mitochondrial dysfunction. However, the role of CL in aging and ischemia/reperfusion is still controversial."

    "...Heart disease hits people with diabetes twice as often as people without diabetes. In those with diabetes, cardiovascular complications occur at an earlier age and often result in premature death, making heart disease the major killer of diabetic people. Cardiolipin has recently been found to be deficient in the heart at the earliest stages of diabetes, possibly due to a lipid-digesting enzyme that becomes more active in diabetic heart muscle.[29]"

    "...It was first proposed by Otto Heinrich Warburg that cancer originated from irreversible injury to mitochondrial respiration, but the structural basis for this injury has remained elusive. Since cardiolipin is an important phospholipid found almost exclusively in the inner mitochondrial membrane and very essential in maintaining mitochondrial function, it is suggested that abnormalities in CL can impair mitochondrial function and bioenergetics. A study[32] published in 2008 on mouse brain tumors supporting Warburg’s cancer theory shows major abnormalities in CL content or composition in all tumors."

    "...Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is debilitating illness of unknown cause that often follows an acute viral infection. According to one research study, 95% of CFS patients have anti-cardiolipin antibodies."


    And here are some quotes from Ray that also highlight the importance of CL for mitochondrial function and oxidative metabolism.
    Fats, functions and malfunctions.
    "...The crucial mitochondrial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome c oxidase, declines with aging (Paradies, et al., 1997), as the lipid cardiolipin declines, and the enzyme's activity can be restored to the level of young animals by adding cardiolipin. The composition of cardiolipin changes with aging, "specifically an increase in highly unsaturated fatty acids" (Lee, et al., 2006). Other lipids, such as a phosphatidylcholine containing two myristic acid groups, can support the enzyme's activity (Hoch, 1992). Even supplementing old animals with hydrogenated peanut oil restores mitochondrial respiration to about 80% of normal (Bronnikov, et al., 2010). Supplementing thyroid hormone increases mitochondrial cardiolipin (Paradies and Ruggiero, 1988). Eliminating the polyunsaturated fats from the diet increases mitochondrial respiration (Rafael, et al., 1984)."

    Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic
    "...After weaning, these native fats gradually disappear from the tissues and are replaced by the EFA and their derivatives. The age-related decline in our ability to use oxygen and to produce energy corresponds closely to the substitution of linoleic acid for the endogenous fats, in cardiolipin, which regulates the crucial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase."

    Mitochondria and mortality
    "...This fatty acid exposure "decreases glucose tolerance," and undoubtedly explains women's higher incidence of diabetes. While most fatty acids inhibit the oxidation of glucose without immediately inhibiting glycolysis, palmitic acid is unusual, in its inhibition of glycolysis and lactate production without inhibitng oxidation. I assume that this largely has to do with its important function in cardiolipin and cytochrome oxidase."

    "...Fewer mitochondrial problems will be considered to be inherited, as we develop an integral view of the ways in which mitochondrial physiology is disrupted. Palmitic acid, which is a major component of the cardiolipin which regulates the main respiratory enzyme, becomes displaced by polyunsaturated fats as aging progresses. Copper tends to be lost from this same enzyme system, and the state of the water is altered as the energetic processes change."

    Aspirin, brain, and cancer
    "...At birth, the baby's mitochondria contain a phospholipid, cardiolipin, containing palmitic acid, but as the baby eats foods containing poly-unsaturated fatty acids, the palmitic acid in cardiolipin is replaced by the unsaturated fats. As the cardiolipin becomes more unsaturated, it becomes less stable, and less able to support the activity of the crucial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome oxidase. The respiratory activity of the mitochondria declines as the polyunsaturated oils replace palmitic acid, and this change corresponds to the life-long decline of the person's metabolic rate. In old age, a person's life expectancy strongly depends on the amount of oxygen that can be used. When the mitochondria can't use oxygen vigorously, cells must depend on inefficient glycolysis for their energy."

    Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues
    "...Cytochrome oxidase is one of the enzymes damaged by stress and by blue light, and activated or restored by red light, thyroid, and progesterone. It's a copper enzyme, so it's likely to be damaged by excess iron. It is most active when it is associated with a mitochondrial lipid, cardiolipin, that contains saturated palmitic acid;the substitution of polyunsaturated fats lowers its activity. Mitochonrial function in general is poisoned by the unsaturated fats, especially arachidonic acid and DHA."


