Minimum Recommended Fat Intake

[sladerunner69]

Topical DHEA and pregnenolone + caffeine + Frolov device (all to keep CO2 levels up.)

How much topical dhea/preg do you take daily? And what is your dosageplit?

 

[DaveFoster]

How much topical dhea/preg do you take daily? And what is your dosageplit?

6-7 cups coffee throughout the day, and haidut's Pansterone (4 drops 3-4 x/day)

 

[sladerunner69]

6-7 cups coffee throughout the day, and haidut's Pansterone (4 drops 3-4 x/day)

Whoahoohooo!!! that is quite a load of pansterone man. Considerring dsmo has a potentiating factor of 10x, isnt that dosage akin to taking 20mgDHEA+20mg pregnenelone? If done 3 times that is 60mg DHEA per day!! The limit is supposed to be around 10-15 before it strts converting to estrogen!

And speaking of 6-7 cups of coffee, is that one measured cup, or a large mug or something?

 

[DaveFoster]

Whoahoohooo!!! that is quite a load of pansterone man. Considerring dsmo has a potentiating factor of 10x, isnt that dosage akin to taking 20mgDHEA+20mg pregnenelone? If done 3 times that is 60mg DHEA per day!! The limit is supposed to be around 10-15 before it strts converting to estrogen!

And speaking of 6-7 cups of coffee, is that one measured cup, or a large mug or something?

For the Pansterone, that's 2.5 mg topical DHEA and 2.5 mg topical pregnenolone x4/day, so 10 mg each. The estrogen conversion doesn't really apply to the potentiated dose (it favor androgenic production anyway.)

For the coffee; it's instant. 6-7 teaspoons of instant Folger's coffee mixed with milk, sugar, gelatin, coconut oil, taurine, creatine, and 2 TSP salt. Blend.

 

[sladerunner69]

For the Pansterone, that's 2.5 mg topical DHEA and 2.5 mg topical pregnenolone x4/day, so 10 mg each. The estrogen conversion doesn't really apply to the potentiated dose (it favor androgenic production anyway.)

For the coffee; it's instant. 6-7 teaspoons of instant Folger's coffee mixed with milk, sugar, gelatin, coconut oil, taurine, creatine, and 2 TSP salt. Blend.

Havent you read about the potentiating effect that dmso has on steroids? Haduit explains that any steroid mixed with dmso is 10x as effective. That is why just 5mg of his pregenenlone/dmso product is needed.

 

[DaveFoster]

Havent you read about the potentiating effect that dmso has on steroids? Haduit explains that any steroid mixed with dmso is 10x as effective. That is why just 5mg of his pregenenlone/dmso product is needed.

Right, but topical application favors androgenic conversion over estrogenic conversion.

Pansterone - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Rejuvenation

 

[DaveFoster]

Yet another question - why favor topical administration? There are several reasons but the most important ones are that topical administration of steroids like DHEA increase both their half-life and effectiveness. In addition, topical administration of DHEA has been shown to favor the androgenic pathways of conversion, thus reducing even further concerns about potential estrogenicity of DHEA. With topical application of a single dose of Pansterone, a person is probably getting the same effects as 100mg+ oral DHEA and WITHOUT the estrogenic side effects. Here are some additional sources discussing these issues.
http://examine.com/supplements/dehydroe ... summary3-0
"...Interestingly, no differences were seen in circulating DHEA, testosterone or estrogen levels between the cream or gel yet the cream resulted in significantly higher androstenedione concentration at 24 hours and topical administration in general favored androgen metabolism more than oral administration."
"...Topical administration also shows larger blood values of hormones over a period of days; although suggestive of a potentiating effect, this may be due to the effects of DHEA applied topically lasting more than 24 hours.[31] Over a period of 12 months, serum levels of daily application are similar to those seem when measured at 28 days."
"...Topical administration appears to have comparable overall bioavailability (percent hitting the bloodstream) when compared to oral ingestion. Topical seems to influence androgens like testosterone more than oral ingestion, and although there are no differences in the short term DHEA cream appears to be better than DHEA gel."

High bioavailability of dehydroepiandrosterone administered percutaneously in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI
"...By the oral route, on the other hand. DHEA has only 10-15% of the activity of the compound given percutaneously. Taking the bioavailability obtained by the subcutaneous route as 100%, it is estimated that the potencies of DHEA by the percutaneous and oral routes are approximately 33 and 3% respectively."

The last quote above effectively states that topical Pansterone is about 6-10 times more potent as oral.

WARNING: It is crucial not to exceed 15mg total DHEA daily dose use even with topical administration. This amounts to using no more than 3 daily doses of Pansterone. The reason for this restriction is that even with topical administration, human studies found that estrogen went up when the total daily dose of DHEA exceeded 18mg (6g of a 0.3% DHEA cream). Here is a study showing that effect:
http://www.hormonebalance.org/images/do ... 20JSBM.pdf
"...Serum estradiol (E2) followed a comparable pattern with the first significant increase being seen at the 0.3% DHEA cream concentration."

@sladerunner69

 

[Stryker]

for me the more fat i eat the more my health deteriorates in every facet.
so i aim for 10% of total cals or less

except for pure mct..that shits god damn rocket fuel

 

[EIRE24]

I've been eating 240 g fat/day; I feel fine. Pretty calm throughout the day. I think I'll bump it down to 180.

