Minimalism!

dfspcc20

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
633
Just to expand on the topic of efficiency: it can be viewed on more than one level. Continuing with the dishwasher example, sure, it frees up some time for me. But consider that my dishwasher is being used maybe an hour at most every day. It sits idle for 23 hours. Same could be said for pretty much every house in my neighborhood (and probably most, if not all, of suburbia). Millions of fancy dishwashers sitting idle most of the time. Is that really an efficient use of space and resources on a collective level? Same could be said for many of our conveniences.
Mostly being rhetorical here. I'm sure this will have me labeled as a Communist.
 
OP
Luann

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
Nah I think dfspcc said it when he (you) brought up convenience. The line between "totally need this" and "just makes life easier" is where a normal person starts to turn into a bare-bones like me.
 
OP
Luann

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
Oh and the thing about dishes is that they take me 10 minutes or so. I use low soap since I found out online I could get away with it and still not get sick. It turns out more soap doesn't kill more germs once you have like a base amount of soap in there. So it doesn't take me long to rinse my dishes and there are days when I just eat dinner on my lunch dishes so yeah.
 

bobbybobbob

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
203
Minimalism and Simplicity are incredibly difficult terms to define. Really think about it and try to define what Simple means in any meaningful way. While you're at it, define Complexity and Complect.

I think at root there's this fantasy that in past times life was simpler, because there were fewer physical possessions and financial products. But life was probably far more complicated in most ways. Hell, nobody can even darn a sock anymore.

Earn a lot of money doing one thing and pay other people to do absolutely everything else for your lifestyle -- that's about the simplest lifestyle possible. But that's probably not what people have in mind when they talk about simple living.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
I am sitting on a futon with multiple infared lights shining on me. Also plugged into that outlet is a guitar amp, guitar pedals, a flatscreen television, a laptop, a lamp, an alarm clock. In my closet I have dozens of vitamin bottles and dozzens of articles of clothing. There are countless more random, unique items with sentimental value around my room, under my bed, on the shelves. Many many books, cds, and videogames. And if any one of these items I have mentioned was lost or taken from me, I would be really really irritated. And I wouldn't have my life be any other way.

I think minimalism is nice because it reduces over all stress, but it also reduces the over all potential for a rich and beautiful life. I am an intellgient, sentient being who has little difficulty coping with the various responsibilites of ownsership, and the more I possess, the more I fundamentally am.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
Minimalism and Simplicity are incredibly difficult terms to define. Really think about it and try to define what Simple means in any meaningful way. While you're at it, define Complexity and Complect.

I think at root there's this fantasy that in past times life was simpler, because there were fewer physical possessions and financial products. But life was probably far more complicated in most ways. Hell, nobody can even darn a sock anymore.

Earn a lot of money doing one thing and pay other people to do absolutely everything else for your lifestyle -- that's about the simplest lifestyle possible. But that's probably not what people have in mind when they talk about simple living.


Life was simpler, but so were people's minds. An agricultural-type person would probably not be very well educated, for if they were reading many books on politics or philosophy, they were would probably aspire for a position of power or something with more significance and creativity.

Pol Pot and his khmer rouge understood that ignorant, simple people amd ethe best peasants, and so tried to oust or destroy anybody who desired to obtain an education. Ghandi preached similar ideas, as did pashtun, but without the violent authoritarianism to back him up. (In fact he proposed, in contrast, non-violent, spiritual, non-education)

I think the distinction you and I have both pointed to is one of efficiency as opposed to simplicity. For me, a simple life is not necessarily better or more fruitful. A complex life with many possessions and obligations and questions to ponder is much more desirable to me, however it can be made easier and less stressful by finding methods to increase efficiency of living.
 

Lecarpetron

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
192
I say cherry pick from the offerings of capitalism/perceived features of "simple life". I just sold my house and bought one half the size...but I'm not giving up a dishwasher. I just gave up unnecessary space, which I found attracted unwanted furniture, animals, and people - which complicate life way more than ownership of an electric clothes dryer or a few extra pairs of pants.

p.s. marikay, I too read Kondo's book and chose to keep a pair of 5" Badgely Mischka heels that I will likely never wear again. :D
 

Jayfish

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
256
Minimalism is great. The things you own really do end up owning you. A cluttered home = a cluttered mind.

Although there is something to be said for collecting plants and books.
 

bobbybobbob

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
203
Life was simpler, but so were people's minds. An agricultural-type person would probably not be very well educated

That is a highly questionable assertion. I would posit the opposite. The average citizen today is probably stupider and understands fewer ideas less about the physical world than his medi-eval ancestors.
 
OP
Luann

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
I am sitting on a futon with multiple infared lights shining on me. Also plugged into that outlet is a guitar amp, guitar pedals, a flatscreen television, a laptop, a lamp, an alarm clock. In my closet I have dozens of vitamin bottles and dozzens of articles of clothing. There are countless more random, unique items with sentimental value around my room, under my bed, on the shelves. Many many books, cds, and videogames. And if any one of these items I have mentioned was lost or taken from me, I would be really really irritated. And I wouldn't have my life be any other way.

