Milky Questions

[Amazoniac]

• Is it possible to interfere with normal levels of vit D with too much calcium from dairy? In the same way that low calcium intake leads to low vit D, wouldn't high calcium intake have the same effect? Or the excess is just easily excreted? I assume it can also interfere with the absorption of other minerals when it’s in excess, no?

• Why mainstream media is obsessed with increased IGF-1 when there are many other endocrine markers involved in aging?

• Is it possible to complete mitigate the (undesirable?) effects of ruminant milk on our hormones with nutrients? I’m one of those who are extremely affected by the whey portion of milk, giving me terrible acne, quite the opposite of the milk complexion. And acne and elevated endocrine markers of aging/inflammation are strongly correlated as far as I know, I don’t know if it’s wise on my part to insist considering how bad I react to it, skin wise. I’m sure the issue is not as simple as that but the irony is that I don’t have any problems digesting dairy, including milk. No bloating, no discomfort, no food sitting on stomach, etc. It’s something in whey that affects me badly, because the effect of yogurt is much milder and cheese is non-existent.

• As far as I know there are no long-lived people that consumed a lot of milk. Is it good to use dairy as your main source of protein regarding longevity? I understand that it’s useful to improve metabolism, but after I point isn’t it too much stimulating?

• I believe it was haidut that mentioned that casein stimulates insulin secretion 3x more than other proteins, how is that a good thing? No sarcasm. This is something I still don't understand. You have to add more sugar to balance a very insulinogenic protein, and the same question, how is that healthy in the long-term? Isn't it beneficial to keep insulin as stable as possible?

Sorry for the déjà vu, any ignorant or too basic question, but those are questions that I’ve been asking myself lately..

 

[tara]

As far as I know there are no long-lived people that consumed a lot of milk.

According to wikipedia, as of 2007, the 5 countries with the estimated highest per capita consumption of milk are Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece. In recent times, depending on which list you loook at, all in the top 20 or 30 countries for life-expectancy, overall life-expectancy 80+.
List of countries by milk consumption per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or were you thinking paleolithic peoples?

 

[Amazoniac]

According to wikipedia, as of 2007, the 5 countries with the estimated highest per capita consumption of milk are Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece. In recent times, depending on which list you loook at, all in the top 20 or 30 countries for life-expectancy, overall life-expectancy 80+.
List of countries by milk consumption per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or were you thinking paleolithic peoples?

Neither. I was mentioning a comprehensive list of supercentenarians posted somewhere on the forum; most of them consumed milk, but apparently not as their main source of calories, and it seems that only in modest amounts.
If you can find a story of a long-lived person that lived mostly on milk I would be interested..
Burtlan will be the first, but we have to wait.

 

[PakPik]

Is it possible to interfere with normal levels of vit D with too much calcium from dairy? In the same way that low calcium intake leads to low vit D, wouldn't high calcium intake have the same effect? Or the excess is just easily excreted? I assume it can also interfere with the absorption of other minerals when it’s in excess, no?

C. Masterjohn touched upon that subject

"Would an excess of calcium, conversely, cause higher than normal 25(OH)D? Maybe, but not necessarily. While excess calcium would be expected to suppress the production of parathyroid hormone and calcitriol, thereby sparing 25(OH)D, it also elicits additional responses to suppress serum calcium: in response to high levels of calcium, our thyroid glands produce calcitonin, which not only blocks the loss of calcium from bone (1), but appears to stimulate the production of an enzyme that degrades both 25(OH)D and calcitriol to other products generally thought to be inactive (3). Excess calcium could, therefore, have conflicting effects on 25(OH)D, preventing its conversion to calcitriol but increasing its degradation through an alternative pathway, perhaps leading to no net change in 25(OH)D at all.

Overall, then, we would expect that a deficiency in calcium would cause low 25(OH)D, and that correcting the deficiency would normalize the 25(OH)D, but that beyond a certain threshold, increasing calcium intake might not increase 25(OH)D any further." (An Ancestral Perspective on Vitamin D Status, Part 2: Why Low 25(OH)D Could Indicate a Deficiency of Calcium Instead of Vitamin D - Weston A Price)

Why mainstream media is obsessed with increased IGF-1 when there are many other endocrine markers involved in aging?

About IGF, mins 7:00-16:00 in the KMUD Milk interview Milk - KMUD, 2011-08-19

Peat seems to think they're somewhat mislead and seems too think it's no big deal. It's effects also varies across species. About the claims that IGF is bad "There's not really enough science to know" and it is a "stimulator of healthy tissue growth", he says.

Is it possible to complete mitigate the (undesirable?) effects of ruminant milk on our hormones with nutrients? I’m one of those who are extremely affected by the whey portion of milk, giving me terrible acne, quite the opposite of the milk complexion.

"Milk is a rich natural source of tryptophan. Since tryptophan promotes formation of serotonin which stimulates release of prolactin, and prolactin activates the formation of sebum (oil) by the skin, large amounts of milk could promote a tendency toward acne, when there is a deficiency of b6, thyroid, progesterone, etc." [RP, "Nutrition for Women"]

 

[Amazoniac]

@PakPik Many, many thanks. Really helpful!

I wonder about the effects of fat-soluble vitamins on those markers that milk consumption tends to affect, including IGFs. I know Ray mentioned that before but I'm interested in understanding how they work, and if I can mitigate the effects with nutrients.
Regarding deficiencies, it's possible that low vit D levels is involved in my bad skin reaction, since it was low on a recent test.

 

[PakPik]

Regarding deficiencies, it's possible that low vit D levels is involved in my bad skin reaction, since it was low on a recent test.