    As hinted by one of Ray's quotes above, in order to ensure the proper functioning of the enzyme cytochrome C oxidase, the cardiolipin (CL) must contain saturated fatty acids. If CL has been unsaturated by aging or another process, one way to get it saturated again is to supplement saturated cardiolipin directly. However, that process is unstable and wasteful. As Ray also mentioned, another approach would be to supplement with saturated phosphatidylcholine (PC), which bring saturated fatty acids directly into the CL and re-saturates it back to its state where it was when a person was first born. It is of key importance to note that in order for this process to work, the PC must be saturated - i.e. consist of lecithin linked to one of the saturated fatty acids, with palmitic acid being the most desired. The regular PC sold in stores is high unsaturated and will not only lack beneficial effect but may actually be harmful.
    As such, I have decided to release a supplement called MitoLipin containing saturated PC, more specifically dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (DPPC) and distearoylphosphatidylcholine (DSPC). Ray has responded to several people over email that if he could fund an affordable source of saturated PC he would probably supplement with it, and suggested doses in the 100mg - 300mg daily, at dinner.
    Finally, I would like note that apparent ability of saturated PC to enhance topical absorption of virtually any substance dissolved in it, which is very similar to the properties of DMSO. Thus, applying the supplement (MitoLipin) topically should have excellent absorption, perhaps even better than oral. To enhance the absorption and entry into the cell, the saturated PC is dissolved in tocopherol and MCT. Below is the summarized information about the supplement and some scientific references in regards to its effects.


    *******************************************************************************
    MitoLipin is a dietary supplement containing fully saturated phosphatidylcholine (PC). The saturated PC supports the function and structure of the mitochondrial lipid cardiolipin (CL). The CL is crucial for the proper functioning of several of the electron transport chain complexes (III, IV, and V) responsible for oxidative phosphorylation. The composition of CL changes with aging and becomes increasingly unsaturated. Saturated PC is believed to change the composition of CL back to saturated, as it is found in humans at birth, and thus restore optimal oxidative metabolism inside the mitochondria of every cell. This product, while consisting entirely of food-grade ingredients, is sanctioned for external use only.

    Servings per container: about 30
    Serving size: 40 drops
    Each serving contains the following ingredients:

    Dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (DPPC) - 100mg
    Distearoylphosphatidylcholine (DSPC) - 100mg

    Other ingredients: MCT, tocopherol
    *******************************************************************************

    References:


    Topical Administration:
    The skin-permeation-enhancing effect of phosphatidylcholine: caffeine as a model active ingredient. - PubMed - NCBI
    The hypocholesterolemic and antiatherogenic effects of topically applied phosphatidylcholine in rabbits with heritable hypercholesterolemia. - PubMed - NCBI
    Effects of phosphatidylcholine on the topical bioavailability of corticosteroids assessed by the human skin blanching assay. - PubMed - NCBI

    General/Miscellaneous:
    Cell membranes and apoptosis: role of cardiolipin, phosphatidylcholine, and anticancer lipid analogues. - PubMed - NCBI
    Biochemical effects of phosphatidylcholine treatment in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
    Rapid stopping of A23187 action by phosphatidylcholine. - PubMed - NCBI
    Blockade of alpha-adrenergic receptors by analogues of phosphatidylcholine. - PubMed - NCBI
    The effect of mixed phosphatidylcholine liposomes on beef heart cytochrome c oxidase [proceedings]. - PubMed - NCBI
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349506725899
    Inhibition of mammalian cytotoxic cells by phosphatidylcholine and its analogue
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/163252

    Inflammation:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18987473
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17636253
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23776397
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19215923

    Brain/Memory/Mood/Cognition/Nervous system:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25817232
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18361742
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23979483
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21937953
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9377589
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2938205
    http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/abs/10...d=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed&
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673683921086
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/555240

    Liver/Gallbladder:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17399847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25775923
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25783052
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26629827
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16550803
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15975496
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12837851
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7539565
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24292666
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21745592
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20832797
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8276192
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8276177

    Gut/Bowel/GI/Endotoxin:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25250596
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25477376
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496240
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17975182
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24796768
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18461026
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16482629
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15951544
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15345455
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11469682
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7493735
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23295697
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22576006
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22100851
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21105858
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21081908
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20926877
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20595010
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20135022
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048683
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19594939
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19120061
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8430278
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8399676
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1596725
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1289171

    Heart/Kidney:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23684996
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1420493

    Cancer:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17399847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24772432
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19579625

    Obesity/Diabetes/Metabolism:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25445436
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22468042
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22145579
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21614002

    Bones:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19766625
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19296835

    Anti-viral/anti-bacterial:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9708184
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8516563
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1570416
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1530351
     
  2. Ras

    Ras Member

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    What effects have you noticed from using these ingredients in this way, haidut?
     
