Mineral Ratios

[Cloudhands]

So i find it quite hard to find a way to balance minerals as far as calcium, magnesium and phosphorus. As far as i understand, you want to aim for a 11 magnesium:calcium:phosphorus ratio that can be even higher. Any thoughts? How do you feel with levels you reach?

 

[linx]

If you get your calcium up to where Peat likes to go (~ 2g/day) then good luck getting your magnesium up that high :) Personally I don't worry too much about the ratios. If I can get calcium up near 2g/day, and magnesium to bowel tolerance I figure I'm good. For me that's usually 1.5-2g calcium and 600 mg magnesium.

 

[Cloudhands]

If you get your calcium up to where Peat likes to go (~ 2g/day) then good luck getting your magnesium up that high :) Personally I don't worry too much about the ratios. If I can get calcium up near 2g/day, and magnesium to bowel tolerance I figure I'm good. For me that's usually 1.5-2g calcium and 600 mg magnesium.

Thanks for responding! How do u feel? How are your temps?

 

[linx]

My waking temps are in the 97.6-98 range and during the day I hover in the mid 98s with occasional jumps up to 99. I feel pretty good most of the time when I'm not screwing myself up with too much supplement experimentation :) I definitely have not reached Peat nirvana yet though. I'm somewhere along the journey, like most of us I suspect. I still require cypro to sleep well and I still wake up once per night to pee. I also have a condition called blepharitis (eyelid inflammation/dryness) which has improved greatly since starting peating but is not yet fully resolved.

 

[baccheion]

1 : 1 : 1 assuming 800-1,200 mg phosphorus. Up to 2:1 calcium:magnesium is fine. The original magnesium RDA was to be 800 mg, set on the assumption 800 mg calcium would be consumed. 700 mg phosphorus RDA is close to 800 mg. Higher serum 25(OH)D rounds it all out nicely.

Phosphorus is said to be a poison above 1,200 mg anyway..

If anything it would be 2.4g calcium, 1.2g phosphorus, and 1.2g magnesium.

800 mg calcium sounds best to me and the associated magnesium is above the 10 mg/kg number.

10 mg/kg of each would also work fine with enough vitamin D.

1,200 mg calcium is said to be enough to trigger weight loss effect.

 

[Cloudhands]

1 : 1 : 1 assuming 800-1,200 mg phosphorus. Up to 2:1 calcium:magnesium is fine. The original magnesium RDA was to be 800 mg, set on the assumption 800 mg calcium would be consumed. 700 mg phosphorus RDA is close to 800 mg. Higher serum 25(OH)D rounds it all out nicely.

Phosphorus is said to be a poison above 1,200 mg anyway..

If anything it would be 2.4g calcium, 1.2g phosphorus, and 1.2g magnesium.

800 mg calcium sounds best to me and the associated magnesium is above the 10 mg/kg number.

10 mg/kg of each would also work fine with enough vitamin D.

1,200 mg calcium is said to be enough to trigger weight loss effect.

Beautiful response sir! How do u postulate one would create that ratio with foods?

 

[baccheion]

Beautiful response sir! How do u postulate one would create that ratio with foods?

I'd meet magnesium RDA with food, then add a supplement. Magnesium glycinate or magnesium oil spray, for example. Potatoes have a lot of magnesium. Same with fruits. Beet greens.

 

[Cloudhands]

I'd meet magnesium RDA with food, then add a supplement. Magnesium glycinate or magnesium oil spray, for example. Potatoes have a lot of magnesium. Same with fruits. Beet greens.

What about protein? RP opts for 100-150ish g of protein a day and this will bring in large amounts of phosphorus even if accomplished by dairy

 

[baccheion]

What about protein? RP opts for 100-150ish g of protein a day and this will bring in large amounts of phosphorus even if accomplished by dairy

Put into CRON-o-meter. Shouldn't be hard to get in range. Collards have a high calcium:phosphorus ratio, especially given calcium absorption is 2x what's expected. Turnip green ratio is somewhat high..

 

[Amazoniac]

Comparison of the trace minerals in some "foods":

Spoiler

I had to multiply the selenium content by 10 for it to show.
Livers make all others appear to be low in copper. Same for oysters and zinc.

Adjusted based on their molecular weights.


I may add more later.
If you spot something odd, let me know so that I verify.