Are you sure you have a deficiency? From the same Masterjohn article:
"Although commonly used as one, 25(OH)D is not a specific marker of vitamin D status. 25(OH)D is a compound that we make from vitamin D in our liver. Vitamin D will indeed dose-dependently increase 25(OH)D, but many other factors affect the rate at which 25(OH)D is synthesized, used, or degraded. These include variations in the genetics of vitamin D metabolism, intakes of other nutrients, crisis states such as inflammation, and disease states such as cancer.

Some of the factors that cause low 25(OH)D are bad and some of them are good. While there is likely some critical threshold below which low 25(OH)D almost certainly indicates a major problem, this is not necessarily the case with moderately low 25(OH)D."

 

[Amazoniac]

Are you sure you have a deficiency? From the same Masterjohn article:
"Although commonly used as one, 25(OH)D is not a specific marker of vitamin D status. 25(OH)D is a compound that we make from vitamin D in our liver. Vitamin D will indeed dose-dependently increase 25(OH)D, but many other factors affect the rate at which 25(OH)D is synthesized, used, or degraded. These include variations in the genetics of vitamin D metabolism, intakes of other nutrients, crisis states such as inflammation, and disease states such as cancer.

Some of the factors that cause low 25(OH)D are bad and some of them are good. While there is likely some critical threshold below which low 25(OH)D almost certainly indicates a major problem, this is not necessarily the case with moderately low 25(OH)D."

Pretty sure. Not only because of the test, but because I experimented a bit to make sure it is actually low, and it is.
It can be something related to it. As an example, since you're interested in antioxidants, inflammation and oxidative stress in general from that other post; the amount of acerolas that I have to eat in a day to start feeling satiated is much more than what people usually eat, up to 10 handfuls or so depending on their size. Which doesn't seem like a good sign to me.

By the way, I read that article a long time ago, but didn't remember it. Thank you again!

Edit: forgot to add that those skin issues with milk started on puberty and I grew on a very low fat diet, so the requirements might have increased without enough nutrients.

 

[PakPik]

the amount of acerolas that I have to eat in a day to start feeling satiated is much more than what people usually eat, up to 10 handfuls or so depending on their size. Which doesn't seem like a good sign to me.

Maybe your body has been running low on vit C or E? If you happened to have had a period of ingestion of pufa fats, especially the omega 3 fish/supps, you may have lowered your antioxidant reserves to quite bad levels. O-3 are known to quickly destroy vit E reserves, even in low doses. Vit C as you know is protective to vit E reserves. So, that's something I'd suspect!

Also worth considering if there's chronic low grade infl. going on.

@PakPik Many, many thanks. Really helpful!

I'm glad it's helpful! :)

 

[EIRE24]

Pretty sure. Not only because of the test, but because I experimented a bit to make sure it is actually low, and it is.
It can be something related to it. As an example, since you're interested in antioxidants, inflammation and oxidative stress in general from that other post; the amount of acerolas that I have to eat in a day to start feeling satiated is much more than what people usually eat, up to 10 handfuls or so depending on their size. Which doesn't seem like a good sign to me.

By the way, I read that article a long time ago, but didn't remember it. Thank you again!

Edit: forgot to add that those skin issues with milk started on puberty and I grew on a very low fat diet, so the requirements might have increased without enough nutrients.

You think a low fat diet could make acne worse.?

 

[Amazoniac]

You think a low fat diet could make acne worse.?

It's only with whey. So, substituting regular milk for a low-fat makes it worse, in fact it always worsens for me as the proportion of whey increases..

 

[EIRE24]

It's only with whey. So, substituting regular milk for a low-fat makes it worse, in fact it always worsens for me as the proportion of whey increases..

So whey makes your acne worse? When I was eating lots of whey and other things that I used to be able to tolerate my acne was fine. It has gotten a lot worse ever since adopting a peat style diet and it is starting to get very annoying and affecting my confidence and social life

 

[Amazoniac]

So whey makes your acne worse? When I was eating lots of whey and other things that I used to be able to tolerate my acne was fine. It has gotten a lot worse ever since adopting a peat style diet and it is starting to get very annoying and affecting my confidence and social life

I empathize with it because acne and stress were things that got me interested in nutrition, etc; just like Ray I guess.
I suppose you already tried to work on all of those common deficiencies that people with acne tend to have, but have you tried them in combination? Usually people try one at a time and drop them, but most of the time they work in synergy..
But lately, in my case it's just this.

 

[EIRE24]

I emphatize with it because acne and stress were things that got me interested in nutrition, etc; just like Ray I guess.
I suppose you already tried to work on all of those common deficiencies that people with acne tend to have, but have you tried them in combination? Usually people try one at a time and drop them, but most of the time they work in synergy..
But lately, in my case it's just this.

Yes I've tried lots of different things and the only actual thing that seems to work is hydrogen peroxide cream. I'm so unsure of what to do to correct things. I run a low fat diet and although my starch intake is not low I'm wondering if this isn't helping my situation. Is it gut related, vitamin deficiency or just a facial hygiene thing? I'm at a loss?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

But lately, in my case it's just this.

Awe, I miss Kurt....Dave looks so young! He did a show last summer at The Gorge, but had to sit due his broken leg. Man that dude can still rock even sitting down.

I went and saw the Meat Puppets in Seattle about a year and a half ago, they were awesome!!! Have you ever seen Cris Kirkwood's art? IT'S SO COOL.


Cris Kirkwood Art


Sorry Amazoniac, my rambling has nothing to do whatsoever with your plight.....

 

[gaze]

@Amazoniac Id be interested in knowing where you stand on these issues nowadays

 

[ursidae]

BUMP