  3. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    I know cardiolipin composition can be manipulated through diet ( via intake of saturated fats and omega 3) but this is a relatively slow process. Tucker writes a nice article about it here

    Where exactly is the evidence of "Saturated PC is believed to change the composition of CL back to saturated". You posted a lot of studies so I would like to be spoonfed where to find information on that if at all possible, lol. Even a condensed explanation of what the mechanisms are would be great.

    If the claims are true this will be an incredible product.
     
  4. BobbyDukes

    BobbyDukes Member

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    Is it a precursor to acetylcholine? I have taken choline based supplements before, and they have always blackened my mood.

    Also, on the wiki, they talk of a study where the microbal metabolites of phosphatidycholine are causing increased atherosclerosis in mice through choline, betaine and TMAO. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that, Haidut.

    Ordering a bottle now, though. If this one blackens my mood, choline supplements are out for good (I have previously tried CDP, alpha GPC and another one I forget the name of).
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    After about a week of taking 200mg, I felt like I was getting uncoupling effects and lost some weight. My waking temps were around 99 but pulse did not change. It also made me able to focus and do much longer stretches of mental effort. Mood improved a lot as well. Similar to the effects of a very high dose methylene blue (60mg). However, with that dose of methylene blue I experienced very pronounced increase in serotonin and it is not something that can be maintained for more than a few days. With MitoLipin (both topical and oral) I felt much more blissful, without the nervousness from the serotonin of high dose methylene blue. I guess the effects I got from MitoLipin are not that surprising since it acts very similar to methylene blue but through a different pathway. Methylene blue is an electron carrier and alternative oxidizing agent. MitoLipin acts like an antagonist of PUFA, so re-saturates the mitochondrial lipids. So, its effects are a bit like depleting yourself of PUFA but you don't have to wait 4 years to accomplish that :)
    I hope that answers your questions.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Very good points. Juts like you pointed out, cardiolipin can be manupulated through diet but it would take months/years to have any effects. The properties of phosphatidylcholine make it such that the saturated fat in it is carried directly into the mitochondria. So, it re-saturates the cell from the inside. Peat told me that over email and there are studies showing saturated PC like DPPC protects the cell from PUFA toxicity. Basically, lecithin is a very good carrier for substances to go directly into the cell mitochondria, and phosphatidylcholine is even better. There are many pharma drugs that are being either encapsulated in phosphatidylcholine in order to improve their penetration into the cell. You can think of saturated PC as carrier of saturated fat directly into the mitochondria, similar to the effectiveness with which DMSO carries steroids into the cell. Finally, judging from its structure, saturated PC is an electron acceptor or a type of electron withdrawing group (EWG) as Gilbert Ling labels substances. Here are some links to consider:
    Dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (dppc) Protects From Pufa Cytotoxicity
    Saturated Fats And Mitochondrias

    The second thread above has a long discussion about DPPC and studies about its effects. The studies were sent by Peat. Also, here are some links about using PC as a carrier of substances into the cell/mitochondria.

    Phosphatidylcholine, an edible carrier for nanoencapsulation of unstable thiamine. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...The crystalline nature of thiamine was analyzed by X-ray diffraction studies. Storage studies indicated that the nanoliposomes were highly stable up to 3 months at different temperatures. Thus, phosphatidylcholine can be used as carrier vehicle of nutrients especially vitamins, as it can form stable nanoliposomes with 97% encapsulation efficiency."

    http://www.academicjournals.org/journal/AJFS/article-full-text-pdf/557347144263
    "...Phosphatidylcholine is a yellowish, hygroscopic and little stable solid (Figure 3). It is easily decomposed at high temperatures and degraded by the action of oxygen when exposed to air and moisture for long periods. Its main degradation product is the lysophosphatidylcholine resulting from hydrolysis of the ester function on the carbon at positions 1 or 2 of glycerol, giving a molecule with only one non-polar chain (Reis, 2010). Its presence dramatically increases the permeability of liposome membranes and reduces the capacity of retaining encapsulated material (Lutz et al., 1995)."