 

[Cloudhands]

Comparison of the trace minerals in some "foods":

Spoiler

View attachment 22148

Spoiler

I had to multiply the selenium content by 10 for it to show.​

Livers make all others appear to be low in copper. Same for oysters and zinc.​

​

​

View attachment 22149​

Adjusted based on their molecular weights.​

​

​

I may add more later.​

If you spot something odd, let me know so that I verify.​

​

I would check out kidney for selenium

 

[Cloudhands]

Comparison of the trace minerals in some "foods":

Spoiler

View attachment 22148

Spoiler

I had to multiply the selenium content by 10 for it to show.​

Livers make all others appear to be low in copper. Same for oysters and zinc.​

​

​

View attachment 22149​

Adjusted based on their molecular weights.​

​

​

I may add more later.​

If you spot something odd, let me know so that I verify.​

​

Also, clams for iron, pineapple or mussels for Mn, and molasses for other minerals as well

 

[Amazoniac]

Some of the "foods" that Cloudhands mentioned were included:

Spoiler

I might later ask for this post to be deleted and edit the previous.

 

[CreakyJoints]

Some fun charts.

Thank you very much for these - are the shiitake values in the first chart from fresh rather than dried or cooked?

 

[Amazoniac]

Thank you very much for these - are the shiitake values in the first chart from fresh rather than dried or cooked?

Cooked, yet for livers values are raw. Drastic changes in content are more common for water-soluble vitamins, but it does affect, even if it's just by altering the amount of water in a serving.

It's not taken into account how available the minerals are. We're moving towards setting a standard for each nutrient, where we can compare how it fares in relation to when it's occurring in specific foods. An example is the killcium in spinach, it's there, but availability is low. However, there's still the issue of food combining (promoters and inhibitors) that complicates prediction.

- Challenges to Quantify Total Vitamin Activity: How to Combine the Contribution of Diverse Vitamers?

 

[CreakyJoints]

Cooked, yet for livers values are raw. Drastic changes in content are more common for water-soluble vitamins, but it does affect, even if it's just by altering the amount of water in a serving.

It's not taken into account how available the minerals are. We're moving towards setting a standard for each nutrient, where we can compare how it fares in relation to when it's occurring in specific foods. An example is the killcium in spinach, it's there, but availability is low. However, there's still the issue of food combining (promoters and inhibitors) that complicates prediction.

- Challenges to Quantify Total Vitamin Activity: How to Combine the Contribution of Diverse Vitamers?

Thank you! Yes, I asked because I remember reading that shiitake mushrooms are something like 90% water - they're most commonly available here dried, and I assume the values there would be even slightly lower, but that's still quite encouraging in a way.

This is a very (un?)illuminating article; it's very interesting how often they refer to a lack of data/studies on bioavailability of certain vitamins and their derivatives, but it was only done in 2019! I didn't realise quite how little we know.

 

[Amazoniac]

Thank you! Yes, I asked because I remember reading that shiitake mushrooms are something like 90% water - they're most commonly available here dried, and I assume the values there would be even slightly lower, but that's still quite encouraging in a way.

This is a very (un?)illuminating article; it's very interesting how often they refer to a lack of data/studies on bioavailability of certain vitamins and their derivatives, but it was only done in 2019! I didn't realise quite how little we know.

Here is they compared:

Spoiler

 

[CreakyJoints]

Here is they compared:

Spoiler

View attachment 22294

Spoiler

​

View attachment 22295​

​

Thank you very much! That's fascinating that the iron content seems to diminish inversely to copper - am I understanding that correctly?

I know that traditional preparation methods in certain countries (South Korea, for instance) often involved drying them first, and this was possibly meant to prevent the spread of parasites and other undesirables. I think they also re-hydrate them overnight in water, I wonder if that would also have an impact - Ray Peat mentions that this is true of rice, but only when the rice is still 'alive'.

 

[Amazoniac]

Thank you very much! That's fascinating that the iron content seems to diminish inversely to copper - am I understanding that correctly?

I know that traditional preparation methods in certain countries (South Korea, for instance) often involved drying them first, and this was possibly meant to prevent the spread of parasites and other undesirables. I think they also re-hydrate them overnight in water, I wonder if that would also have an impact - Ray Peat mentions that this is true of rice, but only when the rice is still 'alive'.

I think that such difference between raw and processed is due to the information not being derived from the same experiment.

 

[CreakyJoints]

I think that such difference between raw and processed is due to the information not being derived from the same experiment.

Thank you for the clarification! I should have guessed it was something like that, I suppose.