I think minimalism is nice because it reduces over all stress, but it also reduces the over all potential for a rich and beautiful life. I am an intellgient, sentient being who has little difficulty coping with the various responsibilites of ownsership, and the more I possess, the more I fundamentally am.


Go you. To hear your sentiments expressed so well makes me proud to be human. In the end, that's what we want out of our stuff, our life: while to have less makes me feel like a million bucks, to have more gives you the same self-worth. I like this. I like this a lot.
 
OP
Luann

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
That is a highly questionable assertion. I would posit the opposite. The average citizen today is probably stupider and understands fewer ideas less about the physical world than his medi-eval ancestors.


I have heard a few different quotes about how any fool can complicate life, but it takes a genius to simplify it. That always puffs me up real good when I throw something away. Lol.
 
OP
Luann

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,615
I say cherry pick from the offerings of capitalism/perceived features of "simple life". I just sold my house and bought one half the size...but I'm not giving up a dishwasher. I just gave up unnecessary space, which I found attracted unwanted furniture, animals, and people - which complicate life way more than ownership of an electric clothes dryer or a few extra pairs of pants.

p.s. marikay, I too read Kondo's book and chose to keep a pair of 5" Badgely Mischka heels that I will likely never wear again. :D

I literally want to change user-names to "cherrypicker" because what you said kinda sums up how I try to live. Just did a month of shopping ONLY salvage grocery, expired or discount food, flea market and thrift clothing. It wasn't easy especially between work shifts when the discount outlet was all the way downtown. But cherry picking from the capitalism refuse is a really good summation of, like, things.
 

CoolTweetPete

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
730
Age
37
Location
San Francisco
It's strange how items you own (even if they're not right in front of you) seem to occupy space in your mind until you pull the trigger and get rid of them.
 

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
2,286
I've found that being in an optimal metabolic state completely eliminates feelings of "achy" nostalgia. In other words, the past is not something that is deeply missed, and is valued less than the present moment.

I think a lot of "hoarding" behavior stems from a yearning for the past, because people generally were healthier in their past than in their present.

Cleaning up can put you in a better mood, but being in a good mood can also allow you to clean up.
 

PeatThemAll

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
280
I've found that being in an optimal metabolic state completely eliminates feelings of "achy" nostalgia. In other words, the past is not something that is deeply missed, and is valued less than the present moment.

I think a lot of "hoarding" behavior stems from a yearning for the past, because people generally were healthier in their past than in their present.

Cleaning up can put you in a better mood, but being in a good mood can also allow you to clean up.

Personally, I think hoarding is a symptom of a lack of confidence in one's self (and or very close family members) ability to provide for the future. On the other hand, as mentioned above, some possessions are required (at least for me) to have a feeling of 1) not having to bother with the necessary / seasonal / routine basics and 2) having some visible proof that I am not the same person that I was a year ago (living in your head only = not for me), even though I have this policy of 1 incoming = 1 donated/disposed of, especially books (paraphrasing David Allen, the mind is for having ideas, not storing them).
 

Shrimp

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
223
I love keeping my overall amount of stuff to a minimum, and recently re-did my room and got rid of maybe 50% of my belongings. I like things that can be used for multiple purposes to further simplify things; I sleep on a futon that folds into a couch, and use my computer as my "TV." I try to avoid purchasing furniture with shelves and drawers because it just promotes the collection of junk in/on them. Also, I found Decluttr.com pretty helpful in getting rid of some old CDs etc.

I do keep a few sentimental knick-knacks and stuffed animals, but not enough to cause any real clutter. It is so nice to come home to a clean, spacious room peppered with a few of my favorite things after working each day at a messy, chaotic bakery.
 

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
2,286
That is a highly questionable assertion. I would posit the opposite. The average citizen today is probably stupider and understands fewer ideas less about the physical world than his medi-eval ancestors.

The underlying theme of technological progress is the development of "systems" that do work for you.

Language, writing, numerals, are examples of such systems, and these work well. Part of the reason they work so well is because humans have such an innate ability for them that flaws in the system can be filled in with our "intuition" (body language, recognizing spelling errors, etc.)

Conversely, computers don't have intuition, so even the most obvious of errors will stop a program from running.

Schooling depends heavily on analytical, logical systems, with the student having to suspend their intuition. This paradigm is inappropriately applied to subjects like biology. Many well educated people who do not have an informed opinion about something will default to the "system" (in this case popular scientific consensus) before actually trying to understand things on a deeper level.
 

CoolTweetPete

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
730
Age
37
Location
San Francisco
Great post, @lvysaur. Very well put.
 

Similar threads

Replies
16
Views
4K
James IV
J
Back
Top Bottom