    Recent Developments in Delivery, Bioavailability, Absorption and Metabolism of Curcumin: the Golden Pigment from Golden Spice
    "...Curcumin-decorated nanoliposomes has shown high affinity for amyloid-β1-42 peptide and exhibit protective effects against Alzhiemer's disease [66]. LEC also suppresses HNSCC growth in vitro and xenograft tumor in mice [40]. Curcumin liposomes of dimyristoyl phosphatidyl choline and cholesterol inhibit proliferation of prostate cancer cell 10 times more than curcumin [67]."
     

    Attached Files:

  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    In theory, it is a precursor to acetylcholine. However, the studies with PC (and especially saturated PC) did not show any cholinergic effects. See the studies in the brain/mood section of the original thread. The primary benefit of saturated PC is to protect the cell from PUFA toxicity and re-saturate the cardiolipin inside the mitochondria. If it has any cholinergic effets, they are probably seen in multi-gram doses. In the doses found in MitoLipin, it is similar to eating 2 eggs, but without the PUFA that they contain. See this:
    Dipalmitoylphosphatidylcholine (dppc) Protects From Pufa Cytotoxicity
     
  8. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

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    Congrats on another intriguing product, Haidut!

    Here's the title-ified references since the forum appears to have given up partway through:

    Topical Administration:

    General/Miscellaneous:

    Inflammation:

    Brain/Memory/Mood/Cognition/Nervous system:

    Liver/Gallbladder:

    Gut/Bowel/GI/Endotoxin:

    Heart/Kidney:

    Cancer:

    Obesity/Diabetes/Metabolism:

    Bones:

    Anti-viral/anti-bacterial:
     
  9. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I'll give some a shot haidut. You just used it for a week, anything to be aware of on longer term use? I.E the build up of MB overtime, etc. Are there any similar products out there to compare it to? In my experience I have not seen anything like it.
     
  10. newpeatie

    newpeatie New Member

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    @haidut How were you able to bring down the costs? Or did you find a way to saturate it?
     
  11. jaa

    jaa Member

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    Any idea how long it would to saturate one's CL stores given the daily dose (say for a 30/40/50/60 yo)?

    How long will this product keep?
     
  12. milushq

    milushq Member

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    Haidut, Hi! I wonder, just how useful this supplement may be for a non-peater with high cholesterol and how long it might take to lower it, if you have any information on this? Looks very promising.
     
  13. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    Would it work to unsaturate your fatty tissues (not just cell membranes) as well then making it produce less aromatase?
    If you are eating a bit of PUFA (like 2g/day) would it compete with it in your body to remove it?

    Would it be a good idea to still eat eggs with it as it has some PUFA in it?

    Have you thought about making some liposomal supplements?

    Thanks for your great ideas!
     
  14. Kasper

    Kasper Member

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    Huuuum, interesting, would be awesome if Ray Peat orders a bottle
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks Dan. Much appreciated.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I have used for longer than a week, it's the uncoupling effects that I got after a week of use. Before I release any suplpement, I use it for a month on myself and a few friends willing to contribute to science :) As far as I can see there is no issue with buildup and it is probably something to be desired, especially if you have a lot of stored PUFA. Take a look at the studies I posted above on PC as treatment for ulcerative colitis. The studies lasted a long time with no side effects.
    To my knowledge, there is no other supplement like this on the market right now.
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    One of the chemical suppliers that I use agreed to synthesize a much bigger quantity of DPPC/DSTC for lower price, given that I buy a lot of stuff from them. DPPC is the really expensive part, and most of the cost is for it.
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't know for sure but most studies on cholesterol, liver health, and brain condition saw benefits within 4-8 weeks. The reversal of cirrhosis with saturated PC is an established fact in Russia and some other Eastern European countries where saturated PC is sold as a drug for liver disease. I think a human course for cirrhosis runs for 2 months. You should also be able to tell by running some liver tests and metabolic tests like cholesterol, CO2, and NEFA.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The studies with saturated PC on cholesterol, liver fat and TG lasted 4-8 weeks. With the risk of you not buying it I will say that something like 2g taurine/glycine, 15mg biotin, 100mg pregnenolone, 5mg DHEA, etc can give you the same bang for much less buck. The purpose of this supplement is not so much cholesterol as it is to systemically antagonize PUFA toxicity in every cell and revert the mitochondria back to its youthful state. Lower cholesterol and leaner liver are are just symptoms of that rejuvenation. But if you want to buy it, I am not going to talk you out of it :)
     
  20. Kennya

    Kennya Member

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    Ok just ordered it. Haidut is the Mitolipin light sensitive? Does it stain? How long does it need to be left on the skin?
     
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