You find yourself weight stable on this amount of fat? How much carbs and protein do you eat?

 

[DaveFoster]

You find yourself weight stable on this amount of fat? How much carbs and protein do you eat?

Not really about 170 g protein and 400-600 g carbs.

 

[Xhale1991]

Not really about 170 g protein and 400-600 g carbs.

how much do you weigh and what is your activity level like?

 

[DaveFoster]

how much do you weigh and what is your activity level like?

I'm 5'9", 210, 15% body fat. Moderately active on weekdays. Sedentary on weekends.

 

[squanch]

I'm at 180g fat and 4500kcal at the moment.
Never really noticed much of a difference between higher and lower fat intake. I do start to feel weird below ~50g fat though. Doesn't really make a difference when it comes to weight gain for me as long as the total calories stay the same.
Not trying to attack anyone personally here and I'm probably going to get a lot of ***t for this, but: I feel like most people who claim to gain weight when they increase fat intake or have problems with higher bodyfat in general almost all fall into the category of "I really enjoy eating and I don't like to count my calories or track my food", "If I take this or that supplement and increase my metabolism I don't have to think about calories and can just eat whatever I want". It's very easy to change your weight in any direction if you simply eat roughly the same meals every day, track your calories and adjust accordingly. Except for the extreme ends of the spectrum, macros don't really matter as much as people think when it comes to weight gain.

 

[OJ15]

I'm currently doing between 100-120 fat, around 3000 cals. I'm trying to gain weight/muscle (as well as healing my metabolism) and can see myself changing the ratios a bit once I've reached my goal, before heading into a maintenance phase.

Quick question: Am I right in assuming the body will be more keen on storing belly fat (for men), as the metabolism heals? Let's assume the body has experienced a stressful stretch of time (gone into "hunger mode"). Once calories become plenty again the body stores some fat for future use, as a drought could be around the corner. Will the body then shed this fat after a period of refeeding, as it starts relaxing/not fearing another period of hunger and stress?

I hope you were able to follow my analogy. I have a little flab below my belly button (I've read this is cortisol related) - a little annoying because I'm skinny everywhere else (6'2, 167 lbs).

Cheers

 

[tara]

Quick question: Am I right in assuming the body will be more keen on storing belly fat (for men), as the metabolism heals? Let's assume the body has experienced a stressful stretch of time (gone into "hunger mode"). Once calories become plenty again the body stores some fat for future use, as a drought could be around the corner. Will the body then shed this fat after a period of refeeding, as it starts relaxing/not fearing another period of hunger and stress?

From my reading, there can be such trends.
But that doesn't guarantee exactly how much fat your particular body might want to hold on to even when it no longer considers itself in danger of famine (ie how much your natural/genetic fat might be), nor what it would take to convince it that it is safe (may depend on how long/hard you've stressed it, and what other unresolved stresses are going on in life).

May also be other factors involved other than straight calorie deficiency/sufficiency - eg the rest of ones nutritional status, other needs like light, breathing habits, etc.

 

[OJ15]

From my reading, there can be such trends.
But that doesn't guarantee exactly how much fat your particular body might want to hold on to even when it no longer considers itself in danger of famine (ie how much your natural/genetic fat might be), nor what it would take to convince it that it is safe (may depend on how long/hard you've stressed it, and what other unresolved stresses are going on in life).

May also be other factors involved other than straight calorie deficiency/sufficiency - eg the rest of ones nutritional status, other needs like light, breathing habits, etc.

Thanks Tara, and yes, inadequate calories are obviously just one piece of the puzzle - a mighty intricate and overwhelming puzzle at that. The quest continues...

 

[OJ15]

Btw, how is it that some hypothyroid people are underweight and find it challenging to gain weight?
Seems counterintuitive to me.

 

[berk]

What I have noticed about myself and many others is that it seems like those who are new and have more damaged metabolisms do best relying on simple sugars for carbs rather than starches and keeping a decent or moderate amount of fat. But once their metabolisms heal and digestion picks up, they can usually go very low fat without any problems and even do well on some starches. I have been Peating for a few years now and have been taking thyroid for a year and am now finding that I can do very low fat. In fact, I am currently experimenting with a very very low fat diet (under 10% of total caloric intake, at the very maximum) and I have been doing very great. I notice that I digest white rice and potatoes very well as long as they are cooked thoroughly. The only time I have been eating fat is with my last meal of the night (dinner). This allows me to stay very low fat while getting enough fat in with my last meal to slow down absorption of nutrients and help me sleep. I have also leaned out fairly well since starting this way of eating, despite eating as many carbs as I desire as long as my fat intake is very very low. I have no issues and take my fat soluble vitamins with my last meal which usually has some fat. I really think that if someone is really healthy, chances are they could do low fat with no problem as long as they get enough protein and carbs in. I actually feel better and have better mental clarity without eating all the fat, which, quite honestly, makes me feel sluggish and definitely doesn't help with staying lean.

couple questions:
- what do you mean with: "even do well on some starch"
what are the problems/symptoms when someone not doing well on some starch?

- what do you mean with: "I have been doing very great."
what are the problems/symptoms when you not doing great?

- what do you mean with: "they could do low fat with no problem"
what are the problems/symptoms if they are not doing great on it?